Inheritance according to Qur?an

[Noon_waalqalami]

Sorry Noon waalqalami that I am such a pain in the ass but I really want to understand it and I still don't get your explanation.

OK

So three daughters are to be given 2/3 of the inheritance.

Yes in relation to males/sons e.g.

411 ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours
to the male similitude apportion the two (feminine dual)

To apply above need 2+ daughters and 1+ sons (i.e. cannot be applied to 1 daughter and 1+ sons).

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

Hence have all information to distribute any combination of daughter/s + son/s.

So parents get 1/3 of inheritance since there are offsprings(3 daughters)

Yes.

So if there is wife(and there are children) she should get 1/8 of inheritance.

Yes.

All those sums up to 9/8. More than one. So where is my misunderstanding? I cannot get your explanation no matter how many times i read that.

No.

1 - {1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each)} = 13/24 to child/children
(if mixed gender children then use 411 above to distribute 13/24)

13/24 * 2/3 = 13/36 three daughters
13/24 * 1/3 = 13/72 son/s

Clear?

[McKenna36]

Thanks for your reply. I got your explanation now. However I still have questions; why do you claim that 2/3(of 2+ daugthers inheritage) is ratio to male inheritage and not a 2/3 of whole inheritage?

so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

This part implies it's 2/3 of the whole and not a ratio to male. Very same word is used is used more like here

wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left

and for you half what left

And many times more.

[Noon_waalqalami]

Thanks for your reply. I got your explanation now. However I still have questions; why do you claim that 2/3(of 2+ daugthers inheritage) is ratio to male inheritage and not a 2/3 of whole inheritage?

This part implies it's 2/3 of the whole and not a ratio to male. Very same word is used is used more like here

Peace McKenna36, you are welcome and thank you for the questions perhaps it will help everyone.

It?s not 2+ daughters ? it's over two i.e. when 3+ daughters.

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

An Arabic-English Lexicon By Edward William Lane
thus one says, i. e. Ten is above nine; meaning ten exceeds nine.

It's a ratio of females to males not only females else no instructions for exactly two?

Read in context think of it as computer program daughters (2, 3+, and 1) + son/s.

411 yskumu/instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours

(Start case children)
lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

ELSE IF kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (daughters) fawqa/above two (f)
falahunna/so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

AND IF knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half
(End case children)

Likewise ratio mixed gender siblings 4176 not 1 and 2 sisters else where's 3+ sisters?
Likewise if sole sister does she get the 1/6 per verse 412 or the 1/2 per verse 4176?

Here is a summary again, read carefully the precise wording fixed/variable from whole.

411
To children
ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (f) so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) m/what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

To parents
wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one min'hum/of them dual the sixth mimm/of what left if be for said person waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/3 parents (fixed 1/6 each) = 2/3 child/children (if mixed gender children use ratio females to males above to distribute 2/3)

so if not that be for said person waladun/offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (i.e. if both parents are alive) so to mother said person the third

1 ? 1/3 mother (fixed) = 2/3 father (variable)

so if be for said person sibling so to mother said person the sixth

1 ? 1/6 mother (fixed) ? 1/6 sibling (fixed 412) = 2/3 father (variable)

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

fathers yours wa-abnukum/and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
To husband
and for you half m/what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/2 husband (fixed) = 1/2 parent/s (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother fixed 411 + 1/3 father (variable))

so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth mimm/of what left they

1 ? 1/4 husband (fixed) ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each fixed 411) = 5/12 child/children (if mixed use ratio 411)

min/from after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment

To wife
and for them the fourth mimm/of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/4 wife (fixed) = 3/4 parent/s (3/4*1/3 = 1/4 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father (variable)

so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight mimm/of what left you

1 ? 1/8 wife (fixed) ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each fixed 411) = 7/12 child/children (if mixed use ratio 411)

min/from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment

Kalala case (i.e. no spouse; single gender siblings
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or ukh'tun/sister so to each one of them dual the sixth

1 ? 1/6 sibling = 5/6 parent (variable; both parents not alive)
1 ? 1/6 sibling = 5/6 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 2/3 father (variable))

so if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third

1 ? 1/3 siblings = 2/3 parent (varialbe, both parents not alive)
1 ? 1/3 siblings = 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father (variable))

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

Kalala case mixed gender siblings
4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person waladun/offspring and for said person ukh'tun/sister so for her half m/what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings (1/3*1/2 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 brother/s)

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents {1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father} = 1/3 siblings (see above)

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) mimm/of what left

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings {1/3*2/3 = 2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/6 brother/s}

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father) = 1/3 siblings (see above)

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings {1/3*3/5 = 1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s}

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father) = 1/3 siblings (see above)

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

[Noon_waalqalami]

Peace, correction 411 ikh'watun (3+ plural; at least 1 male) changes distribution to mother (siblings and parents).

411
To children
ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (f) so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) m/what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

To parents
wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one min'hum/of them dual the sixth mimm/from what left if be for said person waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/6 parent = 5/6 child/children
1 ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each) = 2/3 child/children

If mixed gender children use ratio females to males above to distribute 2/3
1/3 two daughters (1/6 each) + 1/3 son/s
2/32/3 = 4/9 three daughters (4/27 each) + 2/9 son/s
2/31/2 = 1/3 daughter + 1/3 son/s

so if not that be for said person waladun/offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (i.e. if both parents are alive) so to mother said person the third

1/3 mother + 2/3 father

so if kna/be for said person ikh'watun/siblings (plural i.e. 3+ brothers (see 412), 2+ brothers & sister, 1+ brother/s & 2+ sisters (see 4176)) so to mother said person the sixth

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

fathers yours wa-abnukum/and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
To husband
and for you half m/what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring

1/2 husband + 1/2 parent/s (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother (411) + 1/3 father)

so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth mimm/from what left they

1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (411) + 7/12 child/children (if mixed gender use female to male ratio 411)
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 5/12 child/children

min/from after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment

To wife
and for them the fourth mimm/from what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring

1/4 wife + 3/4 parent/s (1/3 mother (411) + 5/12 father)

so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight mimm/from what left you

1 - 1/8 wife ? 1/6 parent = 17/24 child/children (if mixed gender children use ratio 411)
1 - 1/8 wife ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) = 13/24 child/children

min/from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment

Kalala case (i.e. no spouse; no child) single gender sibling/s
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or ukh'tun/sister so to each one of them dual the sixth

1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent/s (5/6*1/3 = 5/18 mother (411) + 5/9 father)

so if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third

1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent/s (2/31/3 = 2/9 mother (411) + 4/9 father)
1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent/s (2/31/3 = 2/9 mother (411) + 4/9 father)
1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

Kalala case mixed gender siblings
4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person waladun/offspring and for said person ukh'tun/sister so for her half m/what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)

1/3 (1/21/3 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 brother) + 2/3 parent/s (2/9 mother (411) + 4/9 father)
1/3 (1/21/3 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father)

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) mimm/from what left

1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 brother
1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

1/3 (2/3*1/3 = 2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/6 brother) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father)

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

1/3 siblings (1/3*3/5 = 1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father)

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

[McKenna36]

Thank you Noon waalqalami. I really liked your explanation because this "error" was what kept me in distance the most in the whole Quran. If I'll ever be in paradise that will be thanks to you. Although i still have some questions

1. what does " what left" stands for in the line for situation when there are above two girls. It's also used in other verses and there it stands for inheritage, not ratio.

2. What is exactly meaning of " " at the beginning of the same line mentioned before? Is it exactly "else if"? I couldn't find meaning in internet(I cannot really find good arabic dictionary online for studying Quran)

3. " lildhakari/to the male " Is singular isn't it? I wonder if your division is right. It seems to be not practical nor just that if you have a lot of brothers then you take less than your sister. I guess Quran commands to be more inherited by boys due to the fact that in actually all the societies man is main provider of family. Woman takes dowry and isn't obligated(as man is) to provide for partner. So what i think is that Quran might propose just ratio(with the example of one son) and we should follow it, no matter how many children there are. So it would look like that
   x-number of girls
   y-number of boys

x=<2y then each girl will take half of what a boy get
x>2y then all the girls will get 2/3 of what boys get

1 son
1,2 sisters -> each get half of what son got
3,4,5.... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what son got

2 sons
1,2,3,4 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
5,6,7,8...... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what sons got

3 sons
1,2,3,4,5,6 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
7,8,9,10,11,12...... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what sons got

etc.

OR(I don't know which one due to my language but both makes sense)

x-number of girls
y-number of boys

x=<2y then each girl will take half of what a boy get
x>2y then all the girls will get twice(2/3 for girls, 1/3 for boys) of what boys get

1 son
1,2 sisters -> each get half of what son got
3,4,5.... sisters -> they get twice of what son got

2 sons
1,2,3,4 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
5,6,7,8...... sisters -> they get twice of what sons got

3 sons
1,2,3,4,5,6 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
7,8,9,10,11,12...... sisters -> they get twice of what sons got

etc.

If " lildhakari/to the male" is singular then Quran if fact depicts only one situation; when there is one boy and depending on how many sisters he has Quran says how we should divide money. With this example of justly* division we can divide money to children in any situation(with formula given above). And the spirit, logic etc. of Quran's example is kept. Your proposition on the other hand looks kind of like an arbitrary formula and it's hard to find why it's look like that(instead of just giving every children same money if in some situations girl takes more and in some boys). And then again I don't know arabic so maybe my proposition is just wrong.

• Some might argue that giving more to boys than girls is unjust but as we see in situation with one son for God it is just indeed. And I kind of agree with that. In almost all societies during all history(including today's western Europe) man is the one financially resposible for family and and that's why he would get more. I guess that's just human nature and that's why God commands so. It's hard to marry for a poor man in poor societies but woman usually don't have such problems no matter of their wealth. So man's money would somehow crucial for the wealth of family and woman's money would be an "extra income". So by God's command in more than 60% of situations just decision is giving a boy twice as many as to girl. However sometimes among sibling girls might be overrepresented(more than twice the number of the boys) and then "minimum" inheritage is saved(because no difference if there are 3 sisters or 10) for the boy(money with which he is obligated to provide for family) and girls need to share what's left for them. If there would be 1 brother and 10 sisters, the man would get almost nothing even though he is financially responsible for his family, doesn't get any dowry etc.

I know it wouldn't be popular among feminists but there are things I don't like neither in Quran but God knows best.

[huruf]

That is what the traditional misuse of the Qur'an by muslims malists societies has sold as justification for heating females out of the right to inherit fully from their parents. But it is purely invention. Not all by far males are responsible financially, we know all perfectly well that when a woman works at home she is also being financially responsible, or not? What you are in fact saying is that officially the earnings have been all directed tomale hands, not that male hands hve earned them.

On he other hand, that financial responsibility is because men do not breed the children, so for something they do not do they should also be alloted extra inheritance. What a joke!

Not to speak either of those males that dissapear, or are toolazy or not lazy but out of job, or those women that are alone with children...

God isnot malist, but those who have twisted his words, have made of God a servant to them, something which is really shocking.

Salaam

[Noon_waalqalami]

Thank you Noon waalqalami. I really liked your explanation because this "error" was what kept me in distance the most in the whole Quran. If I'll ever be in paradise that will be thanks to you. Although i still have some questions

1. what does " what left" stands for in the line for situation when there are above two girls. It's also used in other verses and there it stands for inheritage, not ratio.

Peace McKenna36, you're welcome.

What left/remains whereas from whole to parents/husband/wife/kalala case single gender siblings follows...
min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

2. What is exactly meaning of " " at the beginning of the same line mentioned before? Is it exactly "else if"? I couldn't find meaning in internet(I cannot really find good arabic dictionary online for studying Quran)

70+ examples and in this context similar to "else if" statement in programming.

224 so if/in addition if/else if laam/not thou do ye of and never thou do ye of so fear ye of the fire the one and fuel its the humankind and the stone prepared for the skeptics

3. " lildhakari/to the male " Is singular isn't it? I wonder if your division is right.

it's applicable 411 lildhakari/to the male gender

Likewise Kalala case mixed gender siblings conditional IF given covers 1+ males and 3+ females.

4176 and if be they of ikh'watan rijlan wanisan/and womenfolk (3+)
falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)

one
3195, 4124, 1697, 4040, 4913 dhakarin/male ... wa-untha/and female

336 so when delivered her said she lord that I delivered her untha/female and the god of knowledge in what delivered and not is al-dhakaru/the male kal-unth/as the female and that I named her Maryam and that I seek refuge for her in you and progeny hers from the devil the accursed

5321 al-dhakaru/the male ... al-untha/the female
5345, 7539, 923 al-dhakara/the male ... wal-untha/and the female

exactly two
6143, 6144 aldhakarayni/the males two ... al-unthayayni/the females two (likewise 411, 4176)

three+
6139 lidhukurina/to males ours
26165 al-dhuk'rana/the males

4249 al-dhukura/the males ... inathan/females
4250 dhuk'ranan/males ... wa-inathan/and females

[hanslan]

Peace All

After going tru the tread I'm still confuse, before and after. The short lesson here is leave a good Will.

Unfortunately in Malaysia, the sectarians has overruled the Quran and says the faraid (the ones the Malaysian sectarians created not the Quran's) can overrule the Will. So many God wannabes! In my case, I pity my children and wife who are all females, given that my wealth is to be administered by my brothers???

Peace.

[huruf]

It is very wicked that the malist tyrany has snatched the religion to make it its instrument, because after that any who wants justice will be forced to attack religion, and inded they may feelinclined to do so,becuse if rligion comes insistently in the form of injustice it will be indeed very sincerely rejected.

Real believers should liberate religion from the clutches of worldly minded petty tyrans.

Salam

[Noon_waalqalami]

After going tru the tread I'm still confuse, before and after. The short lesson here is leave a good Will.

Unfortunately in Malaysia, the sectarians has overruled the Quran and says the faraid (the ones the Malaysian sectarians created not the Quran's) can overrule the Will. So many God wannabes! In my case, I pity my children and wife who are all females, given that my wealth is to be administered by my brothers???

Peace haslan, siblings only inherit kalala case -- no spouse/children.
Here's summary, not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg377882#msg377882

Yes best to draft a will 100% then nothing left; if partial will e.g. 50% distribute what left accordingly, etc.

2180 written/prescribed on you when comes any of you the death if left best of the instruction/will to the parents dual and the near relatives in the right/fairness duty of on the righteous

Perhaps read sentence at a time let me know which part is confusing or if you have any questions.

Real believers should liberate religion from the clutches of worldly minded petty tyrans.

Salaam huruf,

410 surely the ones are eating wealth the bereaved injustice of only are eating in interior body theirs fire of and shall burning blaze of

Yes dire consequences punishment in this life and next regardless of wealth; reminds of the poem?

?The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.? John Milton, Paradise Lost

[huruf]

Peace haslan, siblings only inherit kalala case -- no spouse/children.
Here's summary, not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg377882#msg377882

Yes best to draft a will 100% then nothing left; if partial will e.g. 50% distribute what left accordingly, etc.

2180 written/prescribed on you when comes any of you the death if left best of the instruction/will to the parents dual and the near relatives in the right/fairness duty of on the righteous

Perhaps read sentence at a time let me know which part is confusing or if you have any questions.

Salaam huruf,

410 surely the ones are eating wealth the bereaved injustice of only are eating in interior body theirs fire of and shall burning blaze of

Yes dire consequences punishment in this life and next regardless of wealth; reminds of the poem?

?The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.? John Milton, Paradise Lost

Indeed, when a pure person foregoes easy earnings through moral slackness to some he or she may look like an idiot and if the person changes his or her midn because of that she will open hell for herself, but if she keeps his or her purity she will keep heaven.

Salaam

[Noon_waalqalami]

Wanted to post this summary; not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread save folks time reading?

411
Children
instructs you the god in offspring yours to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (females)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each) + 1/2 son/s

so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three+ daughters + 1/3 son/s

and if knat/be she whidatan/one (female) so for her the half

1/2 daughter + 1/2 son/s

http//oi65.tinypic.com/fc5pqb.jpg

Parents
and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth from what left if be for said person offspring

1/6 parent + 5/6 child {If mixed gender children use ratios to distribute 5/6}
1/3 parents (1/6 each) + 2/3 child

so if not that be for said person offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (if both parents alive) so to mother said person the third

1/3 mother + 2/3 father

so if be for said person ikh'watun/siblings {i.e. 3+ brothers (use 412) or 2+ brothers & sister or 1+ brothers & 2+ sisters (use 4176)} so to mother said person the sixth

from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
fathers yours and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
Husband
and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them offspring

1/2 husband + 1/2 parent
1/2 husband + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/6 father

so if be for them offspring so for you the fourth from what left they

1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (411) + 7/12 child
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 5/12 child

from after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment

Wife
and for them the fourth from what left you if not that be for you offspring

1/4 wife + 3/4 parent
1/4 wife + 1/3 mother (411) + 5/12 father

so if be for you offspring so to them the eight from what left you

1/8 wife + 1/6 parent + 17/24 child
1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 13/24 child

from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment

Kalala single gender sibling/s
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth

1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent
1/6 brother/sister + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/2 father

so if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third

1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 three+ sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176
Kalala mixed gender siblings
seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person offspring and for said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (females) so to them dual the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left

2/3 two sisters + 1/3 brother/s

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each) + 2/5 brother/s
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each) + 1/3 brother/s

http//oi64.tinypic.com/1zvpr0g.jpg

1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father

1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 2/3 parent
1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

http//oi64.tinypic.com/2rc38mg.jpg

Peace,

[Recluse]

The Qur'an is not a book of civil law, administrative law or criminal law...

I hope one day Muslims will understand that these are completely useless debates nope

When I was a fundamentalist/literalist Qur'an only Muslim, I had tons of different tafsirs and Qur'an translations on my shelves (still have some) and was constantly trying to figure out what the magical "true meanings" of Qur'an verses were. This is a complete dead-end. These "efforts" will never solve any problems, they will never lead to anything positive in any society. They will not bring more justice or peace to Muslim countries (on the contrary). It has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to anyone anywhere. Also, without historical context there is no meaning.. Qur'an only Muslims are deceiving themselves without knowing to make the Qur'an more "palatable". It's a very innocent and naive attempt but faulty....

[Noon_waalqalami]

I hope one day Muslims will understand that these are completely useless debates nop

Peace ? was there something that needs further clarification or only posting due to frustration?
Inheritance verses require logical reasoning teach to look at all related if then else statements.

[Recluse]

Peace ? was there something that needs further clarification or only posting due to frustration?
Inheritance verses require logical reasoning teach to look at all related if then else statements.

Your efforts are futile, that's what I'm saying.

[Noon_waalqalami]

Your efforts are futile, that's what I'm saying.

No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile. I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.

[Armanaziz]

Brother Noon

We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.

However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.

Regards,
Arman

[Noon_waalqalami]

Brother Noon

We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.

Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.

However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.

Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
411 ... so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

[Armanaziz]

Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.

Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
411 ... so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

Thanks for clarifying your understanding.

Per my reading however " " translates as "If they are women more than two" rather than "If be women more than two". And the implication is vast.

Best regards,
Arman

[Recluse]

No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile. I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.

I hope one day you will realize that what I said is the truth, it also took me a long time to accept this.