Incest
-
I think a list of important topics to research before coming close to answering the OP would be
1)Establishing a consensus on the Malaika, through context in Quran and by revising root meaning from trusted Classical Arabic dictionaries and lexicons ( i.e.TajAlRoos, Lisan AlArab, Qamoos al Muheet )
The issue here is not necessarily their structure, we may never infer that in our lifetime, but the question of them being Agents, entities, with independent wills is what's at hand. No where in the Quran does it state the Angels don't have a will, it only explains that they are obedient. A lot of people jump the gun and assume that because someone does not deviate from obedience then they are robots bereft of any independence and will. I think that's a flawed argument in of itself.The Malaika in my understanding are not all one kind, like Allah says He gives some 2 wings, 3 wings, 4 wings according to their positions and duties. Some arrange the matter, drive clouds and push winds, others protect and guard, others record your deeds, others are in charge of taking your soul at the time of death, others support you in your establishment of salat, others bring down inspiration of revelation, others fight as hosts against disbelievers and aid the believing armies, others manifest as human beings, warners. I think people try to generalize and say they are either corporeal beings or universal laws and forces but neither of those ideas alone encompass all of the traits of the Malaika we witness in the Quran
-
Establishing the same as above a consensus on the Jinn. We must agree on whether they are agents, entities with independent wills as ourselves. If we find them to be independent beings an we know they had been created before man, then we can further investigate in the possibility of them having possibly dwelled on the earth or other above worlds before man.
-
Janna is another topic for which much thought also should be given in order to better understand what is proposed in the OP.
Where was Adam told to dwell with his mate? I think it would be important to agree on whether Janna is in this dunya (beneath the lowest heaven/roof) or in the heavens above.
Some can interpret Janna to be a garden, perhaps an elevated garden.
Allah told the Angels He would place man on the earth.
We are told that the righteous will inherit the earth.
Could Janna then not be an elevated garden here on earth, nor the side of the valley of the mount where Moses so the fire and was told to remove his shoes or the same place where Ibrahim was shown the location of the House or a blessed secluded garden between and atop mountain ranges?
This would not deprive the command of Allah of logic
238 We said, "Go down from it all (of you), and when, comes to you from Me Guidance, then whoever follows My Guidance, no fear (will be) on them and not they will grieve."
Glory be to Allah. If you interpret Janna as garden then the idea of Janna being on this earth, does not deprive this ayyat of sense either
397
Waqaloo alhamdu lillahi allathee sadaqana waAAdahu waawrathana al-arda natabawwao mina aljannati haythu nashao faniAAma ajru alAAamileena
And they will say, "All praise (be) to Allah, Who has fulfilled for us His promise and has made us inherit the earth, we may settle (in) Paradise wherever we wish. So excellent (is the) reward (of) the workers."- Another important topic of course is the heavens. We must understand the construct of the worlds to get a better grasp of Janna and the possibility of understanding where Adam dwelt or if any agent dwelled on this earth before man (excluding the Malaika who arrange the matters). Allah tells us there are seven heavens one above the other. Stacked up on top of each other. Allah describes our lowest heaven as a roof. The roof of our world. If there are seven heavens/roofs over us, then there are six more worlds above us. This is mathematical unless you take seven to mean many which I doubt is the correct interpretation. Allah also tells us that He has created many of the likes of the earth
6512
Allah (is) He Who created seven heavens and of the earth, (the) like of them. Descends the command between them that you may know that Allah (is) on every thing All-Powerful. And that, Allah indeed, encompasses all things (in) knowledge.We can see from the above ayaah that the heavens are not just layers of clouds but contain earth like foundations. There are to the best of my current understanding at the least, six worlds above us, with likeness of the earth. Taking this understanding we may infer that perhaps Adam was still in a garden but somewhere in the higher worlds or heavens.
This would do away with Janna being on earth theory however require some more investigating on what the command of getting down entails if they are in the heavens.Yes so, pretty much if we study these topics in humility, through prayer and asking for God to increase us in knowledge we would definitely be closer to understanding God willing.
Salaam
-
-
janna? is this in your opinion a return to the garden of eden spoken of in the book of genesis?
sorry to question just one person I'm a muslim and I'm just now asking questions about that.I wouldn't confidently compare anything with Genesis or the Bible in general.
Remember Genesis says God rested on the 7th day, while the Quran clearly states He established Himself on the Throne after the sixth moment/day/period. Allah tells us in the Quran that He does not slumber nor sleep.So will you exchange the bad for the good?
I take it to mean the same Garden where Adam was told to dwell in with his wife/mate/companion for a time after Iblis refused to submit to him.
The same place where they were told to get down from.I do not although know whether this place was in an abode near Allah or the blessed haraman/haven/Sanctuary that Allah has established for man on this earth.
Remember when the hypocrites said they were afraid to follow the believers because they would be swept from the land?
2857
And they say, "If we follow the guidance with you, we would be swept from our land." Have not We established for them a sanctuary secure, are brought to it fruits (of) all things, a provision from Us? But most of them (do) not know.2967
Do not they see that We have made a Sanctuary secure while are being taken away the people around them? Then do in the falsehood they believe and in (the) Favor (of) Allah they disbelieve?What is this Sanctuary from which all are safe from being taken away?
It must be here on earth.
Is it the same place Ibrahim and his son raised the foundations of the House and purified and cleaned?
Is it near the same place Moses had to take his sandals off because he was in a blessed spot?
Why is this valley sacred?
Is it near this inviolable sanctuary/haven? Or is it because the sign of the burning bush was a blessing?
Allah in fact says blessed is he who is at the fire. Is our Lord referring to Moses?1437
Our Lord! Indeed, I have settled (some) of my offsprings in a valley not with cultivation near Your Sacred House, our Lord! That they may establish the prayers. So make hearts of the men incline towards them, and provide them with the fruits so that they may be grateful.2012
Indeed, I Am your Lord, so remove your shoes. Indeed, you (are) in the valley the sacred (of) Tuwa.2830
But when he came (to) it, he was called from (the) side (of) the valley - the right in the place even, blessed, from the tree that, "O Musa! Indeed, I Am Allah, (the) Lord (of) the worlds.7916
When called him his Lord in the valley the sacred (of),We can gather that there is sacred valley and perhaps is it near a Sacred House and there is a Sanctuary established.
This may have nothing to do with Janna actually.
Because Paradise will be brought near see the Ayaahs below
5031
Waozlifati aljannatu lilmuttaqeena ghayra baAAeedin
And will be brought near the Paradise to the righteous, not far.8113
Wa-itha aljannatu ozlifat
And when Paradise is brought near,Notice how Janna is used here.
I still have a lot of studying to do but these are thoughts I had.If I had to conclude with an hypothesis, I would hypothesize Janna is above the regions of this world.
-
I doubt Rabb rises on a throne too.
-
True, but I am still confused. I checked some other verses where the mate is tagged as wife. Must look into it a little more.
Yes look at it, but I m not suprised at all, I am still dumbfounded before the amount of malecentric and other switching that has been done on the text of the Qur'an. It is really labourious to go through picking one by one all the jobs of "arrangements" or "rearrangements" of interpretrations and selecting of meanings that have been done on the Qur'an. I am still amazed that in spite of it all there has been still something left that is worth. THAT for me, is a real, ashtounding miracle. I would ever have suspected how far and how deep this rearranging job has gone, although I guess one should never be shocked. Human nature is really industrious when it comes to getting his or her fancies rather than what is intended by the good giver.
Salaam
-
The difference it makes is that it says mate and it does not say wife.
The qur'an knows perfectly well how to say a wife and how to say a mate and every time it speaks of adam never says the word wife or husband but always, every single time, it says the word mate. So we do not know that adam was a male or a female but that it was the human being of that time and that human being existed with a mate, as couple, as two sexes.
Salaam
-
Incest is prohibited due to biology. Clearly we do not know how humans are developed despite having the adam and eve story and whether at that moment incest is a primary concern in biology. Logically if we come from a single pool (scientific evidence DNA shows common ancestors), at the onset, the single pool would be concentrated thus incest or biological concerns are of minimum concern. But over time, the expansion of the pool through thousand of years would cause it to dilute thus the biological concerns have become larger considerations.
Example you've got 1 liter of honey and you add a spoonfool of salt. You mixed them up, but since its difficult to dissolved salt into honey evenly the presence of salt may not be noticeable. Now you break the honey to 100 parts. Evidently there will be some parts (of that 100) that will taste slightly saltier. So if incest is similar to this example, then the likelihood of getting salty honey is higher in the parts that are salty already. So to avoid that, you need to mix the salty honey to most unsalty honey to even it out.
You can observe in mixed race marriages, the offspring will look after the older gene in the couple, the offspring of causasian mixed with chinese will be more chinese than caucasian. But if the caucasian belong to an older/earlier gene, then the opposite will happen. The dominant gene is always the older gene in the split because it takes hold of the DNA at an earlier sequence. Younger gene of humans/races (the amount of dilution is greatest) may present surprises to the parents with offspring showing ancestral dominance - eg both parent are brown, offspring is fair.
The rule on incest is purely biological to avoid bad genes i.e salty honey!
Honey, you taste salty! Peace.
-
Something came to my head just now. If there were already beings before civilized Adam, then incest couldn't have taken place. Even the second one known as mate or wife would not have mattered. If we take it as the civilized female...
Their children already had mates arranged from other beings.
I found another interesting verse relevant to "beings".
Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every moving creature, and directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason. 2164
-
Incest is possible, but it increases the risk of birth defects even if you probably can make a whole family based on incest without complications.
-
Salamun Alaikum.
The question of incest only arises if we take Adam as an individual human rather than the whole humanity. The story of our ancestors committing incest in order to re-produce is an ancient tale common to Christianity and Islam and probably other world religions as well. But as we know from The Qur'an the law or sunnatullah never changed so therefore the theory of incest is invalid, unless of course you believe that Allah amends his own laws? If we reflect on a Qur'an verse re Adam and his mate as individual beings, then why would Allah use a plural to order them to go down/to descent if it was only Adam and his mate? As Qur'an 338 tells us " We said "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve".
Peace
almarh0m
-
Salamun Alaikum.
The question of incest only arises if we take Adam as an individual human rather than the whole humanity. The story of our ancestors committing incest in order to re-produce is an ancient tale common to Christianity and Islam and probably other world religions as well. But as we know from The Qur'an the law or sunnatullah never changed so therefore the theory of incest is invalid, unless of course you believe that Allah amends his own laws? If we reflect on a Qur'an verse re Adam and his mate as individual beings, then why would Allah use a plural to order them to go down/to descent if it was only Adam and his mate? As Qur'an 338 tells us " We said "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve".
Peace
almarh0m
Thaat seems quite right to me.
Salaam
-
The mainstream understanding of the story of Adam and his wife is that they had children and their children then married each other and that is how humanity began.
This is not the case.
Adam and Eve begat Cain and Able. Cain slew Able. He found a wife beyond Eden. No incest was implied. -
This is not the case.
Adam and Eve begat Cain and Able. Cain slew Able. He found a wife beyond Eden. No incest was implied.I have not heard of this story before. So where exactly did this wife come from? Did she pop out of nowhere? Was she human?
-
Okay, something new came in my head. Normally, when God says he made man from earth the matrix conditions us to see it like this
http//cache3.asset-cache.net/xt/112189035.jpg?v=1&g=fs1%7C0%7CUIG%7C89%7C035&s=1The verse that makes us think like that
when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I am going to create a human being from clay.So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My soul, then fall down to him in prostration 3871-72Now when we go deeper we get the following verses
Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.Then He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained.327-8
And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a growth.7117
The entire clay thing when connected to evolution makes sense.
But since nowhere in Quran, Allah says Adam was the first human, we need not worry about the incest. That's how I see it now.