Kafirs
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I think the meaning goes rather in the sense of eliberately hiding the truth, when you know is the truth. And you hide the truth under lies, inventing, lying, betraying. It would be kafirun with respect to truth, not kafirun with respect to treasure or to somethig that if made known might damage somebody, but it would be raather the opposite like buryingthe truth if it could benefit somebody. At any rate always deliberate and knowingly. There are many words used in the Qur'an to mean "cover" or conceal or hide, but each one has its own meaning. En this kafara I think it isin the sense I have written. It would be something like misdirecting, misrepresenting. Of course it is evil sice it is done on purpose and knowingly.
Hi,
But there are kafirs who kill and they think that they are doing good. In my opinion ISIS are kafirs, but I believe some/most of them think what they do is the right thing.
And that is why interpreting the kafir as somebody with a different religion is nonsense.
On the other hand, I have come to doubt the the Qur'n speaks about "other religion", the Qur'an rather tends to speak of "those who do this or do that , or behve in such way or other", not by labels.
Theh whole of Qur'an has undergone an overhaul to fit a legalistic structure ouside of it.
Salaam
Yes totally agreed with this. Quran does not mention religions for the simply fact that there are more religions in the world then words in the quran.
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There is one group in the quran where no single verse speaks good about them. This group is known as "KAFIRS".
I took a look at some translations and this is what I found how translators/interpretators translate/interpret this word.- Unbelievers
- Disbelievers
- Deniers of the truth
- Infidels
- Faithless ones
- Rejecters of Faith
- Rejecters
That is because the hijackers of Quran invented this interpretation of Kuffar. Kuffar are protrayed as pests in Quran. They are demonized to the point where they are seen as subhumans. It pushes a sectarian paradigm. "Us" and "them". Believers=good and infidels(kuffar)=bad and not to mention the verses commanding Muslims to go hunt down kuffar, kill them wherever you find them and kill them until they perform the gymnastic sessions known as salat. I believe the Quranic text conveys something much different. It should teach self-control and to feel empathetic towards fellow humans. It should teach you how to kill your ego and not feel better than fellow humans. It should teach you to know yourself and your enemy Satan(the bodily). In other words, self-control and self-awareness.
Notice how Islam doesn't even teach you self-control? Just blame the invisible guy made of fire whenever you lose control of your body.Quran's interpretation should teach you that sectarians are victims and not subhumans pests. It should also teach you to turn the other cheek, to get rid of the urge for revenge. In other words, a state of egolessness. It is easier said than done but it is extremely rewarding. It takes time to reach this state. You become the controller your body. You no longer are a slave to your emotions and chemicals. You no longer have a sectarian mindset. You are self-aware and fearless of worldly threats. This is true peace and is what gets you to "heaven". There are no kuffar but rather victims to the bodily automation. Help yourself and help them.
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Rather, the deniers are in counterstatement
8519Ok I understand now how you came to your definition, but this vers does not define the word kafara it just gives a attribute of those who kafaru.
If you wert to deny the Truth for a "better cause" ? Like what e.g. ?!
A murderer comes to my house and wants to kill me. Before killing me he ask me if there is someone else in my home. I will lie to him if there is really someone in my house.
I denied the truth in hope to save a life.
If you steel from me and I saw it, and I can prove it in a court the I will deny that you stole something from me if it will cost you your hand.
I denied the truth for a better cause.Ignorance of Law harms !
ALLH taught us to be heeful of His Absoluteness ~ 241; 328,30; &c.
One's Denial (ر works against one's own self.
Cognitive dissonance, for once.
I think I read from your posts that you believe in a flat earth. Well, I believe the earth is spherical.
So, at least 1 of us is wrong. Both of us are convinced that our view is the truth.
So this means thus according to your definition that at least 1 of us is a kafir. -
Hi,
But there are kafirs who kill and they think that they are doing good. In my opinion ISIS are kafirs, but I believe some/most of them think what they do is the right thing.
Then they would not be kaffirs, they would be something else not good but not kaffirs.
Even so I do not agree that they believe they are doing good. May be before they get into deep waters they may feel like heroes because they are young and inmature, but once they are committing real crimes, either they are caught and can do nothing about it save risk their life if they do not go along with it. That if they are not drugged. Besides I think most of them if not all are mercenaries. So they get their wages, crimes included or not. Much like Blackwater, although they changed their name. Now they are called something else.
Salaam
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That is because the hijackers of Quran invented this interpretation of Kuffar. Kuffar are protrayed as pests in Quran. They are demonized to the point where they are seen as subhumans. It pushes a sectarian paradigm. "Us" and "them". Believers=good and infidels(kuffar)=bad and not to mention the verses commanding Muslims to go hunt down kuffar, kill them wherever you find them and kill them until they perform the gymnastic sessions known as salat. I believe the Quranic text conveys something much different. It should teach self-control and to feel empathetic towards fellow humans. It should teach you how to kill your ego and not feel better than fellow humans. It should teach you to know yourself and your enemy Satan(the bodily). In other words, self-control and self-awareness.
Notice how Islam doesn't even teach you self-control? Just blame the invisible guy made of fire whenever you lose control of your body.Quran's interpretation should teach you that sectarians are victims and not subhumans pests. It should also teach you to turn the other cheek, to get rid of the urge for revenge. In other words, a state of egolessness. It is easier said than done but it is extremely rewarding. It takes time to reach this state. You become the controller your body. You no longer are a slave to your emotions and chemicals. You no longer have a sectarian mindset. You are self-aware and fearless of worldly threats. This is true peace and is what gets you to "heaven". There are no kuffar but rather victims to the bodily automation. Help yourself and help them.
Hi,
I think in the quran "turn the other cheek" is expressed with "patience". Allah loves those who have patience.
BUT this is when it comes to our selves. If we see evil done to others then it's our duty to act in the best way and not turn away.
Those who fight evil internal and external are imo the best people. -
Salaamun,
Refuse + proud = Kafir
Salaamun bro,
Why did you make the second WA a "=" ?
Kuffaar - Kaaf Fa Fa Ra -
Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children - like the example of a rain whose plant growth pleases the farmers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion.
Farmer or one who covers or one who invest to grow = Kuffaar
thanks for the verse have to take a closer look at it.
This is absolutely my personal understanding.
I absolutely never doubt about that ;D
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanMay Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
Bender -
Hi,
I think in the quran "turn the other cheek" is expressed with "patience". Allah loves those who have patience.
BUT this is when it comes to our selves. If we see evil done to others then it's our duty to act in the best way and not turn away.
Those who fight evil internal and external are imo the best people.Yes, but you do not attempt to extinguish fire with fire. People mix up self-defense with "fighting evil". If a burglar breaks into your house, you have every right to disable the burglar. Quran does not need to explain this. It is common sense. For "fighting evil", this is an excuse that is used to oppress others in the name of "preventing fitnah". I have heard this excuse being used far too many times by religion to take away people's rights and oppress people. To stop the spread of kufurism, in other words, anything that disagrees with their dogmatic belief system. I guess people need to be less vague whenever they claim to want to fight evil. You need to outline exactly what you consider to be evil, not use it as a context to spread oppression like religion has done.
I am considered a threat by my family because I do not adhere to their dogmatic belief system. I get daily threats of evictions and name calling by extended family. They use the same excuse. To fight evil and fitnah. I am forced to perform the Islamic rituals in-front of them everyday. I am given daily lectures on how bad I am for not performing the 5 daily gymnastic sessions known as salat. The reason why I haven't been evicted and become homeless yet is because I haven't made an explicit statement of leaving this cult. This abuse is just because I became less religious and asked questions that made them speechless. Cognitive dissonance. The only way to keep the falsehood going is by threatening and abusing people. They are driven by emotions. For now, I have to pretend until I can rent out my own place.
Do see now why "fighting evil" is so dangerous? The only evil is a dogmatic belief system and the emotions that drive it. -
Yes, but you do not attempt to extinguish fire with fire. People mix up self-defense with "fighting evil". If a burglar breaks into your house, you have every right to disable the burglar. Quran does not need to explain this. It is common sense. For "fighting evil", this is an excuse that is used to oppress others in the name of "preventing fitnah". I have heard this excuse being used far too many times by religion to take away people's rights and oppress people. To stop the spread of kufurism, in other words, anything that disagrees with their dogmatic belief system. I guess people need to be less vague whenever they claim to want to fight evil. You need to outline exactly what you consider to be evil, not use it as a context to spread oppression like religion has done.
I am considered a threat by my family because I do not adhere to their dogmatic belief system. I get daily threats of evictions and name calling by extended family. They use the same excuse. To fight evil and fitnah. I am forced to perform the Islamic rituals in-front of them everyday. I am given daily lectures on how bad I am for not performing the 5 daily gymnastic sessions known as salat. The reason why I haven't been evicted and become homeless yet is because I haven't made an explicit statement of leaving this cult. This abuse is just because I became less religious and asked questions that made them speechless. Cognitive dissonance. The only way to keep the falsehood going is by threatening and abusing people. They are driven by emotions. For now, I have to pretend until I can rent out my own place.
Do see now why "fighting evil" is so dangerous? The only evil is a dogmatic belief system and the emotions that drive it.Why not show them the truth?...like how what they believe has come from frauds known as traditionalists? PM me if you need help/resources.
As for the word believer, I don't think it is just about believing in God. I have been thinking about the term lately. I wonder whether it has link to doing good also. In that sense, kafir would be someone who commits evil. No evidence from Quran on my behalf though.
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Why not show them the truth?...like how what they believe has come from frauds known as traditionalists? PM me if you need help/resources.
That's what got me into trouble. If you attempt to pull down their imaginary world of tales and falsehood, they react with their emotions. They will do anything, literally anything to defend the world they live in. They turned from one of the nicest people I knew to aggressive and rude individuals. That is what happens when you refuse to play along their rules. My mother won't even let me speak to my siblings and it breaks my heart to see them in that state. I am bad influence to them. "I won't let an infidel come near my children" they said. She is convinced that she is doing something good and fighting evil and fitnah. She wanted me to be good. A practicing Muslim. Her definition of good is subjective though. She compares me to cousins everyday. How they wear Islamic clothing, grow a beard wear a skull cap, wear jack up trousers and thobe, rush to prayer every Friday, spend time at the mosque, fast, perform the five daily rituals, parrot(dhikr) some words 33 times after each ritual prayer and sing the Quran.
This religion has its own defense mechanism and is by far the most dangerous of all. It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head. For now I have to tone down, be patient and pretend until I can find my way out. It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Back to topic. I think it is very dangerous for someone to claim to fight evil and fitnah no matter what your belief is. You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will. You cannot force a belief system on them neither can you force your version of "good" on them, because good is subjective and evil is the opposite of good.
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Peace Invalid777
Fight your corner with patience, wisdom and Qoran. Beat them by what is best.
Learning Qoran better than they do is the key.If you must pretend to them, then do not pretend to GOD. HE knows your innermost thoughts. Seek HIS help . Trust in HIM , even more now than you ever did before.
If you go to prayer on Friday to pretend for your family , then do that prayer and dedicate it to GOD Alone.HE will hear you.
If they do Dhikr to entities , and you pretend with them, then do it to GOD Alone, HE will hear you.
Eventually, truth will prevail. Somehow GOD will rescue you.
Are you really loyal to GOD Alone? Then trust HIM.
May GOD bless you and save you.
Peace., -
Peace Good logic
Thanks for the advice.
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sing the Quran
Singing Quran is haraam, it has to be rhythmic recital (imitating sectarian ulema).
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That's what got me into trouble. If you attempt to pull down their imaginary world of tales and falsehood, they react with their emotions. They will do anything, literally anything to defend the world they live in. They turned from one of the nicest people I knew to aggressive and rude individuals. That is what happens when you refuse to play along their rules. My mother won't even let me speak to my siblings and it breaks my heart to see them in that state. I am bad influence to them. "I won't let an infidel come near my children" they said. She is convinced that she is doing something good and fighting evil and fitnah. She wanted me to be good. A practicing Muslim. Her definition of good is subjective though. She compares me to cousins everyday. How they wear Islamic clothing, grow a beard wear a skull cap, wear jack up trousers and thobe, rush to prayer every Friday, spend time at the mosque, fast, perform the five daily rituals, parrot(dhikr) some words 33 times after each ritual prayer and sing the Quran.
This religion has its own defense mechanism and is by far the most dangerous of all. It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head. For now I have to tone down, be patient and pretend until I can find my way out. It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Back to topic. I think it is very dangerous for someone to claim to fight evil and fitnah no matter what your belief is. You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will. You cannot force a belief system on them neither can you force your version of "good" on them, because good is subjective and evil is the opposite of good.
Hmm, I came across that. In that sense, you have to change your way. I mean proof won't do a thing to them. You have to show that you apply Quran in your daily life. Don't pretend though. Just do what the verses say. Your lifestyle will be an example of Quran being the only guidance. Do it the way GL said
Fight your corner with patience, wisdom and Qoran. Beat them by what is best.
Don't challenge them in anything.
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It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head.
It's fear. Deep but hidden fear does this to oneself.
It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Minorities increase in their characteristics in a majority environment. It's all about self preservation. Again, fear.... fear of extinction.
You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will.
To comfortably, with tolerance, allow others to be what they are takes a certain amount of peace within.
Growing peace is what happens what we do things right, as per the system of the Rabb.
All the best
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That's what got me into trouble. If you attempt to pull down their imaginary world of tales and falsehood, they react with their emotions. They will do anything, literally anything to defend the world they live in. They turned from one of the nicest people I knew to aggressive and rude individuals.
Such behaviour of the religious is observable since ancient times ..
| https//d.gr-assets.com/authors/1391265856p2/6397759.jpg
| ?If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.?- Muhammad Ibn Zakaria Al Razi, 9th century Ulema (the word "Scientist" wasn't invented yet back then)
That is what happens when you refuse to play along their rules. My mother won't even let me speak to my siblings and it breaks my heart to see them in that state. I am bad influence to them. "I won't let an infidel come near my children" they said. She is convinced that she is doing something good and fighting evil and fitnah. She wanted me to be good. A practicing Muslim. Her definition of good is subjective though. She compares me to cousins everyday. How they wear Islamic clothing, grow a beard wear a skull cap, wear jack up trousers and thobe, rush to prayer every Friday, spend time at the mosque, fast, perform the five daily rituals, parrot(dhikr) some words 33 times after each ritual prayer and sing the Quran.
This religion has its own defense mechanism and is by far the most dangerous of all. It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head. For now I have to tone down, be patient and pretend until I can find my way out. It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Back to topic. I think it is very dangerous for someone to claim to fight evil and fitnah no matter what your belief is. You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will. You cannot force a belief system on them neither can you force your version of "good" on them, because good is subjective and evil is the opposite of good.
Detecting the presence of "Evil" the "True Evil" is very easy..
Detect the presence of "PRIDE" and "ARROGANCE" then Evil usually can be found lurking nearby.My sympathy to your situation with your family...
It is a delicate situation.. your mother has her own ego (just like any other mom in the world)
Thus it's very hard to make her listen to you or accept your opinion / belief as thus I wouldn't advice to go down that route.The inventor of religion (in this case the religion of Islam) is quite smart by imposing dogma to guard the sheep to always stay within the flock.
Ranging from death penalty for those who dare to leave the religion of Islam up to putting the blame / guilt on the parent / family / tribe.
Your mom is just a victim of such dogma...This is among the reason why I personally choose to become "Multi Religion" instead of "Irreligion".
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. Three things can not be hidden for long the Moon, the Sun and the Truth.?
-- Sidhharta Gautama -
Then they would not be kaffirs, they would be something else not good but not kaffirs.
hi,
I can not think of anything except maybe shayateen.
But I think every shaytaan is a kafir but not every kafir is a shaytaan.Even so I do not agree that they believe they are doing good. May be before they get into deep waters they may feel like heroes because they are young and inmature, but once they are committing real crimes, either they are caught and can do nothing about it save risk their life if they do not go along with it. That if they are not drugged. Besides I think most of them if not all are mercenaries. So they get their wages, crimes included or not. Much like Blackwater, although they changed their name. Now they are called something else.
Salaam
I really don't know, they have different backgrounds and different reasons/agendas. Very complicated
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Ok I understand now how you came to your definition, but this vers does not define the word kafara it just gives a attribute of those who kafaru.
The qurnic vb. - the direct antonym of - denoting "denial/negation/repudiation" can be easily deduced from context (as a whole, not just 8519). Ergo. contextually consistent.
A murderer comes to my house and wants to kill me. Before killing me he ask me if there is someone else in my home. I will lie to him if there is really someone in my house.
I denied the truth in hope to save a life. If you steel from me and I saw it, and I can prove it in a court the I will deny that you stole something from me if it will cost you your hand.
I denied the truth for a better cause.These imaginary scenarios are by no means valid, for they are not cases of KFR/denial (of ALLH andor His Signs)! You're mistakenly shifting the discussion from KFR (Denial of ALLH andor His Signs) to whether the act of kzb/lying can be morally justified (when facing danger), a different topic altogether !
I think I read from your posts that you believe in a flat earth. Well, I believe the earth is spherical. So, at least 1 of us is wrong. Both of us are convinced that our view is the truth.
So this means thus according to your definition that at least 1 of us is a kafir.True, until recently (more or less a year ago), i used to be a copernican Heliocentrist like yourself (and the rest/majority). I came to renounce the inherited, bubble of helios-centrism since both sense experience and Scripture evince a flat stationary Earth, instead of a spinning/rotating "ostrich-egg" ! Earth (with a capital E) is perfectly Flat, in my weltanschauung/dyn.
Get out of Babylon.
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The quranic vb. denoting "denial/negation/repudiation" can be easily deduced from context (as a whole, not just 8519). Ergo. contextually consistent.
Salaam,
If in kfr is a negation then there should be also a form of the word without this negation.
These imaginary scenarios are invalid examples, for they are not cases of KFR/denial (of ALLH and His Signs) !!! You're mistakenly shifting the discussion from KFR (Denial of ALLH andor His Signs) to whether the act of kzb/lying can be morally justified (when facing danger), a different topic altogether !
I thought you took "denying the truth" as the defintion for kfr that's why I gave these examples.
Can you give an example of one who is denying the truth?True, until recently (more or less a year ago), i used to be a Copernican Heliocentrist like yourself (and the rest/majority). I came to disawn the bubble of helios-centrism since both sense experience and Scripture evince a flat stationary Earth, instead of a spinning, rotating "ostrish-egg" !
GREEN There are a lot of people who believe in a sperical earth and a geocentric model...
Anyway let's supose you are right with this flat earth and I refuse to believe it despite your proofs, because of my own reasons, am I then a kafir according to you or kathab or maybe something else?
I want to understand what you mean with "denying the truth".Get out of Babylon.
ok
Salaam,
Bender
