Kafirs
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Yes, but you do not attempt to extinguish fire with fire. People mix up self-defense with "fighting evil". If a burglar breaks into your house, you have every right to disable the burglar. Quran does not need to explain this. It is common sense. For "fighting evil", this is an excuse that is used to oppress others in the name of "preventing fitnah". I have heard this excuse being used far too many times by religion to take away people's rights and oppress people. To stop the spread of kufurism, in other words, anything that disagrees with their dogmatic belief system. I guess people need to be less vague whenever they claim to want to fight evil. You need to outline exactly what you consider to be evil, not use it as a context to spread oppression like religion has done.
I am considered a threat by my family because I do not adhere to their dogmatic belief system. I get daily threats of evictions and name calling by extended family. They use the same excuse. To fight evil and fitnah. I am forced to perform the Islamic rituals in-front of them everyday. I am given daily lectures on how bad I am for not performing the 5 daily gymnastic sessions known as salat. The reason why I haven't been evicted and become homeless yet is because I haven't made an explicit statement of leaving this cult. This abuse is just because I became less religious and asked questions that made them speechless. Cognitive dissonance. The only way to keep the falsehood going is by threatening and abusing people. They are driven by emotions. For now, I have to pretend until I can rent out my own place.
Do see now why "fighting evil" is so dangerous? The only evil is a dogmatic belief system and the emotions that drive it.Why not show them the truth?...like how what they believe has come from frauds known as traditionalists? PM me if you need help/resources.
As for the word believer, I don't think it is just about believing in God. I have been thinking about the term lately. I wonder whether it has link to doing good also. In that sense, kafir would be someone who commits evil. No evidence from Quran on my behalf though.
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Why not show them the truth?...like how what they believe has come from frauds known as traditionalists? PM me if you need help/resources.
That's what got me into trouble. If you attempt to pull down their imaginary world of tales and falsehood, they react with their emotions. They will do anything, literally anything to defend the world they live in. They turned from one of the nicest people I knew to aggressive and rude individuals. That is what happens when you refuse to play along their rules. My mother won't even let me speak to my siblings and it breaks my heart to see them in that state. I am bad influence to them. "I won't let an infidel come near my children" they said. She is convinced that she is doing something good and fighting evil and fitnah. She wanted me to be good. A practicing Muslim. Her definition of good is subjective though. She compares me to cousins everyday. How they wear Islamic clothing, grow a beard wear a skull cap, wear jack up trousers and thobe, rush to prayer every Friday, spend time at the mosque, fast, perform the five daily rituals, parrot(dhikr) some words 33 times after each ritual prayer and sing the Quran.
This religion has its own defense mechanism and is by far the most dangerous of all. It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head. For now I have to tone down, be patient and pretend until I can find my way out. It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Back to topic. I think it is very dangerous for someone to claim to fight evil and fitnah no matter what your belief is. You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will. You cannot force a belief system on them neither can you force your version of "good" on them, because good is subjective and evil is the opposite of good.
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Peace Invalid777
Fight your corner with patience, wisdom and Qoran. Beat them by what is best.
Learning Qoran better than they do is the key.If you must pretend to them, then do not pretend to GOD. HE knows your innermost thoughts. Seek HIS help . Trust in HIM , even more now than you ever did before.
If you go to prayer on Friday to pretend for your family , then do that prayer and dedicate it to GOD Alone.HE will hear you.
If they do Dhikr to entities , and you pretend with them, then do it to GOD Alone, HE will hear you.
Eventually, truth will prevail. Somehow GOD will rescue you.
Are you really loyal to GOD Alone? Then trust HIM.
May GOD bless you and save you.
Peace., -
Peace Good logic
Thanks for the advice.
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sing the Quran
Singing Quran is haraam, it has to be rhythmic recital (imitating sectarian ulema).
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That's what got me into trouble. If you attempt to pull down their imaginary world of tales and falsehood, they react with their emotions. They will do anything, literally anything to defend the world they live in. They turned from one of the nicest people I knew to aggressive and rude individuals. That is what happens when you refuse to play along their rules. My mother won't even let me speak to my siblings and it breaks my heart to see them in that state. I am bad influence to them. "I won't let an infidel come near my children" they said. She is convinced that she is doing something good and fighting evil and fitnah. She wanted me to be good. A practicing Muslim. Her definition of good is subjective though. She compares me to cousins everyday. How they wear Islamic clothing, grow a beard wear a skull cap, wear jack up trousers and thobe, rush to prayer every Friday, spend time at the mosque, fast, perform the five daily rituals, parrot(dhikr) some words 33 times after each ritual prayer and sing the Quran.
This religion has its own defense mechanism and is by far the most dangerous of all. It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head. For now I have to tone down, be patient and pretend until I can find my way out. It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Back to topic. I think it is very dangerous for someone to claim to fight evil and fitnah no matter what your belief is. You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will. You cannot force a belief system on them neither can you force your version of "good" on them, because good is subjective and evil is the opposite of good.
Hmm, I came across that. In that sense, you have to change your way. I mean proof won't do a thing to them. You have to show that you apply Quran in your daily life. Don't pretend though. Just do what the verses say. Your lifestyle will be an example of Quran being the only guidance. Do it the way GL said
Fight your corner with patience, wisdom and Qoran. Beat them by what is best.
Don't challenge them in anything.
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It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head.
It's fear. Deep but hidden fear does this to oneself.
It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Minorities increase in their characteristics in a majority environment. It's all about self preservation. Again, fear.... fear of extinction.
You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will.
To comfortably, with tolerance, allow others to be what they are takes a certain amount of peace within.
Growing peace is what happens what we do things right, as per the system of the Rabb.
All the best
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That's what got me into trouble. If you attempt to pull down their imaginary world of tales and falsehood, they react with their emotions. They will do anything, literally anything to defend the world they live in. They turned from one of the nicest people I knew to aggressive and rude individuals.
Such behaviour of the religious is observable since ancient times ..
| https//d.gr-assets.com/authors/1391265856p2/6397759.jpg
| ?If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.?- Muhammad Ibn Zakaria Al Razi, 9th century Ulema (the word "Scientist" wasn't invented yet back then)
That is what happens when you refuse to play along their rules. My mother won't even let me speak to my siblings and it breaks my heart to see them in that state. I am bad influence to them. "I won't let an infidel come near my children" they said. She is convinced that she is doing something good and fighting evil and fitnah. She wanted me to be good. A practicing Muslim. Her definition of good is subjective though. She compares me to cousins everyday. How they wear Islamic clothing, grow a beard wear a skull cap, wear jack up trousers and thobe, rush to prayer every Friday, spend time at the mosque, fast, perform the five daily rituals, parrot(dhikr) some words 33 times after each ritual prayer and sing the Quran.
This religion has its own defense mechanism and is by far the most dangerous of all. It cannot tolerate anything that is different to it. It is amazing what religion can do someones head. For now I have to tone down, be patient and pretend until I can find my way out. It is quite ironic that this kind of abuse is happening in a non-Muslim country. A place where you apparently have the freedom of religion.
Back to topic. I think it is very dangerous for someone to claim to fight evil and fitnah no matter what your belief is. You have to recognize that each human is unique and has free will. You cannot force a belief system on them neither can you force your version of "good" on them, because good is subjective and evil is the opposite of good.
Detecting the presence of "Evil" the "True Evil" is very easy..
Detect the presence of "PRIDE" and "ARROGANCE" then Evil usually can be found lurking nearby.My sympathy to your situation with your family...
It is a delicate situation.. your mother has her own ego (just like any other mom in the world)
Thus it's very hard to make her listen to you or accept your opinion / belief as thus I wouldn't advice to go down that route.The inventor of religion (in this case the religion of Islam) is quite smart by imposing dogma to guard the sheep to always stay within the flock.
Ranging from death penalty for those who dare to leave the religion of Islam up to putting the blame / guilt on the parent / family / tribe.
Your mom is just a victim of such dogma...This is among the reason why I personally choose to become "Multi Religion" instead of "Irreligion".
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. Three things can not be hidden for long the Moon, the Sun and the Truth.?
-- Sidhharta Gautama -
Then they would not be kaffirs, they would be something else not good but not kaffirs.
hi,
I can not think of anything except maybe shayateen.
But I think every shaytaan is a kafir but not every kafir is a shaytaan.Even so I do not agree that they believe they are doing good. May be before they get into deep waters they may feel like heroes because they are young and inmature, but once they are committing real crimes, either they are caught and can do nothing about it save risk their life if they do not go along with it. That if they are not drugged. Besides I think most of them if not all are mercenaries. So they get their wages, crimes included or not. Much like Blackwater, although they changed their name. Now they are called something else.
Salaam
I really don't know, they have different backgrounds and different reasons/agendas. Very complicated
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Ok I understand now how you came to your definition, but this vers does not define the word kafara it just gives a attribute of those who kafaru.
The qurnic vb. - the direct antonym of - denoting "denial/negation/repudiation" can be easily deduced from context (as a whole, not just 8519). Ergo. contextually consistent.
A murderer comes to my house and wants to kill me. Before killing me he ask me if there is someone else in my home. I will lie to him if there is really someone in my house.
I denied the truth in hope to save a life. If you steel from me and I saw it, and I can prove it in a court the I will deny that you stole something from me if it will cost you your hand.
I denied the truth for a better cause.These imaginary scenarios are by no means valid, for they are not cases of KFR/denial (of ALLH andor His Signs)! You're mistakenly shifting the discussion from KFR (Denial of ALLH andor His Signs) to whether the act of kzb/lying can be morally justified (when facing danger), a different topic altogether !
I think I read from your posts that you believe in a flat earth. Well, I believe the earth is spherical. So, at least 1 of us is wrong. Both of us are convinced that our view is the truth.
So this means thus according to your definition that at least 1 of us is a kafir.True, until recently (more or less a year ago), i used to be a copernican Heliocentrist like yourself (and the rest/majority). I came to renounce the inherited, bubble of helios-centrism since both sense experience and Scripture evince a flat stationary Earth, instead of a spinning/rotating "ostrich-egg" ! Earth (with a capital E) is perfectly Flat, in my weltanschauung/dyn.
Get out of Babylon.
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The quranic vb. denoting "denial/negation/repudiation" can be easily deduced from context (as a whole, not just 8519). Ergo. contextually consistent.
Salaam,
If in kfr is a negation then there should be also a form of the word without this negation.
These imaginary scenarios are invalid examples, for they are not cases of KFR/denial (of ALLH and His Signs) !!! You're mistakenly shifting the discussion from KFR (Denial of ALLH andor His Signs) to whether the act of kzb/lying can be morally justified (when facing danger), a different topic altogether !
I thought you took "denying the truth" as the defintion for kfr that's why I gave these examples.
Can you give an example of one who is denying the truth?True, until recently (more or less a year ago), i used to be a Copernican Heliocentrist like yourself (and the rest/majority). I came to disawn the bubble of helios-centrism since both sense experience and Scripture evince a flat stationary Earth, instead of a spinning, rotating "ostrish-egg" !
GREEN There are a lot of people who believe in a sperical earth and a geocentric model...
Anyway let's supose you are right with this flat earth and I refuse to believe it despite your proofs, because of my own reasons, am I then a kafir according to you or kathab or maybe something else?
I want to understand what you mean with "denying the truth".Get out of Babylon.
ok
Salaam,
Bender -
I thought you took "denying the truth" as the defintion for kfr that's why I gave these examples.Can you give an example of one who is denying the truth?
By Denial (of the Truth), I obviously mean/t Denial of ALLH (The Truth. 2262) and/or His Signs Just sticking to the topic at hand, while remaining true/faithful to context.
Salute
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Salaamun,
I did not understand what you said -[
Please rephrase your sentence.Thanks and may Allah bless you pr
mmKhansalaamun bro,
You had this
I read it like this ABAA + STAKBAR + KAFIR
("+" = WA)You read it like this ABAA + STAKBAR = KAFIR
(first WA = "+", second WA = "="may Allah bless you to pr
Bender -
By Denial (of the Truth), I obviously mean/t Denial of ALLH (The Truth. 2262) and/or His Signs Just sticking to the topic at hand, while remaining true/faithful to context.
Salute
Salaam,
How do you translate the blue part of the next verse
239Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
How do you translate the blue part of the next verse
239Salaam,
BenderThose who COVER / CONCEAL / HIDE / SUPPRESS (Thus it will not spread or others will not know) and deny our signs.
Denying is one thing, but trying to conceal the truth is much worse...
Example
A murderer or corrupt religious leader will deny that he or she is guilty of murder or spreading illogical lies.. (obviously)And naturally he or she will try to cover all possible evidence through the means of
- Destroying evidence
- Spreading lies and propaganda
- Eliminating / killing witnesses
- Attacking those who dare to uncover his/her falsehood
- Trying to destroy the reputation or the life of those who dare to speak up against him / her.
