Purgatory
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Peace Tay
Are you talking in a philosophical sense?
By a philosophical sense do you mean non-literal? Currently I understand the reading as having many dimensions to it, I believe that if God is one then literal and non-literal must intersect if they are true, no contradictions.
I'm a bit confused because judgement is a common theme throughout the Qur'an, ie. 1054 ...They will be ridden with remorse when they see the retribution. They will be judged equitably, without the least injustice.
I believe if one is to be judged equitably then they must meet self, if you tell someone not to do something then this will be the law you are to abide to as well.
Now if you mean that the development of the soul is self-inflicted, meaning, we dig our own graves, I agree. I've always viewed the Last Day as the day the lights turn on. It's when we can see what we've done to ourselves and to others, without the ego barrier. All will be there, staring us in the face. That's how I view the Judgement.
I agree.
It reminds me of my homework. I often post pone doing my homework and then when the due date arrives, I wish for an extension in vain.
I gotta let my boss know about that one wink "I'm not coming in to work tomorrow because tomorrow is today, and Look! I'm already here!"
If I was your boss I would fire you the next day, which incidentally would be today. twisted
I'm just kidding bro. In a sense, I agree. It is always "now". Tomorrow never comes because it's always today.
I am somewhat a lil stumped, primarily on how the future can be right now, I see it but I don't.
But I am satisfied with my understanding of how the past is now, because we are currently the sum total of what we were in the past (like water drops in a cup).
If it did, then God would be quite a difficult concept to grasp. I agree with you.
Agreed. I see time just like words, God is not confined to them (creation).
Me too wink
My thoughts have been like sandcastles. They build up and start to develop into something and then a wave comes in and wipes it all out.Sounds like my bank account.
When I was younger, I was heavy into the whole parallel universe stuff. Then I became sort of a logician. Now I see things from both angles. One of the greatest attributes of pure science, imo, is that it keeps the door open to all possibilities. That's where I'm at right now, mostly because of my own experiences, which many people I've discussed with seem to share.
Consistency is a sure way to verification, I have found similar consistency between the reading and with books that are channeled, it is really interesting to search, much like a child does (ie you as a kid!)
There's definitely more to life than meets the eye.
Soooo true. Do you happen to do art?
Yes, people pay the price on a daily basis. But some do not. There's no clear cut way to define the karmic flow of energy, not unless we dig deeper beyond what is defined as reality.
I believe we make our own reality.
I read awhile back that a patient who was hypnotised formed a blister on their skin when the suggestion was made that there was something hot on that particular location, mind over matter.
My point being is that mind is the builder, God gives the light and we project what ever we see onto the screen, if we are in control of our selves we do literally inherit the earth.
Btw how do you define karma?
pz
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Peace Khalil,
I'm enjoying this dialogue.
By a philosophical sense do you mean non-literal?
When I say philosophical, I mean in abstract. The true face of judgement, whatever our current beliefs are, will not show itself until the time has come. That being said, the time WILL come, as is repeated throughout the Qur'an.
I understand your view of judgement being a constant process, and this ties into my understanding of karma. But I currently differentiate between the immediate results of the law of cause and effect, and the end result of all of our actions/inactions/thoughts, etc.
Metaphorically, the way I view it, as was once described to me, is that we are the sculptors of our self. In each decision, in each action, in each thought, lies a chisel at the marble. We create the beauty or the deformation, minute by minute, day by day. In the end, whenever that may be, the canvas is pulled off of the sculpture and the result is manifested. It is good, or it is not. That is the moment of judgement, in my view.
Currently I understand the reading as having many dimensions to it, I believe that if God is one then literal and non-literal must intersect if they are true, no contradictions.
No offense, but there is a slight contradiction in your explanation. Multi-layered (parallel) and intersecting (perpendicular) are opposites. Therefore, a concept can be multi-layered without being intersecting, and vice versa. One does not need the other. But a concept can be both multi-layered and intersecting. I don't mean to nitpick, but the reason I am pointing this out is because my current view is that the Qur'an is multi-layered in it's literal vs. allegorical topics, and not intersecting. In many other ways, it is both. But when it comes to symbolism vs. realism, it is multi-layered. Of course, I'm open to more discussion about this.
I believe if one is to be judged equitably then they must meet self, if you tell someone not to do something then this will be the law you are to abide to as well.
Again, I see this more as the process prior to the judgement, than as the judgement itself.
I often post pone doing my homework and then when the due date arrives, I wish for an extension in vain.
Sounds familiar wink
I am somewhat a lil stumped, primarily on how the future can be right now, I see it but I don't.
But I am satisfied with my understanding of how the past is now, because we are currently the sum total of what we were in the past (like water drops in a cup).
There is no past, there is no future, there is only now. Think about it...is it ever not now?
I see time just like words, God is not confined to them (creation).
Well put. I see it the same way, except that we are also not confined to the words. It is our preoccupation with time that often blinds us to our transcendence of it. Think about this... in your lifetime, you've more than likely breathed in some of the same molecules of oxygen as Isa, or Musa, or Ibrahim.
Consistency is a sure way to verification, I have found similar consistency between the reading and with books that are channeled, it is really interesting to search, much like a child does (ie you as a kid!)
How true indeed.
Do you happen to do art?
I produce music when time allows for it wink
I used to dabble in some surreal sketching. I wasn't very good but it was fun just letting the pencil go where it wanted to go. Letting my subconscious flow onto paper taught me alot about myself, which reminds me now that I should probably get back to that. Thanks.How about your self?
I believe we make our own reality.
Absolutely. The sun setting can make one cry one day, and fall down in disbelief the next. We project our selves on the world out there.
I read awhile back that a patient who was hypnotised formed a blister on their skin when the suggestion was made that there was something hot on that particular location, mind over matter.
Very believeable. I've experienced something similar.
My point being is that mind is the builder, God gives the light and we project what ever we see onto the screen, if we are in control of our selves we do literally inherit the earth.
I agree completely.
Btw how do you define karma?
As simply as possible cause and effect.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay
I'm enjoying this dialogue.
Dido.
When I say philosophical, I mean in abstract. The true face of judgement, whatever our current beliefs are, will not show itself until the time has come. That being said, the time WILL come, as is repeated throughout the Qur'an.
I agree. This is what I believe is alluded to when one is raised up ?naked?; it is the time when one cannot hide/cover their self with money, a position or a title (like Adam did in the garden with the leaves).
I understand your view of judgement being a constant process, and this ties into my understanding of karma.
Is not the end result of our actions (cause) the effect, is that not the same as karma?
But I currently differentiate between the immediate results of the law of cause and effect, and the end result of all of our actions/inactions/thoughts, etc.
I see the end result of all our actions/inactions/thoughts right now, what we are is the totality of everything we were.
However I see our finality as a return back to God.
Metaphorically, the way I view it, as was once described to me, is that we are the sculptors of our self. In each decision, in each action, in each thought, lies a chisel at the marble. We create the beauty or the deformation, minute by minute, day by day.
I understand your metaphor and agree with the sculptor comparison.
However, I believe marble is to hard of a substance, how about clay
When clay recieves rain (heaven sent) it is able to move and be free and eventually formless, such as we must do; overcome our self. Yet, no matter how rigid and hard set we become in our habits we can be free/ressurected by turning towards water, that is to say, where ?we? came from.
In the end, whenever that may be, the canvas is pulled off of the sculpture and the result is manifested. It is good, or it is not. That is the moment of judgement, in my view.
Is not the end right now though? I believe every second of time is subject to life, death and resurrection. One second has just ended and now I am experiencing another second, violla!
I agree with the judgment as being comparable to an unveiling/de-veiling of a sculpture, but that I see as something that can happen in this life, but not always will.
No offense, but there is a slight contradiction in your explanation.
None taken.
Multi-layered (parallel) and intersecting (perpendicular) are opposites. Therefore, a concept can be multi-layered without being intersecting, and vice versa.
Please elaborate because this is the part I am not getting.
One does not need the other. But a concept can be both multi-layered and intersecting. I don't mean to nitpick, but the reason I am pointing this out is because my current view is that the Qur'an is multi-layered in it's literal vs. allegorical topics, and not intersecting.
I disagree or rather do not fully understand what you are saying, could you please elaborate. I believe for an example that the ressurection occours literally, as can be seen in plants (tulips for example) and seasons (winter, summer, etc) and also can occour no-literally in our habits, addictions or ideas. As well in the story of Mary and Jesus I see that what is born without, first is conceived within, literally and non-literally.
In many other ways, it is both. But when it comes to symbolism vs. realism, it is multi-layered.
How do you see a concept and symbol as being different?
Of course, I'm open to more discussion about this.
Dido.
Again, I see this more as the process prior to the judgement, than as the judgement itself.
I am not quite there yet in my understanding. Because I do believe that we will have a final judgement (life assessment/evaluation?)at our death but every do the scales of judgement produce their measure.
Sounds familiar
If only I was given a second chance. ops
There is no past, there is no future, there is only now. Think about it...is it ever not now?
I get you. Past and future are only was and will be, but now always is so it is all there is, isn't it.
Well put. I see it the same way, except that we are also not confined to the words. It is our preoccupation with time that often blinds us to our transcendence of it.
Interesting that you'd say we are confined to what we occupy our mind towards.
So When we occupy our towards the remeberance of God then we are only confined to God, I don?t know where this train of thought stops at or is heading though. Hmmm.. and God told the angels to submit to adam (us?) so we are given control over our selves.
Think about this... in your lifetime, you've more than likely breathed in some of the same molecules of oxygen as Isa, or Musa, or Ibrahim.
True, molecules gets around.
I produce music when time allows for it
Interesting smartypants, but do elaborate.
Do you have any tracks on soundclick yet or else where for thy ears to sample upon?
I want to get into producing, right now I just write rhyme/poetry but the way I rap with it is more of a spoken word type of style. This is why I want to get into producing because the producer or two that I know only make the typical looped drum beat, plus im very scrutinous with the way I lay down things.
What programs do you use?
I used to dabble in some surreal sketching. I wasn't very good but it was fun just letting the pencil go where it wanted to go. Letting my subconscious flow onto paper taught me alot about myself, which reminds me now that I should probably get back to that. Thanks.
That?s good your going to go back, don?t stop it, its indescribable. Surrealism is interesting from what I know, if I was to categorize my style I would probably say its surreal meets expressionism meets the family. Right now I am currently loving Gaugin and Van Gough.
A tip I have for when you draw is that don?t draw with expectations if you want a ?masterpiece?, apply this to living as well.
How about your self?
Yes yes yes. As far back as I can remember. If you want to see some pictures just give the word and I?ll post you some photos. (In the future-time!!-I plean to scan the work and create an online portfolio)
Very believeable. I've experienced something similar.
Do elaborate please.
As simply as possible cause and effect.
At the moment I am hold the same understanding, however I am considering that cause and effect is part of karma but not karma its self if that makes any sense.
Off topic but I remember last year in my philosophy class my teacher could not see that ?cause and effect? is the same as ?you reap what you so? because he believed that resurrection and reincarnation were not descriptions for the same thing.
I am curious on this, what are your thoughts on the following definition of karma.
Karma is neither a debt that must be paid according to some universal tally sheet, nor is it necessarily a set of specific circumstances that must be experienced because of deeds or misdeeds perpetrated in the past. Karma is simply a memory. It is a pool of information that the subconscious mind draws upon and can utilize in the present. It has elements that are positive as well as those which may seem negative.
It is based on a defintion that came through a very very very interesting fella named Edgar Cayce.
pz
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Peace Khalil,
You stated,
Is not the end result of our actions (cause) the effect, is that not the same as karma?
Precisely, but on-going, not the end.
Karma = While we are alive
Judgement = When we are deadExample
n the Qur'an we are told that those who deny the truth have a veil over their eyes. This is karma. The more one denies the truth, the less access one has to the truth.But we are also told that when the day of reckoning is upon us, those who denied the truth will see what they have done. The veil will be lifted. This is part of the "judgement", and not karma.
I understand your metaphor and agree with the sculptor comparison. However, I believe marble is to hard of a substance, how about clay
Very clever. I've since altered my metaphor to include clay instead of marble, with your permission of course.
Is not the end right now though? I believe every second of time is subject to life, death and resurrection. One second has just ended and now I am experiencing another second, violla!
I don't think so. All evidence points to an evolution of the universe. We will be transformed from our heavy physical bodies and clouded minds into pure light, with the permission of God.
I agree with the judgment as being comparable to an unveiling/de-veiling of a sculpture, but that I see as something that can happen in this life, but not always will.
I'm sure what you mean there. Please explain.
Please elaborate because this is the part I am not getting.
Sure. One can view a concept as symbolic, as literal, or as both. The concept has multiple properties, multiple meanings, multiple layers of understanding.
Intersecting means you follow one layer which will always lead to another layer. It is linear, a progression or regression. This is not how I view the Qur'an's use of symbolism. There are many people who are quite content with believing that Moses parted the Red Sea with his staff. And that's fine. But this belief doesn't always lead one to a deeper understanding. Hence, this story cannot be thought of as intersecting. It is, however, multi-layered, as when one digs deeper, he/she finds deeper understanding.
How do you see a concept and symbol as being different?
A concept can have symbolic meaning or literal meaning, or both.
Past and future are only was and will be, but now always is so it is all there is, isn't it.
It is.
Do you have any tracks on soundclick yet or else where for thy ears to sample upon? What programs do you use?
Currently I'm working about 60 hours a week so time is quite constricted. I have signed up at Soundclick, just haven't gotten around to uploading my tracks. As for software, I use Reason to produce, SoundForge to edit, Acid to sequence, and T-Racks plus Dynasone for mastering.
A tip I have for when you draw is that don?t draw with expectations if you want a ?masterpiece?, apply this to living as well.
Good advice. I've found that when I don't "try" and just flow, it always works out better. That's really the only way to let the subconscious speak.
If you want to see some pictures just give the word and I?ll post you some photos.
Please do.
I am curious on this, what are your thoughts on the following definition of karma.
I'm not sure I agree. I think the definition is too watery. I agree that there exists a "pool of information that the subconscious mind draws upon and can utilize in the present", but I wouldn't call that pool "karma". I think karma does mean "you reap what you sow". It is the law of cause and effect, perhaps more subtle and spiritual than "if i bang my toe with a hammer it will cause pain".
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay
I apoligize for the sluggish delay in responding, my pc had a virus and has being fixed only several days ago. However, all things are created in pairs, thus a disaster is a delicacy as well. With out the computer I have had a seemingly more constructive use of my time. I have lately being devoting a larger amount of time to my art, I have learned something which I believe you will appreciate. All the colors that we see are formed from white light, the hue/tone a color becomes is based upon how much of the light it absorbs.
Precisely, but on-going, not the end.
I disagree. If our actions have a beginning then they must have an ending. When one door closes another opens, after an ending a beginning occurs.
Karma = While we are alive
Judgement = When we are deadI believe death is a lack of consciousness, hence we die in our sleep. For judgement to occour we must be conscious, while karma occurs when we are conscious and unconscious. I see karma as meeting our self and judgment as confronting our self.
Example
n the Qur'an we are told that those who deny the truth have a veil over their eyes. This is karma. The more one denies the truth, the less access one has to the truth.But we are also told that when the day of reckoning is upon us, those who denied the truth will see what they have done. The veil will be lifted. This is part of the "judgement", and not karma.
I agree.
Very clever. I've since altered my metaphor to include clay instead of marble, with your permission of course.
By all means. D
I don't think so. All evidence points to an evolution of the universe. We will be transformed from our heavy physical bodies and clouded minds into pure light, with the permission of God.
In order to evolve upwards an old self/pattern/lifestyle must die off and a new one be born .
I do not believe we need to rid ourselves of our physical bodies, rather we should not become yoked to our physical bodies.
I'm sure what you mean there. Please explain.
Sculpted art can only be seen by those with sight and not the blind-one may attain sight in the present or the hereafter.
Sure. One can view a concept as symbolic, as literal, or as both. The concept has multiple properties, multiple meanings, multiple layers of understanding.
Intersecting means you follow one layer which will always lead to another layer. It is linear, a progression or regression. This is not how I view the Qur'an's use of symbolism. There are many people who are quite content with believing that Moses parted the Red Sea with his staff. And that's fine. But this belief doesn't always lead one to a deeper understanding. Hence, this story cannot be thought of as intersecting. It is, however, multi-layered, as when one digs deeper, he/she finds deeper understanding.
Thank you for the explanation. I believe that you are explaining intersecting layers as layers with only one dimension while multiple layers exceed that. Could you give me an example of how the story of Moses parting the red sea does not intersect? I believe now that the story intersects and is multi layered. For example, based on Moses control of the jinn in relation to Adams submission to the jinn I believe the story intersects and based on the various meanings of what can compromise a jinn I believe the story is multi-layered.
A concept can have symbolic meaning or literal meaning, or both.
Makes sense, I do not know why I missed that before. Thank you for the clarification.
Currently I'm working about 60 hours a week so time is quite constricted.
That is truly massive, why so much?
I have signed up at Soundclick, just haven't gotten around to uploading my tracks. As for software, I use Reason to produce, SoundForge to edit, Acid to sequence, and T-Racks plus Dynasone for mastering.
Thank you for the information, just my curiousity wondered about the programs. Be sure to post up your music in the future.
Good advice. I've found that when I don't "try" and just flow, it always works out better. That's really the only way to let the subconscious speak.
It is much like Moses and the children of Israel, we cannot force our sub-concious we can only direct it.
Please do.
I will upload the pictures in due time, currently all my photos have being erased from my computer.
I'm not sure I agree. I think the definition is too watery. I agree that there exists a "pool of information that the subconscious mind draws upon and can utilize in the present", but I wouldn't call that pool "karma". I think karma does mean "you reap what you sow". It is the law of cause and effect, perhaps more subtle and spiritual than "if i bang my toe with a hammer it will cause pain".
Sounds good. I was just curious of your thoughts at that moment, perhaps I will have a grander response in the future.
peace
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Peace Khalil,
You stated
I apoligize for the sluggish delay in responding
No problemo.
I have lately being devoting a larger amount of time to my art
Good for you, bro. I can't think of a better way to spend time.
You asked, previously,
Is not the end result of our actions (cause) the effect, is that not the same as karma?
I replied
Precisely, but on-going, not the end.
Karma = While we are alive
Judgement = When we are deadand you replied
I disagree. If our actions have a beginning then they must have an ending. When one door closes another opens, after an ending a beginning occurs.
Yes, and no. Yes, an action has a beginning and an end, and in the course of our lives, the consequences occur in the realm of Karma. This is what I mean by on-going. But in the end, meaning the end of life, we are judged. This judgement is final.
I believe death is a lack of consciousness, hence we die in our sleep. For judgement to occour we must be conscious, while karma occurs when we are conscious and unconscious. I see karma as meeting our self and judgment as confronting our self.
I understand, but I disagree. Again, the example of lucid dreaming indicates that the consiousness is not dead during sleep, only that the subconscious is dominant.
I stated
In the Qur'an we are told that those who deny the truth have a veil over their eyes. This is karma. The more one denies the truth, the less access one has to the truth.But we are also told that when the day of reckoning is upon us, those who denied the truth will see what they have done. The veil will be lifted. This is part of the "judgement", and not karma.
You stated
I agree
Are you sure, because this seems to be the crux of our debate.
You stated
In order to evolve upwards an old self/pattern/lifestyle must die off and a new one be born
Yes, evolution of the self begins in this life. But the quantum leap from this life to the next is the evolution I'm speaking of.
I do not believe we need to rid ourselves of our physical bodies, rather we should not become yoked to our physical bodies.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. My understanding is that the physical body dies and decays and remains in this plane of existence as worm food and fertilizer, while our nafs ascends into the Hereafter, returning to the Source.
Sculpted art can only be seen by those with sight and not the blind-one may attain sight in the present or the hereafter.
I understand now. Yes, we can see the manifestations of our actions in this life, but I believe it is only available in glimpses. Perhaps, if one had the time and the energy to meditate and reflect on an entire lifetime of decisions, actions, and inactions, one could see a good chunk of this manifestation, but I doubt the physical brain is capable of holding such memories. The results of our deeds are imprinted on our soul, whether we remember them or not.
Thank you for the explanation. I believe that you are explaining intersecting layers as layers with only one dimension while multiple layers exceed that. Could you give me an example of how the story of Moses parting the red sea does not intersect? I believe now that the story intersects and is multi layered. For example, based on Moses control of the jinn in relation to Adams submission to the jinn I believe the story intersects and based on the various meanings of what can compromise a jinn I believe the story is multi-layered.
I gotta say that I cannot disgree here. I think the terms multi-layered and intersecting are subjective in this particular context and we could go on forever supporting our understandings, with neither of us being wrong.
That is truly massive, why so much?
That's where life has me right now. I don't plan on staying in this routine much longer.
Thank you for the information, just my curiousity wondered about the programs. Be sure to post up your music in the future.
You're welcome, and I will.
It is much like Mose?s and the children of Israel, we cannot force our sub-concious we can only direct it.
Hmm...I think it's the other way around. The subconscious is the real "us", and should not be lead, but should be leading.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
The souls of dead people are held in the same place that we all go when we sleep...
Bad people will have nightmares during their wait, good people will have pleasent dreams.
The only exception is martyrs who are automatically granted life with God and admitted to a place which is akin to heaven (but not heaven proper).
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Peace,
The souls of dead people are held in the same place that we all go when we sleep...
Bad people will have nightmares during their wait, good people will have pleasent dreams.
The only exception is martyrs who are automatically granted life with God and admitted to a place which is akin to heaven (but not heaven proper).
Khi- Salam. This is a good explanation. Ive thght abt whether we r responsible 4 our deeds in dreams or not. The Quran does say tht GOD takes our souls back at sleep. But there r two main parts of sleep. One is REM(rapid eye movement phase) n the other non-REM. In the non REM phase we r completely at rest n feel nothing. We never feel or experience this situation n our conscience jumps 2 the REM phase. We thus experience those many hrs in rem phase as mere nothing or no time. The REM phase is the one in which we see dreams which is usually the last part of sleep in which our eyes move rapidly left right as we watch the dream scenario. Now is GOD talking abt the non REM phase only where He takes our souls away or the complete sleep. I think the former makes more sense since thts the part we dont feel anything i.e. we become like non existant. In our dreams we do experience n feel ourselves dont we? GOD Bless!
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Peace Layth,
I agree with your thoughts. Interesting that you mentioned the experience of martyrs. I often wonder about folks who've had near-death experiences and remark about a blissful peace, incomparable to this life. Perhaps they "touched" this portion of heaven 'minor'.
What say you?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay
Yes, and no. Yes, an action has a beginning and an end, and in the course of our lives, the consequences occur in the realm of Karma. This is what I mean by on-going. But in the end, meaning the end of life, we are judged. This judgement is final.
I understand what you are saying, I was merely nitpicking the use of the term end.
You mention that this judgement is final, when did the judgements before this take place?
I understand, but I disagree. Again, the example of lucid dreaming indicates that the consiousness is not dead during sleep, only that the subconscious is dominant.
I should have being more clear wih my choice of words. Our conciousness of what is happening around us is dead during sleep.
Are you sure, because this seems to be the crux of our debate.
As sure as my understanding permits, please correct me if I am wrong.
I agree with your def. of karma We meet our self (cannot touch what we pushed away-truth).
I agree with your def. of judgement day We confront our self (viel removed).
Yes, evolution of the self begins in this life. But the quantum leap from this life to the next is the evolution I'm speaking of.
I see what you are implying. I was only elaborating on what you said to demonstrate how everything reflects/mirrors eachother on a macro/micro scale.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. My understanding is that the physical body dies and decays and remains in this plane of existence as worm food and fertilizer, while our nafs ascends into the Hereafter, returning to the Source.
Well, 'as a tree falls so does it lie.' That is to say, when we cast away our flesh garments thats all we are doing, changing clothes. We do not all of a sudden change from a tyrant to a peacemaker by changing something on the outside, as we can see all things are concieved within, thier shadows only bear without. This is my take.
One can be in jail, yet may be freeer than one who is imprisoned in thier mind. This I believe is why we are reffered to as clay, it is up to us wether our body becomes a prison or not.
I understand now. Yes, we can see the manifestations of our actions in this life, but I believe it is only available in glimpses.
As I have mentioned before, many people who have had near-death experiences have recounted having what is dubbed a life review. I recall you mentioned having one (near death experience), care to elaborate?
Perhaps, if one had the time and the energy to meditate and reflect on an entire lifetime of decisions, actions, and inactions, one could see a good chunk of this manifestation, but I doubt the physical brain is capable of holding such memories. The results of our deeds are imprinted on our soul, whether we remember them or not.
Percisely, this is how our hands, feet and body bear witness to us.
I gotta say that I cannot disgree here. I think the terms multi-layered and intersecting are subjective in this particular context and we could go on forever supporting our understandings, with neither of us being wrong.
I understand.
That's where life has me right now. I don't plan on staying in this routine much longer.
Beautiful, the deeper we carve the cup, the more it can hold.
Hmm...I think it's the other way around. The subconscious is the real "us", and should not be lead, but should be leading.
Your right. Rather the children of Israel are more akin to our emotions (in art). I had a lovely session of directing the children to a canvas today, yaay.
peace
Edit typos/small errors
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Peace Khalil,
You stated
You mention that this judgement is final, when did the judgements before this take place?
It is on-going(Karma)
Our conciousness of what is happening around us is dead at sleep.
Gotcha, and I agree. Interestingly, a book I'm currently reading (The Holographic Universe) is seriously challenging this very belief. It is, in fact, challenging many of my beliefs. we'll see where it takes me wink
I agree with your def. of karma We meet our self (cannot touch what we pushed away-truth).
I agree with your def. of judgement day We confront our self (viel removed).
D
I see, I was just demonstrating how everything reflects/mirrors each other.
My apologies for missing the point. Let's take it one step further, every 'thing' contains all the information of everything.
Well, 'as a tree falls so does it lie.' That is to say, when we cast away our flesh garments thats all we are doing, changing clothes. We do not all of a sudden change from a tyrant to a peacemaker by changing something on the outside, as we can see all things are concieved within, thier shadows only bear without. This is my take.
I understand and agree. What orignally threw me off was your use of the word "physical". Thanks for clarifying.
As I have mentioned before, many people who have had near-death experiences have recounted having what is dubbed a life review. I recall you mentioned having one, care to elaborate?
My near-death experience was not so much a "life review", as it was a momentary graduation. I had no recollection of this world, this life, my family, my friends, and I didn't mind one bit. I was being pulled toward a massive barrier, but I was in the form of a formless consciousness. I was only thought, at peace, yet powerless. My memories of it are still vivid, and I often conclude that I may have been heading towards Hell. I am ever grateful to God for giving me a second chance. I've since changed my awful habits and, although I still have my vices, I feel I've become a better person. If my time allows it, I will be free from vice, free from physical reality, before my next moment of reckoning.
As for any real "life reviews" I've experienced, I've only had glimpses, albeit, very powerful and clear glimpses. I know what I need to do, I just need to do what I know.
I had a lovely session of directing the children to a canvas today, yaay.
God bless you.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay
It is on-going(Karma)
hmmm... Karma is judgement just not the final judgement?
Gotcha, and I agree. Interestingly, a book I'm currently reading (The Holographic Universe) is seriously challenging this very belief. It is, in fact, challenging many of my beliefs. we'll see where it takes me wink
That is beautiful indeed. It is amazing to see what picture ones mind can create when they have a fresh surface to dabble on.
every 'thing' contains all the information of everything.
Think DNA
I understand and agree. What orignally threw me off was your use of the word "physical". Thanks for clarifying.
No problem. You say tomato, I say tamato.
My near-death experience was not so much a "life review", as it was a momentary graduation.
The error is mine, I meant you had a near death experience, not a life review.
I had no recollection of this world, this life, my family, my friends, and I didn't mind one bit. I was being pulled toward a massive barrier, but I was in the form of a formless consciousness. I was only thought, at peace, yet powerless. My memories of it are still vivid, and I often conclude that I may have been heading towards Hell. I am ever grateful to God for giving me a second chance. I've since changed my awful habits and, although I still have my vices, I feel I've become a better person. If my time allows it, I will be free from vice, free from physical reality, before my next moment of reckoning.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Two questions come to mind. Why do you feel you were heading towards hell? How did your near-death experience occour?
As for any real "life reviews" I've experienced, I've only had glimpses, albeit, very powerful and clear glimpses. I know what I need to do, I just need to do what I know.
The great dilemma, it seems to be the same problem throughout recorded history.
God bless you.
Thanks for the love, may God breath life into your music.
peace
-
Peace Khalil,
hmmm... Karma is judgement just not the final judgement?
Kinda sorta. I prefer to think of Karma as the daily cause and effect, while the "final judgement" is the ultimate cause and effect.
Two questions come to mind. Why do you feel you were heading towards hell? How did your near-death experience occour?
I passed out at a "balloon party". I was on several hallucinogenic drugs at the same time, mixed with alcohol among other things, and carelessly inhaled from a good 15 of these ballons filled with nitrous oxide.
As for why I think it was Hell, the barrier I spoke of was a wall of flame that seemed to extend in all directions infinitely. I was being pulled towards it. The strange thing is, I didn't mind. I had let go of life. The only worldly connection I still had was the sound of faint voices, slowly growing louder..."come on man, you can do it...you gotta come back man...hold on...hold on...come one man..." and then I woke up in a bathroom, looking up at 4 people I've never met before, or after. They looked horrified, yet relieved, as if they'd seen a ghost. God only knows what I was doing while unconscious to make them so concerned. But I'm grateful to them for helping me back, whoever they are.
Thanks for the love, may God breath life into your music.
Likewise, your art.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay
I passed out at a "balloon party". I was on several hallucinogenic drugs at the same time, mixed with alcohol among other things, and carelessly inhaled from a good 15 of these ballons filled with nitrous oxide.
As for why I think it was Hell, the barrier I spoke of was a wall of flame that seemed to extend in all directions infinitely. I was being pulled towards it. The strange thing is, I didn't mind. I had let go of life. The only worldly connection I still had was the sound of faint voices, slowly growing louder..."come on man, you can do it...you gotta come back man...hold on...hold on...come one man..." and then I woke up in a bathroom, looking up at 4 people I've never met before, or after. They looked horrified, yet relieved, as if they'd seen a ghost. God only knows what I was doing while unconscious to make them so concerned. But I'm grateful to them for helping me back, whoever they are.
In my opinion it seems we must (I don't know if we must, yet it seems like so) experience the depths before we long for the heights, like planting a seed in soil.
I find it Interesting that you mention you did not mind being pulled toward the fire. A book I was reading yesterday (1) used a nice metaphor to explain such as like attracts like.
It takes more so than a day to remove the yarn of our habits which we've spun over time, thus one who's fabric is of serving its desires will be inclined/yoked/chained to that and not content with paradise until they begin to unwind/unravvel their fabric one day at a time.
Just thought I'd mention this.
Likewise, your art.
I uploaded several of my sketches online ( link.)
The quality is not the best because I just snapped them with a digi cam, once the march break is complete I will have access to a scanner and will show you them in actual high-res (as I do ALOT of minute detail in my pen peices).
Any feedback would be appreciated. Good day.
peace
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Peace Khalil,
One word...amazing!
Thank you for sharing your work. I've downloaded all the pics and I'm in the process of analyzing and making judgements about you. Just kidding I can't wait to see the details. It looks like a lot of stuff happening in those pics. As for feedback, what can I say - it's expression - and a great job of it at that. I hope you're not wasting that talent of yours.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay
One word...amazing!
oops
Thank you for sharing your work. I've downloaded all the pics and I'm in the process of analyzing and making judgements about you. Just kidding
Do not worry, it has being said we are our own worst critic so judge as harsh as you want, you cannot possibly outdue my harsh judgements P
I can't wait to see the details. It looks like a lot of stuff happening in those pics. As for feedback, what can I say - it's expression - and a great job of it at that. I hope you're not wasting that talent of yours.
I have try'd the other road of serving the ego and a bumpy road like that can only lead to accidents, I am not out to be a back seat driver no more.
I am out to become an art teacher, which reminds me, where are you setting your sail towards?
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Khalil,
Do not worry, it has being said we are our own worst critic so judge as harsh as you want, you cannot possibly outdue my harsh judgements
I didn't mean it like that. I meant, jokingly of course, that I would be analyzing the meanings behind your pictures to draw conclusions about your persona. Sorry for the confusion.
I have try'd the other road of serving the ego and a bumpy road like that can only lead to accidents, I am not out to be a back seat driver no more...I am out to become an art teacher
Well then, you're putting your talents to good use, which is what I was hoping.
which reminds me, where are you setting your sail towards?
My purpose is slowly coming in to focus. I'll let you know when I get there. I'm thinking it may be some sort of healing/therapy, but that;s just a shot in the dark at this point. In the meantime, I just visited a friend of mine who needs a partner for his recording studio. This has the makings of something great. We'll see what happens.
btw, I've found the time to locate my tracks. Now it's just a matter of making the right selections before the upload. I'll keep you posted.
Peace,
Tay
