On Marijuana
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The issue is craving for earthly matters.
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The issue is craving for earthly matters.
Salam, yes, the issue is the craving of earthly matter and its deterrence from the worship of God, which should be priority #1.
Smoking pot, drinking alcohol, overeating junk food, whatever it is. You have to ask yourself what void you have inside you that you are trying to fill. And then ask yourself why you refuse to use Allah to fill that void.
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Khumer could refer to lying or concealing the truth as well as wine/strongly fermented drinks (date/grape wine in those times). Indeed, when people are drunk they often conceal or exaggerate the truth (not just intoxicated drunk, but drunk with power or fame as well).
This verse of course does not say "intoxicants", this is a modern promoted translation; all older translations will say wine/fermented drinks. It clearly says Khumer (date/grape wine; and/or concealing the truth), it is a nuanced word with double meaning, like modern puns in English, the Qur'an is full of this type of language.
Of course if there were to be verses outlawing marijuana or opium it would have been easy, as their use was widespread during the time of the revelation of Qur'an. However, they are specifically not prohibited because of their medical qualities. Indeed, al-kohol, or alcohol, was invented by Muslim and Jewish physicians/alchemists who were discovering how to distill these same herbal medicines that had been in use for thousands of years. Alcohol was meant as a sterilizing and extracting agent for herbal medicines and surgical procedures. It was never meant to be drank!
Anyway, I would just remind people on this forum that millions upon millions of people daily receive medical treatments, procedures, and prescribed doses that involve specifically these two natural plants, Cannabis and Opium.
I will also remind you of God's own words
1057 O mankind, there has to come to you instruction from your Lord and healing for what is in the breasts and guidance and mercy for the believers.
1058 Say, "In the bounty of Allah and in His mercy - in that let them rejoice; it is better than what they accumulate."
1059 Say, "Have you seen what Allah has sent down to you of provision of which you have made lawful and unlawful?" Say, "Has Allah permitted you , or do you invent about Allah ?"
1060 And what will be the supposition of those who invent falsehood about Allah on the Day of Resurrection? Indeed, Allah is full of bounty to the people, but most of them are not grateful."Salaam,
Clash.
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Khumer could refer to lying or concealing the truth as well as wine/strongly fermented drinks (date/grape wine in those times). Indeed, when people are drunk they often conceal or exaggerate the truth (not just intoxicated drunk, but drunk with power or fame as well).
This verse of course does not say "intoxicants", this is a modern promoted translation; all older translations will say wine/fermented drinks. It clearly says Khumer (date/grape wine; and/or concealing the truth), it is a nuanced word with double meaning, like modern puns in English, the Qur'an is full of this type of language.
Of course if there were to be verses outlawing marijuana or opium it would have been easy, as their use was widespread during the time of the revelation of Qur'an. However, they are specifically not prohibited because of their medical qualities. Indeed, al-kohol, or alcohol, was invented by Muslim and Jewish physicians/alchemists who were discovering how to distill these same herbal medicines that had been in use for thousands of years. Alcohol was meant as a sterilizing and extracting agent for herbal medicines and surgical procedures. It was never meant to be drank!
Anyway, I would just remind people on this forum that millions upon millions of people daily receive medical treatments, procedures, and prescribed doses that involve specifically these two natural plants, Cannabis and Opium.
I will also remind you of God's own words
1057 O mankind, there has to come to you instruction from your Lord and healing for what is in the breasts and guidance and mercy for the believers.
1058 Say, "In the bounty of Allah and in His mercy - in that let them rejoice; it is better than what they accumulate."
1059 Say, "Have you seen what Allah has sent down to you of provision of which you have made lawful and unlawful?" Say, "Has Allah permitted you , or do you invent about Allah ?"
1060 And what will be the supposition of those who invent falsehood about Allah on the Day of Resurrection? Indeed, Allah is full of bounty to the people, but most of them are not grateful."Salaam,
Clash.
Allah has said
O you who believe! Verily the intoxicants and games of chance and (sacrifices at) altars and divining arrows (are an) abomination from (the) work (of) the Shaitaan, so avoid it so that you may (be) successful.He gives specific instructions concerning intoxicants. Yes intoxicants not wine.
Those are two different words clash alkhamri or khamru is structurally, contextually different than khamran.Noun
(22193) l-khamri intoxicants
(5905) l-khamru the intoxicants
(59110) l-khamri intoxicants
(123610) khamran wine
(12417) khamran wine
(471520) khamrin wine -
Perhaps no one knows the true meaning then HP, as many translators seem to have differing translations.
Just take the first instance of "al khamri" 2219
Sahih International They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess ." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses that you might give thought.
Pickthall They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say that which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect.
Yusuf Ali They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs In order that ye may consider-
Shakir They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder
Muhammad Sarwar (Muhammad), they ask you about wine and gambling. Tell them that there is great sin in them. Although they have benefits for men, the sin therein is far greater than the benefit. They ask you about what they should give for the cause of God. Tell them, "Let it be what you can spare." This is how God explains for you His guidance so that perhaps you will think
Mohsin Khan They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allah makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."
Arberry They will question thee concerning wine, and arrow-shuffling. Say 'In both is heinous sin; and uses for men, but the sin in them is more heinous than the usefulness.' They will question thee concerning what they should expend. Say 'The abundance.' So God makes clear His signs to you; haply you will reflect;
1 out of 7 is translated as "intoxicants"
4 out of 7 as "wine
1 out of 7 as "strong drink"
1 out of 7 as "alcoholic drink"
So how do you come to your conclusion that it means all intoxicants HP? I am not being condescending, I really do want to know your methods.
What is the best way to resolve this issue between alkhamri and khamran?
I agree with you that those are the listed instances of it in the Qur'an as well (6 times), and once as a context for head covers
"(243116) bikhumurihinna their head covers "Salaam,
Clash.
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Hi Clash,
You portray a very deceiving account of how al khamri is translated. Corpus Quran does not have all the translations available.
According to a good source islamawakaned.com 23/48 translators chose intoxicants for al khamri
http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/219/default.htm
That's 47.91% nearly half of translators have chosen intoxicants over wine and alcohol.
A couple of the 23 have picked both and one has chosen to keep al khamri transliterated.We can see that a huge portion of translators are choosing intoxicants. This is telling information.
Although it is statistically implicating, it doesn't truly concern us.
We don't rely on traditional translators, rather word for word translations that avoid incorporating bias from a translator selecting words that resonate specifically with his linguistic style and interpretation.
You get me? That is why we use corpusquran.com for the word for word section not the quick translations. So we can analyze the morphology of the words and concurrences in the Quran and so forth.There is no issue for us to "resolve" between intoxicants and wine. Allah has explained already.
It is your heart perhaps that is refusing to comprehend, stubbornly.
Check all those 6 instances and if you will re read the chapters. That's always good.You will see the first three are admonitions from Khamri and gambling for the believers.
While the other three are about pressing grapes which produces wine and giving wine to drink.I have pressed grapes before and fermented the grape juice into wine. It increase in alcohol level as you ferment it over a long period of time.
What's worse is distilling the alcohol from dried skins of the grapes. This method of distillation is what generates liquors and so forth.Mind you regardless of what we are discussing.
A glass of wine with dinner is not the issue, opium used for medicinal purposes is not the issue.
The issue is those using the above as a pretense to excuse those who use them for the sole purpose of getting high or drunk. Who can calculate accurately what the exact dosage of wine they can intake or what the exact amount of pot they can smoke before they get drunk or high? That's a very difficult thing to do if not impossible.The point is you don't need to drink wine nor smoke marijuana it is a thing of leisure, that's why it is better to avoid it unless it is absolutely necessary. You mess up and get too drunk or high now you cannot uphold salat.
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Nice source HP, thank you for providing it to the forum, I will try to use this in future research; tabarak'Allah.
First, I agree with you HP about people abusing medicine, and the prohibitions on drinking and approaching prayers inebriated.
However according to your source, indeed as I figured, the majority of scholars translate the word as wine/strong drink/alcohol, 33 of the translations listed there. While only 21 instances of "intoxicant", and even those instances are mostly in the "Controversial, deprecated, or status undetermined works" category of translations.
Are you suggesting we should take the less agreed upon translation and usage here?
That being said, we must also ask the critical sociopolitical questions of our day Why would someone try to change this traditionally-held meaning (alcoholic beverages) now in the modern age? What political or economic agenda is afoot?
I would really suggest critically thinking about why our current laws, specifically against Cannabis, were introduced in the first place (hint look up the oil industry, cotton vs. hemp, chemical industry, paper industry, pharmaceutical industry, alcohol industry etc.) There is more to it than meets the eye.
I am not advocating for people to go and "mess" themselves up HP, nor to not perform salaat, not at all, please; I am simply stating that Allah has very clearly prohibited a few things, and has clearly encouraged or commanded much more, with much leeway in between. One thing Allah has prohibited though is other people prohibiting things that Allah has not clearly prohibited. So I take the issue of declaring things "haram" to be a very heavy decision; similar to trying to declare someone an unbeliever or enemy of Islam.
"Ask them to call their witnesses who will testify that God has made certain things unlawful. Even if they do testify, do not testify with them. Do not follow the desires of those who have rejected Our revelations and the people who do not believe in the Day of Judgment; and who hold others as equal (in worship) with their Lord." 6150
I only ask you to take this into consideration, we should not be so quick to condemn others. We have no idea how Allah will judge.
Salaam,
Clash.
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Dude literally nowhere have I said anything is forbidden or prohibited. That word has come from you alone buddy.
I am only presenting you God's command to avoid it in the Quran.
We know something has to be avoided, I have not stated it is prohibited, yet it seems you are not agreeing on what this thing to be avoided is.
You are stressing too much on translators. You have your own ability to assess meaning of words by checking word for word translations which are more accurate. I use islamawakaned.com to check the literal word by word translation not the other translations. So bringing up the translators is not relevant. I brought it up to show you that you improperly portrayed the proportion of translators choosing intoxicants. Bro 21/54 is still ~39% and that's if you are being accurate.
Check 590-91 it'll be ~48%.
Regardless these are still considerable amount of people and I don't give merit to most of those translators who then translate 434 as strike them, but that's a whole other argument.No matter how you feel the root for khamri conveys an intoxicating substance that clouds the mind or intellect. Both alcohol and drugs fit the bill, I don't know what motive YOU have for trying to exclude drugs from intoxicants.....
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Assalamu alaykum HP,
No motive brother, just that the word khumar does not seem to mean'intoxicants'; we should be consistent. It seems to mean a fermented alcoholic drink.
Why would these plants have been so prevalent throughout all of Islamic history, while alcohol was always banned?
I think it is because of the clear distinction of the word that has always existed up until recently.
As far as 434 and the majority of scholars using "strike/beat them"; I agree with you 100%. Again, it is important to look at the sociopolitical aspects to every issue. While Cannabis has had little to zero sociopolitical aspects until the 20th century, men's dominance over women (often physically) has had huge sociopolitical aspects to it since its inception. Thus, it is obvious to assume that the more pro-establishment (conservative) translators will always use what is a benefit to the people in power at the time. This is why understanding the politics of our day is so important, it can tell you where loyalties lie and why.
I guess what I am saying brother is this it is important to look at Fiqh al-Waqiah in any situation.
Salaam,
Clash.
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May Allah send Peace and Blessings to you
What you convey makes perfect sense. Except, I am not understanding what makes you determine that intoxicant is not an accurate translation.
What is your method of assessing the meaning of al Khamri. By the way the word is not khumar just to point out.If you check the root of khamri regardless of whether we define it as wine or intoxicant we get a sense that it is describing SOMETHING THAT CLOUDS THE MIND. Without any specific we can take this description and apply it to any such substances that cause this clouding of mind and intellect.
Tied in with the command in 443
O you who believe! (Do) not go near the prayer while you (are) intoxicated until you know what you are saying and not (when you are) impure except (when) passing (through) a way until you have bathed. And if you are ill or on a journey or came one of you from the toilet, or you have touched the women and not you find water, then do (with) earth clean and wipe (with it) your faces and your hands. Indeed, Allah is Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.Although Sakura is a different word, we get a sense that we are not to approach prayer with a fogged mind, ( if you will intoxicated)
My point is that it is not specifying what particular substance that causes the fogging hence any substance which causes this fogging of the mind should be avoided as per 590.
I understand your comments on sociopolitical aspects but again the translators here is of little concern.
You can check the root meaning and lexicons on your own. You will find kha mim ra conveys a substance that causes clouding of mind and intellect.Peace
HP_TECH
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Peace upon you HP,
Yes, I can agree with that definition completely brother, "something that clouds the mind" and prevents your from your "salaat", and that it should be avoided at all costs. Indeed, many modern pharmaceuticals and newly discovered drugs do this exact action and they are not alcohol per se, though we would still include them among substances to avoid.
Thank you so much for you knowledge and input on this subject HP, tabarak'Allah.
Salaam,
Clash.
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Assalamu alaykum HP,
No motive brother, just that the word khumar does not seem to mean'intoxicants'; we should be consistent. It seems to mean a fermented alcoholic drink.
Why would these plants have been so prevalent throughout all of Islamic history, while alcohol was always banned?
I think it is because of the clear distinction of the word that has always existed up until recently.
As far as 434 and the majority of scholars using "strike/beat them"; I agree with you 100%. Again, it is important to look at the sociopolitical aspects to every issue. While Cannabis has had little to zero sociopolitical aspects until the 20th century, men's dominance over women (often physically) has had huge sociopolitical aspects to it since its inception. Thus, it is obvious to assume that the more pro-establishment (conservative) translators will always use what is a benefit to the people in power at the time. This is why understanding the politics of our day is so important, it can tell you where loyalties lie and why.
I guess what I am saying brother is this it is important to look at Fiqh al-Waqiah in any situation.
Salaam,
Clash.
see this is what I mean fermented alcohol of fermented yeast? there is alcohol in bread yeast leaves alcohol as a by product and our very bodies break everything down into sugars. our dna again is sugar 2-deoxyribose out of the nucleic acid. retardation is caused when yeast turns a dna sugar into alcohol and CO2. this I have no base on except from reading biology books like books for dummies. I live in wine country so I kinda see this a lot.
yeast can eat any sugar which is the same sugar in just longer chains poly-sacchrides (poly means many) (saccharide means sugar) (mono means one like in Abrahamic monotheism).
does anyone agree with this? you can eat pot and take Tylenol and advil while pregenant but you sip alcohol you better hope all the yeast is dead or you babys in special ed?
also I've notice women with yeast infections are more annoying then usual but I don't think that's something to look into so much as the word in toxicant, intoxicate- to make toxic toxic means..... it means more than poison or poisonous theres a science and system or process being explained by the word toxic. like biology doesn't just mean it's definition and you know everything about the subject. -
marijuana is one of the curse of our new generation,,, as we know it makes u lazy and it is addictive as well ,, its better to stay away,, fromall the alcoholic things as well and intoxicants,, we should be loyal and hinest and truth is this .. God is not in the favour of to consume these things it will leads towards unlawful things that are forbidden for us.. so listen to the most wise ,, although its not a sin or haram but still it cant be good or useful thing disadvantages are more so as a wise person we should try to avoid it as much as we can,,, I m not pperfect though.. but after researching five years I decided not to promote intoxicants as oral use....
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Sorry late post I do owe an answer I smoke weed because I like the elevation and how it separates me from "the crowd" I also eat weed too brownies and tea. It was one of those things we all do to make ourselves more acceptable to the kafirs.
Some people blaspheme some people fornicate some people pretend they know nothing of ALLAH or refuse to call the kafirun kafirs.
Some don't wear hijab others simply say and agree to things they don't believe.
Simply I smoke weed because I don't find it to be unlawful how many herbs and growing roots do we use as medicines? Even things like snake venom are synth into pills to kill pain.Alcohol kills plants It's an obvious rot and it's in everything soap shampoo vinegar, bread, detergent and on the necks of those people passing by.
It stops you from thinking clearly it stops human brings from the telepathic way we had before we formed language.
Literally of you cut all alcohol from your diet and daily lives you will have a knowledge that makes you feel as thou you knew everything there is to know. Artifical flavours and extracts are alcohol based too.Can anything except alcohol cause humanity such lost?
Leave weed and tea to people who chose to consume such usuary and alcohol are purely destructive.It's an abomination of satan's handiwork ( does that mean he made it himself? Or is it something the enemies of mankind would give to his friends and enemies among the sons of adam?)
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Leave weed and tea to people who chose to consume such usuary and alcohol are purely destructive.
so if we have weed its nothing to do with alcohal and if we have it .is it a sin or will God be angry on us if we have weed ,
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Intoxicants are haram
we should avoid intoxicants , my analysis
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Does anyone understand what intoxicant are?
Does anyone see the word toxic?
Ask yourself does this just cover anything bad or does it cover anything pharmakinetic?
We are just talking about a flower and some leaves.
Heroin and cocaine are also made from son flower and some leaves yet the extraction is with many toxic breaking down agents.Alcohol is the waste from yeast feeding on sugars, a clear colored poison which can kill both of these plants.
See the big different?
Are we simply saying poisonous or pharmakentic ( causing certain bodily effects)
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Salaam everyone!
Out of curiosity, how many of you against the use of marijuana have actually ever used it? Some of the arguments against marijuana on this thread don't make any sense to me.
Like the OP, I smoke (should be using a vaporizer) marijuana quite often. Contrary to popular belief, it is not like what is portrayed in movies. There are no visual hallucinations when under the influence of marijuana. As for its effects on the mind, it is minuscule and kind of hard to explain. It doesn't make you "dumber" or "cloud your judgement." For me at least, it makes me truly understand and appreciate things I would not have understood had I not been under the influence of marijuana. All it does is make you think with a larger scope (different perspectives).
Marijuana expands the scope of my awareness. After all, there is a reason they call it getting "high" and not "low." In fact, I rarely think about Allah throughout my busy day. I know, I'm a horrible Muslim. Slowly, but surely working on that. Back to the point, when I use marijuana, I truly think, appreciate, and understand Allah. Had I not started smoking marijuana, I'm not so sure I'd be studying the Quran today. Heck, had I not started smoking marijuana, I probably wouldn't have made it this far associating myself with Quran only.
Also, just to add, marijuana does not prevent one from achieving success. Some of the most successful millionaire's I personally know smoke marijuana regularly. You guys should check out a new original series called "Highly Productive." The series is about very successful individuals who use marijuana. I have a cousin who went from doing NOTHING to being the founder of a multi-million dollar company. He has also appeared on Ted talk. Guess what... he is a BIG time pothead. Some of the most influential men/women in modern history smoked marijuana. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Barack Obama, Michael Phelps, and Oprah Winfrey are just a few examples...
I'd like to address a member of this forum that goes by "HP." HP made a few claims and asked a few questions regarding marijuana. I'd like to try and answer HP as best I can. Bare with me.
HP said, "Pot has a lot of negative long term effects on your cognitive skills.
Also because it is an illegal drug, much research on its effects has not been conducted.
There are implications however that it may be more severe than previously thought.
I would not advise anyone to any kind of drugs." Firstly, just because marijuana is illegal does not mean there has not been much research on its effects (not sure where you got that idea). There is more research on marijuana than you and I can probably read. And here is a bit from clinical trial data published in the American Journal of Addictions, "cannabis use -- including heavy, long-term use of the drug -- has, at most, only a negligible impact on cognition and memory." If you read the actual paper, the study basically shows that the long term negative effects of marijuana on cognition and memory are so minuscule that it's not even worth mentioning. However, the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry will mention the insignificant negative effects of marijuana over and over (I wonder why?). Here's some more, the study found "no significant difference" between heavy cannabis smokers compared to controls. There is MUCH more research on the subject which shows the positive effects of marijuana outweigh the negative effects by a milestone.HP asked,
"If you spend a lot of time smoking pot, how do you perform salat?" I perform salat like everyone else...
"Do you approach it while you're high?" No, but I probably wouldn't think of performing salat to begin with (it wouldn't cross my mind, I wouldn't remember, nor would I give it much importance) had I not been high earlier. In the future, I hope to remember performing salat without getting high prior. Am I wrong for this?
"Do you try to read while you're high?" I wonder why you used the word "try." Are you implying it is more difficult to read while you are high than when you are not? Would you know? Have you ever tried it? Have you ever even tried marijuana?
"Are you high right now?" No.
HP, I'm sorry brother, but it seems like your own personal bias is clouding your judgment. How can you be so negative towards something you hardly know about? You said it yourself, "much research on its effects have not been conducted." Which is not true, but even if it were, why jump to a conclusion so quick?
Finally, my personal opinion on the use of marijuana. Like many things, marijuana effects different people in different ways. I DO NOT recommend marijuana to everyone. If you know what you're doing and your mind is not easily influenced, go for it (moderately of course). If not, forget about it and just focus on Allah.
Edit to add* This is my first post! I look forward to joining more discussions in the future. )