Are they challenging ALLAH subhanvatala ?
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Salaam,
Yes we are, and we are with many, and we will prevail.
In Sha Allah
However Hadith followers will challenge us without break.
For example, I haven't completely break up with some Hadiths , and notice that I'm not Sunni.
I hope one day I will attain your confidence Bender.
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Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu
walikum muslam wa rehmatulleh wabarakatu.
every traditional Muslim who pray five times salah per day make this Dua at least 17 times in day .If we take ,quranist are the only rightly guided people ,than , the people who were making this Dua for the past 1200 hundred years were wrong ,or in other words ALLAH subhanvatal has not guided these people for the past 1200 years .Are the quranist are challenging ALLAH subhanavatal about his guidance?
Red , word quranist seems like sectar or group , whereas its just a name given to people who follow quran , and the rightly guided people are mention in quran already.
green
the civilisation and archelogy records shows clearly a civilisation more then ten thousand years old so you trying to say only we need to consider people from 1200 years whats about them who came before them..
pink
Allah guides whoever he wills, and misleads whoever he wills
christians are claiming jesu son of God or God is Allah is unaware from all of theses people, and before jesus it was mosa so should we think Allah is not guiding them fromm last 3000 years. same if some muslim do wrong, for example killing people in the name of religion , so are they guided really.
brown
nobody can challange Allah , and the purpose of this forum is to make mind free and research again what quran really means and what is the purpose reason and logic behind quranic meanings, if you think getting understanding is like challanging Allah its not the case,
everybody have right to investigate before believing anything , its totally matter of fate between you and your lord.
God bless you.
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In Sha Allah
Hi,
My comment was of course sarcastic. I think what Parvez said was just to stupid for words.
However Hadith followers will challenge us without break.
Challenge you in what?
For example, I haven't completely break up with some Hadiths , and notice that I'm not Sunni.
I have also not completely broke up with hadiths, that would be stupid because there are some good hadiths.
You should see hadiths as posts on this forum. Some are good, some bad, some make no sense, some are irrelevant, some ar shameless, some are baseless, some are wise, etc etc etc
Just follow the good ones as you do with all information you receive.RED Do you also believe in Nostradamus, soothsayers, horoscopes, etc?
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walikum muslam wa rehmatulleh wabarakatu.
Red , word quranist seems like sectar or group , whereas its just a name given to people who follow quran , and the rightly guided people are mention in quran already.
Can you tell me a Muslim sect which does not follow Quran .Of course , Quranist is anew sect which is developing its own ideology .otherwise ,every Muslim is Quranist .
green
the civilisation and archelogy records shows clearly a civilisation more then ten thousand years old so you trying to say only we need to consider people from 1200 years whats about them who came before them..
I think you missed out this concept in my OP
i will again reproduce here for younow as per the following verses
Verse 5610And the forerunners, the forerunners -
Verse 5611Those are the ones brought near
Verse 5612In the Gardens of Pleasure,
Verse 5613A company of the former peoples
Verse 5614And a few of the later peoples,
It is very clear from these verses that the same are at large numbers from the former generation and they gradually decrease among the later generations
If quranist claim that they not only follow our prophet but also all the prophets mention in quran because they all were given the same message ,Then as per this ayah ,the people(َ who belong to the previous generation(who were following different prophets ) must be more than the people who lived during the time of our prophet which is obviously a wrong conclusion to make because ,people prior to the generation of our prophet we idolators and hence they cannot be ,so it is obvious to conclude that the period for starts from the prophetmoreover ,ALLAH subhanavtala clearly mention that we don't have to bother about the generation of our previous prophets
Verse 2140
Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, "Are you more knowing or is Allah?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do.
Verse 2141So we don't have to bother about how the performed salah or how they lived and what was ordained upon them
This ayah clearly proves that the time line of each prophet starts with the prophet of that generation and we don't have to bother about the other prophets
pink
Allah guides whoever he wills, and misleads whoever he wills
christians are claiming jesu son of God or God is Allah is unaware from all of theses people, and before jesus it was mosa so should we think Allah is not guiding them fromm last 3000 years. same if some muslim do wrong, for example killing people in the name of religion , so are they guided really
ALLAH subahnavatal send Jesus to guide Jews and finally send our prophet to guide every religion .Islam answers every religion .
brown
nobody can challange Allah , and the purpose of this forum is to make mind free and research again what quran really means and what is the purpose reason and logic behind quranic meanings, if you think getting understanding is like challanging Allah its not the case,
everybody have right to investigate before believing anything , its totally matter of fate between you and your lord.
God bless you.
Hi,
.........
I have also not completely broke up with hadiths, that would be stupid because there are some good hadiths.
You should see hadiths as posts on this forum. Some are good, some bad, some make no sense, some are irrelevant, some ar shameless, some are baseless, some are wise, etc etc etc
Just follow the good ones as you do with all information you receive.RED Do you also believe in Nostradamus, soothsayers, horoscopes, etc?
Exactly , Ben and Imran
No one can challenge ALLAH subhanvatala
As per my thinking surah fathiha is a foreword or a introduction to Quran .My thinking is that every ayah in quran can be related to these seven verse of surah fathiha .I may be wrong but so far i was able to do that
Now as per verse 01.06
Verse 01.06So we are seeking the guidance from ALLAH subhanvatala
and in the next verse
Verse 01.07The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked anger or of those who are astray.
Note that we are asking two things .
1.The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor.....
If I cross check this verse with quran then They are as per the Verse 4.69And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger - those will be with the ones upon whom Allah has bestowed favor of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous. And excellent are those as companions.
I know as , Ben had pointed out that there are some good hadiths and i agree with . our prophet never would have done anything except Quran
If traditional salah was/is wrong then it means ALLAH subhanvatala has not guided us because this was/is the Dua we make in every salah .in other words if we say traditional salah is wrong then it automatically implies ALLAH subhnavtala has not guided us .is it not a challenge to ALLAH subhnavatala to make new proposals regarding salah such as there are no rakaa,no sujud,no ruku and what so everNow tell me Ben, am i talking sense
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)
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MATHEMATICAL PROOF THAT PRAYERS SHOULD ONLY BE WITH ALFATIHA ALONE
look here --> http//www.realquran.net/quran-articles/6-religious-questions/18-proof-that-prayers-should-only-be-with-alfatiha-alone
Is the number of salaat prayers 5 or 3?
look here ---> http//www.realquran.net/quran-articles/6-religious-questions/2-is-the-number-of-salaat-prayers-5-or-3
I think that these are the two strongest proofs from Quran-alone way
I don't believe that there is airplane ,car ,bus , truck or train mention in Quran
as well as there are 1,2,3 ...(numbers) or A,B,C,D....(English alphabets ) or ....(Tamil alphabets) mention in Quran
I don't want to know about them also
I believe that we cannot follow all Islamic traditions blindly as well as we cannot deny them all
and regarding prophecies in Ahadith i think Ben has given you a fitting replayHi,
.....
.........
.............
RED Do you also believe in Nostradamus, soothsayers, horoscopes, etc? -
I want to make few add-on to me OP
Here on FM , the only concept which disturbed me more than anything else is salah
If you make a review of my posts you will find about 80% of my posts will be regarding salahToday , i got one more evidence to confirm that the traditional salah is correct .
Lets read surah 96 from verse 9Verse 9609
Have you seen the one who forbids
Verse 9610A servant when he prays?
Verse 9611Have you seen if he is upon guidance
Verse 9612Or enjoins righteousness?
Verse 9613Have you seen if he denies and turns away -
Verse 9614Does he not know that Allah sees?
Verse 9615No! If he does not desist, We will surely drag him by the forelock -
Verse 9616A lying, sinning forelock.
Verse 9617Then let him call his associates;
Verse 9618We will call the angels of Hell.
Verse 9619No! Do not obey him. But prostrate and draw near .
there is sujood pl don't forget to makeAs you know ,I am pouring in lot of proofs and as a counter what i got is irrelevant sermons and a very very weak man made philosophical reason called traditional logical fallacy
Whatever your reasons might be but your nett effect is as per the verses 96.09 and 96.10
YOU ARE PREVENTING THE SLAVE OF ALLAH subhanvatala PERFORMING SALAH
During the time of our prophet ,it was due to torture and oppression but now as a modern version you are using the knowledge to twist and squeeze the words to get your desired meaning and thus you give the same effect of preventing a salve of ALLAH subhanvatala from praying .Of course you are not forcing anyone to follow you but persuasion is more lethal than torture .
If you read the full surah then you will find the consequence of those who prevent a salve of ALLAH from performing salahFinally...
So ....
repent and ...
No! Do not obey him. But prostrate and draw near
PL prostrate and draw yourself towards ALLAH subhanvatala
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PL prostrate and draw yourself towards ALLAH subhanvatala
i hope u got this information from secondary sources,,
to sajood , and its in 13 or 14 places according to historians lol
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If traditional salah was/is wrong then it means ALLAH subhanvatala has not guided us because this was/is the Dua we make in every salah.
Salaam Parvez,
I hope you will take this in a good way, I just want to make clear how I think about it.
You do some ritual movements and meanwhile also ask Allah to guide you.
Every day you repeat exactly the same ritual 5 times.
So what exactly do you expect from Allah?
He will almost for sure not send you a letter/email/etc on how you should do your prayer.
So not sure what kind of guidance for your prayer you are waiting for.Another point is that shia also have their ritual, it's totally different from you but they recite also al fatiha and thus ask for guidance, so how about them?
I did also this ritual prayer for many years, but not anymore, so for a lot of people I am 100% apostate for many reasons, while I believe with whole my heart that it is Allah who has guided me to something what is better. So what is your opinion am I guided or am I a apostate? What ever you think I really like to know the reason.
Another thing is that imho guidance from Allah has not so much to do on how one should do his prayer.
in other words if we say traditional salah is wrong then it automatically implies ALLAH subhnavtala has not guided us .
imho there is nothing wrong with the traditional prayer, you can still be guided.
is it not a challenge to ALLAH subhnavatala to make new proposals regarding salah such as there are no rakaa,no sujud,no ruku and what so ever
If your way of pray is indeed the correct one and is obliged to be followed then I kind of agree.
But you have to prove for me that your prayer is the correct one and also prove that it's obliged for me to follow your example of prayer.
Otherwise I can use the same argument against you. Yes I have read your OP and other posts on this but I read those verses a little bit different than you I guess.btw I never made any new proposals, maybe when I just joined the forum, but as far as I remember not recently.
I think there is not such code/ritual/whatever so that God will hear my prayer, I believe He knows my prayers/dua's/etc without any code/ritual.Now tell me Ben,am i talking sense
Red I understand your point of view hope, you understand mine handshake
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Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu
Let me start this post with a verse from quran
Verse 9.100
And the first forerunners among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct ? Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment.
As per this verse it is evident that the first (the forerunner or the best people of our Ummah ) are the companions( the Muhajireen and the Ansar) of our prophet and the people who followed the companions of our prophet .This verse clearly shows that the generation next to the generation of our prophet is equally pious as the companions of our prophet .in other words, the people of first two generations were the first forerunners .
now as per the following verses
Verse 5610And the forerunners, the forerunners -
Verse 5611Those are the ones brought near
Verse 5612In the Gardens of Pleasure,
Verse 5613A company of the former peoples
Verse 5614And a few of the later peoples,
It is very clear from these verses that the same are at large numbers from the former generation and they gradually decrease among the later generations
If quranist claim that they not only follow our prophet but also all the prophets mention in quran because they all were given the same message ,Then as per this ayah ,the people(َ who belong to the previous generation(who were following different prophets ) must be more than the people who lived during the time of our prophet which is obviously a wrong conclusion to make because ,people prior to the generation of our prophet we idolators and hence they cannot be ,so it is obvious to conclude that the period for starts from the prophetmoreover ,ALLAH subhanavtala clearly mention that we don't have to bother about the generation of our previous prophets
Verse 2140
Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, "Are you more knowing or is Allah?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do.
Verse 2141So we don't have to bother about how the performed salah or how they lived and what was ordained upon them
Finally , the mammoth concept of quranist is being challenged by very small ayah and which is very famous one too
Verse 01.06Guide us to the straight path -
every traditional Muslim who pray five times salah per day make this Dua at least 17 times in day .If we take ,quranist are the only rightly guided people ,than , the people who were making this Dua for the past 1200 hundred years were wrong ,or in other words ALLAH subhanvatal has not guided these people for the past 1200 years .Are the quranist are challenging ALLAH subhanavatal about his guidance?
The people after Adam and during Nuh's time was clearly living differently from our present day (for example who lives upto 900 years nowadays?). The peopl then also benefitted from having known Adam and his children given that Adam was taught all Names by Allah which even the Malaikat did not know.
The people after Nuh had the benefit of having a prophet/messenger amongst them. Thus they get 1st hand info. The stories in the Quran are mostly about challenges and how to face them, the Quran had left out success stories which may be residing with other prophets/messengers that are not named in the Quran - where most of these muslims were.
When it comes to our time, we have 1st hand info but most don't believe in the Quran. Those who believe on the 1st hand info relies on bad translations. Bad translation can translate to bad actions thus failure.
Who are we to challenge Allah's statement of facts? Guiding our lives by the Quran is already a difficult task. The only part of religion in the Quran is captured in surah Al-Ikhlas. The whole part of our existence is captured in Al-fatehah. Islam is a way of life not religion, religion is a faith believing in a deity. Those who passed this world are those who lived their lives in accordance to the Quran especially the part in not creating, worshipping and serving any other deity or god. Yes we may have 7 billion ppl in this world but the number achieved todate was just recently achieve in the last 20 years and we think or like to think there are many quranist out there but the fact is there are only a few and that too few may belong to this blog by looking at the topics on discussion todate, especially if the topics does not bring closer to heaven or further from hell whichever perspective one chooses.
You cant prove Allah wrong just by claiming being more quranist where in fact there are many more ignorance and fabrication than knowing despite being blessed with technology so widepsread even those far away can learn from a single source.
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The people after Adam and during Nuh's time was clearly living differently from our present day (for example who lives upto 900 years nowadays?). The peopl then also benefitted from having known Adam and his children given that Adam was taught all Names by Allah which even the Malaikat did not know.
The people after Nuh had the benefit of having a prophet/messenger amongst them. Thus they get 1st hand info. The stories in the Quran are mostly about challenges and how to face them, the Quran had left out success stories which may be residing with other prophets/messengers that are not named in the Quran - where most of these muslims were.
When it comes to our time, we have 1st hand info but most don't believe in the Quran. Those who believe on the 1st hand info relies on bad translations. Bad translation can translate to bad actions thus failure.
Who said people relied on bad translation ...do you have any proof for that or you are simply saying as your opinion
Who are we to challenge Allah's statement of facts? Guiding our lives by the Quran is already a difficult task. The only part of religion in the Quran is captured in surah Al-Ikhlas. The whole part of our existence is captured in Al-fatehah. Islam is a way of life not religion, religion is a faith believing in a deity. Those who passed this world are those who lived their lives in accordance to the Quran especially the part in not creating, worshipping and serving any other deity or god. Yes we may have 7 billion ppl in this world but the number achieved todate was just recently achieve in the last 20 years and we think or like to think there are many quranist out there but the fact is there are only a few and that too few may belong to this blog by looking at the topics on discussion todate, especially if the topics
does not bring closer to heaven or further from hell whichever perspective one chooses.You cant prove Allah wrong just by claiming being more quranist where in fact there are many more ignorance and fabrication than knowing despite being blessed with technology so widepsread even those far away can learn from a single source.
I think you did not understood my post pl read it once again .....i have given valid proofs for that
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i hope u got this information from secondary sources,,
to sajood , and its in 13 or 14 places according to historians lol
Imran .... )
I strongly recommend you to read the following articles
1.questions by Wakas (click)
2.Answers given by Mazhar Bhai (click)
Pl study them both without leaving anything .I assure you your precept regarding sujud will change after reading both the articles.it is not a easy to STUDY both of them but don't leave any of them unless you thoroughly understand the concept .believe me they are very interesting .once you understood than come up with your own opinion and join me in this thread(click)
It nearly took five days for me to study both them and it was mind blowing -
Salaam Parvez,
I hope you will take this in a good way, I just want to make clear how I think about it.
W/salam,Ben
feel free to tell whatever you have in your mind .i assure, i will never take anything in a wrong sense .I fully understand every one got his right to counsel his ideas and i will always respect everyone's ideology .I strongly believe , In debates like this win or lose doesn't matter because ,either way we will win .for Instance , if I win the argument then i am rightly guided and if lose the argument then i will be rightly guided .so either way there is a win )You do some ritual movements and meanwhile also ask Allah to guide you.
Every day you repeat exactly the same ritual 5 times.
So what exactly do you expect from Allah?
He will almost for sure not send you a letter/email/etc on how you should do your prayer.
So not sure what kind of guidance for your prayer you are waiting for.This is called believing in unseen .
If ALLAH subhanvatala says ...... I believe that sujood will take me near ALLAH subhanvtala .there is no second opinion whatsoever .In the same vein ,whenever Quran mention "salah" then it is traditional salah and it came to us with Quran .there is no second opinion here also because ,if ALLAH subhanvatala had not accepted the traditional salah then we would guided us through another prophet as he guided us with Quran .Another point is that shia also have their ritual, it's totally different from you but they recite also al fatiha and thus ask for guidance, so how about them?
Its a news to me ,Ben ....do they pray a different salah.Do they have three sujoods or two rukus or they pray 5 rakas for fajr .If your are talking about the content in the salah then you may be correct but the skeleton is the same . even in sunni they are few differences and those difference are attributed to the schools of thought (fiqh) which is man made
I did also this ritual prayer for many years, but not anymore, .........
There you are ,Ben
you were praying salah and then you changed.can you answer why did you change.did you read somewhere or you got a instinct and that instinct got incorporated with a like minded group
somewhere down the line something happened
can you enlighten me with that "something"
pl answer me this is a very important questionso for a lot of people I am 100% apostate for many reasons, while I believe with whole my heart that it is Allah who has guided me to something what is better. So what is your opinion am I guided or am I a apostate? What ever you think I really like to know the reason.
I am not here to pass on the verdict regarding apostate .For me ,any one who is a monotheist is Muslim immaterial of the book he follows and that is the message of quran .correct me if i am wrong
....Yes I have read your OP and other posts on this but I read those verses a little bit different than you I guess.
can you highlight the difference ,Ben
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W/salam,Ben
This is called believing in unseen .
Salaam Parvez,
Ok but what does that mean?
In the same vein ,whenever Quran mention "salah" then it is traditional salah and it came to us with Quran .there is no second opinion here also
This does not leave much room for a conversation...
because ,if ALLAH subhanvatala had not accepted the traditional salah then we would guided us through another prophet as he guided us with Quran.
I know that here on this forum a lot of people do a totally different salah then yours BUT they still believe in Mohammed and in The Quran.
How does that work for them?Its a news to me ,Ben ....do they pray a different salah.Do they have three sujoods or two rukus or they pray 5 rakas for fajr .If your are talking about the content in the salah then you may be correct but the skeleton is the same . even in sunni they are few differences and those difference are attributed to the schools of thought (fiqh) which is man made
Not exactly sure what you understand under skeleton but looks to me that praying 3 times or 5 times a day should be classified under skeleton.
There you are ,Ben
you were praying salah and then you changed.can you answer why did you change.did you read somewhere or you got a instinct and that instinct got incorporated with a like minded group
somewhere down the line something happened
can you enlighten me with that "something"
pl answer me this is a very important questionIt was a combination of instinct and research.
The traditional prayer never really made an sense to me even when I was a sunni, but I still did it as it is the second most important thing to do according to wise ones.
At some moment in my life I really had enough of the hadiths and traditions and I wanted to explore the quran myself.
I spend a lot of time searching for this traditional prayer in the quran as I could not believe that something so fundamental was not in the quran.
So my starting point was that I was wrong and the wise ones were right.
The more I began to study the quran the less remained of the traditional prayer.
At some point there was not much left over from the traditional prayer but it was still in some sense a ritual, but I had peace with it.So I kept doing this modified ritual for some time but I knew that this was still not it and there were still many questions that I had not yet solved for myself.
Then on a rainy Friday morning when I was meditating in a cave at mount Sina an angel with 600 wings appeared in the horizon.
He said "Stop lying to yourself" in a gentle way and he disappeared. I did not understood what he meant with that. And for a couple of days I was confused.
Then I went back to the holy cave at mount Sina, hoping to meet the angel again. Well the angel came again but this time he was not so kind anymore.
I asked what he meant last time.
Apparently that was not the most wise thing to do as he grabbed me and punched me with a mighty punch to the right side of the universe then to the left and finally back to earth.
He said "Do you understand now?"
I nodded, not because of fear of another punishment, but because I really understood.
He gave me then a handshake and then disappeared in the horizons.
Since that day I do not preform any ritual anymore and also a lot of other things changed.I am not here to pass on the verdict regarding apostate .For me ,any one who is a monotheist is Muslim immaterial of the book he follows and that is the message of quran .
Then why this topic and why did you ask this "Are the quranist challenging ALLAH subhanavatal about his guidance?"
can you highlight the difference ,Ben
I like to, but it's not only 1 difference, it will really take me a lot of time to comment/highlight on everything I disagreed with.
And I think that our understanding on this subject differs so much that a lot of times we will probably not understand each other.Salaam,
Bender -
Imran ....
I strongly recommend you to read the following articles
1.questions by Wakas (click)
2.Answers given by Mazhar Bhai (click)
Pl study them both without leaving anything .I assure you your precept regarding sujud will change after reading both the articles.it is not a easy to STUDY both of them but don't leave any of them unless you thoroughly understand the concept .believe me they are very interesting .once you understood than come up with your own opinion and join me in this thread(click)
It nearly took five days for me to study both them and it was mind blowingfive days are not enough i think, i m a student of quran from last 20 years first four years my sunni family just teach me arabic with a rod in hand a person call qari he himself dnt know the meanings, lol i was feeling at that time a mechanic is operating my surgery, so i refused to study becoz he just teach me to read arabic and i learn too read arabic in matter of days , due to gifted intelligence by God, so i finish it as quickly as i can as there was no motif of , i remember when i finish my family distribute sweet things, becoz in the system of million fools they try to make me understand its a duty of muslim to read quran once in the life so your duty done, hahaha
anyway i got busy in my hard studies oof science but when something is pending in my life i must fulllfill it as soon i cleared my high school i was waiting for the result mean while i start reading the translation of quran and five years i spend with traditional way , still i was thinking something is missing, now i m 21 busy life new bank job social life , a lot of more shit, i lost from my path of understaning, now i m 25 and this time i have to go back to 1200 years where there was no contracters or managers of Allah the boook of Allah in its original form and logic, and here i go and i see the other side of picture, and now i m 32 alhamdulliah atleast what i understand specially last five years of my life in uk in freedom speech country i learn a lot and same time five years back i join this forum, and here i feel amused atleast i was not the only one, still some people live onn this planet who use their brain instead of emotions,
i dnt want to tell you my life story but why i m tellling you alhamdullaih i know the science of sajood very well and the way you are arguing is totally traditional way which leads nowhere, if we have to go on that theory we have to do sujood on every single page. but real sujood is inside your will when you acceppted lord as master you lready sujooding him,
about salat, what you are talking about traditional way , sunii shia , deobandi, ahlehadith, qadianai all these five major sects have different way of salah, shall i choose what i like, or shall i go for the parents side tradition, or shall i leave it as there are lot of contradictions , and then i start reading about salat, the quraninc one , just i was bit confused about timings but this of my problem solve when i clearly see what real salat is, contact prayers are for us to refresh our system of faith like a contact mobile is to refresh the contacts with beloved, both having no wire, one charge by electricty one charged by water ,we called abolution, after that read from quran what you like make sure the lord of praises is only allah,and two clear contact pprayers are already mention and i beleive the complete process of this contact prayer is already recorded in quran from starting abolution to ending sujood. one need to look into it, see the article of salat in this forum may be it will help you.
and sunnis told me whatever you pray if you inner side is true and faithful to God u dnt need to worry even if u read shirk,
when they say this thing , how come they claim we need hadith to see salat, this is their first objection when hadith rejectors come infront of them, haha see how easy to beat falsehood infront of truth, they trap in their own logic , they are applying their salat by their own way and not following their own commands and ask questions about the thing which is totally devoted to God and human being,
hope you got it,
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So I kept doing this modified ritual for some time but I knew that this was still not it and there were still many questions that I had not yet solved for myself.
Then on a rainy Friday morning when I was meditating in a cave at mount Sina an angel with 600 wings appeared in the horizon.
He said "Stop lying to yourself" in a gentle way and he disappeared. I did not understood what he meant with that. And for a couple of days I was confused.
Then I went back to the holy cave at mount Sina, hoping to meet the angel again. Well the angel came again but this time he was not so kind anymore.
I asked what he meant last time.
Apparently that was not the most wise thing to do as he grabbed me and punched me with a mighty punch to the right side of the universe then to the left and finally back to earth.
He said "Do you understand now?"
I nodded, not because of fear of another punishment, but because I really understood.
He gave me then a handshake and then disappeared in the horizons.
Since that day I do not preform any ritual anymore and also a lot of other things changed.
Benderiis it true, lol
a dream or vision
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five days are not enough i think, i m a student of quran from last 20 years first four years my sunni family just teach me arabic with a rod in hand a person call qari he himself dnt know the meanings, lol i was feeling at that time a mechanic is operating my surgery, so i refused to study becoz he just teach me to read arabic and i learn too read arabic in matter of days , due to gifted intelligence by God, so i finish it as quickly as i can as there was no motif of , i remember when i finish my family distribute sweet things, becoz in the system of million fools they try to make me understand its a duty of muslim to read quran once in the life so your duty done, hahaha
anyway i got busy in my hard studies oof science but when something is pending in my life i must fulllfill it as soon i cleared my high school i was waiting for the result mean while i start reading the translation of quran and five years i spend with traditional way , still i was thinking something is missing, now i m 21 busy life new bank job social life , a lot of more shit, i lost from my path of understaning, now i m 25 and this time i have to go back to 1200 years where there was no contracters or managers of Allah the boook of Allah in its original form and logic, and here i go and i see the other side of picture, and now i m 32 alhamdulliah atleast what i understand specially last five years of my life in uk in freedom speech country i learn a lot and same time five years back i join this forum, and here i feel amused atleast i was not the only one, still some people live onn this planet who use their brain instead of emotions,
i dnt want to tell you my life story but why i m tellling you alhamdullaih i know the science of sajood very well and the way you are arguing is totally traditional way which leads nowhere, if we have to go on that theory we have to do sujood on every single page. but real sujood is inside your will when you acceppted lord as master you lready sujooding him,
about salat, what you are talking about traditional way , sunii shia , deobandi, ahlehadith, qadianai all these five major sects have different way of salah, shall i choose what i like, or shall i go for the parents side tradition, or shall i leave it as there are lot of contradictions , and then i start reading about salat, the quraninc one , just i was bit confused about timings but this of my problem solve when i clearly see what real salat is, contact prayers are for us to refresh our system of faith like a contact mobile is to refresh the contacts with beloved, both having no wire, one charge by electricty one charged by water ,we called abolution, after that read from quran what you like make sure the lord of praises is only allah,and two clear contact pprayers are already mention and i beleive the complete process of this contact prayer is already recorded in quran from starting abolution to ending sujood. one need to look into it, see the article of salat in this forum may be it will help you.
and sunnis told me whatever you pray if you inner side is true and faithful to God u dnt need to worry even if u read shirk,
when they say this thing , how come they claim we need hadith to see salat, this is their first objection when hadith rejectors come infront of them, haha see how easy to beat falsehood infront of truth, they trap in their own logic , they are applying their salat by their own way and not following their own commands and ask questions about the thing which is totally devoted to God and human being,
hope you got it,
Imran
If FMians run out of answers they start telling stories/sermons but you are bit different you are giving both -
Imran
If FMians run out of answers they start telling stories/sermons but you are bit different you are giving bothlol
did not get you , what you try to say can you please detail it, who are fmians
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Salaam Parvez,
Ok but what does that mean?If you think you are supposed to get a mail or latter from the almighty as a token of acceptance of your salah than you should stop believing in Quran as well .Did you ever got a mail from the almighty that this Quran is the same Quran given to prophet mohammed sallalhu alaiwa sallam
This does not leave much room for a conversation...
there is no room at all .as simple as it is
I know that here on this forum a lot of people do a totally different salah then yours BUT they still believe in Mohammed and in The Quran.
How does that work for them?Then why this topic and why did you ask this "Are the quranist challenging ALLAH subhanavatal about his guidance?"
I like to, but it's not only 1 difference, it will really take me a lot of time to comment/highlight on everything I disagreed with.
And I think that our understanding on this subject differs so much that a lot of times we will probably not understand each other.For all this question i have a single answer
as per my understanding there are two apparent messages in Quran
1.GOD's view
2.Abrogated version of all religionthe problem with FMians is that the mingle both the messages and try to incorporate the GOD's view with the abrogated versions
If you believe in GOD than no need to believe in Quran ,if you want to believe in Quran than you should also believe in prophet Mohammed sallahu alai wa salllam .Then on a rainy Friday morning when I was meditating in a cave at mount Sina an angel with 600 wings appeared in the horizon.
He said "Stop lying to yourself" in a gentle way and he disappeared. I did not understood what he meant with that. And for a couple of days I was confused.
Then I went back to the holy cave at mount Sina, hoping to meet the angel again. Well the angel came again but this time he was not so kind anymore.
I asked what he meant last time.
Apparently that was not the most wise thing to do as he grabbed me and punched me with a mighty punch to the right side of the universe then to the left and finally back to earth.
He said "Do you understand now?"
I nodded, not because of fear of another punishment, but because I really understood.
He gave me then a handshake and then disappeared in the horizons.
Since that day I do not preform any ritual anymore and also a lot of other things changed.Next time you see that angel pl send him to me .I am residing near the sea in Chennai .i don't have a cave because there are no mountains here, pl ask him adjust
pl dont forget to count the wings when you see him again and i will also count his wings first ,if he comes to me .i will not compromise anything less than 600 wings .if he got more wings no problem for me but he should have minimum of 600 wings .Nobody can cheat me with regard to wings muscle