The Self-Serving Verses of the Qur'an
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Rspect of course, but they are mentionned as already having chosen to addressed when they already have had to hold onn to the Prophet and the life of hereafter, in tht sense and in the formulation I see it as a spiritual timeless bond. Teh same as today if you hold allegeance to hte prophet it is not to the flesh and blood man but to what he means spiritually, so the mothers of the believers are also an spiritual bond if we want it.
Salaam
w salam agree,
but see some people specially historical one how they present the views of prophet wives.
peace
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w salam agree,
but see some people specially historical one how they present the views of prophet wives.
peace
Can you be more specfic?
I have learnt (at least a little) toforget about hearsay an stick to the Qur'an and what it doe not say. There has been lot of interest trying to extract things fromthe Qur'n when the Qur'an keeps silent on precisely those things. Iam sure there is a reason for the Qur'ans silences. God does nto forget, but why should God give too much string so we ca hang ourselves? Comingo to the prophet wives, I do find that when God ays they are the mothers of the believers He is saying tons, but we want not that ton we want some "gossip". Well God does not give us "gossip". Why should he. Why doesn't God say, that the women believers re like wives of the prophet. No, does not say that, but says that, but4 some have tried to make thee mothers of the believers a rule for all women when the Qur'an clearly states that they ar not like any other women, precisely because they ar restricted onn some clear rights tht assists all othr human beings, ad because they gave up those rights, they get a higher reward. And they are not mothers of male believers only to the exclusionn ofthe femle, nno are they mothers only of the females to the exclusion of the males. The fact spiritually we have a legacy of struggle for spiritual improvement, for choosing for God's sake.
Another legacy to be cquired throgh the mothers of the believers is freedom. We are ot given particulars of any of them. For all we know, from hte Qur'an, they could be fat, they might snnore, they might be ill tempered, they might be anything. Does nto matter what matters is they choe God and gghe Prophet. No conditions attached to attaining God's faavour as far as particulars are concerned. No woman has to be sweet or beautiful, enough that she chooses God, same with the male believers. It seems,from extra qura'nic sources that oe of the wives of those who chosee God, was a real witch in terms of character. So othig wrong with tht either. If somebody wants sweetness he can mmarry or keep to the company of some kilos of sugar or honey, or stevia.
Women set very much the tone of societies. By having he widows of the prophet to be austere what was robably averted at least for a time was a fully decadent society of luxuries and debauche in the first times of the spread of islam. Those times came all right but not so fast.
Salaam
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Unfortunately not, 'Muhammed' the word has not come up yet in the project. However, just like many other names, many Semitic names could both be used as a normal word and a name. (Muhammed) is not impossible to use as a standard word in a phrase.
Be well
Amenuelwelcome bravo rotfl yay
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welcome bravo rotfl yay
lol whats this
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Well at some point i started doubting the existance of Muhammad himself, take his name and make it a simple noum, and it makes sense. Anyway it is not somwthing I have been searching, not at all! Just an idea once crossed my mind. I was happy other person thinks like this, like a confirnarion I'm not crazy
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Regarding the Prohets wives, somone in this forum a while ago put forward the question of how strnge it is that he id not hve ny children after thee first wife Khadija nd whethr that did ot mean that those wives were ot such wiv but some kinnd of social ad religious partners. That is a point tht also has struck me often. Why he did not have any more children. Could be that he became sterile, but it also could be some other reason, may be political, quite understandable. People all through history have made peace agreements based on political marriages. May be also to give a respectable public image to somebody. In societies where political marriages are not only allowed but in fact promoted, to refusse onne may be in fact a slap o the face of the proposer.
Interesting. I did not know about how disrespectful it is to refuse a (political) marriage in some societies. I wonder sometimes about why he did not have children after his first wife too.
No woman would ever think of marrying a widow of the prophet. It is not said anywhere that they are mothers of the male believers only, so I do not think the meanainng you give it is the right one or has anything to do with it.
Women believers are no less daughters of the wives of the Prophet than male believers. And I do not think the wives were there to assist him like a Michelle and not doing anything else, as you describe. The wives of he prophet were independent women. They were bound to lead an exemplary life but not a dependent life (No wife of any prophet was mant to do that.) They were there by their choice of God and his Prophet, just like all the believers, and the fact that they were not to marry afterwards might have been by the very simple and obvious reason that, were it otherwise, there would have been very nasty fights for the "succession" of the prophet, whoever got his wife(ves) got the succession.
They were mothers of the believers not in order not marry any man afterwards, because then it would have said mothers of the male believers (beside, the non marriage after is already provided for in clear terms, not deviously, in another aya, so no need to double the injonction with such an n unclear device), but because of their choice of rennouncing worldly parading and money and choosing unworldly virtue and the giving up of luxury when after a life of poverty and struggle they could have indeed started to lead a life of luxury and appearances.
They were not serving a husband, they were serving God and his Prophet. This is very clearly stated in the Qur'an and not to be compared with Michelle Obama nor any other "first lady" nor confused with such figuring.
They were not "first ladies", they were believers and followers of God and his Prophet and asummed a very heavy duty of restrain when verybody else could live as they pleased as life got easier. They got double reward too by their Sustainer. They were not glorified servants of a husband but partners, or as has been handed down in muslim terminology, compannions, which, by the way, is indeed a very nice and warm term.
Bear in mind that it is clearly stated in the Qur'an that the Prophet is not a father of any personality nor is he by himself said to be the father of anybody, but on the other hand his wives are appointed by no less than God as mothers of the believers, the whole of all believers, no less. What does that say? What did they do that made them deservers of such a title, and what does it mean for each of us to be children of the wives of the prophet?
As far as I can ascertain, what it means is freedom of choice. Nothing was ever exacted from the wives of the Prophet except choose the life of this world or the life of the hereafter. They were not ordeered to smile to the people, nor to cook for the prophet, nor to look nice for th9 sake of the Prophet, nor to give a good image, nor to be subservient to him, nor to be deppendent of him. They were asked to choose the life of this world or the life of the hereafter. Those who wanted to leave the Prophet could do so with a good provision, those who stayed were to live thinking of the hereafter. Rennounce a life of glitter after having gone through a life of hardship.
They choose the hereafter, that is what it means to be children of the wives of the prophet, to choose the hereafter, not not to be able to marry any of them.
Salaam
bravo This makes sooooo much sense. I agree. Thank you.
my appology sister i did not notice it, may be due to your username, anyway peace and stay happy.
handshake
No problem brother. )
Does my username sound male? rotfl
I feel much better now, although I am still curious about 3327 and 2252-53. When 3327 is read with all its surrounding verses, it sounds like there is much war success and takeover of lands. I know obviously that those who were being fought weren't good people, but being as anti-war as I am it's hard to swallow that there was such a massive takeover of land in God's name as 3327 seems to imply.
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I agree. Thank you.
welcome sister
Does my username sound male? rotfl
no but its not female name either,lol hmm
I feel much better now, although I am still curious about 3327 and 2252-53. When 3327 is read with all its surrounding verses, it sounds like there is much war success and takeover of lands. I know obviously that those who were being fought weren't good people, but being as anti-war as I am it's hard to swallow that there was such a massive takeover of land in God's name as 3327 seems to imply.
when some body do curruption on land its the law of God to punish them and replace them with nice people, and moreover this land was also inherited to him and his tribe quresh and banuhashim . they take prophets rights from him, they started all this, our prophet just finsih it with a style,
i remeber i was reading the event of mekka conquring, when the biggest ever enemy abu suffiyan was under the sword of calpih omar, and clapih omer was about to kill him but muhammad spared his life,
and on another occassion of conquring mekka it was abu lahab, the muhammads uncle who also used to oppsose muhammad every sinngle time and he issued the order to kill muhammad as well, he was also capturred by muslim but he did not give up but he was shocked and embarrased, he was very proud no body even God can toucch him , but see what happened with him, a humilating defeat
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Nobody wants war but those who think that they ar goig to benefit by it. If sombody, without wanting it, is pushed into it. Once the war is won by those who did not want it, they still do not want it, but those who pushed for it in the first lace, might still ant it an push th winners into misery if they can. It is legitimte that those who do nto want war again take appropriate measures so that they ar enot pushed into another one.
Alo patience and digity have a limit. I know that i a war hell is loose and anything goes, usually, but some times there are peaces that are only o by name, and that in the society or te coutry in fact of pece there i only the name, the abuses and lawlessness ar just as bad as is there were war, only thing stay hung and there is nno forward nor backwards. There only so much of that tht4 ay peopple iss able to absorb.
Salaam
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yeh huruf thats why , sometimes war and personal ememity finish when you get into relationship,
see the the prophet wife ramla bint abu saffian was one of the great example, she was daughter of worst ever enemy of islam and at that time he was the commmanding leader of tribe quresh, and i think it was a positive approach to spread quran message through everybody.by peace not by sword.
peace
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welcome sister
no but its not female name either,lol hmm
when some body do curruption on land its the law of God to punish them and replace them with nice people, and moreover this land was also inherited to him and his tribe quresh and banuhashim . they take prophets rights from him, they started all this, our prophet just finsih it with a style,
i remeber i was reading the event of mekka conquring, when the biggest ever enemy abu suffiyan was under the sword of calpih omar, and clapih omer was about to kill him but muhammad spared his life,
and on another occassion of conquring mekka it was abu lahab, the muhammads uncle who also used to oppsose muhammad every sinngle time and he issued the order to kill muhammad as well, he was also capturred by muslim but he did not give up but he was shocked and embarrased, he was very proud no body even God can toucch him , but see what happened with him, a humilating defeat
That makes sense. Thank you.
Nobody wants war but those who think that they ar goig to benefit by it. If sombody, without wanting it, is pushed into it. Once the war is won by those who did not want it, they still do not want it, but those who pushed for it in the first lace, might still ant it an push th winners into misery if they can. It is legitimte that those who do nto want war again take appropriate measures so that they ar enot pushed into another one.
Alo patience and digity have a limit. I know that i a war hell is loose and anything goes, usually, but some times there are peaces that are only o by name, and that in the society or te coutry in fact of pece there i only the name, the abuses and lawlessness ar just as bad as is there were war, only thing stay hung and there is nno forward nor backwards. There only so much of that tht4 ay peopple iss able to absorb.
Salaam
This makes sense also. Thank you too.
Yes, that's true that people can only take so much. That's why there are revolutions. /
yeh huruf thats why , sometimes war and personal ememity finish when you get into relationship,
see the the prophet wife ramla bint abu saffian was one of the great example, she was daughter of worst ever enemy of islam and at that time he was the commmanding leader of tribe quresh, and i think it was a positive approach to spread quran message through everybody.by peace not by sword.
peace
Getting back to the political marriages topic I see.
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That makes sense. ) Thank you.
welcome
Getting back to the political marriages topic I see.
haha, not any more getting back to that topic,
actually now a days its common in people who are enemies from ages , but when they get married with eachother all the issues finish with both parties, sometimes , mistakes happen and people get killed in family matter, property matters, specially girls matters, so its quite helpful this way there will be no more blood shed in both parties, thats what my logic think , but everybody have diff thinking. but overall Allah wants us to live in peace and frdhship is better than enemity.
God bless you
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welcome
haha, not any more getting back to that topic,actually now a days its common in people who are enemies from ages , but when they get married with eachother all the issues finish with both parties, sometimes , mistakes happen and people get killed in family matter, property matters, specially girls matters, so its quite helpful this way there will be no more blood shed in both parties, thats what my logic think , but everybody have diff thinking. but overall Allah wants us to live in peace and frdhship is better than enemity.
God bless you
Where is this common?
And of course, as you said, peace is always what is wanted and what we should strive for.
4134 "Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort to the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend."
peace
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Where is this common?
And of course, as you said, peace is always what is wanted and what we should strive for.
4134 "Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort to the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend."
peace
red its common in third world countires where there is are lot of murders on the name of long lasting enemity tht goes from grandfather and continue untill the grandson murder, like pahkhtun in notrth western areas of paksitan , now they have strategy to get married with eacho other families and finish all this, its just a example , one of my frd had same case and now they are living happily.
some more verses
O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.
And if you punish, you shall inflict an equivalent punishment. But if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones.
chap 3 verse 103
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.peace
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Right. group
yay
group back at you!
red its common in third world countires where there is are lot of murders on the name of long lasting enemity tht goes from grandfather and continue untill the grandson murder, like pahkhtun in notrth western areas of paksitan , now they have strategy to get married with eacho other families and finish all this, its just a example , one of my frd had same case and now they are living happily.
o Wow.
some more verses
O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.
And if you punish, you shall inflict an equivalent punishment. But if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones.
chap 3 verse 103
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.peace
I was thinking about war and justice and violence today. I stumbled across some hateful anti-Islam posts on the Internet. It upset me and shook up my head. I hate violence, I really do. Then I go back and read these verses. I read the verses on peace. I read and remembered this verse
4149 "The human being does not tire in praying for good things. But if adversity touches him, he is disheartened, desperate!"
And all of a sudden I felt better. It reminds me that we are all responsible for ourselves as well as what we have done (or will do) for the world around us. We all should strive to get ourselves (and the world) out of bad situations. We have to shape ourselves.
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Yes, and we must not forget that this world will be over quickly and therefore the bad things of it if we attain toGod's Mercy will be like forgotten shadows, so tht all our questions s to its ill and suffering will also be a memory and a relief to see that they are no more sn tht nboody ill hve suffered in vain if they are grateful.
Salaam
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Assalamu Alaykum all,
Not sure if you have all ever heard of this before, but the Golden Ratio number in the Qur'an is mathematical proof of its astounding accuracy. Have you ever heard of this before?Based on mathematical correlations there is truly no possibility that any of these verses are misplaced. Just look at the math
This is the gist The Golden Ratio is the number 1.61803398...
this number is found all over nature and plays into the aesthetic aspects of beauty, from our faces and arm length, to the flowers and fresh pines we love to smell, all is aesthetically and mathematically placed as such.Onto the Qur'an which contains a total of 114 Surahs of varying lengths. Well if you add the Surah number like Al-Fatiah (1) and the number of verses in the surah (7) you will get 1 + 7 =8. 8 is the Surah Value. If you do this will all Surahs you will notice that some numbers repeat and some numbers do not.
Now, place all of the Surah values in an excel sheet and separate them in two columns, the ones with two or more of the same value and the ones with only one unique value. Now add all the numbers in each column.
You will get 7906 with the same value, and 4885 with a unique value. Do the math 7906/4885=1.61842375...This is an incredibly accurate book, not only morally, logically, linguistically, and practically, but also mathematically. Subhan'Allah.
I have copied here the Excel table I used to confirm these calculations. I urge others to do the same.
Verses Value Same Unique Total Same Total Unique Quranic Ratio Golden Ratio
1 7 8 73 8 7906 4885 1.61842375 1.61803398
2 286 288 73 56
3 200 203 77 62
4 176 180 77 65
5 120 125 80 66
6 165 171 80 67
7 206 213 82 74
8 75 83 82 75
9 129 138 83 78
10 109 119 83 81
11 123 134 88 85
12 111 123 88 86
13 43 56 95 90
14 52 66 95 93
15 99 114 95 97
16 128 144 100 98
17 111 128 100 99
18 110 128 101 104
19 98 117 101 112
20 135 155 102 117
21 112 133 102 121
22 78 100 102 122
23 118 141 103 123
24 64 88 103 126
25 77 102 103 127
26 227 253 106 130
27 93 120 106 132
28 88 116 106 134
29 69 98 106 138
30 60 90 106 141
31 34 65 107 144
32 30 62 107 152
33 73 106 107 155
34 54 88 109 171
35 45 80 109 180
36 83 119 110 203
37 182 219 110 213
38 88 126 110 219
39 75 114 110 253
40 85 125 110 288
41 54 95 111
42 53 95 111
43 89 132 111
44 59 103 113
45 37 82 113
46 35 81 113
47 38 85 114
48 29 77 114
49 18 67 114
50 45 95 114
51 60 111 114
52 49 101 115
53 62 115 115
54 55 109 115
55 78 133 115
56 96 152 116
57 29 86 116
58 22 80 116
59 24 83 118
60 13 73 118
61 14 75 119
62 11 73 119
63 11 74 119
64 18 82 119
65 12 77 120
66 12 78 120
67 30 97 120
68 52 120 125
69 52 121 125
70 44 114 125
71 28 99 128
72 28 100 128
73 20 93 133
74 56 130 133
75 40 115
76 31 107
77 50 127
78 40 118
79 46 125
80 42 122
81 29 110
82 19 101
83 36 119
84 25 109
85 22 107
86 17 103
87 19 106
88 26 114
89 30 119
90 20 110
91 15 106
92 21 113
93 11 104
94 8 102
95 8 103
96 19 115
97 5 102
98 8 106
99 8 107
100 11 111
101 11 112
102 8 110
103 3 106
104 9 113
105 5 110
106 4 110
107 7 114
108 3 111
109 6 115
110 3 113
111 5 116
112 4 116
113 5 118
114 6 120Again, I did not discover this, I am just passing along the information.
"And if you tried to count the favors of God , you could not enumerate them. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." - 1618 Golden Ratio Verse, as the Golden Ratio number is infinite; it can never be counted completely.
Salaam,
Clash
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Salam,
of course i am not talking about the free-minders, just saying...
Why are we always reading these verses with suspicion?? we have some verse and people all are always like "oh you see? you see? so Muhammad was "this" afterall!". We have some verse with no historical context, and we are supposing things and always ending up with the idea that Muhammad was allowed this and that. God wanted the Quran to be preserved with no historical context.
For example about Zayd. They say the prophet wanted Zayd's ex wife so Allah gave her to him. What is that, brothers? You know? that's the point why many women in the world don't accept Qur'an although they would believe in it. Stop.
We don't have the context. We don't know what happened in those concrete moments, and if God did not explain the context Himself in the Book is because
- It is not important
- Don't mess it up with hadiths, guys
- God might be testing exactly this how suspicious we are about His Book when we read it.
I have many theories for these verse, but the most I read the most I realize that God is actually making Muhammad to sacrifice No matter what he tries, HE IS NOT GOING TO HAVE DESCENDANTS. Muhammad's offspring ruling the religion is not in God's plan and God knows how importat lineage is for human beings. Islam won't be a lineage, it's a system for humanity. Muhammad won't have progeny and God cuts it off in every single way.
At some point I think the prohet thought of Zayd like the only thing he would have as a son in this life. After all he was a human being, he would have thought of him like a real son. Now God makes the prophet marry Zayd's ex wife. Nowhere it is said that Muhammad wanted her (what prophet is this lusting every single skirt who passed by him???). In those years this divine order would have mean clearly HE IS NOT YOUR SON SINCE YOU ARE GOING TO MARRY HIS EX WIFE. This is the strongest and loudest NO i have ever heard. No one is hurt but Muhammad himself.
The whole ummah back then and Humanity afterwards will know that Muhammad was not to leave a lineage. That's the point. The same about his other wifes.
Why do we have to read it like Muhammad wants the girl, God gives the girl. What God and what Prophet are these? Why can't we read it in other way attending to the fact that we have not the context, with a clean mind and keeping in mind that he is "the Compassive" and women were not objects for gift to any prophet, not back then and not today.
I am sure Muhammad should have had to struggle with this fact. A lot. Wasn't he a human being? God never tested His prophets? Of course God was testing Muhammad too!!! Maybe God tests His prophets more than He tests the rest of us.
Qur'an was written for women too. Why do we read it otherwise?
Huruf, sister, your post was inspiring as always.
Salam!
have an inspiring Friday!
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It is a good insight, virginia. On the hother hand there was Fatma, and although the Qur'an did not push for a hereditary thing nd she died young and did not seem to be anything but very pious and alien to worldly ambitions, her husband and children were indeed involved in some power struggle seemingly unwillingly. However, I do think that had there been a male descendant things would have been much, much worse and may be history much much worse too.
There is a lot of things that would seem symptomatic of a will to divest the world of much of the arbitrary male power in the world and the Qur'an also points that way. However the inability of humas to walk that walk seems to hve trumped, till now, any measures in that direction.
Salaam
In that sense