Are they challenging ALLAH subhanvatala ?
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Imran ....
I strongly recommend you to read the following articles
1.questions by Wakas (click)
2.Answers given by Mazhar Bhai (click)
Pl study them both without leaving anything .I assure you your precept regarding sujud will change after reading both the articles.it is not a easy to STUDY both of them but don't leave any of them unless you thoroughly understand the concept .believe me they are very interesting .once you understood than come up with your own opinion and join me in this thread(click)
It nearly took five days for me to study both them and it was mind blowingfive days are not enough i think, i m a student of quran from last 20 years first four years my sunni family just teach me arabic with a rod in hand a person call qari he himself dnt know the meanings, lol i was feeling at that time a mechanic is operating my surgery, so i refused to study becoz he just teach me to read arabic and i learn too read arabic in matter of days , due to gifted intelligence by God, so i finish it as quickly as i can as there was no motif of , i remember when i finish my family distribute sweet things, becoz in the system of million fools they try to make me understand its a duty of muslim to read quran once in the life so your duty done, hahaha
anyway i got busy in my hard studies oof science but when something is pending in my life i must fulllfill it as soon i cleared my high school i was waiting for the result mean while i start reading the translation of quran and five years i spend with traditional way , still i was thinking something is missing, now i m 21 busy life new bank job social life , a lot of more shit, i lost from my path of understaning, now i m 25 and this time i have to go back to 1200 years where there was no contracters or managers of Allah the boook of Allah in its original form and logic, and here i go and i see the other side of picture, and now i m 32 alhamdulliah atleast what i understand specially last five years of my life in uk in freedom speech country i learn a lot and same time five years back i join this forum, and here i feel amused atleast i was not the only one, still some people live onn this planet who use their brain instead of emotions,
i dnt want to tell you my life story but why i m tellling you alhamdullaih i know the science of sajood very well and the way you are arguing is totally traditional way which leads nowhere, if we have to go on that theory we have to do sujood on every single page. but real sujood is inside your will when you acceppted lord as master you lready sujooding him,
about salat, what you are talking about traditional way , sunii shia , deobandi, ahlehadith, qadianai all these five major sects have different way of salah, shall i choose what i like, or shall i go for the parents side tradition, or shall i leave it as there are lot of contradictions , and then i start reading about salat, the quraninc one , just i was bit confused about timings but this of my problem solve when i clearly see what real salat is, contact prayers are for us to refresh our system of faith like a contact mobile is to refresh the contacts with beloved, both having no wire, one charge by electricty one charged by water ,we called abolution, after that read from quran what you like make sure the lord of praises is only allah,and two clear contact pprayers are already mention and i beleive the complete process of this contact prayer is already recorded in quran from starting abolution to ending sujood. one need to look into it, see the article of salat in this forum may be it will help you.
and sunnis told me whatever you pray if you inner side is true and faithful to God u dnt need to worry even if u read shirk,
when they say this thing , how come they claim we need hadith to see salat, this is their first objection when hadith rejectors come infront of them, haha see how easy to beat falsehood infront of truth, they trap in their own logic , they are applying their salat by their own way and not following their own commands and ask questions about the thing which is totally devoted to God and human being,
hope you got it,
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So I kept doing this modified ritual for some time but I knew that this was still not it and there were still many questions that I had not yet solved for myself.
Then on a rainy Friday morning when I was meditating in a cave at mount Sina an angel with 600 wings appeared in the horizon.
He said "Stop lying to yourself" in a gentle way and he disappeared. I did not understood what he meant with that. And for a couple of days I was confused.
Then I went back to the holy cave at mount Sina, hoping to meet the angel again. Well the angel came again but this time he was not so kind anymore.
I asked what he meant last time.
Apparently that was not the most wise thing to do as he grabbed me and punched me with a mighty punch to the right side of the universe then to the left and finally back to earth.
He said "Do you understand now?"
I nodded, not because of fear of another punishment, but because I really understood.
He gave me then a handshake and then disappeared in the horizons.
Since that day I do not preform any ritual anymore and also a lot of other things changed.
Benderiis it true, lol
a dream or vision
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five days are not enough i think, i m a student of quran from last 20 years first four years my sunni family just teach me arabic with a rod in hand a person call qari he himself dnt know the meanings, lol i was feeling at that time a mechanic is operating my surgery, so i refused to study becoz he just teach me to read arabic and i learn too read arabic in matter of days , due to gifted intelligence by God, so i finish it as quickly as i can as there was no motif of , i remember when i finish my family distribute sweet things, becoz in the system of million fools they try to make me understand its a duty of muslim to read quran once in the life so your duty done, hahaha
anyway i got busy in my hard studies oof science but when something is pending in my life i must fulllfill it as soon i cleared my high school i was waiting for the result mean while i start reading the translation of quran and five years i spend with traditional way , still i was thinking something is missing, now i m 21 busy life new bank job social life , a lot of more shit, i lost from my path of understaning, now i m 25 and this time i have to go back to 1200 years where there was no contracters or managers of Allah the boook of Allah in its original form and logic, and here i go and i see the other side of picture, and now i m 32 alhamdulliah atleast what i understand specially last five years of my life in uk in freedom speech country i learn a lot and same time five years back i join this forum, and here i feel amused atleast i was not the only one, still some people live onn this planet who use their brain instead of emotions,
i dnt want to tell you my life story but why i m tellling you alhamdullaih i know the science of sajood very well and the way you are arguing is totally traditional way which leads nowhere, if we have to go on that theory we have to do sujood on every single page. but real sujood is inside your will when you acceppted lord as master you lready sujooding him,
about salat, what you are talking about traditional way , sunii shia , deobandi, ahlehadith, qadianai all these five major sects have different way of salah, shall i choose what i like, or shall i go for the parents side tradition, or shall i leave it as there are lot of contradictions , and then i start reading about salat, the quraninc one , just i was bit confused about timings but this of my problem solve when i clearly see what real salat is, contact prayers are for us to refresh our system of faith like a contact mobile is to refresh the contacts with beloved, both having no wire, one charge by electricty one charged by water ,we called abolution, after that read from quran what you like make sure the lord of praises is only allah,and two clear contact pprayers are already mention and i beleive the complete process of this contact prayer is already recorded in quran from starting abolution to ending sujood. one need to look into it, see the article of salat in this forum may be it will help you.
and sunnis told me whatever you pray if you inner side is true and faithful to God u dnt need to worry even if u read shirk,
when they say this thing , how come they claim we need hadith to see salat, this is their first objection when hadith rejectors come infront of them, haha see how easy to beat falsehood infront of truth, they trap in their own logic , they are applying their salat by their own way and not following their own commands and ask questions about the thing which is totally devoted to God and human being,
hope you got it,
Imran
If FMians run out of answers they start telling stories/sermons but you are bit different you are giving both -
Imran
If FMians run out of answers they start telling stories/sermons but you are bit different you are giving bothlol
did not get you , what you try to say can you please detail it, who are fmians
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Salaam Parvez,
Ok but what does that mean?If you think you are supposed to get a mail or latter from the almighty as a token of acceptance of your salah than you should stop believing in Quran as well .Did you ever got a mail from the almighty that this Quran is the same Quran given to prophet mohammed sallalhu alaiwa sallam
This does not leave much room for a conversation...
there is no room at all .as simple as it is
I know that here on this forum a lot of people do a totally different salah then yours BUT they still believe in Mohammed and in The Quran.
How does that work for them?Then why this topic and why did you ask this "Are the quranist challenging ALLAH subhanavatal about his guidance?"
I like to, but it's not only 1 difference, it will really take me a lot of time to comment/highlight on everything I disagreed with.
And I think that our understanding on this subject differs so much that a lot of times we will probably not understand each other.For all this question i have a single answer
as per my understanding there are two apparent messages in Quran
1.GOD's view
2.Abrogated version of all religionthe problem with FMians is that the mingle both the messages and try to incorporate the GOD's view with the abrogated versions
If you believe in GOD than no need to believe in Quran ,if you want to believe in Quran than you should also believe in prophet Mohammed sallahu alai wa salllam .Then on a rainy Friday morning when I was meditating in a cave at mount Sina an angel with 600 wings appeared in the horizon.
He said "Stop lying to yourself" in a gentle way and he disappeared. I did not understood what he meant with that. And for a couple of days I was confused.
Then I went back to the holy cave at mount Sina, hoping to meet the angel again. Well the angel came again but this time he was not so kind anymore.
I asked what he meant last time.
Apparently that was not the most wise thing to do as he grabbed me and punched me with a mighty punch to the right side of the universe then to the left and finally back to earth.
He said "Do you understand now?"
I nodded, not because of fear of another punishment, but because I really understood.
He gave me then a handshake and then disappeared in the horizons.
Since that day I do not preform any ritual anymore and also a lot of other things changed.Next time you see that angel pl send him to me .I am residing near the sea in Chennai .i don't have a cave because there are no mountains here, pl ask him adjust
pl dont forget to count the wings when you see him again and i will also count his wings first ,if he comes to me .i will not compromise anything less than 600 wings .if he got more wings no problem for me but he should have minimum of 600 wings .Nobody can cheat me with regard to wings muscle -
lol
did not get you , what you try to say can you please detail it, who are fmians
People who belong to FM .i am also included in this
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awww ,, so you are trying to defend secondary sources , i already told you as a history its ok to accept it but as a divne law only Allah take the responsibilty of quran to accept and judge anything,
the 14 places of sajood come from secondary sources in the light of quran Allah did not give any instruction to do physical sujood on these 14 occassions, if you have any evidence from quran i will be the first one who accpet it, and if you have any proof from secondary sources then sorry for that i cant digest it, i really dnt know who authorised them to write these tales, niether Allah nor prophet , these are just biography books example of these books you can say wikipedia of today , hope u got it
safe
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awww ,, so you are trying to defend secondary sources , i already told you as a history its ok to accept it but as a divne law only Allah take the responsibilty of quran to accept and judge anything,
I am not defending the secondary issue,Imran .The problem is ,no one seems to understand me here .To make the sujood you don't need ahadith ,just feel the meaning of the ayah and if you say you are among the one who strongly believe "sameen wa ataana" ,than you should make sujood
the 14 places of sajood come from secondary sources in the light of quran Allah did not give any instruction to do physical sujood on these 14 occassions, if you have any evidence from quran i will be the first one who accpet it, and if you have any proof from secondary sources then sorry for that i cant digest it, i really dnt know who authorised them to write these tales, niether Allah nor prophet , these are just biography books example of these books you can say wikipedia of today , hope u got it
safe
Thank GOD you did not listed ahadith.I thought you will be listing ahadith regarding camel urine or milking hadith etc .I think did not understood the question i posed on you .It was not sujood but it was about "is there any thing called physical sujood "once again check my post here
BTW , this is general question for the posters here including you ,imran
we are on the third page and this is 25th replay .note one thing ,imran have you seen any of the poster argued about the verses i highlighted in my OP
do you know why ,Imran
because you know i am correct so everyone of just making stories -
@ pervez i can only say God bless you,
but again what my claim was and waht i asked from you you failed to give the answer, i dnt mmind doing physcial sajood on 14 diff occassion but i just need evidence to do anything which is reffered to God,
i think we are agree to disagree rest of the things what u highlighted i never made that things my subject with you go read through all my posts in this thread from start.
peace
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@ pervez i can only say God bless you,
but again what my claim was and waht i asked from you you failed to give the answer, i dnt mmind doing physcial sajood on 14 diff occassion but i just need evidence to do anything which is reffered to God,
i think we are agree to disagree rest of the things what u highlighted i never made that things my subject with you go read through all my posts in this thread from start.
peace
i checked ,all your post are empty
Just explain me that you are not going against the verse that i mentioned in in my OP
i want the proof from the ayah not empty post like the above . -
i checked ,all your post are empty
Just explain me that you are not going against the verse that i mentioned in in my OP
i want the proof from the ayah not empty post like the above .proof regarding what
again u are running to show me evidence from quran, where Allah say to do sujjod physically on these 14 ocassions?
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I don't believe that there is airplane ,car ,bus , truck or train mention in Quran
I can bring you the evidence that
television, ozone, neutron, proton, Halley comet, hemoglobine and DNA are mentioned in the Qu'ran. Open a new thread because I do not want to make off-topic.
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I can bring you the evidence that
television, ozone, neutron, proton, Halley comet, hemoglobine and DNA are mentioned in the Qu'ran. Open a new thread because I do not want to make off-topic.
How ?
by say 5+3 = 8 implies such and such surah
then 3+2 = 5 such and such verse
or then saying it is the year of innovation of such and such thing ....lol rotfl
Yeah with your weird logic of numerology .I don't need these proofs to believe that Quran is from ALLAH subhanvatala .i am personally witnessing those things every day of my life .even today i got the proof regarding ALLAH subahnavtala.so keep your silly proves with yourself -
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again u are running to show me evidence from quran, where Allah say to do sujjod physically on these 14 ocassions?Few examples are
1.If you believe then obey ALLAH subhanvatala at least while you are reading these verses and make sujood
Note this is offtopic because we not discussing these things here .if you want to make stories you can use these here and that was everybody is doing hereThis is our topic and i know you will never talk about these verses
proof regarding what
just explain your understanding of the verses in my OP
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Anyone who believes in God and works righteousness will have there reward with their lord.
It does not matter what prophet anyone follows if any.
Is course once we hear the truth or instruction from God revealed by God via his messengers we are required to live by it and also to make no distinction among any of his messengers.
It seems a bit unclear what point exactly you are trying to make, but God's religion is about a personal relationship with our Lord and our duties and obligations to him more than anything else. Making any human being the focus of our religion is idolatry.
Peace
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Anyone who believes in God and works righteousness will have there reward with their lord.
It does not matter what prophet anyone follows if any.
Is course once we hear the truth or instruction from God revealed by God via his messengers we are required to live by it and also to make no distinction among any of his messengers.
It seems a bit unclear what point exactly you are trying to make, but God's religion is about a personal relationship with our Lord and our duties and obligations to him more than anything else. Making any human being the focus of our religion is idolatry.
Peace
Good sermon ,Timo
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@lostINtheWORLD
I apologies if i hurt you in anyway with my previous post
be cool
handshake -
@lostINtheWORLD
I apologies if i hurt you in anyway with my previous post
be cool )
handshakeI don't like hypocrisy. You come here with your pious "subhanvatala" but fail to acknowledge that the One who could create the entire Universe did not leave some ''fingerprints'' in His Book?
The land-sea ratio and many others miracles are real if you believe in Allah. If you don't believe in these miracles so why believing in Allah?
However, apologies accepted handshake
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If you think you are supposed to get a mail or latter from the almighty as a token of acceptance of your salah than you should stop believing in Quran as well .Did you ever got a mail from the almighty that this Quran is the same Quran given to prophet mohammed sallalhu alaiwa sallam
Salaam Parvez,
You said "This is called believing in unseen ."
then I asked "Ok but what does that mean?"Your answer above is not an answer to my question.
there is no room at all .as simple as it is
So you are claiming that the word "sallaat" in the quran is equal to the traditional ritual prayer that Parvez Mustaq is performing 5 times a day?
Or did I misunderstood you?For all this question i have a single answer
as per my understanding there are two apparent messages in Quran
1.GOD's view
2.Abrogated version of all religionthe problem with FMians is that the mingle both the messages and try to incorporate the GOD's view with the abrogated versions
What is exactly God's view of the quran? And is Parvez understanding of the quran equal to "GOD's view"?
I also have no clue what "Abrogated version of all religion" means, can you give an example please?If you believe in GOD than no need to believe in Quran,
If something (quran or whatever) speaks the truth, then I must believe in it, not doing this is equal to not believing in Allah's huda. At least that is what is inspired to me.
if you want to believe in Quran than you should also believe in prophet Mohammed sallahu alai wa salllam .
Believe in him like how? That he existed or that he showed us how to do a ritual prayer?
Next time you see that angel pl send him to me .I am residing near the sea in Chennai .i don't have a cave because there are no mountains here, pl ask him adjust
pl dont forget to count the wings when you see him again and i will also count his wings first ,if he comes to me .i will not compromise anything less than 600 wings .if he got more wings no problem for me but he should have minimum of 600 wings .Nobody can cheat me with regard to wings muscleRED unfortunately I do not have such powers.
Just a tip, when he decides to appear to you then you should not pay attention to his wings those are only to show off, you should pay attention to his message.