IDOL WORSHIPPING IS THE NEW ISLAM
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Loulou,
What I was saying was asking you whether it is sane to read something that goes against basic logic.
And you are wrong about multiple things in your post. The word islam does not mean submission and furthermore submitting your intelligence to something unsound would be very unwise, would it not?
Finally, remember that God created you. Whatever intelligence, logic, reason and rhyme you posses is engineered by God. You can never surpass him in any way, shape, or form. Our brains are so small and limited, we will never ever comprehend fully God's revelations to mankind. Not even close! God therefore made his messages really simple and easy for mankind. Good vs Evil. Heaven vs Hell. Earth and Sky. Night and Day. Sun and Moon. Punishment vs Rewards. I mean, God even references a simple little mosquito in one of the verses!
As long as you speak of brains and the physical then sure you will never be prosperous.
I agree that the sectarian interpretation of Quran is simple because it comes from simpletons too.
Anyway, I suppose that you are not receptive nor interested in expanding your horizons so I will let you dwell in your little realm. I would however advise you to open your mind to what it is you put your faith in and also reflect on what I wrote. But if this is the god you prefer so go with it.
Be well
Amenuel -
Assalamualaikum Bro
I may agree with you regarding kissing of black stone( Alahamddulliah , i completed my hajj last year without kissing the black stone ) but how circling around kaba will ever become idol worship .can you elaborate your explanation ,broWa alaikum Salaam brother,
Kaaba is nothing but another stone I don't think Allah ask us to do such things and He feels proud or something.
When I did my I got a chance to rest my face on the wall of Kaaba and as soon as I did so I felt that I am doing sajda in front of a stone idol in a hindu temple. MaazAllah! That was so horrible. May Allah forgive me for that.After I came back Allah showed me that hajj has nothing to do with this rituals. Hajj means debate. You can study the topic of Ibrahim where you can see the derivatives of the word hajj is used many times including the story of king.
Brother have you ever wonder why 7 times circling around the building same as hindus circle around fire 7 times during marriage and circle around tulsi tree 7 times early in the morning?
Why there is still a moon and a sun made of gold inside the building kaaba? Why there are so many pots hanging inside the kaaba, the same pots that hindu saints still use today?
That 7 times circling around it cannot be verified from alQuraan.
If you study this matter, inshaAllah you will find more and more proofs that this is not hajj.
9107 and 9108 clarifies that we are not allowed to stand in such masjids. Everyone believes that there were 360 idols inside the kaaba and it was removed at the time of victory. But still we are not allowed to stand in such masjids but we are only allowed to stand on those masjids whose foundation was on taqwa from day one.
May Allah protect us from all types of shirk and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Assalamualaikum Bro
I may agree with you regarding kissing of black stone( Alahamddulliah , i completed my hajj last year without kissing the black stone ) but how circling around kaba will ever become idol worship .can you elaborate your explanation ,broHi Parvez,
So what do you think parvez, those people who are doing this kissing are they challenging Allah or are you challenging Allah?
Rituals are just rituals, I strongly believe that we are not going to be questioned about our rituals by Allah as long as they are not harming.
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i've mentioned holy books / theories, which cited Quran, Gospel, Bible among the example.. that also include any other book which one considered as flawless / holy, Harry Potter anyone?
Or idea.. Flat Earth, 7 layer of heaven, judgement day, heaven and hell.I add more
- Holy Nationality (Swedish, American, Syrian, Egyptian, Palestine etc..)
- Holy Ethnicities (Arabs, Jewish, White, Black, Spanish / Latin)
- Holy Football Club (Spurs, City, MU, Liverpool)
And i'm truly truly expecting this to come in as future form of idol..
- Holy Software.. A computer software written by God.
- Holy eBook.. Finally god "sent down" something in pdf format..
The common attitude of "idolators" was best described by this fellow..
If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-RaziYes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that..See? Don't trust Quran or any other holy book.. trust God..
God speaks to you all directly through your conscience.. listened to it very carefully..
When you see something from any sources (including "holy book" which is not inline with your own conscience..
Always side with your own conscience.. don't ignore it..Jafar, you wrote "Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that.."But, it's not idolatry if I consider and believe the Quran is by God and only God. And, I am NOT worshiping the Quran like an OBJECT. The Quran is God's ~GUIDANCE~ for mankind. Without the Quran or Torah, how would you know to worship ONE GOD and not multiple Gods? How would you know that the Moon isn't GOD for example? How would you even know that Idolatry is unacceptable and very bad?
I believe the Quran is from God so it's not idolatry to me to seek guidance from it. The Quran is understandably idolatry to you because you believe human beings wrote it. I can't help you there if that's you truly believe. To each his own. It's called faith for a reason. Either you believe the Quran is from God or you don't. There are several verses in the Quran where God is challenging those like you who don't believe that the Quran is from God
Say If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another. (Quran 178
Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful. (Quran 1113)
And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful. (Quran 223)
May Peace Be Upon You,
Lana -)
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Peace Loulou.
The majority of humans are pursuing "Idolworship". GOD Alone is the last thing on our minds.
Most humans, have been setting a precedent of misjudging, underestimating and mishandling God's words sent to them.
The majority rejects logic and guidance, and the majority of those who choose faith fail to handle the word of God with truthfulness and integrity.
Mishandling the word of God, temporarily or permanently, is a failure to uphold God's absolute authority. Thus, it is a form of idol worship.
So "Idolworship "is in multiples of things we do, it is not just in "Kissing a stone".
We should all reflect. Are we putting GOD Alone as priority?
It was a consequence of their violating the covenant that we condemned them, and we caused their hearts to become hardened. Consequently, they took the words out of context, and disregarded some of the commandments given to them. You will continue to witness betrayal from them, excepting a few of them. You shall pardon them, and disregard them. God loves those who are benevolent
May the Lord forgive and guide those who will repent and reflect on what they are doing.
Each individual is only responsible for their own neck. Each one of us needs to correct and work on ourselves . We need to ask the Lord to "cleanse " us from idolworship and pray for those who are misledYou shall all follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; do not follow any idols besides Him. Rarely do you take heed.
Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord, there is no god except He, and disregard the idol worshipers
Do not be angry, do not despair. Trust in your Lord to help and save the true believers from idolworship.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply, I really appreciate it!! -)
God Bless You,
-Lana
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Jafar, you wrote "Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that.."But, it's not idolatry if I consider and believe the Quran is by God and only God. And, I am NOT worshiping the Quran like an OBJECT. The Quran is God's ~GUIDANCE~ for mankind. Without the Quran or Torah, how would you know to worship ONE GOD and not multiple Gods? How would you know that the Moon isn't GOD for example? How would you even know that Idolatry is unacceptable and very bad?
I believe the Quran is from God so it's not idolatry to me to seek guidance from it. The Quran is understandably idolatry to you because you believe human beings wrote it. I can't help you there if that's you truly believe. To each his own. It's called faith for a reason. Either you believe the Quran is from God or you don't. There are several verses in the Quran where God is challenging those like you who don't believe that the Quran is from God
?Say ?If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.?? (Quran 178
?Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ?Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.? (Quran 1113)
?And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.? (Quran 223)
May Peace Be Upon You,
Lana -)
Peace Lana,
Jafar is right and you missed his point.
Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that..You got this but you didn't follow the next line which is..
See? Don't trust Quran or any other holy book.. trust God..
This part needs to understand. If you trust anyone or lets say alQuraan for guidance, it cannot guide you without Allah. But if you trust Allah for guidance it is easy for you to guide without alQuraan. As He guided Ibrahim when he said moon is my Rabb.
Without Allah nothing and with Allah everything is there what you want.
That's all ) -
Wa alaikum Salaam brother,
Kaaba is nothing but another stone I don't think Allah ask us to do such things and He feels proud or something.
When I did my I got a chance to rest my face on the wall of Kaaba and as soon as I did so I felt that I am doing sajda in front of a stone idol in a hindu temple. MaazAllah! That was so horrible. May Allah forgive me for that.What about the verse about the hajj and tawaf in the Quran .You may be correct about touching of Kaba ,even i felt that .i was doint that initially till this indecent happened
After I came back Allah showed me that hajj has nothing to do with this rituals. Hajj means debate. You can study the topic of Ibrahim where you can see the derivatives of the word hajj is used many times including the story of king.
the meanings that are derived here for the most important words are not correct .for example ,the word SJD was not properly explained by Wakas .so i believe ,your claim about hajj being "debate" may also have the same fate as SJD in the hands of Wakas
anyway as per the root= Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target, aim at, repair, undertake, repaired/betook himself to or towards a person / place / object of veneration/respect/honour, went/visit frequently/repeatedly, pilgrimage.
Overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.
Refrain/abstain.hajja vb. (1)
perf. act. 2158
n.vb. 2189, 2196, 2196, 2196, 2197, 2197, 2197, 397, 93, 2227
pcple. act. 919hijaj n.f. (pl. of hijjah) 2827
hujjah n.f. 2150, 4165, 683, 6149, 4215, 4216, 4525
hajja vb. (3)
perf. act. 2258, 320, 361, 366, 680
impf. act. 276, 2139, 365, 366, 373, 680, 4216tahajja vb. (6) impf. act. 4047
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 149, 150, 151 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7jjthese are the meanings even i have cheked with Mazhar Bhai's roots
Brother have you ever wonder why 7 times circling around the building same as hindus circle around fire 7 times during marriage and circle around tulsi tree 7 times early in the morning?
Why there is still a moon and a sun made of gold inside the building kaaba? Why there are so many pots hanging inside the kaaba, the same pots that hindu saints still use today?
That 7 times circling around it cannot be verified from alQuraan.
If you study this matter, inshaAllah you will find more and more proofs that this is not hajj.
these things are not surprising to me , khan
i think you might not heard about irumudi of Hindu's which is equivalent of ihram .you might be aware of the stories of babies by the river in other scriptures too.since we have the same GOD in all religions and the author of all scriptures was the same author of Quran these resemblances are bound to happen .only difference is, islam being the most modern and the latest religion all the rituals are original where as the rituals of other religion were adulterated
moreover ,for every nation ALLAH subhanavatal says he had given a http//quranx.com/Content/Images/ArabicWords/6d616e73616b616e.png= Nun-Siin-Kaf = to lead a devout life, be pious, be godly, worship/serve God, sacrifice, slaughter an animal by way of sacrifice, act of worship/servitude, performers/observers of such acts, rite of devotion, to wash and purify, to apply oneself.
nasaka vb. (I)
n. vb. 2196, 6162
pcple. act. 2267,mansak n.m. (pl. manasik) 2128, 2200, 2234, 2267.
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 8, pages 286 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=nsk
so these resemblances will make my faith strong in Islam
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Hi Parvez,
So what do you think parvez, those people who are doing this kissing are they challenging Allah or are you challenging Allah?
of course without any doubt they are challenging ALLAH subhanvatal
Rituals are just rituals, I strongly believe that we are not going to be questioned about our rituals by Allah as long as they are not harming.
Do you have proof for your claim or it is your wild speculation .
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i've mentioned holy books / theories, which cited Quran, Gospel, Bible among the example.. that also include any other book which one considered as flawless / holy, Harry Potter anyone?
Or idea.. Flat Earth, 7 layer of heaven, judgement day, heaven and hell.I add more
- Holy Nationality (Swedish, American, Syrian, Egyptian, Palestine etc..)
- Holy Ethnicities (Arabs, Jewish, White, Black, Spanish / Latin)
- Holy Football Club (Spurs, City, MU, Liverpool)
And i'm truly truly expecting this to come in as future form of idol..
- Holy Software.. A computer software written by God.
- Holy eBook.. Finally god "sent down" something in pdf format..
What I wanted to say is that it is not fair to point only to the Abrahamic religions, we all have our holy things.
RED These are indeed in the top 5 (my top 5) of the most evil holy things.
God speaks to you all directly through your conscience.. listened to it very carefully..
When you see something from any sources (including "holy book" which is not inline with your own conscience..
Always side with your own conscience.. don't ignore it..These are very wise words handshake
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of course without any doubt they are challenging ALLAH subhanvatal
No they are not, they think that Allah ordered them to do that, like millions before them and with them.
Just like how you believe that your spinning around the cube and your ritual prayer is a command of Allah and I think you are not challenging Allah with that.Do you have proof for your claim or it is your wild speculation .
I said I strongly believe, these means that I do not need to prove it
But yes I have solid evidence that I am right.
Bender evidence
- If I were to judge people on their rituals (with MY rituals as criterion) than you all (whole world) are misguided.
Quranic evidence
5482015
2281
330
I think this is enough for the moment.
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Loulou,
What I was saying was asking you whether it is sane to read something that goes against basic logic.
And you are wrong about multiple things in your post. The word islam does not mean submission and furthermore submitting your intelligence to something unsound would be very unwise, would it not?
As long as you speak of brains and the physical then sure you will never be prosperous.
I agree that the sectarian interpretation of Quran is simple because it comes from simpletons too.
Anyway, I suppose that you are not receptive nor interested in expanding your horizons so I will let you dwell in your little realm. I would however advise you to open your mind to what it is you put your faith in and also reflect on what I wrote. But if this is the god you prefer so go with it.
Be well
AmenuelIslam does in fact mean submission, more accurately SURRENDER. Some people like myself are willing to surrender themselves 100% to God and his guidance, the Quran. It is from the Quran I learned of the existence of God. It is from the Quran I learned of worshipping only one God and not multiple. It is from the Quran, I learned about how this world was created and the purpose behind it. The Quran is God's true guidance for all of mankind and to God and his guidance, I surrender fully. I welcome judgment day with an open heart. God knows best how to deal with mankind since he created them.
Peace Be Upon You,
-Loulou
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Peace Lana,
Jafar is right and you missed his point.
You got this but you didn't follow the next line which is..
This part needs to understand. If you trust anyone or lets say alQuraan for guidance, it cannot guide you without Allah. But if you trust Allah for guidance it is easy for you to guide without alQuraan. As He guided Ibrahim when he said moon is my Rabb.
Without Allah nothing and with Allah everything is there what you want.
That's allJafar is not right. In your belief, Jafar is right. However, I believe Jafar is wrong. I believe the Quran is a true message from God, so how can I separate God from his own message? Your suggestion will not work for me.
Peace,
-Loulou
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Jafar is not right. In your belief, Jafar is right. However, I believe Jafar is wrong. I believe the Quran is a true message from God, so how can I separate God from his own message? Your suggestion will not work for me.
Peace,
-Loulou
Peace Loulou,
Of course you can separate God from His (physical) message. By opening yourself up to Him, you can receive your own message and your own guidance. You don't need a specific book to do this. Qur'an is good and I like to read it myself, but it's not the end-all of faith. "islam" existed before the Qur'an's physical compilation as it is today. Remember that.
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What about the verse about the hajj and tawaf in the Quran .You may be correct about touching of Kaba ,even i felt that .i was doint that initially till this indecent happened the meanings that are derived here for the most important words are not correct .for example ,the word SJD was not properly explained by Wakas .so i believe ,your claim about hajj being "debate" may also have the same fate as SJD in the hands of Wakas
Peace brother,
That is OK if you find it difficult to accept what I said. But I suggest you to hold Allah firmly and be sincere to Him and to yourself, then follow whatever He guides you to, inshaAllah.
Because what I believe and understand from Allah is actually for my own self and not for others. Just sharing to see if it matches )
anyway as per the root
these are the meanings even i have cheked with Mazhar Bhai's rootsYou quote says
Overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.Finally disagreeing with anyone or everyone does not matter. But not following what Allah is guides us to matters a lot.
You can check my article on SJD if you are interested.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Jafar is not right. In your belief, Jafar is right. However, I believe Jafar is wrong. I believe the Quran is a true message from God, so how can I separate God from his own message? Your suggestion will not work for me.
Peace,
-Loulou
Peace,
It's OK Loulou
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Peace Loulou,
Of course you can separate God from His (physical) message. By opening yourself up to Him, you can receive your own message and your own guidance. You don't need a specific book to do this. Qur'an is good and I like to read it myself, but it's not the end-all of faith. "islam" existed before the Qur'an's physical compilation as it is today. Remember that.
Peace Comrox,
I agree handshake
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Those in the video are simply disbelievers...
Every sectarian that follows tradition, ahadith, imam, sheiks or anyone (other than Allah alone) blindly is a disbeliever in the Quranic definition of disbeliever.I would lean towards calling them hypocrites but many probably never embraced true Islam to begin with and see it as an inherited culture rather than Conscious State.
Also people (like many in this forum) that pretend to follow Quran alone and then hide behind western ideals and try to infuse neo-progressive ideals that support homosexuality, transgenderism, that deny supernatural and many apparent Signs of Allah on this earth etc... are also hypocrites.
But, everyone who does not follow what was revealed to Muhammad and submit their face to God Alone being sincere to Him in the Deen and denies the Book, the Signs, The Absoluteness and Oneness and Dominion of Allah is a polytheist/pagan
These are atheists, christians, jews, buddhists, hindus, you name it..
There is absolute logical evidence for my assertions so do not oppose meO Loulou, are you equally disgusted by all the above idolaters or is it only Arab polytheists that tick you off enough to start a post?
"How horrible these people must have been before Quran"
What about the pagans of today?! Christians that worship the virgin Mary and Jesus and claim the atrocity about Allah? What about Masonic organizations that actually commit heinous global crimes in the name of their satanic idols? What about Jews that deny two Messengers (Isa and Muhammad) and claimed the lie about killing Isa son of Mary? What about Hindus that bow down to statues and worship them with more veneration than kissing a black stone? etc...If you were to sum up the Western civilization system of beliefs there would be a 99% polytheist result
Mostly some denomination of Christians
Others Judaic
Others Cabalistic/Masonic
atheist
agnostic
acual devil worshippersDo they not enrage you as much or do they have to be Arabs or Middle-easterns?
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Peace Loulou, HP_TECH, do not be distressed by the disbelievers they only expose
themselves to you, nothing more. Actually I myself find them boring because they offer
nothing useful to the discussion except disbelief.47/30 And if We willed, We could show them to you, and you would know them by
their mark; but you will surely know them by the tone of speech (posting). And Allah
knows your deeds.There has always been and will always be those who are astray.
Therefore ignore those who say negative things or minimize
Quran and the prophet. They have nothing to add to your growth
except that they only confirm what Allah says in his book about them.peace
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Peace Loulou, HP_TECH, do not be distressed by the disbelievers they only expose
themselves to you, nothing more. Actually I myself find them boring because they offer
nothing useful to the discussion except disbelief.47/30 And if We willed, We could show them to you, and you would know them by
their mark; but you will surely know them by the tone of speech (posting). And Allah
knows your deeds.There has always been and will always be those who are astray.
Therefore ignore those who say negative things or minimize
Quran and the prophet. They have nothing to add to your growth
except that they only confirm what Allah says in his book about them.peace
Peace hawk99,
I am not distressed I am making an example of Loulou's possible Arab-pagan hatred/phobia which is very akin to Islamophobia and arab phobic bigotry that is going on in the world today and that many other users on this forum are also guilty of.
There is this fear and despise for the Arabs that in light of all the other atrocities committed by other ethnic, religious, cultural groups in the world in the past and TODAY just seems ridiculous and VERY selective.
I just want to make sure she and all the rest know that they are approaching the limit of bigotry if they are not as equally enraged by all the other pagans and disbelievers including the leading pagan Western(mainly caucasian driven)culture.
That's all brother. -
Peace hawk99,
I am not distressed I am making an example of Loulou's possible Arab-pagan hatred/phobia which is very akin to Islamophobia and arab phobic bigotry that is going on in the world today and that many other users on this forum are also guilty of.
There is this fear and despise for the Arabs that in light of all the other atrocities committed by other ethnic, religious, cultural groups in the world in the past and TODAY just seems ridiculous and VERY selective.
I just want to make sure she and all the rest know that they are approaching the limit of bigotry if they are not as equally enraged by all the other pagans and disbelievers including the leading pagan Western(mainly caucasian driven)culture.
That's all brother.I agree with you wholeheartedly
peace