The devil as soulmate and sexual allies

Comrox

Qareen and his tribes as sexual allies

O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best (to conceal your private parts). That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember. O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he removed your parents from Paradise, stripping them of their clothing to show them their private parts. Indeed, he sees you(r private parts), he and his tribe, from where you do not see them (private parts). Indeed, we have made the devils (sexual) allies to those who do not believe.

Does the context supposedly to support the conclusion that "we have made the devils allies to those who do not believe"? ie. sexual allies and private parts.

Thank you Comrox.

I would say no.

Free Minds translation of verses 726 (the translation you're using with the parenthesis makes it messy to dissect) "O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your bodies, and feathers; and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from the signs of God, perhaps they will remember."

Verse 727 "O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe."

These are two different verses here. The first half of 726 ("O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your bodies, and feathers&quot is talking about physical clothing. The second half ("and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from the signs of God, perhaps they will remember&quot is talking about mental clothing, or a healthy mental mindset.

Remember the definition of righteousness from verse 2177 "Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous."

So from this verse we learn that a righteous person will

believe in God, the Last Day, the angels, the "Book", and the prophets
give money to relatives, orphans, the needy, the wayfarer, and those who ask
free slaves
uphold salaat
contribute towards purification
keep their pledges
patient throughout hardship

So if we go back to 726, the "Children of Adam" are supposed to wear the "garment of righteousness" as the best piece of "clothing."

Now, looking at 727. I'm going to also dissect this verse and present it in two parts. First half "O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies." Personally, I see no difference between "bodies" and "private parts." The translations both point to the reveal of one thing nakedness. If you are familiar with the biblical story, Adam and Eve were living in paradise contently until they were tempted by the devil and thrown out. They never wore any clothing - Adam and Eve were just suddenly aware of their own nakedness. The devil had shown them the horror of their bare bodies.

Second half of 727 "He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe." We can assume from the continuation of "he" in the earlier part of the verse that "he" refers to the devil. Now, from here you need to think outside of the "sexual allies" interpretation. God says that he and his tribe see us from everywhere. You don't have to interpret that as seeing our private parts, as your translator did, but you can interpret it as the devil/"Satan" being able to see us in our darkest moments, when we're the weakest, when we're tempted to sin, when we're not displaying righteous behavior (as I went over earlier), etc.

All in all, I think the physical nakedness aspect (of the traditional Adam and Eve story) isn't that important. IMO, it's not the message of the story. It's not about nakedness. Personally, I believe it's about mental exposure. Human exposure. Having to face a dark truth. Having to face when we're not righteous. Seeing ourselves for who we really are (or seeing ourselves in one moment for who we are in that specific moment), even when who we really are may be horrifying or ugly. That's what the devil does. He exposes that side of ourselves for us to see, even when as God says, we do not.

Or, a simpler and more literal interpretation could be that the devil is always able to see us (and see where we're going in life with the choices we make perhaps), but we are never able to know when he and his tribe are coming for us. They can and will expect us, but we can never expect them.

The devil does something else to us as well. He tempts us into committing more sin and transgression (this is evident from "We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe&quot. Think of your friends. You hang out and do stuff with your friends. Surely you don't have sexual relations with them, right? But you would consider them your allies, I'm sure. Being allies with devils is no different. The devils would consider you your friend, and as your friend they would want you to do stuff with them such as committing sins, doing evil acts, etc.

Hope that makes sense. Hoping I didn't confuse you more.

Peace!

virginia

sometimes i think, what conndition adam and mate had when they were not expelled from garden.(eden)

invisible beings, or a body without lust, or it was all the plan of Allah , btw due to the knowledge of unseed Allah already knew it would gona happen. so was it a strategy of God to make a plan like this,

again if adam did not eat the fruit or whatever was there, how can we all come here , as we know we all accepted the trust to come here on this life.

any ideas friends.

In the questionable Apocrypha Apocalypse of Moses, when Seth (son of Eve and Adam) is arguing and fighting with the beast, even the beast tells at some point "And for that (Eve's eating from the forviden tree and therefore the fall) even we have changed nature".

huruf

her were already the bashar, humans, on whom, blew of His spirit to turn them into naas, the human beings with God's conscience and free will.

So they were already on earth, not etereal creatures. They were created in successive stages from earth or mud. the Qur'an uses several words and expressions to say that we were created from mud, o it is open to study to ascertain what it was exactly.
Many times the Qur'an says Tin, some times Tin laazib, sometimes SaalSaal kalfakhkhafar, sometimes SaalSaal min Hamain masnoon, sometimes sulaala min maa'in maheen, sometimes min turaab...

I suspect that this variation in the explanation of how we were created should give pointers to research and study.

But what is most certain from ht eQur'an is that there were already species of human (bashar) on whom he blew of His spirit to turn them human.

Salaam

virginia

I always thought of this like the moment in history when neanderthal and homines sapientes got mixed untill neanderthal vanished. I think Adam is the brand new homo sapiens, he seems to be the first monotheist human being and the first one to live in cities and not as a nomadic group (God allows him and teaches him agriculture and stockbreeding and tools, etc.). He is the first who "thinks" (Abraham wondering about the divinity of moon and sun and stars untill he figures out that there is only one god). For many years homo sapiens lived side by side with neanderthal which never developed and just extinguished. It is not known if both could have conceived a mixed race. The point is that neanderthal never wondered and was a nomadic polytheist.
The fall is the beguining of the free will, the moment when intelect is born. It's a gift from Him (are we worthy?). If you interpret it this way devils and nudity is "non intelect". God is giving us free will therefore intelligence (nudity is not intelligence), and my point is the word "righteous" here is about the "people who think" which are called to read the Book all along. This is what Abraham did, he read the universe and found out that there was one god. Neanderthals could be the "devil allies".

huruf

It seems that present humanity has neanderthal genes in a small proportion about 3% something like that.

A Moroccan friend who is very well versed in Qur'an and Arabic put forward the hypothesis that the famous tree i a genealogicl tree that the bashar were told not to come near other species of bashar. I immediately thought of the neanderthal particularly after reading the boooks of Jean Aauel who gives such a good vision of the time when the cro-magnon and the neanderthal hared the earth, ad eve relates events of mixing and how dangerous it was for women cro-magnon due to the volume of the neanderthal heads which turned almost always to be deadly for the woman cro-magnon. So the danger of death aproaching that tree was certain, and if it had gone on on large scale it would probably have been issueless for the cro-magnon.

I amalso surprised y the insistence that it was becoming consciou of their nudity, bodily nudity, what their coming to that tree brought about. The Qur'an names the rivate parts of men and women farj, but when it speaks about the garden and the events it does not ever say farj or the plural furuj, so it may well be another kind of exposing, like the vulnerability of the adam people in case it got mixed with the "tree" they were warned about.

We are used to narrations going on like in a chort succession. But hte Qur'an stretches may times narrations for years and more, and hey do not happen all in an afternoon, though we may get a rendition in a few lines. Thoe few lines all over the Qur'an regarding our origins may in fact have spanned centuries or millennia, but we are given a short, very short version of it as of many other things.

Salaam

virginia

It seems that present humanity has neanderthal genes in a small proportion about 3% something like that.

A Moroccan friend who is very well versed in Qur'an and Arabic put forward the hypothesis that the famous tree i a genealogicl tree that the bashar were told not to come near other species of bashar. I immediately thought of the neanderthal particularly after reading the boooks of Jean Aauel who gives such a good vision of the time when the cro-magnon and the neanderthal hared the earth, ad eve relates events of mixing and how dangerous it was for women cro-magnon due to the volume of the neanderthal heads which turned almost always to be deadly for the woman cro-magnon. So the danger of death aproaching that tree was certain, and if it had gone on on large scale it would probably have been issueless for the cro-magnon.

I amalso surprised y the insistence that it was becoming consciou of their nudity, bodily nudity, what their coming to that tree brought about. The Qur'an names the rivate parts of men and women farj, but when it speaks about the garden and the events it does not ever say farj or the plural furuj, so it may well be another kind of exposing, like the vulnerability of the adam people in case it got mixed with the "tree" they were warned about.

We are used to narrations going on like in a chort succession. But hte Qur'an stretches may times narrations for years and more, and hey do not happen all in an afternoon, though we may get a rendition in a few lines. Thoe few lines all over the Qur'an regarding our origins may in fact have spanned centuries or millennia, but we are given a short, very short version of it as of many other things.

Salaam

Is there a paper for this hypothesis? I'd love to take a look!

huruf

You mean for the "tree" being a humanoid species?

Salaam

virginia

You mean for the "tree" being a humanoid species?

Salaam

Salam Huruf

Yes. The linking between both Neanderthal and Sapientes is clear, but this about the tree symbolizing the humanoid species is new to me, never heard of it and I would like to take a look.

By the way, isn't it just POETRY in all senses that Adam's story is basically saying that intelect and the so called common sense are monotheism?

Fritz

Thank you Comrox.

Can you explain how the devils "afflict" human beings ?

Free Minds translation of verses 726 (the translation you're using with the parenthesis makes it messy to dissect) "O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your bodies, and feathers; and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from the signs of God, perhaps they will remember."

Verse 727 "O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe."

Does this verse support the word "afflict" in Verse 727?

And whoever turns away from the remembrance of the Almighty, We appoint a devil to be his associate (Qareen). And they hinder from the path, but they think they are guided! (4336-37)

huruf

Salam, hermana Huruf

Yes. The linking between both Neanderthal and Sapientes is clear, but this about the tree symbolizing the humanoid species is new to me, never heard of it and I would like to take a look.

By the way, isn't it just POETRY in all senses that Adam's story is basically saying that intelect and the so called common sense are monotheism?

No, it is not only a tree. If we are speaking of humanoids, or humans of different strains, each would be a linneage, that is a tree, so that is why there is that tree, which it occurred to me that could be the eanderthal or for the matter any other which represented a risk for the human sepecies. The neanderthal I ued as an exmple of what the matter could hve been. It could alo have been something else, like diseases which could have ruined the adamic strain.Only the texts of Auel seemed to offer a clear case of danger for our strain. In spite fo it, some neanderthal did get inot our make up, and may be that was enough and there had been already prviously ome mixing and then in the garden it was cut off because of the evident dangers.

No, I do not think my friend has written any paper, and I think he read it somewhere. Personally I am far mmor convinced with some explainable thing, common snese, than fantastic magical stuff or the like, like is the usual redition of the events in the garden.

It is clear that we will not get a faithful and detailed relation of the whole thing, because we are too far removed to get a plausible picture of everything, but just on that point I feel more satisfied with an explanation which is intelligible.

Salaam

The_Guided_One

I sometimes think about Adam and Eve and i can not understand, if all humans are from them, how did this happen? If Adam and Eve had children than those children when getting older and mature would have a kind of marriage and offspring. But If they were the only ones on earth than this would be incest. And that is forbidden by Allah, so there must have been other species or am i wrong?

About Heaven and the tree, we can discuss many years, is there somebody who has done a research on this? I would like to read it. I have heard stories that the earth was heaven and after the incident with the tree, there was no Heaven on Earth and ?ejtan came to misguide people on earth.Still i can not understand what Eve did and what kind of trick shejtan did do, that they revealed their bodies to each other. Where they not aware of their sexual lust and did they had sex and is that why it is written in Quran that they suddenly were aware of their bodies? We know what sex is, but did they knew it, maybe not and maybe shejtan showed them their lust to each other.

The tree could mean other people,maybe they had sex with an other specie? I also can not understand why there are so many different kind of people in the world if we are from only Adam and Eve that wuld we not look the same?

I do not know much about this, i just wonder how it all happened and what these surahs really tell us.

Comrox

Thank you Comrox.

Can you explain how the devils "afflict" human beings ?

Free Minds translation of verses 726 (the translation you're using with the parenthesis makes it messy to dissect) "O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your bodies, and feathers; and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from the signs of God, perhaps they will remember."

Verse 727 "O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe."

I personally don't believe that "the devils" are actual cunning beings who are looking to corrupt humanity, so that belief of mine is going to influence my response from the start. Rather, I see "the devils" as the Id (the part of our personality that drives natural human desires, aggression, our sexual need, etc. - see here for more info if you're not familiar with what Freud came up with in his psyche model https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Id)

That being said, let's look at the definition of "afflict" it means "to cause pain or suffering to (someone or something)" (source http//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/afflict)

So now we know that these devils, whatever you interpret them to be, cause humans pain and suffering. A few examples of this suffering, and what the devil does

"O people, eat from the earth's products all that is lawful and good, and do not follow the steps of Satan; he is your most ardent enemy. He only commands you to commit evil and vice, and to say about God what you do not know."

"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications."

"Some He guided, while others are committed to straying. They have taken the devils as their masters, instead of God, yet they believe that they are guided."

See the following link to understand more about what "Satan" and the devils do according to the Qur'an http//submission.org/friday_Satan_in_Quran.html

Does this verse support the word "afflict" in Verse 727?

And whoever turns away from the remembrance of the Almighty, We appoint a devil to be his associate (Qareen). And they hinder from the path, but they think they are guided! (4336-37)

Yes, I believe so. All these verses about the devils and what they do must be considered as a whole to understand their nature and impact on humankind.

Hope this helped you again.

peace

Fritz

"afflict" then "removes from them their garments to show them their bodies" .

O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise;

he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies .

Could it be the reason that Allah prohibits marriages between believers and the disbelievers, ie. the devils as sexual allies ?

And do not marry the female polytheists until they believe; for a believing servant is better than a polytheist, even if she is pleasing to you. And do not give in marriage to the male polytheists until they believe; for a believing servant is better than a polytheist, even if he is pleasing you. These invite to the Fire, while God is inviting to Paradise and forgiveness by His consent. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.

The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress , she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.

Thank you Comrox.

huruf

Too much sex in viions of the garden and the expulsion from it.

In the garden the adam who are being expelled is not just a couple, dressed or undressed, but many people. Look at aya 24

(Allah) said "Get ye down. Enemies of each other on earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."

This "get down" and all the formulation that follows is in plural, not dual but plural and the number of people must be such that there can be sets of number of enemies on each sides.

Other than that, this whole scene is contrivedly sexed up. Why is everything made as if there was a question of nudity and sex in it?

In one translation it is said that God bestowed raiment upon them to cover their shame, but in fact it is misleading, what it says is

Oh children of adam we descended (anzalna, that is, the verb used to transmit revelation) the clothing to cover your bad deeds and make you look good, and the best of clothings is God-consciousness.

This God-consciousness is not obviously a matter of dress, but as always in the case of revelation, is a mater of morals and conscience, something which would make this people different from previous bashar without the ruh.

At not time it is said that their sexual organs were showing.

If you look at the occurrence of l-b-s, as verb or name in the Qur'an you will see that it is not necessarily material dressing or clothing, but it means also to cover things, obscure matters, confuse, non physical images self, the kind of person we appear to be.

God revealed (anzala) to those people who started to be human the elements of morals, of conscience, that is, their libaas, their garment.

"Traditionalists" are too taken up in the classical sexed-up narration of the garden as derived from the bible which is like a horror fairy tale. But if we manage to read the Qur'an forgetting all that previous conditioning, we may realise that what it tells is something different from that and rather logicaland consistent with the whole of Qur'an.

Salaam

Comrox

"afflict" then "removes from them their garments to show them their bodies" .

Could it be the reason that Allah prohibits marriages between believers and the disbelievers, ie. the devils as sexual allies ?

Thank you Comrox.

You're welcome Fritz. )

I don't see why you're associating disbelievers with sexual devils?

Fritz

Because God doesn't use circular reasoning and states truth based on omniscience.

I believe here God make equal marriage to adultery, and prohibit the believers from such marriages.

The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress , she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.

It is either marriage or adultery.

and it is not only mental exposure, but body exposure.

If it is about "mental exposure",

Personally, I believe it's about mental exposure. Human exposure.

Then why Allah prohibiting marriages between believers and disbelievers? body exposure.

Perhaps there are more than mental exposure?

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfdcx7TZabg&t=0m31s

Fritz

Maybe this is happening to those who ignore the revelations of Allah.

https//c5.staticflickr.com/8/7105/26910960364_8df3ffcda5_o.jpg

A curse from Allah.

Do those who commit sins think they can fool Us? Terrible is their opinion!

Believers

By your Lord, they will not be believers until they make you (Quran) judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their souls any animosity for what you have decided, and they will yield completely.

Disbelievers

None dispute in the revelations of God except those who have rejected. So do not be impressed by their influence in the land.

Those who rejected God and His messengers , and they want to make a separation between God and His messengers , and they say "We believe in some and reject some !" And they desire to take a path in-between . These are the true rejecters.

Is this possible?

The_Guided_One