THE 1 MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION

imrankhawaja

I am not a liar, but you showed that you are a liar,

rotfl where ,, exactly,,

proof of your lie ,, you call me pagan.. do u know the defination of pagan or shall i teach you this thing as well and then i will send you my id documents . calling a pagan to muslim is lie. and you are 100 % lier.. without any doubt .

The_Guided_One

rotfl where ,, exactly,,

proof of your lie ,, you call me pagan.. do u know the defination of pagan or shall i teach you this thing as well and then i will send you my id documents . calling a pagan to muslim is lie. and you are 100 % lier.. without any doubt .

You are a joke, please stop posting on my thread, i started a nice topic to find answers and at this moment i think ramadan is not in december and not when full moon occurs. I already posted why i think this way. I do not need your posts on my thread, because you say that on 21-22 december ramadan starts. I already explained that this is Saturnalia a satanic holiday. If i was on your place and this information came to me than i would investigate it and i would reject this date as the start of ramadan. You still want to believe what you want to believe, so stop posting and go on else where.

You ask me where i showed you that you are a liar, my answer is when you said it is 17 december and not 21-22 december. You lied also when you said that satanic rituals on this date have no legal or official history. Also you answer a question with a question, that is very rude. Also you did not answer any question i asked you and i did answer your questions. I really would like to stop talking to you, because of this. We are not on the same page. Also you do not have to teach me anything, i know enough to expose you. Also you claimed in previous posts that you are a student and not a scholar, why do you not want to learn if this true. Stop calling me a liar, this is not nice, i have given proof of things i have claimed. Why did you not show the date of Saturnalia if it is true what you say? Why did you not google satanic holidays? Why do you keep on posting and pushing your point of view, while you know that i know the truth and that i will not accept this date as the start of ramadan? How can i see you as Muslim and not as pagan after you presented your views about ramadan?

I do not know if you are misguided and believes this or that you do this for an other reason, all i know is that 21-22 december is a satanic holiday and it can not be start of ramadan.

imrankhawaja

You are a joke, please stop posting on my thread,

dnt worry i know you are afraid this is my last post in which i do some more jokes (truths)..

. I do not need your posts on my thread, because you say that on 21-22 december ramadan starts.

can you tell me where did i say... all the time i was telling you to keep study things from these sources .. including quran and non quranic views.. then decide in the light of these facts...

I already explained that this is Saturnalia a satanic holiday. If i was on your place and this information came to me than i would investigate it and i would reject this date as the start of ramadan. You still want to believe what you want to believe, so stop posting and go on else where.

yeh i did investigate it .. and here is a link of my investigation..

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia

see you want me to stop speaking truth about your information

You ask me where i showed you that you are a liar, my answer is when you said it is 17 december and not 21-22 december. You lied also when you said that satanic rituals on this date have no legal or official history.

i already in my post told you the events of 21st december and 22nd december,, here one more time..
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_21
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_22

Also you answer a question with a question, that is very rude. Also you did not answer any question i asked you and i did answer your questions. I really would like to stop talking to you, because of this.

oh my God you really want to run away but you forget the rule of lie.. for one lie u have to cover up with 100 lies,, i think thats what happening with you right now..

, i have given proof of things i have claimed.

really..where. the entering in your house from front gate thats your proof

Why did you not google satanic holidays?

i already did..

Why do you keep on posting and pushing your point of view,

lol no i did not.. not even in any single post.. and i did not claim anything its you who is claiming..

How can i see you as Muslim and not as pagan after you presented your views about ramadan?

so if someone have different views than somebody else, its mean he is pagan.. thats what you want to tell us..

or do you have a knowledge of unseen and you can differentiate between beleiver and pagan by this,,

see how afraid you are.. my advise is to you do astagfar.. about your lies... becoz the base of lies are very weak...

wrkmmn

Peace the guided one

the articles recommended to you by Scribbler are very clear. I read them fast, but to what I saw, they are correct to my understanding of when to start and stop the fast. The perverted Muslims stop fast at sunset, but let them be, for the blind there is no difference between day and night.

Now, according to my understanding, the month begins when the new moon is sighted, and I stop fasting until I sight the new moon of the next month.
2185The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it;
2189They ask you, , about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.

Now, the calendar I follow Is the one used in the middle east, because it is impossible to know otherwise the current month. Many conjecture that Ramadan means The hottest month, but to me is just a name like December. Furthermore, even if it used to be the hottest month in mecca, in pre-Islamic era, the pagans were accused of intercalateing/inserting months to make important dates fall on the most convenient time for them. See, the unbeliever reformist are again doing the same.

The lunar calendar moves throughout the Solar year/seasons, so hopefully we will live to see a ramadan in winter, just as the jewish, who also follow also lunar calendar, have their religious holidays moving throughout the solar year/seasons.

regarding your understanding of 2189...enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed. only God know the true meaning.
Mahamad Assad comentary said this166 I.e., true piety does not consis t in approaching questions of faith through a "back door", as it were- that is,'through mere observance of the forms and periods set for the performance of various religious duties (cf. 2177). However important these forms and time-limits may be in themselves, they do not fulfil their real purpose unless every act is approached through its spiritual "front door", that is, through God-consciousness.

My opinion is that it says not to be like the hypocrites that do things believing that what is important is to be inside, so they try to fool God and the believers, but they only fool themselves. To me, the way you get in, is more important than just to be inside.

I do not see Allah saying i should not smoke when fasting, what do you think? Tradition says that we do not smoke when fasting or is it also from Quran?

One cannot forbid what Allah does not, that is a great sin. If you consider cigarettes intoxicating stuff/adictive, then though not forbidden, there is a strong warning to abstain from them, so you should abstain from them ever. However, if you consider them food, then you only abtain from them during ramadan.

Pray/Ask Only God for understanding, and take nobody else as teacher besides him, for nobody can teach/give you The Truth.

May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.

The_Guided_One

Brother Imaran,

you get your information from wikipedia LOL didn't i tell you to watch the youtube videos, i have put the link in my previous posts, maybe than you would understand what i am telling you, maybe than we could have a normal discussion.

You provided a link http//free-minds.org/night-decree and the night of decree is on Saturnalia, you are right i made a mistake it is not the claim from you that it is the beginning of ramadan, i understand when you send me this link that you think the same as the writer of this article or else you would not send me this link. Do you think that the most important night for Muslims is on 21-22 december?

And why i do not want you on my thread is because you keep on defending Saturnalia and it makes me sick, and you try to misguide Muslims telling them that a satanic celebration is the night of decree, shame on you!

http//www.theopenscroll.com/hosting/SatanicCalendar.htm

Dec 22 Winter Solstice
(Sabbat Festival)
(Feast Day) orgies oral, anal, vaginal any age (male or female, human or animal)

http//www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienciareal/cienciareal20.htm

Winter Solstice - 13 weeks - Minor sabbath
a. December 21 - Yule
b. December 21-22 - Winter Solstice/Yule. One of the Illuminati's Human Sacrifice Nights
c. February 1 and 2 - Candlemas and Imbolg, a.k.a. Groundhog's Day. One of the Illuminati's Human Sacrifice Nights
d. February 14 - Valentine's Day
Winter Solstice - 13 weeks
a. December 21- 22

Yule - When the sun begins its northward trek in the sky, and days began to grow longer again, pagans celebrated the Winter Solstice by burning the Yule log.

Since the sun had reversed itself and was now rising in the sky, pagans believed this was a sign that the human sacrifices carried out in Samhain (Halloween) had been accepted by the gods.

We continue to sing
"Deck the halls with boughs of holly ... troll the ancient Yuletide carol ... See the blazing Yule before us. Fa la la la la la la la."

The Roman Catholic Church later changed the day of celebration to December 25, calling it Christmas.

Consider the pagan roots of our popular symbols of Christmas
(1) Christmas Tree - The sacred tree of the winter-god; Druids believed the spirit of their gods resided in the tree. Most ancient pagans knew the tree represented Nimrod reincarnated into Tammuz! Pagans also looked upon the tree as a phallic symbol.

(2) Star - Pentalpha, the five-pointed star. The pentalpha is a powerful symbol of Satan, second only to the hexagram. The star is the sacred symbol of Nimrod, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity.

(3) Candles represent the sun-gods' newly-born fire. Pagans the world over love and use candles in their rituals and ceremonies. Certain colors are also thought to represent specific powers. The extensive use of candles is usually a very good indication that the service is pagan, no matter what the outward trappings might be.

(4) Mistletoe is the sacred plant of the Druids, symbolizing pagan blessings of fertility; thus, kissing under the mistletoe is the first step in the reproductive cycle! Witches also use the white berries in potions.

(5) Wreaths are circular, and so they represent the female sexual organs. Wreaths are associated with fertility and the "circle of life".

(6) Santa Claus - Former Satanists have told me that "Santa" is an anagram for "Satan". In the New Age, the god, "Sanat Kamura", is most definitely an anagram for "Satan". The mythical attributes and powers ascribed to Santa are eerily close to those possessed by Jesus Christ.

(7) Reindeer are horned animals representing the "horned-god" or the "stag-god" of pagan religion! Santa's traditional number of reindeer in his team is eight (; in Satanic gematria, eight is the number of "new beginnings", or the cycle of reincarnation. The Illuminati views the number "eight" as a symbol of their New World Order.

( Elves are imp-like creatures who are Santa's (Satan's) little helpers. They are also demons.

(9) Green and Red are the traditional colors of the season, as they are the traditional pagan colors of winter. Green is Satan's favorite color, so it is appropriate it should be one of the traditional colors for Christmas; red is the color of human blood, Satan's highest form of sacrifice - for this reason, Communism adopted red as it main color!

(10) December 25 is known as the "nativity" of the sun. This date is the birthday of Tammuz, the son, the reincarnation of the sun god. Traditionally, December 21 is known as Yule. The Roman Catholic Church moved the celebration of Yule to December 25.

(11) December 25 is also known to the Romans as "Saturnalia", a time of deliberate debauchery. Drinking through repeated toasting - known as 'wassail' - was a key to the debauchery of this celebration. Fornication was symbolized by the mistletoe, and the entire event was finished with a Great Feast, the Christmas Dinner.

(12) Even the name, "Christmas" is pagan! "Christi" meant "Christ", while "Mas" meant Mass. Since all pagan Masses are commemorating "death", the name, "Christmas" literally means the "death of Christ". A deeper meaning lies in the mention of "Christ" without specifying Jesus. Thus, Antichrist is in view here; the pagans celebrate "Christmas" as a celebration of their coming Antichrist, who will deal a death blow to the Jesus Christ of Christianity.
Early American Christian Pilgrims refused to celebrate this day.

Please stop posting with last information i provided, i rest my case. Ask yourself who is guiding you and who the liar is. I am certainly not a liar and i have proof. You can read it and the rest can also read what happens 21 and 22 December. It is not possible that Allah would make such a night as the night of decree.

The_Guided_One

Peace the guided one

the articles recommended to you by Scribbler are very clear. I read them fast, but to what I saw, they are correct to my understanding of when to start and stop the fast. The perverted Muslims stop fast at sunset, but let them be, for the blind there is no difference between day and night.

Now, according to my understanding, the month begins when the new moon is sighted, and I stop fasting until I sight the new moon of the next month.
2185The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it;
2189They ask you, , about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.

Now, the calendar I follow Is the one used in the middle east, because it is impossible to know otherwise the current month. Many conjecture that Ramadan means The hottest month, but to me is just a name like December. Furthermore, even if it used to be the hottest month in mecca, in pre-Islamic era, the pagans were accused of intercalateing/inserting months to make important dates fall on the most convenient time for them. See, the unbeliever reformist are again doing the same.

The lunar calendar moves throughout the Solar year/seasons, so hopefully we will live to see a ramadan in winter, just as the jewish, who also follow also lunar calendar, have their religious holidays moving throughout the solar year/seasons.

regarding your understanding of 2189...enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed. only God know the true meaning.
Mahamad Assad comentary said this166 I.e., true piety does not consis t in approaching questions of faith through a "back door", as it were- that is,'through mere observance of the forms and periods set for the performance of various religious duties (cf. 2177). However important these forms and time-limits may be in themselves, they do not fulfil their real purpose unless every act is approached through its spiritual "front door", that is, through God-consciousness.

My opinion is that it says not to be like the hypocrites that do things believing that what is important is to be inside, so they try to fool God and the believers, but they only fool themselves. To me, the way you get in, is more important than just to be inside.
One cannot forbid what Allah does not, that is a great sin. If you consider cigarettes intoxicating stuff/adictive, then though not forbidden, there is a strong warning to abstain from them, so you should abstain from them ever. However, if you consider them food, then you only abtain from them during ramadan.

Pray/Ask Only God for understanding, and take nobody else as teacher besides him, for nobody can teach/give you The Truth.

May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.

Selam brother,

I think we should fast till night ( layl ), i also think that the new moon is the beginning of the month ramadan. The month ramadan has to have a meaning and it is a guidance from Allah, i believe this, because that is the only month that is mentioned by name. 2189 is about moons and to begin with a new moon. Maybe i am wrong and i will investigate this more to have a final conclusion.

About cigarettes i will investigate also more, it is not healthy so it must be forbidden.

Peace

The_Guided_One

If anyone wants to discuss the night of decree i made a new topic and please go to http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608583.msg389074#msg389074 if you want to read or post, be my guest.

imrankhawaja

Brother Imaran,

LIE thats not my name.. or u confused a lot ,, usually when somebody speaking or telling lie they slip their tounge..

You provided a link http//free-minds.org/night-decree and the night of decree is on Saturnalia,

another lie.... not me or the writer of article is sure about it ,, its closest understanding..

And why i do not want you on my thread is because you keep on defending Saturnalia and it makes me sick, and you try to misguide Muslims telling them that a satanic celebration is the night of decree, shame on you!

another lie i did not defend saturnaila or any irrelevant shit...

I am certainly not a liar and i have proof.

another lie... i exposed you already ..lol

It is not possible that Allah would make such a night as the night of decree.

another lie and big shirk,, Allah do whatever he wills, he is not bound under ur likness or dislikeness or your opinion..

are you messenger that telling us what God think or do ..

stop covering your lies ,, i already told you the formula of one lie is ,,, u have to speak 100 lies to cover one ,, its up to you..

The_Guided_One

LIE thats not my name.. or u confused a lot ,, usually when somebody speaking or telling lie they slip their tounge..
another lie.... not me or the writer of article is sure about it ,, its closest understanding..

another lie i did not defend saturnaila or any irrelevant shit...

another lie... i exposed you already ..lol

another lie and big shirk,, Allah do whatever he wills, he is not bound under ur likness or dislikeness or your opinion..

are you messenger that telling us what God think or do ..

stop covering your lies ,, i already told you the formula of one lie is ,,, u have to speak 100 lies to cover one ,, its up to you..

you did not expose me, you do not have one statement to expose or show me how you exposed me
and if you are not sure why are you defending it and why did you send the link, again you tell me i am liar, but you do not tell what i am lying,you are a joke

what is shirk? That i do not believe that Allah would make such a night as the night of decree? It is not possible that this is the night of decree, because angels come to earth and they protect people, so i am happy you said this, now i have full proof that the date never can be 21-22 December, when sacrifices take places for satan.
You know Allah says that on the night of decree people are protected by angels till dawn. The night of decree is a peaceful night. And not a night full of horror.

971

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Indeed, We sent the Qur'an down during the Night of Decree.

972

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And what can make you know what is the Night of Decree?

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
The Night of Decree is better than a thousand months.

974

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
The angels and the Spirit descend therein by permission of their Lord for every matter.

975

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Peace it is until the emergence of dawn.

wrkmmn

Peace

971Indeed, We sent the Qur'an down during the Night of Decree
973The Night of Decree is better than a thousand months.
443 Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn .
2185 The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion...

Acording to the previous verses, the night of decree was in the month of Ramadan. I am not going to claim that I know what it means, for my lord has not given me a concrete understanding of that parable. But, what I am sure of is that those who claim that the night of decree, and thus ramadan, is in December 21 are very ignorant people. the reason is that this world experiences two longest nights, one in december 21/22 for the north pole, and one in June 20/22 for the south pole. If we were to believe such nonsense, then we will have two ramadans in a solar cycle(a year).
*In the Northern Hemisphere, the four astronomical seasons are
Spring = March Equinox to June Solstice;
Summer= June Solstice to September Equinox;
Fall (autumn) = September Equinox to December Solstice; and,
Winter = December Solstice to March Equinox.

*Argentina, which is in the southern hemisphere, has four seasons winter (June?August), spring (September?November), summer (December?February) and autumn (March?May).

I do not know what the night of decree is, but I am sure that it is all from our lord, and only the ignorant are seeking the meaning behind it in order to lead many astray.

May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.

The_Guided_One

Peace

971Indeed, We sent the Qur'an down during the Night of Decree
973The Night of Decree is better than a thousand months.
443 Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn .
2185 The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion...

Acording to the previous verses, the night of decree was in the month of Ramadan. I am not going to claim that I know what it means, for my lord has not given me a concrete understanding of that parable. But, what I am sure of is that those who claim that the night of decree, and thus ramadan, is in December 21 are very ignorant people. the reason is that this world experiences two longest nights, one in december 21/22 for the north pole, and one in June 20/22 for the south pole. If we were to believe such nonsense, then we will have two ramadans in a solar cycle(a year).
*In the Northern Hemisphere, the four astronomical seasons are
Spring = March Equinox to June Solstice;
Summer= June Solstice to September Equinox;
Fall (autumn) = September Equinox to December Solstice; and,
Winter = December Solstice to March Equinox.

*Argentina, which is in the southern hemisphere, has four seasons winter (June?August), spring (September?November), summer (December?February) and autumn (March?May).

I do not know what the night of decree is, but I am sure that it is all from our lord, and only the ignorant are seeking the meaning behind it in order to lead many astray.

May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.

I just like you do not know when night of decree is, but i know it can not be 21-22 December and not 21-22 Juni. I made a new thread to show that this never can be night of decree http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608583.msg389074#msg389074

I also believe that traditional ramadan never could have been manipulated. This would have been difficult even by hadith books. How could Muslims worldwide change the holy month all of a sudden. that is not possible i think.

Zulf

I also believe that traditional ramadan never could have been manipulated. This would have been difficult even by hadith books. How could Muslims worldwide change the holy month all of a sudden. that is not possible i think.

There are so many things we are not sure of.
What do we really know about history? We were not there.
In any case, I don't think anything changed all of a sudden. Changes can happen quickly, but they don't come into the scene out of the blue.
Like you said, it is unlikely that load of people all over the world suddenly change a ritual at the same time. So if there was a change, then this is probably not the way it happened. There are many unknowns in history, and many assumptions.

Peace

Bender

There are so many things we are not sure of.
What do we really know about history? We were not there.
In any case, I don't think anything changed all of a sudden. Changes can happen quickly, but they don't come into the scene out of the blue.
Like you said, it is unlikely that load of people all over the world suddenly change a ritual at the same time. So if there was a change, then this is probably not the way it happened. There are many unknowns in history, and many assumptions.

Peace

What about the ritual self, how did that come into existence?