Reducing land from its outlying borders ? If Flat Earth real than ?
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Likewise
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion that the earth is something like a sphere?
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion that the earth is rotating and revolving around the sun?
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion there is reachable space?To understand the book I think it is important not to read more then there is.
Did I quote a verse and made such observations based on that verse?
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Then why do you hold those things to be true?!!
"the earth is something like a sphere"
True, because when I was a bit younger I studied a little bit about this."the earth is rotating and revolving around the sun"
Not 100% true as a spherical earth, but most likely scenario. For the same reason as above."there is reachable space"
I did not understand what you meant with this. -
"the earth is something like a sphere"
True, because when I was a bit younger I studied a little bit about this.Seriously?
So you base your conviction in denying and opposing what I and others are demonstrating in regards to the true shape of the earth which comes from reason, God-given human senses, honest research and evident clear Verses on that??Do you think what you learned in school two decades ago constitutes as rigorous research and investigation of a matter?
Why do you take for granted that you could have been indoctrinated into theories that are incorrect?
Furthermore do you deny the apparent understanding in the Quran solely based on what you studied a bit when you were younger?
"the earth is rotating and revolving around the sun"
Not 100% true as a spherical earth, but most likely scenario. For the same reason as above.Again same set of questions as above
"there is reachable space"
I did not understand what you meant with this.That when you look at the sky and the stars you are staring at empty infinite space
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Of course the Earth has gravity. Otherwise you would have trouble sticking to the ground. Gravity is a force that pulls you to whatever has gravity in this case the Earth. Without it you would be floating in midair.
As for the Earth's form I would incline on spherical and one reason is if I look towards the horizon and there is an object there it will seem to sink into the ocean the further it goes away. This is probably the origin of the superstition that there would be a dangerous waterfall if you travel too far off.
Furthermore, people seem able to travel from the Americas to Asia without running into a border.
And Quran is known to a contain lousy interpretation.
Besides that, what difference would it make no matter what shape the Earth is?
Be well
Amenuel -
Given the ontext of what is beings said before and after this aya, I tend to think that it is peaking of human experience and not of objetive data about phenomena. I should think that it is saying that as we live your lives ad possiilities and prospects become narrower. Whereas in chidlhood ad youth we might have dreamed of the whole earth being open to us as we get older the openings become fewer and fewer and fewer... our earth becomes narrower...
Salaam
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Seriously?
So you base your conviction in denying and opposing what I and others are demonstrating in regards to the true shape of the earth which comes from reason, God-given human senses, honest research and evident clear Verses on that??No, I base my conviction on my own reasoning, God given sense and honest research.
Do you think what you learned in school two decades ago constitutes as rigorous research and investigation of a matter?
yes absolutely
Why do you take for granted that you could have been indoctrinated into theories that are incorrect?
I am not sure if I understood your question, looks kind of weird or I am misreading it.
The shape of the earth is not a theory but a fact.
Spinning earth can be seen as a theory, but for me it is out of question that the earth is stationary. I do not have any other explanation for 2 focal points in the sky, then that the earth must be spherical and spinning.
Heliocentric model is indeed just a model but imo a much better model than a geocentric model.Furthermore do you deny the apparent understanding in the Quran solely based on what you studied a bit when you were younger?
I do not know what you understand under "the apparent understanding in the Quran".
It is however true that I always try to use the methods I learned to understand the quran better, I found them very helpful.That when you look at the sky and the stars you are staring at empty infinite space
I see the universe like a mathematical space.
For example, between 0 and 1 there are infinite real numbers, you can throw there as much real numbers (between 0 and 1) as you like and there will be always more then enough space left. But despite all this infinitness of this space, it still has a clear boarder (0 and 1) and is thus in that sense not infinite.btw do you think this is fake?
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Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny Imran?
none of them,, lol
which of the marvels/miracles/favours of your lord you will deny ...
Glory to the God , the lord of universe..
brother you once told me you are scientist, but as you know there is always a check and balance between everything , and scientific facts seldom change what we know the theories take u turn lot of times that y they are theories...
flat earth theory is an old theory but due to the help of modern science we are able to solve this theory and give it a name fact.. 500 years ago people was aware earth is not flat but thanks to modern science which is seperate from emotions religion and ,
in start it was a problem for them to do their research neutrally but they found lot of things are going against bible and chruch, but they still think literal meaning and actual meanings of things are different but obviously they cannot say something black which is infact white..
this mystery of shape of earth is solved its not flat though..
hope so with the passage of time you will get learn or someday when u become successful scientist they will send to ISS and then you will have a chance to see it with your own eyes..
peace
God bless you.. -
This is getting off topic.
The discussion should be about what the original quoted verse can be about.
The OP asked if it could mean that Earth is flat and there is an ice wall.
That should be the discussion.To get anywhere on this topic, we should first of all look at the context of the verse, and the wordings.
For example, why does the brackets say that what we lose is the control of the lands?
What land is referred to? Is it land controlled by a specific group, or is it the entire Earth?Also, nobody has claimed, from this verse given by OP, that Earth is round.
Cheers all
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@ zulf
its depend on how we understand this all,,
for example a group of criminals are hiding from the state police and police put survellinace of every where like roads, water paths, sky force like airforce.. and inside the state ... its simple mean the land is reducing for them , in the sense of hiding
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"See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?" (Surah ar-Rad 41)
Is then Flat Earthers correct by saying that our world is like a disc and there is a ice wall surronding us?
The verse and its surrounding ones have nothing to do which shapes of Earth.
Also, I didn't know that FE community thinks their ice wall is shrinking. The verse says something is being reduced. What is being reduced in FE model? -
The verse and its surrounding ones have nothing to do which shapes of Earth.
Also, I didn't know that FE community thinks their ice wall is shrinking. The verse says something is being reduced. What is being reduced in FE model?moreover if icewall is melting and earth is reducing its borders, why did not ice wall finish yet and if ice wall finish then there is absolutely no chance the sea level arrise, i think all water will flow out from disk.. and there will be more land then water lol
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Peace
Allah is pointing out to you an observable phenomena.
Some people don't like my approach and it is usually folks that don't bother to dig into Quranic related verses and mostly rely solely on their opinions and I am getting quite sick and tired of it...
Show us you have studied and cite the Quran with your arguments pleaseUnless you have substantial evidence from Quran to uphold your statements please refrain from sharing mere opinions.
There is almost always a sister ayaat or sometimes more for every concept in Quran. 1341 is not the only ayaat Allah mentions reducing the borders of the land 2144 as well!
1341 Did not they see that We come (to) the land, reducing it from its borders? And Allah judges; (there is) no adjuster (of) His Judgment. And He (is) Swift (in) the reckoning.
2144 Nay, We gave provision (to) these and their fathers until grew long for them, the life. Then do not they see that We We come (to) the land, We reduce it from its borders? So is (it) they (who will be) overcoming?
Let us consider the possibilities
I. Who is "do not THEY see" referring to?
a) disbelievers in general
OR
b) disbelievers in the region of the land (possibly those who were also campaigning against the prophet and the believers) which includes hostile members from the People of The Book being sections among Judeo-Nasara allies, Roman empire, African kingdoms.
Remember as Islam was spreading in Africa, Europe and parts of Asia, many neighboring "kingdoms" were losing territory/borders.II. What does the reduction of borders of the land refer to?
a) It is a natural phenomena describing earth's water levels rising
OR
b) The reduction of governing territory/borders of the disbelievers who were neighboring the believers' strongholds/territory. Hence, Describing the advancement of the dominion of the believers over the disbelievers.III. Is l-ardi referring to land or the earth?
a) the entire earth
OR
b) referring to land as in territory, country, regionWith almost all probability it is a) the entire earth. Three reasons
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In Quran al-ardi almost always refers to the entire earth
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In addition, if Allah were referring to a specific people's land the possessive pronoun could have been used as in 3327 (their land) ardahum or ardan when referring to a nonspecific land/territory.
3327 Waawrathakum ardahum wadiyarahum waamwalahum waardan lam tataooha wakana Allahu AAala kulli shay-in qadeeran
3327 And He caused you to inherit their land, and their houses, and their properties and a land not you (had) trodden. And Allah is on every thing All-Powerful.- Conclusively, Allah comes to the land and reduces the borders of the land NOT the borders of the ones who are called to observe.
The pronoun used for borders and the verb to reduce, the word land are all feminine singular, while they is masculine plural.
(13415)
l-ara
(to) the land, N accusative feminine noun(13416)
nanquuh
reducing it V 1st person plural imperfect verb
PRON 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun
??
(1341
arfih
its borders? N genitive masculine plural noun
PRON 3rd person feminine singular possessive pronoun
??(214413)
l-ara
(to) the land, N accusative feminine noun(214414)
nanquuh
We reduce it V 1st person plural imperfect verb
PRON 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun
??
(214416)
arfih
its borders? N genitive masculine plural noun
PRON 3rd person feminine singular possessive pronoun
??OBSERVATIONS
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It seems like grammatically it is pointing towards al-ardi referring to the entire earth (per above).
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Allah mentions in the previous and subsequent verses punishment of the Last Day
This is completely in conjunction with idea that the disbelievers are failing to understand that they cannot escape Allah, no matter how much wealth they accumulate, or how long they live, they cannot overcome the inevitability of The Punishment of The Approaching Day which has approached (211, 5357), for the which indications/some of its Signs have arrived( 471.
1340 And whether We show you a part (of) what We have promised them or We cause you to die, so only on you (is) the conveyance, and on Us (is) the reckoning.
2137 Is created the man of haste. I will show you My Signs so (do) not ask Me to hasten.
2138 And they say, "When (will be fulfilled) this promise, if you are truthful?"
2139 If knew those who disbelieved (the) time (when) not they will avert from their faces the Fire and not from their backs and not they will be helped!
2140 Nay, it will come to them unexpectedly and bewilder them, then not they will be able to repel it, and not they will be given respite.
2141 And verily, were mocked Messengers before you then surrounded those who mocked from them what they used at it (to) mock.
2142 Say, "Who (can) protect you in the night and the day from the Most Gracious?" Yet, they from (the) remembrance (of) their Lord turn away.
2143 Or have they gods (to) defend them from Us? Not they are able (to) help themselves and not they from Us can be protected.
2144 Nay, We gave provision (to) these and their fathers until grew long for them, the life. Then do not THEY see that We We come (to) the land, We reduce it from its borders? So is (it) they (who will be) overcoming?
2144 Say, "Only I warn you by the revelation." But not hear the deaf the call when they are warned.Finally, we are invited to observe that the land is being reduced at its borders by water, meaning water level is constantly rising.
This is a warning that eventually the promise will be fulfilled and the seas will rise and swell causing tsunamis and floods across the earth- Verses in support. Prophecies of seas made to overflow/water level rising
3041 Has appeared the corruption in the land and the sea for what have earned (the) hands (of) people, so that He may let them taste a part (of) that which they have done so that they may return.
526 By the sea filled
816 And when the seas are made to overflow,
823 And when the seas are made to gush
Please begin truly studying Quran if you are believers
PS
Those verses have nothing to do with shape of the earth but that long post I made did and it is sufficient clear evidence for the believers. Everyone else will buy the lies. It does not matter to me, I will not grieve over the stubborn defiant ones...But this verse does!!! 2265 should wake up the FE disbelievers!
2265 Do not you see that Allah (has) subjected to you what (is) in the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? And He withholds the sky lest it falls on the earth except by His permission. Indeed, Allah to mankind (is) Full of Kindness, Most Merciful.
Come to us brothers if you in Allah Alone believe!
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Given the ontext of what is beings said before and after this aya, I tend to think that it is peaking of human experience and not of objetive data about phenomena. I should think that it is saying that as we live your lives ad possiilities and prospects become narrower. Whereas in chidlhood ad youth we might have dreamed of the whole earth being open to us as we get older the openings become fewer and fewer and fewer... our earth becomes narrower...
Salaam
what I said abut the previous aya is also good for this 21.44 and also call attention that it is not speaking about borders but about ends, aTraaf.
Salaam
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Peace
Borders makes sense, also extremities and ends
(1341
arfih
its borders?N ? genitive masculine plural noun
PRON ? 3rd person feminine singular possessive pronoun ??= Tay-Ra-Fa = attack the extremity of the enemy's lines, chose a thing, extremity, edge, lateral/adjacent/outward part, side, border, end, newly acquired, proximity, fringes.
leaders/thinkers/scholars, best of the fruits.
Look from outer angle of eye, twinkle in eye, putting eyelids in motion, looking, glance, blinking, raise/open eyes, hurt the eye and make it water.
descend from an ancient family, noble man in respect of ancestry.tarafa vb. (1) n.vb. 1443, 2740, 3748, 3852, 4245, 5556
taraf. n.m. (pl. atraf) 3127, 11114, 1341, 20130, 2144
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=Trf
http//ejtaal.net/aa/img/ll/19/ll-1931.png
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It reminds me about someone who counted the occurrences of words in the quran, and in this case it was words for land vs sea. The person concluded that the equilibrium ratios he found indicated that the land mass will decrease and sea surface will increase. Cannot recall any figure or who did the work.
Cheers
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It reminds me about someone who counted the occurrences of words in the quran, and in this case it was words for land vs sea. The person concluded that the equilibrium ratios he found indicated that the land mass will decrease and sea surface will increase. Cannot recall any figure or who did the work.
Cheers
I see, but I rely on context of the words and passages.
Ratio of occurrences alone don't seem to convincingCheers
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2144 It was Us who gave luxury to these and their fathers, until they grew old with age. Do they not see that We come to the land and reduce it from its edges? Will they be able to win?
i have another understanding regarding this... verse... but again its just understanding God knows best..
actually in the start of bgbang when the earth was young... it was full of land mass... just land everywhere.. after a passage of time God sent down water in it.. or scietist thinks its asteriods that hit the surface with water in it... from there the life start generating..
so with respect to this understanding we can say God reduce the edges of land.. it quite understandable...
@ hp tech brother
Please begin truly studying Quran if you are believers
PS
Those verses have nothing to do with shape of the earth but that long post I made did and it is sufficient clear evidence for the believers. Everyone else will buy the lies. It does not matter to me, I will not grieve over the stubborn defiant ones...But this verse does!!! 2265 should wake up the FE disbelievers!
i have questions
who are these fe disbeleivers? any sect or kaffirs...
what are lies exactly ? explain it plz...
do you think FE disbeleivers are not reading quran truly?
who is stubborn? flat earthers or round earthers
believing in shape of earth is require to get submittor? who is submitter the one who submit his will or the one who beleive earth is flat?answer it as i feel it very personal... what happend to you ,you are behaving like there is a secterian fight is going one there...?
peace