Bodily Resurrection
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Peace Comrox,
Agreed with huruf, resurrection will be a new creation (a different body) and not of the same body (2399-100, 1749, 179.
There are 2 exceptions in the quran (a contradiction?) which describes resurrection of Moses (255-56), but that could be a near death experience (NDE) and death might not be complete. But it says "resurrected after death", which implies death was complete. So it looks like we have yet another contradiction on our hands.
The other exception is 2258 in which the person died and was resurrected in the same body, which also contradicts 2399-100, 1749, 1798.
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The quran indicates a physical or bodily resurrection.
2260 And Abraham said "My Lord, show me how you resurrect the dead." He said "Do you not already believe?" He said "I do, but it is so my heart can be relieved." He said "Choose four birds, then cut them, then place parts of the birds on each mountain, then call them to you; they will come racing towards you. And know that God is Noble, Wise."
The above indicates a physical bodily resurrection of birds.
1665 And God has sent down water from the sky, so He revives the land with it after its death. In that is a sign for a people who listen.
3019 He brings the living out of the dead, and He brings the dead out of the living. And He revives the land after its death. And similarly you will be brought out.
3024 And from His signs is that He shows you the lightning, giving you fear and hope, and He sends down water from the sky, and He revives the land with it after its death. In that are signs for a people who comprehend.
359 And God is the One who sends the winds so it stirs up a cloud, then We drive it to a land that is dead, and We revive with it the earth after it had died. Such is the resurrection.
4139 And from among His signs is that you see the land still, then, as soon as We send down the water upon it, it shakes and grows. Surely, the One who revived it can revive the dead. He is capable of all things.
4311 And He is the One who sends down water from the sky, in exact measure. We then revive with it a dead land. Similarly, you will be brought out.
The above indicate a physical resurrection (revival of land is physical).
1798 Such is their recompense that they rejected Our revelations, and they said "If we are bones and fragments, will we be sent into a new creation?"
1799 Did they not see that God who has created the heavens and the earth is able to create their like? And He has made an appointed time for them in which there is no doubt. But the wicked refuse anything except rejection.These signs indicate the resurrection will be in a different body ("new creation", which will be like/similar to the old creation ("create their like", thus indicating a physical or bodily resurrection.
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The Ra material "the Law of One" (positive channelings from a positive higher dimensional being) confirms the Last Day (the day of harvest) and confirms a physical bodily resurrection as a different body (either reincarnation into a different 3rd density body or a 4th density body depending on percentage of good deeds, either on same planet or different planets). It describes the characteristics of the 4th density body in great detail and tells how it is different.
For example the fundamental energy will vibrate on a different frequency (green-ray frequency instead of current yellow-ray frequency), there will be ability of telepathy and teleportation, there will be no physical pain or suffering, the body will be "lighter", the veil of forgetfulness will not be as dense, 4th density beings will have ability to make their body invisible to the lower densities, life span will average 90,000 years etc. (they will graduate to 5th density existence and so on).
The Ra material also describes the day of harvest in detail. It confirms all 3rd density humans will die on or before that day. It also gives an approximate time period when day of harvest will occur and admits it does not know the exact time. For complete details people can read "the Law of One"
http//www.llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx
http//www.lawofone.info/
http//divinecosmos.com/start-here/books-free-online/23-the-law-of-one-study-guide####################
I agree that the contraction expansion model of the universe is most likely the correct model (Ra material also indicates a cyclical universe and previous universes that have already gone through this cycle), but reversal of time is completely bogus. The article quoted by you does not give any scientific references for the "reversal of time" theory. Contraction of universe (space) does not imply reversal of time. For past life events to be displayed after death and for resurrection to occur does not require time to reverse. Souls will be able to travel in time after death and see the past life events. One can even time travel during astral projection. I wish someone can astral project to the messenger's time and see how the quran was revealed and witness all the historical details to see what actually happened.
Time and space is a relative concept for humans and is just an illusion. In reality there is nothing except the infinite Creator and there is no time from the infinite Creator's perspective. The Creator can see past, present and future at the same time. It is a difficult concept to grasp though.
Peace
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Thse birds of Ibrahim, the same as the birds of 3isa I take it as parables and as annoucement of a higher degree of nearness to God or degree of conscience or deep peace or however we wan to call it.
I do not take it as a description of a real material event. Of what use would it be for us to have such kind of narration. That God can do anything, it is a given. That God can give any powe He wants to anybody he wants is another given. So we must reflect on the virtues, on Ibrahim spiritual experience and take the teachings we can extrat ffrom them, and the ame with 3isa.
Salaam
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what is real and what is unreal is the understanding of laws that we are encountring...here on this part of universe...
we did not see time is going back,, sun is coming from west... glass once broken get unbroken... y
is it not really possible or its just our limits of life assign to us by God laws...
a dvd recorder cannot itself forward or reverse a movie untill the operator or user interfenece in it..
what is so difficult for a creator of all this to reverse the time and make things happen again as it was...
if abraham was confused about laws and then God tell him and show him laws of reversal gravity whats so astonshing or unbeleiving ,,
i still dnt understand why people dnt beleive that God is not capabale of all things,, infact that was the subject of this verse when abraham asked from God how will you resurrect the dead , and soon after God ask abraham dnt you beleive he siad i do beleive but i want satisfaction of my heart... and then God show him its all about reversal of time and same will happen on judgement day...
whats so confusing in it.. or we are taking everything as what we wish too understand...?
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God is continuously showing his signs through different things to understand and beleive on unnseen and logics of book but people still are very ignorant they still refuse each and every single sign of God...
aboout 300 years ago who was aware once we will have a technology by which we can partly control the events or capture the events from past.. although we cannot change the past but atleast we captured the past , by inventind video camera...
due to that video camera we exactly go back to 150 years what happen at that time ...
when a human being living on this low worldy life can create something so think about the lord of universe who assign all these laws...
i assign a law dnt cook after 12 o clock,, it does not mean after 12 no body can cook... or it does not mean i cannot change my law ..
grow up guys.. may be like a past there is a law also hidden from us through which we can see future.. but for achieving this our minds have not buitl in the understanding of the mechanics of future so we are unsuccessful.. but again due to tecnology a little bit future prediction and forecasting we are doing and its 98 correct like weather forecasting , earth quake prediction etc..
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Peace all,
If I amnot worng, the Qur'anspeaks of a new creation, that is a recreation of each of us.
So there is no resurrection of the body of the soul (if they are different things and I do notthink nafs is the equivalent of soul) but a recreation of the person.
Salaam
The Qur'an can seem to say both - discussed here http//quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1428.msg6555
If I'm remembering correctly I believe there's also verses that say on this Day the heavens and the earth will be crushed, so I would have to assume that a sequence is being discussed, (first) resurrection and (second) crushing. Any other way of looking at these events together wouldn't make sense in my view.
I would say good verse arguments that the resurrection is physical (bodily) is in the many verses which speak of resurrection/rising from the graves, and 753 "Does the human being think that We will not gather his bones ?"
Root ayn mm - PRL says
Ayn-Za-Miim = great, important, big, regard, honour, mighty, glorious, a man of moment, All-mighty, All-glorious, grievous, bounty/abounding, magnify/increase. azzama - to make great.
But after looking at the root I don't even see why it is translated as bones.
I've looked at PRL before concerning the root of the word used for "grave" and I remember it didn't seem to have any other meanings that would imply anything different than a physical resurrection from the resting place of a dead body.
Peace Comrox,
Agreed with huruf, resurrection will be a new creation (a different body) and not of the same body (2399-100, 1749, 179.
There are 2 exceptions in the quran (a contradiction?) which describes resurrection of Moses (255-56), but that could be a near death experience (NDE) and death might not be complete. But it says "resurrected after death", which implies death was complete. So it looks like we have yet another contradiction on our hands.
The other exception is 2258 in which the person died and was resurrected in the same body, which also contradicts 2399-100, 1749, 1798.
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The quran indicates a physical or bodily resurrection.
2260 And Abraham said "My Lord, show me how you resurrect the dead." He said "Do you not already believe?" He said "I do, but it is so my heart can be relieved." He said "Choose four birds, then cut them, then place parts of the birds on each mountain, then call them to you; they will come racing towards you. And know that God is Noble, Wise."
The above indicates a physical bodily resurrection of birds.
1665 And God has sent down water from the sky, so He revives the land with it after its death. In that is a sign for a people who listen.
3019 He brings the living out of the dead, and He brings the dead out of the living. And He revives the land after its death. And similarly you will be brought out.
3024 And from His signs is that He shows you the lightning, giving you fear and hope, and He sends down water from the sky, and He revives the land with it after its death. In that are signs for a people who comprehend.
359 And God is the One who sends the winds so it stirs up a cloud, then We drive it to a land that is dead, and We revive with it the earth after it had died. Such is the resurrection.
4139 And from among His signs is that you see the land still, then, as soon as We send down the water upon it, it shakes and grows. Surely, the One who revived it can revive the dead. He is capable of all things.
4311 And He is the One who sends down water from the sky, in exact measure. We then revive with it a dead land. Similarly, you will be brought out.
The above indicate a physical resurrection (revival of land is physical).
1798 Such is their recompense that they rejected Our revelations, and they said "If we are bones and fragments, will we be sent into a new creation?"
1799 Did they not see that God who has created the heavens and the earth is able to create their like? And He has made an appointed time for them in which there is no doubt. But the wicked refuse anything except rejection.These signs indicate the resurrection will be in a different body ("new creation", which will be like/similar to the old creation ("create their like", thus indicating a physical or bodily resurrection.
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The Ra material "the Law of One" (positive channelings from a positive higher dimensional being) confirms the Last Day (the day of harvest) and confirms a physical bodily resurrection as a different body (either reincarnation into a different 3rd density body or a 4th density body depending on percentage of good deeds, either on same planet or different planets). It describes the characteristics of the 4th density body in great detail and tells how it is different.
For example the fundamental energy will vibrate on a different frequency (green-ray frequency instead of current yellow-ray frequency), there will be ability of telepathy and teleportation, there will be no physical pain or suffering, the body will be "lighter", the veil of forgetfulness will not be as dense, 4th density beings will have ability to make their body invisible to the lower densities, life span will average 90,000 years etc. (they will graduate to 5th density existence and so on).
The Ra material also describes the day of harvest in detail. It confirms all 3rd density humans will die on or before that day. It also gives an approximate time period when day of harvest will occur and admits it does not know the exact time. For complete details people can read "the Law of One"
http//www.llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx
http//www.lawofone.info/
http//divinecosmos.com/start-here/books-free-online/23-the-law-of-one-study-guide####################
I agree that the contraction expansion model of the universe is most likely the correct model (Ra material also indicates a cyclical universe and previous universes that have already gone through this cycle), but reversal of time is completely bogus. The article quoted by you does not give any scientific references for the "reversal of time" theory. Contraction of universe (space) does not imply reversal of time. For past life events to be displayed after death and for resurrection to occur does not require time to reverse. Souls will be able to travel in time after death and see the past life events. One can even time travel during astral projection. I wish someone can astral project to the messenger's time and see how the quran was revealed and witness all the historical details to see what actually happened.
Time and space is a relative concept for humans and is just an illusion. In reality there is nothing except the infinite Creator and there is no time from the infinite Creator's perspective. The Creator can see past, present and future at the same time. It is a difficult concept to grasp though.
Peace
Thank you for all the information. I know we discussed this a bit in PMs so I was surprised to see you respond again here with such detail. o Thank you.
I agree especially with your last statement that there is no time from God's point of view. That's something to always keep in mind as much as possible, I feel.
I remember in one of the links you sent me there was a link inside of a link that argued our bodies are part of the earth. I thought I bookmarked the webpage but I can't find it again. I remember that had good arguments that worked with yours/the Law of One's though! D
I do not take it as a description of a real material event. Of what use would it be for us to have such kind of narration. That God can do anything, it is a given. That God can give any powe He wants to anybody he wants is another given. So we must reflect on the virtues, on Ibrahim spiritual experience and take the teachings we can extrat ffrom them, and the ame with 3isa.
Salaam
Where do we draw the line, between what is meant to be understood metaphorically, and what is meant to be understood literally? How do we know when to use each understanding? If we're never told or it's not implied that the resurrection is supposed to be taken metaphorically (or spiritually), then why should we?
We have a tendency to understand everything as material/physical.
We do so out of ignorance. We are too deeply stuck in this fleshy dream we are living.Agreed. (
I watch movies like Inception, The Matrix, Interstellar, and - if God wills - the upcoming Dr. Strange, which all deal with the concepts of time/physicality of this world/the real reality, and yet I still go back to being stuck in the "fleshy dream", as you put it.
what is real and what is unreal is the understanding of laws that we are encountring...here on this part of universe...
we did not see time is going back,, sun is coming from west... glass once broken get unbroken... y
is it not really possible or its just our limits of life assign to us by God laws...
a dvd recorder cannot itself forward or reverse a movie untill the operator or user interfenece in it..
what is so difficult for a creator of all this to reverse the time and make things happen again as it was...
if abraham was confused about laws and then God tell him and show him laws of reversal gravity whats so astonshing or unbeleiving ,,
i still dnt understand why people dnt beleive that God is not capabale of all things,, infact that was the subject of this verse when abraham asked from God how will you resurrect the dead , and soon after God ask abraham dnt you beleive he siad i do beleive but i want satisfaction of my heart... and then God show him its all about reversal of time and same will happen on judgement day...
whats so confusing in it.. or we are taking everything as what we wish too understand...?
Interesting, so you agree with the theory of time reversal.
In the example you mentioned, not even Abraham believed at first that God is capable of all things, and none of us are supposed to blindly accept anything as truth, so I don't see what the issue is with having questions.
For me, it's confusing particularly when we get into the fact that peoples' bodies are preserved, or not preserved, in different ways. Even bones decay after a certain amount of time. It seems to go against laws that we have discovered so far that the entire population of humankind will physically rise from their graves in different forms all at once on the Day. Logically, wouldn't that mean people would be standing on top of or trampling over one another when they rose?
grow up guys.. may be like a past there is a law also hidden from us through which we can see future.. but for achieving this our minds have not buitl in the understanding of the mechanics of future so we are unsuccessful..
A hidden law or understanding is possible of course, and we just don't know it yet.
Concerning the first thing you said, if you don't want to participate in the discussion further, you don't have to. Thank you for what you have contributed thus far. ^^ I always appreciate your posts.
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Q3871-72 - And your Rabb said to the Mala?ika ?I am creating a being (bashar) from clay. So when I have (corrected /bettered him), and blown of My Spirit (ruuh) in him, then you shall yield to him...
Q7117-18 - And ALLAH made you grow from the earth as plants. Then HE returns you to it, and He brings you out totally.?
The first Humanoids spawned from ?Earth Embryos? like plants, subsequently, created between the sexual intervention of male and female.
As the Quran says, we were made in stages...
Q4067 - He is the One who created you from DUST, then from a SEED, then from an EMBRYO, then He brings you out as a child, then He lets you reach your maturity, then you become old; and some of you will have their lives terminated before this; and that you may reach an appointed term, and perhaps so you may comprehend...
Our ancestors spawned directly from the earth, then thru sexually interference, the human development from seed then to an embryo and born as a baby. Then we age and dies and bury in the ground. Then we will be resurrected....
Q2055 - From it (the earth) We created you, and in it We return you, and from it We bring you out another time...
The Quran repeatedly mentions that the First Creation is exactly like the Last Creation (?al-nasha?atulakhira?), that is, we will spawn from the face of the earth like our ancestors....
Q21104 - On the Day when We roll up the heavens like the scroll of a book is rolled up. As WE INITIATED THE FIRST CREATION, SO SHALL WE REPEAT IT. It is a promise of Ours that We will surely deliver......
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Q21104 - On the Day when We roll up the heavens like the scroll of a book is rolled up. As WE INITIATED THE FIRST CREATION, SO SHALL WE REPEAT IT. It is a promise of Ours that We will surely deliver......
this quranic verse is much closer to the new theories of time reversal or time travelling... infact on some conditions the scientist now understand it possible to reverse time somehow by rolling the heaven , God knows best..
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new understandings of time travel
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Concerning the first thing you said, if you don't want to participate in the discussion further, you don't have to. ) Thank you for what you have contributed thus far. ^^ I always appreciate your posts.
RED i did not understand it , hmm i never said i m not participating lol
Interesting, so you agree with the theory of time reversal.
i agree there is everything every law is possible for God to get in done.. theories are our understandings of observing things, when we are sure about our theory and discover the law behind anything we give it name a proven fact , with the the help of experiments ..
In the example you mentioned, not even Abraham believed at first that God is capable of all things, and none of us are supposed to blindly accept anything as truth, so I don't see what the issue is with having questions. )
For me, it's confusing particularly when we get into the fact that peoples' bodies are preserved, or not preserved, in different ways. Even bones decay after a certain amount of time. It seems to go against laws that we have discovered so far that the entire population of humankind will physically rise from their graves in different forms all at once on the Day. Logically, wouldn't that mean people would be standing on top of or trampling over one another when they rose?
GREEN i did not say abraham not beleived, he beleived but he wanted a satisfaction... look at the words again plz,
there is no issue having any questions , ask as much you can. issue is when somebody without any proof claim its methphorical , where methphorical does not make sense...
abrham clearly see the event with his eyes.. and again he see the birds comings towards him.. he beleived but when he see with his eyes he get satisfied too...
my grandfather told me there is a treasure under the floor, i believed the words of my grandfatgher but when he show me then i will get satisfied too.. lol thats what God want to tell us there...
and thanx for your aprreciation we should alwasy help eachother for sharing our confusion..
one more thing, dnt you know how old is the body of pharoah... more than 3000 years . is it not saved yet..by the will of God.. laws and restrictions for us, not for God, he can do whatever he wills
blue for this you need to wait for the judgement day and its depend on the limit of vehicles of controllers lol,, i m just kidding when time will reverse its not mean the years become minutes.. the method of ressurection no body have seen so we cannot assume the same laws of time... also apply ,
peace God bless you
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Actually, even movies like Inception and Matrix are material/physical
What's needed is to be in touch with the spiritual side of reality, which is real and objective.
Matrix is like escaping to yet another material/physical world... and is something we can not connect with in reality.
We are in fact stuck here in this fleshy domain, but that's totally OK. We can not think our way out of it, and should not.
However, we need to get in touch with the unseen aspects of reality... so no need for fantasies.Cheers
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Actually, even movies like Inception and Matrix are material/physical
What's needed is to be in touch with the spiritual side of reality, which is real and objective.
Matrix is like escaping to yet another material/physical world... and is something we can not connect with in reality.
We are in fact stuck here in this fleshy domain, but that's totally OK. We can not think our way out of it, and should not.
However, we need to get in touch with the unseen aspects of reality... so no need for fantasies.Cheers
the concept of matrix is somehow similar to body and real self, but problem started when on other dimenshan real self facing bullets and body died in space ship.. its unfair !
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Peace Comrox,
Time travel is not the same as time reversal. The contraction of the universe also does not mean time reversal. In the expansion/contraction model, the expanding universe stops expanding and then matter starts moving in other direction linearly towards the initial point of singularity. For example the whole milky way galaxy is moving away from center of the universe; at some time it will stop moving away from center and start moving towards center (like a bungee cord). That does not mean time reversal, but time will still move in same direction from our perspective. The Earth will still be revolving and rotating in same direction, but the whole solar system instead of moving away from center of galaxy will be moving towards center of galaxy (linearly).
MOST IMPORTANTLY, in reality there is no time from God's perspective. So time reversal makes no sense. God can resurrect or recreate anything without reversing time (from our perspective). 21104 talks about repeating creation the same way it was created before. The previous time it wasn't created by "time reversal" but by an explosion outwards from the singularity. 21104 actually supports contraction/expansion model of the universe (which has nothing to do with time).
There is also no time travel in reality because there is no time from God's perspective. The past, present and future are actually all happening simultaneously. The analogy is of hundreds of radio stations being broadcast simultaneously. What seems like time travel from our perspective, in reality is analogous to dialing to another radio station which is being broadcast simultaneously. By dialing from one radio station to other, we think something is happening in time (past = one station, present = another station just dialed in), but actually they are all being broadcast simultaneously. This is the simplest analogy I can give; the reality is a very difficult concept to grasp.
I would say good verse arguments that the resurrection is physical (bodily) is in the many verses which speak of resurrection/rising from the graves, and 753 "Does the human being think that We will not gather his bones ?"
Agreed those verses point to physical resurrection. PRL is still not complete and doesn't give all meanings of words. Please see Lane's Lexicon for the "bone" meaning
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000372.pdf
What about those people who were cremated or were vaporized in nuclear blast, who are not in graves? Also bones decay after a certain time so even "gather his bones" does not make sense. Surely, the true God would know about that. I find this aspect of the "bone" and "grave" verses troubling.
Ra material says something extremely interesting about victims of a nuclear blast and what would possibly have happened to those souls/spirits if the spirit guardians (controllers) had not intervened in a split second.
There is nothing physical in reality, but while we are in the illusion of physical and illusion of separation from the infinite Creator, no harm discussing in practical physical terms. Otherwise if we always think in terms of non physical reality, then we should stop eating, and while driving we shouldn't care about pedestrians or other traffic "because everything is non physical in reality and we cannot be having fleshy dream" and we will pass right through them. P
Q7117-18 - And ALLAH made you grow from the earth as plants. Then HE returns you to it, and He brings you out totally.?
Hizbullah, thank you for bringing this sign to attention. I had not come across it before.
Wow, Ra material also talks about humans on Earth arising from plants! I was surprised when I read that but the quran says the same thing! The Sirians (the 3rd density human aliens who lived on planet of Sirius star) are supposed to have originated entirely from plants.
Peace
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o
I am not with him on that, although I have an open mind.
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The Sirians (the 3rd density human aliens who lived on planet of Sirius star) are supposed to have originated entirely from plants.
Peace
as far my humble knowledge in the field of space science , sirius is a star like sun... a gas ball.. oh my God my brother do you think that any scientist ever claim this thing before ,to look for the symptoms of life on star specially star like sirius.. ok what about sirius b. peace
i think you watch ancient aliens a lot lol but we can present a new theory what if there is a creation of fire living there, what we call extraterrestriol.. it might possible.. sun
human aliens= who? half human half alien...