Takes time to reach God?

imrankhawaja

Peace Imran,

Read all my posts again. Jafar could see the quranic proof I gave but you couldn't. If you still don't see it then I have no medicine for that.

Peace.

medicine is for the people who are claiming something against God which they have no knowledge off... even the messengers did not claim what is the nature of God and how come you are so sure thats what the nature of creator, big claim without proof, and without the capacity of mind to understand the nature of creator...

peace

Comrox

Additionally, God "settling" upon a "throne" (324) also goes against God being everywhere. "Those who carry the throne" (407) implies that the throne is not everywhere, because if it is everywhere then no need to carry!

Peace

Another verse about the throne, where the Day of Judgment is discussed

6917 And the angels will be on its borders; and the Throne of your Lord will be carried, above them on that Day, by eight.

Root ayn r shn

Ayn-Ra-Shiin = to construct/build, make trellis (for grape-wine), make a vine-stalk, roof, raise (a house or structure), settle. arsh - throne, arbour, pavillion, roof, power, dominion, sovereignty.

PRL doesn't show the root mm lm for carried/bore so I'm not sure what the meanings of that word could be. Even still, "above them" does seem to imply that a space/area is being used up.

Maybe there's a better explanation we'll see one day.

Wakas

PRL doesn't show the root mm lm for carried/bore so I'm not sure what the meanings of that word could be.

From PRL http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

= Haa-Miim-La = bore it, carried it, took it up, carried it, convey, show/manifest, carry a thing upon one's back or head, bear a burden, become pregnant with or conceive a child (woman), to go about spreading calumny or slander, give someone a beast to ride, mount someone upon a beast of burden, show or manifest anger, task or fatigue oneself, take a responsibility upon oneself, incite someone to do a thing, produce or put forth something , narrate and write down a thing , carry or do a thing, bear the burden of a calumny, to charge with a crime.

hamala vb. (1)
perf. act. 2286, 6146, 7189, 173, 1770, 1922, 1958, 20111, 3114, 3372, 3641, 4615, 5413, 6911
impf. act. 2248, 2286, 631, 7176, 992, 992, 1236, 138, 167, 1625, 1927, 20100, 2912, 2913, 2960, 3372, 3511, 407, 4147, 625, 625, 6917
impv. 1140
perf. pass. 6914
impf. pass. 2322, 3518, 4080
n.vb. 7189, 222, 222, 4615, 654, 654, 656, 656
pcple. act. 2912, 512

hammalah n.f. 1114

hamulah n.f. 6142

himl n.m. 1272, 20101, 3518

hammala vb. (2)
impf. act. 2286
perf. pass. 2087, 2454, 2454, 625

ihtamala vb. (
perf. act. 4112, 1317, 3358

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 282, 283, 284, 285, 286 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7ml

Comrox

Peace Wakas,

From PRL http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

= Haa-Miim-La = bore it, carried it, took it up, carried it, convey, show/manifest, carry a thing upon one's back or head, bear a burden, become pregnant with or conceive a child (woman), to go about spreading calumny or slander, give someone a beast to ride, mount someone upon a beast of burden, show or manifest anger, task or fatigue oneself, take a responsibility upon oneself, incite someone to do a thing, produce or put forth something , narrate and write down a thing , carry or do a thing, bear the burden of a calumny, to charge with a crime.

hamala vb. (1)
perf. act. 2286, 6146, 7189, 173, 1770, 1922, 1958, 20111, 3114, 3372, 3641, 4615, 5413, 6911
impf. act. 2248, 2286, 631, 7176, 992, 992, 1236, 138, 167, 1625, 1927, 20100, 2912, 2913, 2960, 3372, 3511, 407, 4147, 625, 625, 6917
impv. 1140
perf. pass. 6914
impf. pass. 2322, 3518, 4080
n.vb. 7189, 222, 222, 4615, 654, 654, 656, 656
pcple. act. 2912, 512

hammalah n.f. 1114

hamulah n.f. 6142

himl n.m. 1272, 20101, 3518

hammala vb. (2)
impf. act. 2286
perf. pass. 2087, 2454, 2454, 625

ihtamala vb. (
perf. act. 4112, 1317, 3358

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 282, 283, 284, 285, 286 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7ml

Whoops. I didn't see the "Haa" folder. Thank you. I stand corrected. ;D

LastDay3

.................

Logical fallacy of strawman. I never said they (=vibrating strings of energy) are rabb.

They are not rabb but a part of rabb (a tiny manifestation/extension/radiation of its noor),

.................

Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,

I strongly disagree,
because it is Clearly and Unmistakably Emphasized in QURAN TESTAMENT that

Nothing and No one was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.

==========
15- And they even assigned to HIM a portion/fragment/piece/part (=juzan) of HIS own servants (=for example
by mistakenly or wrongfully claiming that
Angels or/and Jesus or/and all Humans, collectively, or/and all Things (=Matter/Energy), completely were/are a "portion/share/piece/part" of HIM)!
Surely, the human being is profoundly unappreciative.

(QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)

...........

Anyone can cross reference the usage of "wajh" in the quran and see that it cannot mean "power" as used in the quran.
Additionally no classical Arabic dictionary gives this meaning. The meaning of "power" for "wajh" in the quran is a conjecture and fabrication.

The quran consistently uses words derived from the root "qaf-waw-ya" to mean power, especially in relation to God, for example "quwwata" (2165, 1839, 5158, 8120).

...........

Dear brother/friend, but I never said that
"Wajh" in Arabic means "Power,"
but I clearly said that
"Wajh" in Arabic means "Face,"
in this most specific Clear context here

Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,

this is how I understand that Verse, first of all,
here

==========================
115- And to AL-LAH belong the East and the West,
so wherever you turn, there is the "Face of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Seeing & Hearing & Controlling & Governing "Power of AL-LAH" =20/46 & 57/4 & 58/7 & ......
X
Not the Individual/Personal "Presence of AL-LAH"
because HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse =70/4 in my previous post above).

Certainly, AL-LAH is Encompassing (=Wasiun everywhere & everything with HIS such
Absolute "Knowledge" & "Mercy" here =7/156 & 20/98 & 40/7 & ......), Knowledgeable.

QURAN TESTAMENT 2/115

I believe the exact similar/same Understanding is absolutely valid
for all of these Allegorical Terms in QURAN TESTAMENT, here

"Face of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Seeing & Hearing & Controlling & Governing "Power of AL-LAH" =13/22 & ......

"Hands of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Granting & Helping "Power of AL-LAH" =5/64 & ......

"Eyes of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Watching & Guarding "Power of AL-LAH" =20/39 & ......

In any of these Allegorical Terms above
the Individual/Personal "Presence of AL-LAH" is Not indicated therein,

because again, HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse, in the first place =70/4
in my previous post above).

Is The Universe A Hologram?
https//youtu.be/iNgIl-qIklU

Salaam/Peace Jafar,

thank you very much for that pretty short but essentially informative video above.
Whether "holographic principle" idea is true, or not, and our Universe is really a Hologram, or not,
--(AL-LAH can Absolutely create Universe/s based on such "holographic principle," when/if HE wills so (=36/79, 82-83)
and our Universe may perhaps indeed be one of those Holographic Universes HE has created)--

but no matter what it is, I strongly believe
this Fundamental/Main/Essential Principle NEVER changes

Nothing and No one (=including Holographic Universe/s)
was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.

(*Please, absolutely see it again
in this most Essential and important Chapter/Verse No. 43/15 in QURAN TESTAMENT above.)

And the other most Critical and Important Information for me in that Video above is

Our Universe/s (whether they are Holograms, or not) are absolutely Created in the Language of MATHEMATICS.

Therefore, I strongly believe that
AL-LAH has Created the whole Universe/s and the whole Scripture (=QURAN TESTAMENT)
based on a perfectly parallel "19" coded, SYMMETRICAL --MATHEMATICAL-- FORMULA/S,

HE has already granted unto us Magnificent PROOFS in this regard,
and inshaAL-LAH, will continue to show HIS Signs in this regard, soon (=41/53 & 27/93)!

Remain in peace/salaam.

Bender

Peace Imran,
,
Logical fallacies of false premise and unwarranted assumption.

If creation is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite and limited. The Creator would be separate from the creation, therefore the Creator will end somewhere and creation would begin somewhere, and then 2115 is falsified because then the Creator will not be everywhere.

You give Him dimensions and then come up with contradictions you just have invented yourself.
Wajhu Allah is NOT Allah (just like a painting of Van Gogh is not Van Gogh). That you do not understand this, does not make Him a creature.

1121 indicates unity of the Creator which actually indicates all creation is part of the Creator. There is nothing other than the infinite Creator in reality. So 1121 actually is evidence that creation is part of the Creator. "Ahad" means one/unity not "unique". Please don't deliberately mistranslate.

Your understanding is not THE understanding, it's just a guess.

Per 1124 the Creator is still unique even when creation is its part because the creation is not comparable to the Creator.

In your reasoning He is comparable, as He is part of His own creation, thus shares at least 1 similarity.

In 1122 you are mistranslating "samad". Show me where it means "indivisible" if you are truthful, otherwise it would be a blatant lie from you.

Sad-Miim-Dal = chief, lord, eternal, one to whom obedience is rendered, one to whom recourse is had, one who is independent, everything goes back to him as its source.

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

No human here on earth has a clue what samad means, including you and including PRL.
It is used 1 time, so every translation is just a wild guess.

The last meaning actually indicates all creation is part of the Creator because the Creator is the source and everything goes back to the source eventually. So 1122 actually proves that all creation is part of the Creator.

Only in your theory.

Please do not invent/fabricate meanings to deceive/mislead/misguide others.

you do the same with your theories, how is that different?

We are all free to give our opinions just like you.
Some believe they are part of God, some believe they are God, some believe in a flat earth, some believe in Santa and some believe in E.T..

Bender

+1 to that..

I heard the same argument from a Jewish Rabbi around 15 years ago...
He was trying to explain to me why God is "Echad" and not "Yachid" in Hebrew..

If a Jewish Rabbi said it then it must be true.

truthseeker11

Peace LastDay3,

This is called logical fallacy of strawman.

I did not assign to God a portion from its servants, but my concept is a portion of God was assigned to its servants (a portion of God became the creation, not that the creation became God). Nice try but failed miserably. Try as much as you can but you will not be able to falsify 2115. You will always fail miserably. If any verse claims that creation is not a part of God then it contradicts 2115 because God is everywhere. If creation is not part of God then God would be limited and finite because God will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere. So God will not be everywhere which contradicts with 2115.

Nothing and No one was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.

Then God will be finite and limited because God will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere and therefore God will not be everywhere and 2115 will be contradicted and falsified.

Keep trying. You will never, never, never, never, never............. (to infinity) be able to disprove 2115.

Peace

LastDay3

Peace LastDay3,

This is called logical fallacy of strawman.

I did not assign to God a portion from its servants, but my concept is
a portion of God was assigned to its servants (a portion of God became the creation, not that the creation became God).

.......................

Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,

But when/if a "portion" of God became the creation (according to your claim above)
then that whole creation would automatically be (nothing else but absolutely) a "portion" of God, from the very beginning!
I cannot see any other logical conclusion here.

And in QURAN TESTAMENT, it is clearly and unmistakably refuted, here again, thus

==========
15- And they even assigned to HIM a portion/fragment/piece/part (=juzan) of HIS own servants (=e.g.

by mistakenly or wrongfully claiming that
a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of God became the creation
and thereby that whole creation is indeed a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of God, from the very beginning!

Surely, the human being is profoundly unappreciative.

(QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)

Because according to QURAN TESTAMENT,

the whole Creation (i.e. =Heavens and Earth and everything between them)
was/is NEVER a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH;

but the whole Creation (i.e. =Heavens and Earth and everything between them)
was/is ABSOLUTELY and ONLY a "servant" of AL-LAH, from the very Beginning,
here again thus

==========
65- HE is the "LORD" (="RABB") of the Heavens and the Earth and everything between them.

(i.e. =the Heavens and the Earth and everything between them is
thus ABSOLUTELY and ONLY a "Servant" (="Abd") of HIM, from the very Beginning.)

So you shall serve HIM and be patient in HIS service.
Do you know anything/anyone that is like HIM? (i.e. =Can anything/anyone be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH?

NEVER and in NO WAY, at all = please, clearly and unmistakably see it again in Chapter/Verse No. 43/15 above,
in the first place.)

QURAN TESTAMENT 19/65

Try as much as you can but you will not be able to falsify 2115. You will always fail miserably.

If any verse claims that creation is not a part of God then it contradicts 2115 because God is everywhere.

If creation is not part of God then God would be limited and finite because God will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere.

So God will not be everywhere which contradicts with 2115.
..............

Dear brother/friend, before hastily jumping into wrong/mistaken conclusions based on wrong/mistaken understandings of other Verses,
hear this

Yes, first of all, we can absolutely see that
this Verse above (=43/15) most clearly and unmistakably claims that

Creation was/is NEVER a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.

and it does NOT contradict with this Verse (=2/115) at all,
because AL-LAH is absolutely Everywhere with HIS Limitless & Infinite Powers,
as clearly emphasized here

=================================
And the exact similar/same Understanding must absolutely be valid
for all of these Allegorical Terms in QURAN TESTAMENT, here

"Face of AL-LAH"
(=i.e. the Absolute/Infinite Seeing & Hearing & Controlling & Governing "Power of AL-LAH" =13/22 & ......

"Hands of AL-LAH"
(=i.e. the Absolute/Infinite Granting & Helping "Power of AL-LAH" =5/64 & ......

"Eyes of AL-LAH"
(=i.e. the Absolute/Infinite Watching & Guarding "Power of AL-LAH" =20/39 & ......

In any of these Allegorical Terms above
the Individual/Personal "Presence of AL-LAH" is Not indicated therein,

because again, HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse, in the first place =70/4
in my previous post above).

Finally, I believe, this is one of the most Critical and Important Issue in the whole Realm of Religion,
because how and in what manner we believe in AL-LAH
may change our whole perspective, and even our whole personality, inside and out,

because --(in my Understanding,
absolutely mistakenly and/or wrongfully)-- believing that

whole creation is a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of God, from the very beginning!

may cause all kind of ill, or sick, or even evil effects and consequences
that may eventually and eternally harm any human-being --in all physical and mental and intellectual aspects-- inside and out
because these "Messiah Dajjal" (="Anti Christ") ideologies
may totally deceive them and take them under their full control,
as I urgently explained and strongly emphasized in my previous post above

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393331#msg393331

So finally, I sincerely and wholeheartedly invite you, dear brother/friend TruthSeeker11,
and all honest and sincere TruthSeekers, worldwide,
to clearly and unmistakably see the Fact that

** the whole Creation, from the very beginning,
was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)

** because our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse, in the first place =70/4
in my previous post above).
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393331#msg393331

** Our Lord AL-LAH (=HIS Individual/Personal Presence at HIS Highest Station above =70/4,
and HIS Individual/Personal Noor (=Light/Energy) which shines absolutely unto Everywhere/Everything here (=24/35)
from HIS Highest Station above =70/4,

is absolutely Different/Separate/Distinct from all Things we can ever imagine,
and can Never be detected by Humans (with no technological devices whatsoever) here =6/103.

(*even that universal "dark energy" ---which can never be compared to our LORD's Individual/Personal Noor (=Light/Energy)---
cannot be detected up to now (with no technological devices whatsoever) here yet, ..............

Only those who commemorate AL-LAH wholeheartedly and constantly may be granted by AL-LAH
with HIS Individual/Personal Noor (=Light/Energy) to shine upon them and absolutely surround/permeate them
(=24/35) from HIS Highest Station above =70/4

to give them absolute Happiness & Serenity & Joy & Security (=10/62-64),
Constantly, here and in the Hereafter, forever, inshaAL-LAH. (=24/35-3

Remain in peace/salaam.

imrankhawaja

about 2 115 . lets have clear look into it... and after very next verse there is something more to ponder about... lets play guys...

2115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence./there is God's countenance/there is the face(mathphorically) of God ...God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

2116 But they say, ?God has begotten a son!? Glorified is He! Never! Unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and earth. All things and beings in the Universe are subservient/humble/dutiful to Him.

its like a crystal clear for the people who possess intelligence what quran is talking about here...

clearly in summary to God belong whatever is in the heaven and earth.. he did not begot a son of any inherent as a part ... annd all things to him are submitted according to the laws he design for them...

but again for people who can claim siruis star was inhabited with human aliens they can understand this verse whatever they like to !

peace and God bless you all...

truthseeker11

Peace all,

LastDay3's post has logical fallacies of false premise and unwarranted assumption. It is futile discussing with someone who deliberately misinterprets and lies about the book ("wajh" misinterpreted as "power&quot and then bases discussion on the misinterpretation and lie.

Anyone can see that LastDay3 failed miserably to disprove 2115 yet again despite such a long post. I thank him though for drawing attention to 6103 which also proves the Creator is infinite and proves all creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator.

He can keep trying to cover up the truth, but he will fail miserably again and again.No one will ever be able to prove the Creator is finite and limited.

Per 2115 the Creator is everywhere so the Creator is infinite. The creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator because if creation is separate from the Creator then the Creator will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere and the Creator will not be everywhere and 2115 will be falsified. Per 2115 the Creator is everywhere so the creation is a part of the infinite Creator.

6103 also proves the Creator is infinite so creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator.

2435 also proves all creation is made up of noor of the infinite Creator.

A part can never be comparable to the whole and the whole can never be comparable to its part.

Anything that contradicts with the fact that the Creator is infinite and everywhere as per 2115 cannot be the truth. So either it is mistranslation or misinterpretation or is evidence of possible tampering. Sanaa manuscripts are indisputable archeological evidence of possible tampering with the original text of the quran.

THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THE REALITY OF INFINITE CREATOR.

There is nothing other than the one infinite Creator in reality. Claiming the creation is separate from the Creator is accepting there is something other than the Creator in reality, which is setting up partners with the Creator, which contradicts with 1121. It also makes the Creator finite and limited which contradicts with 2115 and 6103. It also goes against 2435.

I will disregard those who deliberately misinterpret quranic words to lie about the infinite Creator to deceive, mislead and misguide others.

378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

I refuse to take part in circular discussions so no further posts from me on this topic. Feel free to discard my understanding if it does not resonate with you.

Peace

hawk99

Peace

For those who say Allah is everywhere do you mean physically,
as physically a part of everything?

pr

imrankhawaja

378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

exactly.... i m 100 agree...

pr

imrankhawaja

Peace

For those who say Allah is everywhere do you mean physically,
as physically a part of everything?

pr

nope they have no idea what God is , lol

God is not a thing

infact whatever understanding anybody can get is nothinng more than material based idea... even in the sense of methaphorical idea , it will b jjust and idea nothing reality.... moses try to see reality but God clearly told to him moses u cannot see me... and he understnd after that...lol

i hope people will get understand too... no image can grasp the image of God, nothinng can be compared to God... nothing is equal/similar to God...

hail

LastDay3

.............

Anything that contradicts with the fact that the Creator is infinite and everywhere as per 2115 cannot be the truth.

So either it is mistranslation or misinterpretation or is evidence of possible tampering.

Sanaa manuscripts are indisputable archeological evidence of possible tampering with the original text of the quran.

THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THE REALITY OF INFINITE CREATOR.

.............

Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,

Your statements above is an enough evidence
and sincerely should also be a good "wake up call" for you, dear Brother/Friend,
because it seems to me that you got yourself (emotionally/mentally/fanatically) deeply plunged
in this utterly mistaken/wrongful idea

"the whole creation Must be a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD!"

to the point that even when/if you clearly see with your own eyes that
QURAN TESTAMENT conclusively and unmistakably refutes that utterly mistaken/wrongful idea above,
and teaches us The Absolute Truth, also in this respect, Perfectly,
here

====================================
** the whole Creation, from the very beginning,
was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)

** because our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse, in the first place

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4)

in my previous post above).

you still cannot refute such baseless satanic speculations & fantasies
(i.e. =galactic federation, reptilian race, 3rd density human aliens in sirius, etc.)
I am a little bit familiar with such speculations & fantasies
because I have beloved --but unfortunately, also pretty "naive" in this respect hypno-- friends
who are deeply plunged into it,

*Honestly, I can clearly see that such satanic speculations and fantasies
are perfectly foretold in QURAN TESTAMENT here (=6/112-113)
and our Lord AL-LAH also perfectly teaches us how to clearly and
decisively refute it, again here (=6/114).

but you think that QURAN may have been tampered with, because it does Not support
but fundamentally and totally Refutes this satanic idea/agenda above

"the whole creation Must be a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD!"

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)

So, I sincerely and wholeheartedly recommend you, my dear Fellow/Friend, TruthSeeker11,
to clearly see all of these MAGNIFICENT EVIDENCE & PROOFS here, first of all

Perfectly "114" Chapters & "6346" Verses in total in QURAN TESTAMENT =78/29 (1)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf042.html

Perfectly "114" Chapters & "6346" Verses in total in QURAN TESTAMENT =78/29 (2)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf043.html

Precisely "112" + "2" Basmalahs in/of QURAN TESTAMENT =7829 (1)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf045.html

Precisely "112" + "2" Basmalahs in/of QURAN TESTAMENT =7829 (2)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf046.html

to clearly understand that
we thus absolutely have a GOLDEN TEXT (=QURAN TESTAMENT) above, in this Final Age/Millennium now,
which can clearly be witnessed by all Humanity, generation after generation, to the End of the World,
to clearly and unmistakably understand that

Absolutely and Only AL-LAH can be its Author and Protector (=17/88 & 85/21-22), for all Eternity.

Thereby, when/if we wholeheartedly repent and return to our Lord AL-LAH,
HE may Guide us into HIS Perfect Way by HIS

Most Superb and Matchless Heavenly TEXT (=QURAN TESTAMENT) above, (=5/16)

and can grant unto each and everyone of us, my dear Fellow/Friend TruthSeeker11,
Eternal Salvation and Everlasting Joy & Happiness, forever, inshaAL-LAH. (=7/42-43)

Remain in peace/salaam.

LastDay3

Salaam/Peace to All,

finally, here we should absolutely see and clearly understand the Great Wisdom of AL-LAH
in Creating everything

absolutely Not as a Partner (=Shareek) to HIMSELF (=6/163),

and

absolutely Not as a Portion/Fragment/Piece/Part (=Juzan) of HIMSELF (=43/15).

Therefore, I strongly believe that
our Lord AL-LAH thus creates everything

--(not "inside" but)-- absolutely "outside" of HIS Individual/Personal Presence (=HE is, of course,
Absolutely Capable of Creating whatever HE wills "outside" of HIS Individual/Personal Presence =36/79, 82-83)---
in order Not to make them as

Partner (=Shareek) to HIMSELF (=6/163),

and

Portion/Fragment/Piece/Part (=Juzan) of HIMSELF (=43/15).

And again, also and especially for this reason, when HE creates the Heavens and the Earth and everything between them,
HE also creates, in the first place, that immense absolute void (in which there is absolutely no matter/energy,
even no quantum fluctuations, etc. = absolute nothingness therein)
and places this immense absolute void between HIS Individual/Personal Presence and HIS creation (=i.e. all Heavens
and the Earth and everything between them),
that no one can NEVER claim that

"the whole creation Must be a partner (=Shareek) of GOD!" (=6/163)

"the whole creation Must be a portion/fragment/piece/part (=Juzan) of GOD!" (=43/15)

====================
4- the Angels and the Spirit (=i.e. Gabriel, =16/102) ascend to HIM (=AL-LAH)
in a day whose length/measure is fifty thousand years.

(QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4)

So, all of these Angels together with Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) perfectly leading them above
--(ascending unimaginably much faster than speed of Light)--

thus after passing beyond all boundaries (=i.e. boundaries of all Heavens and the Earth and everything between them)
must continue thereafter to go (through that immense absolute void above wherein there is absolutely no matter/energy,
even no quantum fluctuations, etc. = absolute nothingness therein)
at least for a fifty thousand years more (in our calculation here)
--(again ascending unimaginably much faster than speed of Light therein)--

finally, to be able to ascend to our Lord AL-LAH at the end of their magnificent Ascent above.

So that we may clearly and unmistakably understand that
our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence is
absolutely above and beyond all Heavens and the Earth and everything between them,
above us,

(=i.e. HE is Individually/Personally thus absolutely Separate/Distinct above and beyond all HIS Creation);

and thereby, most importantly, it means
No one and Nothing was never and is never and can never be a "portion/share/part/piece" of our Lord AL-LAH,
because HE was-is Individually/Personally thus absolutely Separate/Distinct above and beyond all HIS Creation,
from the very Beginning, here

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4 & 43/15)

And at the same time, our Lord AL-LAH clearly and unmistakably informs us about

HIS Limitless & Infinite Powers over all of HIS Creation (=i.e. all Heavens and the Earth and everything between them),
at any moment, at any place, (=2/115 & 57/4 & 58/7 & ......),

and so, when/if HE wills to annihilate all of HIS Creation (=i.e. all Heavens and the Earth and everything between them),
HE Himself does Not lose a thing of HIS Individual/Personal Presence & Existence, (=28/88)
because all of HIS Creation (=i.e. all Heavens and the Earth and everything between them),

was not and is not and can not be a "portion/share/part/piece" of our Lord AL-LAH,

because HE was-is Individually/Personally thus absolutely Separate/Distinct above and beyond all HIS Creation,
from the very Beginning, again here

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4 & 43/15) (=28/88)

But when Iblees and those Jinn Satans under his Command thus deceive the people
with such baseless speculations and fantasies, as clearly explained here (=6/112-113),
and thus made them --mistakenly/wrongfully-- believe that

"the whole creation Must be a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD,
from the very Beginnning!"

then all kinds of ill, or sick, or evil effects and consequences
follow it, and it may eventually and eternally harm any human-being --in all physical and mental and intellectual aspects-- inside and out
because these "Messiah Dajjal" (="Anti Christ") ideologies
may totally deceive them and take them under their full control,
as I urgently explained and strongly emphasized in my previous post above

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393331#msg393331

because after making people --mistakenly/wrongfully-- believe that

"the whole creation Must be a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD,
from the very Beginning!"

then Iblees and those Jinn Satans under his Command (=6/112-113),
in the second step,

=can make them easily prostrate before idols/statues (=claiming that it is a totally "innocent & perfect" form of worship
because "those idols/statues are not foreigners
but they are already a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD HIMSELF!" So, "They are perfect Manifestations of GOD HIMSELF!"
(*how many generations have been deceived in this way, in the history of Humankind =36/60-62)

=can make them easily prostrate before birds/animals (=claiming that it is a totally "innocent & perfect" form of worship
because "those birds/animals are not foreigners
but they are already a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD HIMSELF!" So, "They are perfect Manifestations of GOD HIMSELF!"
(*how many generations have been deceived in this way, in the history of Humankind =36/60-62
how about numerous Hindus in present time?)

=can make them easily prostrate before Sun/Stars/Moon (=claiming that it is a totally "innocent & perfect" form of worship
because "those Sun/Stars/Moon are not foreigners
but they are already a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD HIMSELF!" So, "They are perfect Manifestations of GOD HIMSELF!"
(*how many generations have been deceived in this way, in the history of Humankind =36/60-62)

and finally, --(as the Worst Thing, which could potentially destroy all humanity,
because it caused in the past and may always cause again
"bloody wars" and "utter persecution and murder" of millions of innocent human-beings)--

=can make them easily prostrate before Humans (=claiming that it is a totally "innocent & perfect" form of worship
because "those Humans are not foreigners
but they are already a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD HIMSELF!" So, "They are perfect Manifestations of GOD HIMSELF!"
(*how many generations have been deceived in this way, in the history of Humankind =36/60-62
how about numerous Crusaders in the past, and numerous Radical Evangelical Christians in present time?
how about all kinds of Sects in all Religions, worldwide,
who see their --psychologically/mentally/intellectually-- deranged Human Leaders/Priests/Imams
as "perfect Manifestations of GOD HIMSELF!" (=i.e. in reality they are "false Mahdis" & "false Messiahs") of/in present time!

So, these are the "Messiah Dajjal" (="Anti Christ") ideologies & armies
that are utterly condemned and absolutely refuted by our Lord AL-LAH

in QURAN TESTAMENT here (43/15 = 5/72-74 = 9/30-31 = 5/17-18 = .............)

So finally, again, a Truthful Reminder for each and every
Dear "Truth-Seeker" Brothers/Sisters & Fellows/Friends with us,
here

Thereby, when/if we clearly see and absolutely and decisively refute
these "Messiah Dajjal" (="Anti Christ") ideologies above,

which is always based on this fundamentally mistaken/wrongful idea

"the whole creation (=i.e. also and especially "humans" in this respect) Must be a portion/fragment/piece/part of GOD,
from the very Beginning!"

which is absolutely, clearly and unmistakably refuted

in QURAN TESTAMENT =(43/15),

and thus wholeheartedly repent and return to our One and Only Lord AL-LAH, (=25/68-69-70-71)
HE may Guide us into HIS Perfect Way by HIS

Most Superb and Matchless Heavenly MESSAGE (=QURAN TESTAMENT) above, (=5/16)

and can grant unto each and every one of us
Eternal Salvation and Everlasting Joy & Happiness, forever, inshaAL-LAH. (=7/42-43 & 36/54-58)

Remain in peace/salaam.

truthseeker11

Peace all,

I had to point out this important issue to the general reader.

Per 2115 the Creator is everywhere, therefore infinite, so all creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator, otherwise if all creation is not part of the infinite Creator then the Creator will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere and therefore the Creator will be finite and limited and will not be everywhere. 6103 also proves an infinite Creator.

2435 clearly tells us the infinite Creator is the noor of the creation which indicates creation is made of the noor of the infinite Creator.

Nothing other than the infinite Creator exists in reality. If one accepts the Creator being finite and limited and creation being separate, then something other than the infinite Creator exists in reality, which will be setting up partners with the infinite Creator.

This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the Creator is infinite thus all creation is part of the infinite Creator.

LastDay3 is creating contradiction with 2115, 6103, and 2435 by trying to prove that the Creator is not everywhere and is not infinite using other verses. Since that causes contradiction in the quran, he is obviously misinterpreting the other verses thereby basing his conclusion on false and fabricated premises. This is called the logical fallacy of either unwarranted assumption or false premise.

One can use the same logic against me but then he/she will have to prove the Creator is finite and limited according to 2115.

The only way LastDay3 tried to overcome this glaring contradiction with 2115 is by deliberately misinterpreting "wajh" as "power" in 2115, thereby PROPAGATING FALSEHOOD TO OTHERS AND DECEIVING, MISLEADING AND MISGUIDING OTHERS.

He has already shown that he will go to any length to misinterpret a quranic word (by deliberately misinterpreting "wajh" as "power&quot to confound the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth, so he cannot be trusted about any other interpretations. As far as I am concerned, he has lot all credibility by this tactic.

378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

371 "O people of the Book, why do you confound the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"

1781 And say "The truth has come and falsehood has perished. Falsehood is always bound to perish!"

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Actually, the ancient interpretation has some clear inconsistencies, but like you say they are also most probably interpretation errors.

But brother, please be milder in your approach and highlight the points in a constructive and confident manner that does not include strong emotion (instinctive "bite&quot. I have failed myself in the past to counter people in a controlled manner, especially under sarcastic provocation, but it is something to consider. It is true for all of us. No offense, brother. General advice in order to pass to the ethereal state of being.

If your discussion with them has come to circular reasoning (repeating the same arguments with neither part accepting the other's testimony) it tends to be better to leave it at that. You can end it with clearly highlighting the flaw in their logic and why it is illogical, much as you often do. But remember to employ perfect logic to make your Developer (Rabb or insert own descriptive label yourself, e.g infinite creator?) exceed expectations.

Be well
Amenuel

LastDay3

Peace all,

I had to point out this important issue to the general reader.

Per 2115 the Creator is everywhere, therefore infinite, so all creation has to be a "part" of the infinite Creator,

otherwise if all creation is not "part" of the infinite Creator then the Creator will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere

and therefore the Creator will be finite and limited and will not be everywhere.

...............

Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,

unless you can get rid of your fundamentally mistaken/wrongful reasoning above --(which may be stemming from the fact that
you may have gotten yourself --psychologically/mentally/emotionally-- deeply plunged into this
utterly mistaken/wrongful Assumptions above--

(and I guess, probably due to the influence of your such bad friends above (=6/112-113) from Galactic Federation
and 3rd density human aliens in Sirius therein above >D hypno >D =6/112-113)

unfortunately, you may not be able to SEE this Perfectly Clear and Solid FACT --(no matter how many times I clearly emphasized it above,
in all of those Crystal Clear Verses in QURAN TESTAMENT, in all of those previous posts).

But here is the Summary specially for you
(because I still and will always truly love you and deeply care for you,
and will remain patient, inshaAL-LAH, till you clearly get it
no matter how much longer it may take for you), my dear Fellow/Friend TruthSeeker11.

So please, absolutely hear this

=The Creator (=AL-LAH) is Everywhere
with HIS Limitless & Infinite --(Knowing and Seeing and Hearing and Controlling and Governing and Judging)-- Powers

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 2/115 = 6/59 & 57/4 & 58/7 & ............)

but HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s and
all Things we can ever imagine, above us,
And for this reason,

====================
4- the Angels and the Spirit (=i.e. Gabriel, =16/102) ascend to HIM (=AL-LAH)
in a day whose length/measure is fifty thousand years.

(QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4)

all of these Angels together with Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) perfectly leading them above
MUST make this Magnificent Ascent above in 50.000 Years (*please, absolutely see it again in my previous post above)
finally, to be able to ascend to our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence at the end of their Magnificent Ascent above.

But
"If the Creator were everywhere with His Individual/Personal/Physical Presence
and so everything were "part" of the Creator in His Individual/Personal/Physical Presence"
(according to your mistaken/wrongful assumption that you keep on repeating above, blindly, again and again, ......)

then why all of these Angels together with Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) above
should bother themselves with such a Huge Task of such a Magnificent Ascent
which takes 50.000 Years for them --(it must be unimaginably enormous/immense Journey & Phenomenon for us)--
to be able to ascend to our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence at the end of their Magnificent Ascent above?

So, even just this one Verse alone above
clearly and unmistakably proves that all your assumptions (in that quote at the very beginning above)
are fundamentally wrongful/mistaken, from the very beginning!

And all of your other (basically similar/same type of) mistaken/wrongful assumptions above have already clearly been addressed,
and they have most decisively and unmistakably been refuted
in all of these crystal clear Verses in QURAN TESTAMENT

(70/4 = 43/15 & 42/11 & 28/88 & 112/1-4 & ...........)

they are clearly presented here
in each of these previous posts above

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393331#msg393331

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393391#msg393391

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393592#msg393592

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393671#msg393671

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393723#msg393723

Your only enthusiastic supporter/friend here --(who may be in a much worse condition than you, in this respect),
because you still --mistakenly/wrongfully-- imply that

=vibrating strings of energy (and the whole creation and so automatically you yourself) are "part" of God!
*probably, because of such bad "inspirations" of your such bad friends above (=6/112-113) from Galactic Federation and
3 rd density human/jinn aliens >D >D >D therein, (=6/112-113)

and he may still be --mistakenly/wrongfully-- implying that

=vibrating strings of energy (and the whole creation and so automatically he himself) is God!
*probably, because of such bad "inspirations" of his such bad friends above (=6/112-113) from Galactic Federation and
6 th density human/jinn aliens >D >D >D >D >D >D therein. (=6/112-113)

But I still and will always truly love both of you and deeply care for both of you,
as my dear Fellow/Friends,
and will again wholeheartedly recommend you to read

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 6/114)

to completely get rid of that satanic influence & intoxication of those
3 rd density or 6 th density human/jinn aliens above (=6/112-113),

and all of us immediately and wholeheartedly repent and return to our Lord AL-LAH

here (=QURAN TESTAMENT 6/114),

that we may all together be perfectly Guided and abundantly Blessed by our One and Only Lord AL-LAH,
forever, inshaAL-LAH,

as it is sincerely and wholeheartedly recommended
for each and every one of us, here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393722#msg393722

Remain in peace/salaam.

truthseeker11

Peace everyone,

LastDay3 fails miserably yet again in his attempt to prove the Creator is finite and limited and that creation is not a part of the infinite Creator.

First he commits logical fallacy of red herring by babbling about irrelevant things which reveals his ignorance.

Then he commits deductive fallacy (false conclusion). 4315 says "they appointed a share to him from his servants" which does not disprove that creation is part of God. It would have opposed that premise only if it had instead said "they appointed a share from him to his servants". My premise is that a share is appointed from God to his creation. I never claimed that God is a part of the creation.

Then LastDay3 commits logical fallacy of unwarranted assumption by misinterpreting 704 to try to make the Creator finite and limited. This sign talks about the lifespan of angels and spirit, that they return to God in a long time. The same word has been used in 228 to mean return to God after death, so it cannot be the time taken to ascend to God in 704, but can only imply return of angels and spirit to God (after taking some time to complete their tasks).

Then he blatantly lies yet again and deliberately misinterprets "wajh" as "power" in 2115 to deceive, mislead and misguide others by his fabrication in a futile attempt to show the Creator is finite and limited. This is logical fallacy of false premise.

378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

2115 and 6103 clearly indicate the Creator is infinite and everywhere, thus creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator. 2435 clearly indicates creation is made of noor of the Creator thereby being a part of the Creator. There is no way around this.

371 "O people of the Book, why do you confound the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"

1781 And say "The truth has come and falsehood has perished. Falsehood is always bound to perish!"

Peace