Takes time to reach God?
-
Peace all,
Anyone can cross reference the usage of "wajh" in the quran and see that it cannot mean "power" as used in the quran. Additionally no classical Arabic dictionary gives this meaning. The meaning of "power" for "wajh" in the quran is a conjecture and fabrication.
The quran consistently uses words derived from the root "qaf-waw-ya" to mean power, especially in relation to God, for example "quwwata" (2165, 1839, 5158, 8120).
378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.
To anyone who twists meaning of quranic words like this, and deceives/misguides/misleads others
Peace be upon you, we do not seek the ignorant (2855, 2563).
-
But the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb
this statement is not true in light of this
1124 and there is nothing that could be compared with Him.
peace
God bless you.. -
They are not rabb but a part of rabb (a tiny manifestation/extension/radiation of its noor)
this is also wrong in light of this...
1121 Say, "He is God, the One and Unique.
1122 "God, the Absolute/First-cause,the Indivisible,the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being,Absolutely Independent
1123 "Never did He beget, nor was He begotten
1124 And there is absolutely none like Him."/nothing that could be compared with Him/there is none who is His equal.God bless you
-
Peace,
God is everywhere? In dog poop? In a pig?
In a cow, so when we slaughter it we slaughter a part of God? nopepolice
God is located within everything = wrong...
the observance and watching of God is on everything everywhere.. even whats inside the atom is in the knowledge/authority/control/observation of God..
where God is located, we cannot fully understand.. but we know atleast this heavens and earth whatever is observable to us his dominon of supreme power and authoriity covers that all... and it may be just a cup of tea for him in a big unlimited departmenetaal store of his authoriity and controlling...
-
Peace Imran,
this is also wrong in light of this...
1121 Say, "He is God, the One and Unique.
1122 "God, the Absolute/First-cause,the Indivisible,the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being,Absolutely Independent
1123 "Never did He beget, nor was He begotten
1124 And there is absolutely none like Him."/nothing that could be compared with Him/there is none who is His equal.,
Logical fallacies of false premise and unwarranted assumption.-
If creation is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite and limited. The Creator would be separate from the creation, therefore the Creator will end somewhere and creation would begin somewhere, and then 2115 is falsified because then the Creator will not be everywhere.
-
1121 indicates unity of the Creator which actually indicates all creation is part of the Creator. There is nothing other than the infinite Creator in reality. So 1121 actually is evidence that creation is part of the Creator. "Ahad" means one/unity not "unique". Please don't deliberately mistranslate.
-
Per 1124 the Creator is still unique even when creation is its part because the creation is not comparable to the Creator.
-
In 1122 you are mistranslating "samad". Show me where it means "indivisible" if you are truthful, otherwise it would be a blatant lie from you.
Sad-Miim-Dal = chief, lord, eternal, one to whom obedience is rendered, one to whom recourse is had, one who is independent, everything goes back to him as its source.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
The last meaning actually indicates all creation is part of the Creator because the Creator is the source and everything goes back to the source eventually. So 1122 actually proves that all creation is part of the Creator.
Please do not invent/fabricate meanings to deceive/mislead/misguide others.
378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.
Peace
-
-
If creation is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite and limited. The Creator would be separate from the creation, therefore the Creator will end somewhere and creation would begin somewhere,
+1 to that..
I heard the same argument from a Jewish Rabbi around 15 years ago...
He was trying to explain to me why God is "Echad" and not "Yachid" in Hebrew.. -
Peace Imran,
Logical fallacies of false premise and unwarranted assumption.
peaace truth seeker,
logical fallacy is from your end
creation and creator not follow the same laws and rules..
creator of computer dnt need to become a computer for creating it...
how can you say if we are not a part of creation then creator will limited..?
what is the proof from quran everything is a part of creator...?
-
Peace Imran,
what is the proof from quran everything is a part of creator...?
Read all my posts again. Jafar could see the quranic proof I gave but you couldn't. If you still don't see it then I have no medicine for that.
Peace.
-
Peace Imran,
Read all my posts again. Jafar could see the quranic proof I gave but you couldn't. If you still don't see it then I have no medicine for that.
Peace.
medicine is for the people who are claiming something against God which they have no knowledge off... even the messengers did not claim what is the nature of God and how come you are so sure thats what the nature of creator, big claim without proof, and without the capacity of mind to understand the nature of creator...
peace
-
- Additionally, God "settling" upon a "throne" (324) also goes against God being everywhere. "Those who carry the throne" (407) implies that the throne is not everywhere, because if it is everywhere then no need to carry!
Peace
Another verse about the throne, where the Day of Judgment is discussed
6917 And the angels will be on its borders; and the Throne of your Lord will be carried, above them on that Day, by eight.
Root ayn r shn
Ayn-Ra-Shiin = to construct/build, make trellis (for grape-wine), make a vine-stalk, roof, raise (a house or structure), settle. arsh - throne, arbour, pavillion, roof, power, dominion, sovereignty.
PRL doesn't show the root mm lm for carried/bore so I'm not sure what the meanings of that word could be. Even still, "above them" does seem to imply that a space/area is being used up.
Maybe there's a better explanation we'll see one day.
-
PRL doesn't show the root mm lm for carried/bore so I'm not sure what the meanings of that word could be.
From PRL http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
= Haa-Miim-La = bore it, carried it, took it up, carried it, convey, show/manifest, carry a thing upon one's back or head, bear a burden, become pregnant with or conceive a child (woman), to go about spreading calumny or slander, give someone a beast to ride, mount someone upon a beast of burden, show or manifest anger, task or fatigue oneself, take a responsibility upon oneself, incite someone to do a thing, produce or put forth something , narrate and write down a thing , carry or do a thing, bear the burden of a calumny, to charge with a crime.
hamala vb. (1)
perf. act. 2286, 6146, 7189, 173, 1770, 1922, 1958, 20111, 3114, 3372, 3641, 4615, 5413, 6911
impf. act. 2248, 2286, 631, 7176, 992, 992, 1236, 138, 167, 1625, 1927, 20100, 2912, 2913, 2960, 3372, 3511, 407, 4147, 625, 625, 6917
impv. 1140
perf. pass. 6914
impf. pass. 2322, 3518, 4080
n.vb. 7189, 222, 222, 4615, 654, 654, 656, 656
pcple. act. 2912, 512hammalah n.f. 1114
hamulah n.f. 6142
himl n.m. 1272, 20101, 3518
hammala vb. (2)
impf. act. 2286
perf. pass. 2087, 2454, 2454, 625ihtamala vb. (
perf. act. 4112, 1317, 3358Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 282, 283, 284, 285, 286 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7ml
-
Peace Wakas,
From PRL http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
= Haa-Miim-La = bore it, carried it, took it up, carried it, convey, show/manifest, carry a thing upon one's back or head, bear a burden, become pregnant with or conceive a child (woman), to go about spreading calumny or slander, give someone a beast to ride, mount someone upon a beast of burden, show or manifest anger, task or fatigue oneself, take a responsibility upon oneself, incite someone to do a thing, produce or put forth something , narrate and write down a thing , carry or do a thing, bear the burden of a calumny, to charge with a crime.
hamala vb. (1)
perf. act. 2286, 6146, 7189, 173, 1770, 1922, 1958, 20111, 3114, 3372, 3641, 4615, 5413, 6911
impf. act. 2248, 2286, 631, 7176, 992, 992, 1236, 138, 167, 1625, 1927, 20100, 2912, 2913, 2960, 3372, 3511, 407, 4147, 625, 625, 6917
impv. 1140
perf. pass. 6914
impf. pass. 2322, 3518, 4080
n.vb. 7189, 222, 222, 4615, 654, 654, 656, 656
pcple. act. 2912, 512hammalah n.f. 1114
hamulah n.f. 6142
himl n.m. 1272, 20101, 3518
hammala vb. (2)
impf. act. 2286
perf. pass. 2087, 2454, 2454, 625ihtamala vb. (
perf. act. 4112, 1317, 3358Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 282, 283, 284, 285, 286 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7ml
Whoops. I didn't see the "Haa" folder. Thank you. I stand corrected. ;D
-
.................
Logical fallacy of strawman. I never said they (=vibrating strings of energy) are rabb.
They are not rabb but a part of rabb (a tiny manifestation/extension/radiation of its noor),
.................
Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,
I strongly disagree,
because it is Clearly and Unmistakably Emphasized in QURAN TESTAMENT thatNothing and No one was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.
==========
15- And they even assigned to HIM a portion/fragment/piece/part (=juzan) of HIS own servants (=for example
by mistakenly or wrongfully claiming that
Angels or/and Jesus or/and all Humans, collectively, or/and all Things (=Matter/Energy), completely were/are a "portion/share/piece/part" of HIM)!
Surely, the human being is profoundly unappreciative.(QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)
...........
Anyone can cross reference the usage of "wajh" in the quran and see that it cannot mean "power" as used in the quran.
Additionally no classical Arabic dictionary gives this meaning. The meaning of "power" for "wajh" in the quran is a conjecture and fabrication.The quran consistently uses words derived from the root "qaf-waw-ya" to mean power, especially in relation to God, for example "quwwata" (2165, 1839, 5158, 8120).
...........
Dear brother/friend, but I never said that
"Wajh" in Arabic means "Power,"
but I clearly said that
"Wajh" in Arabic means "Face,"
in this most specific Clear context hereSalaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,
this is how I understand that Verse, first of all,
here==========================
115- And to AL-LAH belong the East and the West,
so wherever you turn, there is the "Face of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Seeing & Hearing & Controlling & Governing "Power of AL-LAH" =20/46 & 57/4 & 58/7 & ......
X
Not the Individual/Personal "Presence of AL-LAH"
because HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse =70/4 in my previous post above).Certainly, AL-LAH is Encompassing (=Wasiun everywhere & everything with HIS such
Absolute "Knowledge" & "Mercy" here =7/156 & 20/98 & 40/7 & ......), Knowledgeable.QURAN TESTAMENT 2/115
I believe the exact similar/same Understanding is absolutely valid
for all of these Allegorical Terms in QURAN TESTAMENT, here"Face of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Seeing & Hearing & Controlling & Governing "Power of AL-LAH" =13/22 & ......
"Hands of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Granting & Helping "Power of AL-LAH" =5/64 & ......
"Eyes of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Watching & Guarding "Power of AL-LAH" =20/39 & ......
In any of these Allegorical Terms above
the Individual/Personal "Presence of AL-LAH" is Not indicated therein,because again, HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse, in the first place =70/4
in my previous post above).Is The Universe A Hologram?
https//youtu.be/iNgIl-qIklUSalaam/Peace Jafar,
thank you very much for that pretty short but essentially informative video above.
Whether "holographic principle" idea is true, or not, and our Universe is really a Hologram, or not,
--(AL-LAH can Absolutely create Universe/s based on such "holographic principle," when/if HE wills so (=36/79, 82-83)
and our Universe may perhaps indeed be one of those Holographic Universes HE has created)--but no matter what it is, I strongly believe
this Fundamental/Main/Essential Principle NEVER changesNothing and No one (=including Holographic Universe/s)
was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.(*Please, absolutely see it again
in this most Essential and important Chapter/Verse No. 43/15 in QURAN TESTAMENT above.)And the other most Critical and Important Information for me in that Video above is
Our Universe/s (whether they are Holograms, or not) are absolutely Created in the Language of MATHEMATICS.
Therefore, I strongly believe that
AL-LAH has Created the whole Universe/s and the whole Scripture (=QURAN TESTAMENT)
based on a perfectly parallel "19" coded, SYMMETRICAL --MATHEMATICAL-- FORMULA/S,HE has already granted unto us Magnificent PROOFS in this regard,
and inshaAL-LAH, will continue to show HIS Signs in this regard, soon (=41/53 & 27/93)!Remain in peace/salaam.
-
Peace Imran,
,
Logical fallacies of false premise and unwarranted assumption.- If creation is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite and limited. The Creator would be separate from the creation, therefore the Creator will end somewhere and creation would begin somewhere, and then 2115 is falsified because then the Creator will not be everywhere.
You give Him dimensions and then come up with contradictions you just have invented yourself.
Wajhu Allah is NOT Allah (just like a painting of Van Gogh is not Van Gogh). That you do not understand this, does not make Him a creature.- 1121 indicates unity of the Creator which actually indicates all creation is part of the Creator. There is nothing other than the infinite Creator in reality. So 1121 actually is evidence that creation is part of the Creator. "Ahad" means one/unity not "unique". Please don't deliberately mistranslate.
Your understanding is not THE understanding, it's just a guess.
- Per 1124 the Creator is still unique even when creation is its part because the creation is not comparable to the Creator.
In your reasoning He is comparable, as He is part of His own creation, thus shares at least 1 similarity.
- In 1122 you are mistranslating "samad". Show me where it means "indivisible" if you are truthful, otherwise it would be a blatant lie from you.
Sad-Miim-Dal = chief, lord, eternal, one to whom obedience is rendered, one to whom recourse is had, one who is independent, everything goes back to him as its source.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
No human here on earth has a clue what samad means, including you and including PRL.
It is used 1 time, so every translation is just a wild guess.The last meaning actually indicates all creation is part of the Creator because the Creator is the source and everything goes back to the source eventually. So 1122 actually proves that all creation is part of the Creator.
Only in your theory.
Please do not invent/fabricate meanings to deceive/mislead/misguide others.
you do the same with your theories, how is that different?
We are all free to give our opinions just like you.
Some believe they are part of God, some believe they are God, some believe in a flat earth, some believe in Santa and some believe in E.T.. -
Peace LastDay3,
This is called logical fallacy of strawman.
I did not assign to God a portion from its servants, but my concept is a portion of God was assigned to its servants (a portion of God became the creation, not that the creation became God). Nice try but failed miserably. Try as much as you can but you will not be able to falsify 2115. You will always fail miserably. If any verse claims that creation is not a part of God then it contradicts 2115 because God is everywhere. If creation is not part of God then God would be limited and finite because God will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere. So God will not be everywhere which contradicts with 2115.
Nothing and No one was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.
Then God will be finite and limited because God will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere and therefore God will not be everywhere and 2115 will be contradicted and falsified.
Keep trying. You will never, never, never, never, never............. (to infinity) be able to disprove 2115.
Peace
-
Peace LastDay3,
This is called logical fallacy of strawman.
I did not assign to God a portion from its servants, but my concept is
a portion of God was assigned to its servants (a portion of God became the creation, not that the creation became God)........................
Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,
But when/if a "portion" of God became the creation (according to your claim above)
then that whole creation would automatically be (nothing else but absolutely) a "portion" of God, from the very beginning!
I cannot see any other logical conclusion here.And in QURAN TESTAMENT, it is clearly and unmistakably refuted, here again, thus
==========
15- And they even assigned to HIM a portion/fragment/piece/part (=juzan) of HIS own servants (=e.g.by mistakenly or wrongfully claiming that
a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of God became the creation
and thereby that whole creation is indeed a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of God, from the very beginning!Surely, the human being is profoundly unappreciative.
(QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)
Because according to QURAN TESTAMENT,
the whole Creation (i.e. =Heavens and Earth and everything between them)
was/is NEVER a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH;but the whole Creation (i.e. =Heavens and Earth and everything between them)
was/is ABSOLUTELY and ONLY a "servant" of AL-LAH, from the very Beginning,
here again thus==========
65- HE is the "LORD" (="RABB") of the Heavens and the Earth and everything between them.(i.e. =the Heavens and the Earth and everything between them is
thus ABSOLUTELY and ONLY a "Servant" (="Abd") of HIM, from the very Beginning.)So you shall serve HIM and be patient in HIS service.
Do you know anything/anyone that is like HIM? (i.e. =Can anything/anyone be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH?NEVER and in NO WAY, at all = please, clearly and unmistakably see it again in Chapter/Verse No. 43/15 above,
in the first place.)QURAN TESTAMENT 19/65
Try as much as you can but you will not be able to falsify 2115. You will always fail miserably.
If any verse claims that creation is not a part of God then it contradicts 2115 because God is everywhere.
If creation is not part of God then God would be limited and finite because God will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere.
So God will not be everywhere which contradicts with 2115.
..............Dear brother/friend, before hastily jumping into wrong/mistaken conclusions based on wrong/mistaken understandings of other Verses,
hear thisYes, first of all, we can absolutely see that
this Verse above (=43/15) most clearly and unmistakably claims thatCreation was/is NEVER a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.
and it does NOT contradict with this Verse (=2/115) at all,
because AL-LAH is absolutely Everywhere with HIS Limitless & Infinite Powers,
as clearly emphasized here=================================
And the exact similar/same Understanding must absolutely be valid
for all of these Allegorical Terms in QURAN TESTAMENT, here"Face of AL-LAH"
(=i.e. the Absolute/Infinite Seeing & Hearing & Controlling & Governing "Power of AL-LAH" =13/22 & ......"Hands of AL-LAH"
(=i.e. the Absolute/Infinite Granting & Helping "Power of AL-LAH" =5/64 & ......"Eyes of AL-LAH"
(=i.e. the Absolute/Infinite Watching & Guarding "Power of AL-LAH" =20/39 & ......In any of these Allegorical Terms above
the Individual/Personal "Presence of AL-LAH" is Not indicated therein,because again, HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse, in the first place =70/4
in my previous post above).Finally, I believe, this is one of the most Critical and Important Issue in the whole Realm of Religion,
because how and in what manner we believe in AL-LAH
may change our whole perspective, and even our whole personality, inside and out,because --(in my Understanding,
absolutely mistakenly and/or wrongfully)-- believing thatwhole creation is a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of God, from the very beginning!
may cause all kind of ill, or sick, or even evil effects and consequences
that may eventually and eternally harm any human-being --in all physical and mental and intellectual aspects-- inside and out
because these "Messiah Dajjal" (="Anti Christ") ideologies
may totally deceive them and take them under their full control,
as I urgently explained and strongly emphasized in my previous post abovehttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393331#msg393331
So finally, I sincerely and wholeheartedly invite you, dear brother/friend TruthSeeker11,
and all honest and sincere TruthSeekers, worldwide,
to clearly and unmistakably see the Fact that** the whole Creation, from the very beginning,
was NEVER and is NEVER and can NEVER be a "portion/fragment/piece/part" of AL-LAH, period.(=QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15)
** because our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us, that only Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) and all those Angels with Him can reach there
in fifty-thousand years,
as we have clearly witnessed it in this Verse, in the first place =70/4
in my previous post above).
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393331#msg393331** Our Lord AL-LAH (=HIS Individual/Personal Presence at HIS Highest Station above =70/4,
and HIS Individual/Personal Noor (=Light/Energy) which shines absolutely unto Everywhere/Everything here (=24/35)
from HIS Highest Station above =70/4,is absolutely Different/Separate/Distinct from all Things we can ever imagine,
and can Never be detected by Humans (with no technological devices whatsoever) here =6/103.(*even that universal "dark energy" ---which can never be compared to our LORD's Individual/Personal Noor (=Light/Energy)---
cannot be detected up to now (with no technological devices whatsoever) here yet, ..............Only those who commemorate AL-LAH wholeheartedly and constantly may be granted by AL-LAH
with HIS Individual/Personal Noor (=Light/Energy) to shine upon them and absolutely surround/permeate them
(=24/35) from HIS Highest Station above =70/4to give them absolute Happiness & Serenity & Joy & Security (=10/62-64),
Constantly, here and in the Hereafter, forever, inshaAL-LAH. (=24/35-3Remain in peace/salaam.
-
about 2 115 . lets have clear look into it... and after very next verse there is something more to ponder about... lets play guys...
2115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence./there is God's countenance/there is the face(mathphorically) of God ...God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
2116 But they say, ?God has begotten a son!? Glorified is He! Never! Unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and earth. All things and beings in the Universe are subservient/humble/dutiful to Him.
its like a crystal clear for the people who possess intelligence what quran is talking about here...
clearly in summary to God belong whatever is in the heaven and earth.. he did not begot a son of any inherent as a part ... annd all things to him are submitted according to the laws he design for them...
but again for people who can claim siruis star was inhabited with human aliens they can understand this verse whatever they like to !
peace and God bless you all...
-
Peace all,
LastDay3's post has logical fallacies of false premise and unwarranted assumption. It is futile discussing with someone who deliberately misinterprets and lies about the book ("wajh" misinterpreted as "power" and then bases discussion on the misinterpretation and lie.
Anyone can see that LastDay3 failed miserably to disprove 2115 yet again despite such a long post. I thank him though for drawing attention to 6103 which also proves the Creator is infinite and proves all creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator.
He can keep trying to cover up the truth, but he will fail miserably again and again.No one will ever be able to prove the Creator is finite and limited.
Per 2115 the Creator is everywhere so the Creator is infinite. The creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator because if creation is separate from the Creator then the Creator will end somewhere and creation will begin somewhere and the Creator will not be everywhere and 2115 will be falsified. Per 2115 the Creator is everywhere so the creation is a part of the infinite Creator.
6103 also proves the Creator is infinite so creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator.
2435 also proves all creation is made up of noor of the infinite Creator.
A part can never be comparable to the whole and the whole can never be comparable to its part.
Anything that contradicts with the fact that the Creator is infinite and everywhere as per 2115 cannot be the truth. So either it is mistranslation or misinterpretation or is evidence of possible tampering. Sanaa manuscripts are indisputable archeological evidence of possible tampering with the original text of the quran.
THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THE REALITY OF INFINITE CREATOR.
There is nothing other than the one infinite Creator in reality. Claiming the creation is separate from the Creator is accepting there is something other than the Creator in reality, which is setting up partners with the Creator, which contradicts with 1121. It also makes the Creator finite and limited which contradicts with 2115 and 6103. It also goes against 2435.
I will disregard those who deliberately misinterpret quranic words to lie about the infinite Creator to deceive, mislead and misguide others.
378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.
I refuse to take part in circular discussions so no further posts from me on this topic. Feel free to discard my understanding if it does not resonate with you.
Peace
