Takes time to reach God?

[truthseeker11]

Peace everyone,

LastDay3 continues to blatantly lie and misinterpret to deceive, mislead, and misguide others as already shown. He continues to commit logical fallacies as outlined before and he has been unable to disprove the reality of an infinite Creator. 2115, 6103 and 2435 indicate beyond a shadow of doubt that the Creator is infinite and all creation is a part of the infinite Creator. His lie has drawn the attention of everyone to the undeniable reality of an infinite Creator who is present wherever we turn. There is nothing other than the one infinite Creator in reality.

The triliteral root ww jm h ( &#1607 occurs 78 times in the Quran, in five derived forms. Nowhere can it be interpreted as "power" for which the quran uses the the triliteral root qf ww y ( &#1610. Neither is that interpretation of "power" given in any classical Arabic dictionary. So interpreting it as "power" is nothing but a blatant lie and fabrication.

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=wjh
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=qwy

Everyone can see that LastDay3 blatantly lies in his discussions to propagate falsehood. If he continues to lie and propagate falsehood without backing it with evidence, and continues to repeat posts, I will have no choice but to report him for violating forum rules #2 and #9. This is my first and final warning to him (just as a courtesy otherwise there is already enough evidence of his violations and I could have reported him already). I will not post any further replies to him in this thread, but just file a formal complaint and report him if he violates those forum rules again.

Anxiously waiting for another violation by LastDay3.

Peace

[Man_of_Faith]

Actually, truthseeker.

I think LastDay3 actually honestly believes in what he is arguing and therefore it is not a lie. You must just proper terms and in that case LastDay3 is deluded rather than lying and he is probably honest in his conviction. If he goes for inconsistencies then he is arguing in an illogical and nonsensical way. You are right that he is making Rabb immensely finite and primitive, much like most people who believe in the sectarian interpretation of Quran

Be well
Amenuel

[LastDay3]

Everyone can see that LastDay3 blatantly lies in his discussions to propagate falsehood.
If he continues to lie and propagate falsehood without backing it with evidence, and continues to repeat posts,
I will have no choice but to report him for violating forum rules #2 and #9.

Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,
.........
but because of your psychological/mental/emotional attachment and captivity
to such human/jinn aliens and their news channels in Sirius above >D >D >D (=6/112-113)

they can still cause you to remain in such a total darkness, ignorance and blindness, in this respect above,
despite such crystal clear Verses in QURAN TESTAMENT above.

thus even to the point that
in your psychological/mental/emotional attachment and captivity to such aliens above >D >D >D (=6/112-113),
you can hastily go and take

this verb (=ra-ja-a = return of human beings to AL-LAH after their death here =2/28)

and hastily confuse it with

this verb (=a-ra-ja = ascend of Angels and Gabriel to AL-LAH here =70/4)!

Because this verb (=a-ra-ja = ascend) above, in QURAN TESTAMENT,
--(has nothing to do with this totally different verb (=ra-ja-a = return),
as you hastily and wrongfully assume above)--

but is always referring to "physical ascent" to a higher place/altitude

throughout the QURAN TESTAMENT
here =15/14 & 32/5 & 34/2 & 43/33 & 57/4 & 70/3-4

So, let's clearly see a perfect example here
--(like in the case of those "Angels" above,
now with regard to "Human-Beings" here)

====================
14- And if We opened for them (=Human-Beings) a gate in the Sky
and they were to continue ascending through it (into the Sky),
...........
(QURAN TESTAMENT 15/14)

So, this verb (=a-ra-ja = ascend) thus clearly and unmistakably refer to
"physical ascent" to Sky in QURAN TESTAMENT above.

But you still continue to misunderstand and misinterpret and misuse all crystal clear Verses above,
you even fabricate a "lifespan" for Angels, that you might have distort those crystal clear Verses above
and fit them into your utterly mistaken/wrongful agenda,
because of your psychological/mental/emotional attachment and captivity
to such 3rd density human/jinn aliens and their news channels in Sirius above >D >D >D (=6/112-113)

but it does Not work and will Never work against The TRUTH perfectly taught by AL-LAH,
so, you can only deceive yourself and the naive and gullible who would follow in your footsteps,
and then you may regret it, forever,
if you do not immediately repent and truthfully return to AL-LAH in this best manner here (=25/70-71),
my dear Fellow/Friend TruthSeeker11.

So, if you are truly a decent, honest and moral Human-Being, --(and I truly believe and sincerely hope you still can be),
my dear Fellow/Friend TruthSeeker11,
in your next reply please, start in the very beginning

with a Manifest and Sincere APOLOGY, and truthful REPENTANCE, first of all,

about why you have propagated such a Blatant LIE above?

(=i.e. you confused this verb (=ra-ja-a = return) with this verb (=a-ra-ja = ascend),
and then you even fabricated a "lifespan" for Angels,
in order to (mistakenly/wrongfully) distort crystal clear Verses in QURAN TESTAMENT,
that you might have fit them into that satanic agenda,

because you absolutely know that

even just this one Verse (=70/4) is Perfectly Sufficient

to completely destroy all your --mistaken/wrongful-- claims above,
as it is already emphasized in this previous post above

Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,

........

But here is the Summary specially for you
(because I still and will always truly love you and deeply care for you,
and will remain patient, inshaAL-LAH, till you clearly get it
no matter how much longer it may take for you), my dear Fellow/Friend TruthSeeker11.

So please, absolutely hear this

=The Creator (=AL-LAH) is Everywhere
with HIS Limitless & Infinite --(Knowing and Seeing and Hearing and Controlling and Governing and Judging)-- Powers

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 2/115 = 6/59 & 57/4 & 58/7 & ............)

but HIS Individual/Personal Presence is absolutely above and beyond all Universe/s and
all Things we can ever imagine, above us,
And for this reason,

====================
4- the Angels and the Spirit (=i.e. Gabriel, =16/102) ascend to HIM (=AL-LAH)
in a day whose length/measure is fifty thousand years.

(QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4)

all of these Angels together with Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) perfectly leading them above
MUST make this Magnificent Ascent above in 50.000 Years (*please, absolutely see it again in my previous post above)
finally, to be able to ascend to our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence at the end of their Magnificent Ascent above.

But
"If the Creator were everywhere with His Individual/Personal/Physical Presence
and so everything were "part" of the Creator in His Individual/Personal/Physical Presence"
(according to your mistaken/wrongful assumption that you keep on repeating above, blindly, again and again, ......)

---

then why all of these Angels together with Gabriel (Peace be upon Him) above
should bother themselves with such a Huge Task of such a Magnificent Ascent
which takes 50.000 Years for them --(it must be unimaginably enormous/immense Journey & Phenomenon for us)--
to be able to ascend to our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal Presence at the end of their Magnificent Ascent above?

---

So, even just this one Verse alone above
clearly and unmistakably proves that all your assumptions above
are fundamentally wrongful/mistaken, from the very beginning!

And all of your other (basically similar/same type of) mistaken/wrongful assumptions above
have already clearly been addressed,

and they have most decisively and unmistakably been refuted
in all of these crystal clear Verses in QURAN TESTAMENT

(70/4 = 43/15 & 42/11 & 28/88 & 112/1-4 & ...........)

they are clearly presented here
in each of these previous posts above

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393331#msg393331

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393391#msg393391

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393592#msg393592

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393671#msg393671

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.msg393723#msg393723

Remain in peace/salaam.

[LastDay3]

Actually, truthseeker.

I think LastDay3 actually honestly believes in what he is arguing and therefore it is not a lie.
You must just proper terms and in that case LastDay3 is "deluded" rather than lying and he is probably honest in his conviction.
............

..........
But the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb,
..........

Salaam/Peace Man of Faith,

I sincerely and wholeheartedly recommend you, my dear Fellow/Friend, to study and learn
what is a "delusion" and who can rightfully be called as "deluded",
according to QURAN TESTAMENT.

Your clear statement in that second quote above (=but the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb,)
may be a perfect example to help you clearly understand

=what "delusion" is,

=and who can rightfully be called as "deluded",

according to QURAN TESTAMENT (68/6 = 43/15 & 52/43).

So I sincerely and wholeheartedly recommend you, my dear Fellow/Friend, Man of Faith,
to decisively renounce your such clear and deep "delusions" above,
and immediately repent and return to AL-LAH, in this best manner here (=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/70-71),
for your Eternal Salvation and Everlasting Benefits, forever.

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/68-69-70-71-72-73-74-75-76)

Remain in peace/salaam.

[good_logic]

Peace Truthseeker11,Man Of Faith, LastDay3.

Please allow me to quote few verses as a reminder to all of us here, and as advise of how we learn from Qoran and the qualities we should seek for our salvation
1319
Is one who recognizes that your Lord's revelations to you are the truth equal to one who is blind? Only "Oul-AlAlbab"will take heed.

Brothers, you are debating the words of GOD. GOD clearly says here ,"Ouli-AlAlbab" should take heed. Ponder that word and let us continue
1320
They are the ones who fulfill their pledge to God, and do not violate the covenant.

GOD s instructions to us are to "fulfil the pledge" i.e follow Qoran instructions/code of conduct...etc Look below
1321
They join what God has commanded to be joined, reverence their Lord, and fear the dreadful reckoning.

Truthseeker , using "liar" and Man Of faith using "deluded" in their posts are not justified according to what I am reading in this thread so far.

Even if there was justification in using strong words, we should counter "evil with good" as Qoran advise us
1322
They steadfastly persevere in seeking their Lord, observe the Salat, spend from our provisions to them secretly and publicly, and counter evil with good. These have deserved the best abode.

What is wrong with countering with "good words" and using verses from Qoran?
Just because we understand differently, if one is sincerely trying to uncover the truth, does not mean "lying" or "deluded" if we disagree?
Sorry for going off topic.
Now coming back to topic, I will give a couple of examples of how Qoran does not follow lexicon definitions or man s grammar
Example 1- In my last verse above( 1322) "Wajh" in the verse does not mean real "face". It forms an expression.
So if I am saying "Ibtighaa wajh Rabbihim" means "seeking their Lord" am I "lying" or "deluded"? It makes sense to me unless someone shows me/evidence to me a better explanation that does not contradict other verses?
Example 2 In my first verse above ( 1319)"Aama" does not mean real"blind" .etc.

LastDay3 I have found your posts respectful so far. I am surprised at brothers Truthseeker and Man Of Faith as I found them to be trusworthy and sincere in the past.

May the Lord bless you all and guide you to His truth.
Peace.

[Man_of_Faith]

Good logic,

I actually reprimanded truthseeker for his harsh use of words. I told him that deluded is at least feasible.

Deluded I have used as the kindest kind of way saying someone is confused into believing something to be true while it is not. It is not of mean intention with how I use it.

One cannot be censor oneself utterly just because it might be sensitive to some readers. If the case is someone is deluded into believing something it is but fair to the one being deluded to be informed. I am offering help to avoid the delusion too.

If you have a better and gentler word of talking about someone's confusion into believing in disinformation then please tell me.

Be well
Amenuel

[Man_of_Faith]

And will you criticize Quran for using the Arabic word "kafar" then seeing it means what I am saying in English, i.e. deluded?

Be well
Amenuel

[good_logic]

Peace Man Of Faith.

Thank you for explaining.
Of course you should give your opinion as strongly as you feel justified by your "evidence".
The readers can then scrutinise that "evidence " .
Can claiming someone is "deluded" be done by a better evidenced argument?

God bless you.
Peace.

[Man_of_Faith]

If you can render someone's argument as clearly flawed and illogical it is highly probable that the person is deluded. Certainly it is better then if you have your own alternative too which is logically more sound.

And I can agree that it is easy to be deluded in this world and I have been it myself too, and it is nothing to be ashamed of but only to seek to be better informed and less biased. Often you are so certain about your conviction that you do not realize yourself how deluded you are.

Be well
Amenuel

[imrankhawaja]

sorry for joining the discussion again,,,

infact saying lastday deleude will not be fair becoz what he actually reject is ....

But the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb,

and he is true in it becoz thats what quran also telling us according to the interpretation which some of the people not accepted...

if we look in that angle than surely deleuded is one who reject the very clear message... but we dnt have a right to say anybody disbeleiver or deleuded becoz God knows well who is on right path,, everybody wil judged according to the knowledge they gain .. on the condition if they are loyal to God...

threating somebody like this is not a act of Godly person...

i hope everybpdy understand now

peace and God bless you all group

[good_logic]

Peace Man Of Faith.

When you say,quote
If you can render someone's argument as clearly flawed and illogical it is highly probable that the person is deluded

How did you come to such a conclusion? Or is it according to you?

I have not seen it in any of your posts in this thread.

Also ,when two people(A and B) disagree,there are 3 possibilities brother
1- A is right.
2- B is right.
3- Both A and B are wrong.
Therefore I disagree with you here,quote
Often you are so certain about your conviction that you do not realize yourself how deluded you are.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Man_of_Faith]

Peace Man Of Faith.

When you say,quote
If you can render someone's argument as clearly flawed and illogical it is highly probable that the person is deluded

How did you come to such a conclusion? Or is it according to you?

I have not seen it in any of your posts in this thread.

Also ,when two people(A and B) disagree,there are 3 possibilities brother
1- A is right.
2- B is right.
3- Both A and B are wrong.
Therefore I disagree with you here,quote
Often you are so certain about your conviction that you do not realize yourself how deluded you are.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

I said what I said. If you have sufficient input to nullify someone's claims and they still do not accept it then they are very likely deluded. My statement was coherent with what I continued to say.

I do not see the connection between your conclusion that there are three possibilities and my statement?

I said generally, that often people are so confident on what they believe that they have a hard time perceiving that they are wrong even if clearly proved to be wrong.

Be well
Amenuel

[good_logic]

Peace Man Of Faith.

If one is" certain" it should mean they have strong evidence.Therefore I would say
"Often if one "thinks" they are certain about their conviction...

That is what I meant.

Then I agree with you..
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[imrankhawaja]

If one is" certain" it should mean they have strong evidence.Therefore I would say
"Often if one "thinks" they are certain about their conviction...

and when somebody certain about his findings that based on quran... then totally its unfair to adress him deleuded...

[Man_of_Faith]

Peace Man Of Faith.

If one is" certain" it should mean they have strong evidence.Therefore I would say
"Often if one "thinks" they are certain about their conviction...

That is what I meant.

Then I agree with you..
GOD bless you.
Peace.

If you say so. Perhaps your formulation was better and I thank you for your contribution. Yet I meant basically exactly what you told now.

[LastDay3]

.........

Deluded I have used as the kindest kind of way saying someone is confused into believing something to be true while it is not.
It is not of mean intention with how I use it.

.........

If the case is someone is deluded into believing something it is but fair to the one being deluded to be informed.
I am offering help to avoid the delusion too.

.........

Be well
Amenuel

Salaam/Peace Man of Faith,

thank you very much, my dear Fellow/Friend, for your such kindness and good intention,

with the exact same feelings of kindness and good intention,
and hoping that perhaps I could truly be informative and helpful to you,

I have clearly, honestly and straightforwardly related to you this most Essential and important Information,
in my previous post to you

Salaam/Peace Man of Faith,

I sincerely and wholeheartedly recommend you, my dear Fellow/Friend, to study and learn
what is a "delusion" and who can rightfully be called as "deluded",
according to QURAN TESTAMENT.

Your clear statement in that second quote above (=but the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb,)
may be a perfect example to help you clearly understand

=what "delusion" is,

=and who can rightfully be called as "deluded",

according to QURAN TESTAMENT (68/6 = 43/15 & 52/43).

So I sincerely and wholeheartedly recommend you, my dear Fellow/Friend, Man of Faith,
to decisively renounce your such clear and deep "delusions" above,
and immediately repent and return to AL-LAH, in this best manner here (=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/70-71),
for your Eternal Salvation and Everlasting Benefits, forever.

(=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/68-69-70-71-72-73-74-75-76)

Remain in peace/salaam.

Because no matter how hard Satan may try to distort the Meaning of QURANIC Verses,
in order to be able to deceive you and deceive people to believe that

=the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb,

you, my dear Fellow/Friend Man of Faith, and also all truthful Believers here as well
who honestly and sincerely seeking The Truth of/in QURAN TESTAMENT
should Never accept such a "Satanic nonsense and blasphemy" here

=the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb,

which is most clearly, decisively and unmistakably Refuted
in QURAN TESTAMENT here, from the very Beginning (43/15 = 52/43 = 41/37-38).

Remain in peace/salaam.

[imrankhawaja]

the "vibrating strings of energy" are Rabb,

nope it cant be.... God is not material based or energy based... or something similar to anything... yeah

[Man_of_Faith]

You immediately draw the conclusion I refer to matter. Energy has no mass and is no matter but its manifestation is what we call electric charge. Such charge is generated for example through friction between or within matter.

I can correct the statement more clearly by saying "The manifestation of light is a sign of Rabb, it is what projects the world and giving it solidness as an element of illusion of such world". The " phenomenon" causing the charge of light is what is Rabb.

The world is made of this projected energy and it is not innately visible.

Be well
Amenuel

[imrankhawaja]

some more signs of God..in the shape of verses...

3131 Have you not seen the ships sailing in the sea by the grace of God,
so that He shows you some of His signs? In that are signs for
every one who is patient, thankful.

It is He (God) who sends down rain from the sky from it ye drink, and out of it (grows) the vegetation on which ye feed your cattle. With it He produces for you corn, olives, date-palms, grapes and every kind of fruit verily in this is a sign for those who give thought/contemplate . He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command verily in this are signs for men who use their reason/sense (1610-12)

Say, "Look at all the signs in the heavens and the earth." All the proofs and all the warnings can never help people who decided to disbelieve (10101).

there are lot of more signs of God... does it mean these all are Gods...?

electricity is a thing.. generated and created by God... it cannot be God... elektro

[imrankhawaja]

Energy has no mass and is no matter

wind ad air also dnt have mass and matter, but it exist...