Faith no more
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My position is similar to that of Abraham. I've have smashed all my idols including Allah. He is a creation of Mohammed and those before him.
Very good, for Allah is not an entity. Rabb is One Foundation in which we exist, conscious or unconscious. It is very symbiotic and every person has the possibility to affect.
I do hope there is a higher power that guides me, but I know it can never be anything like the God of the Quran.
Well, Allah of (the sectarian interpretation of) Quran is not particularly guiding. Very worldly one that. Some cleric/s was/were that Being (Allah). There is a higher power that can guide you, but that consists of one unity of being.
I think only science can answer the God question. Revelation and prophets are an absurdity to me.
Not necessarily, you only need to listen to what has truly come from Rabb through a prophet (insightful one). People can guide by becoming ascended in mind in which state their mind will be more transcendent and therefore have more clarity in their perception.
And if we become insightful then this is because Rabb is in us and we are in Rabb, there is no separation between us.
Be well
Amenuel -
Humanity has a better chance of prosperity without religion. In particular Islam. If you look at history and present-day it is unable to reform.
That's not to say I am against it. I support reform. However, some of you are ready to move on to the next stage. I'm here to facilitate that )The best "chance of prosperity" is with clarity of mind.
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@ mof you are also insightful perosn isnt it?
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please reflect on what you said,Quote
This I do not agree with you on though. Quran was made written by Rabb or to say an insightful prophet who were in the Rabb and the Rabb in him (or could be her). The "bullshit" is whatever story has been fabricated about Quran on what it should say. Few people are objective though, this is correct, and that is why no one has challenged to established interpretation on a wider scale and why the current flimsy version of it is still accepted. To read Quran as intended it needs a complete reevaluation.
Then you go on to add,quote
This is true. Quran is full of hate. The god is completely out of control and will condemn people eternally for not believing in it. It is like a megalomaniac dictator who just cannot get enough of attention and will execute anyone who does not accept him. No one ever reflects on it that way.
And ,quote
Quran seems to make little distinction between man and woman, not prioritizing it as something important. We only have genders in the body while the spirit is asexual. For a bodily/worldly person the gender might be important.
Is this not confusing?
I thought the Arabic Qoran says the same things since over 1400 years ago? Where do you see the contradictions?
Yes,brother,I forgot, you are going to explain it in your next post?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace Man Of Faith.
Please reflect on what you said,Quote
This I do not agree with you on though. Quran was made written by Rabb or to say an insightful prophet who were in the Rabb and the Rabb in him (or could be her). The "bullshit" is whatever story has been fabricated about Quran on what it should say. Few people are objective though, this is correct, and that is why no one has challenged to established interpretation on a wider scale and why the current flimsy version of it is still accepted. To read Quran as intended it needs a complete reevaluation.
Then you go on to add,quote
This is true. Quran is full of hate. The god is completely out of control and will condemn people eternally for not believing in it. It is like a megalomaniac dictator who just cannot get enough of attention and will execute anyone who does not accept him. No one ever reflects on it that way.
And ,quote
Quran seems to make little distinction between man and woman, not prioritizing it as something important. We only have genders in the body while the spirit is asexual. For a bodily/worldly person the gender might be important.
Is this not confusing?
I thought the Arabic Qoran says the same things since over 1400 years ago? Where do you see the contradictions?
Yes,brother,I forgot, you are going to explain it in your next post?
GOD bless you.
Peaceyes it happens always people like GL ask difficult questions from prophets (insightful) people... and they will reply always .. its another matter out of million followers only 5 can hardly understand and beleive on some of the insightful persons..theories
same like every actor not get popular like shahrukh khan...
every insightful perosn not get popular like prophet muhammad...very simple and logical..
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I think you?ve misunderstood my position. I never rejected the Quran because of something I found in hadith or history. I rejected the Quran first and then studied Islam/Mohammed as a historian. I was a Quranist and had an audio of the Quran on playback most of the time. After a while I found the hatred very problematic and for a year was afraid to listen to the Quran in case I found another issue. I made excuses like, ?It?s classical Arabic. I?ll never understand it. Maybe I don?t have the right dictionaries. Maybe the verses haven?t been preserved correctly e.t.c?. Trust me, I made every possible excuse, took every possible position not to reject the Quran.
Also now that the Quranist mentality is not applicable, I can understand the view point of the Quran + Hadith camp. I don?t have a vested interest in either position, so I can see them objectively. They are both equally justified.
When I look at Islamic history now, I ask myself ?Can the justification for this act or behaviour be found in the Quran?? and the answer yes mostly.
So, again there is no 180 turn. Just the Quran by itself was enough to reject it.
Happy to clarify my position further if needed.
So to summarize
Would you agree with that conclusion? Or at least agree with the claim that Islamic history must, in some way, be considered when studying the Qur'an? Why or why not?
As a non-believer I see both as equally valid positions.
I find it intriguing that this radical shift of thinking occurs. I would like to know why, if this is your current belief and if you can explain it for me.
Are you asking me what issues I found in the Quran?
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Peace
I think in discussions like this two things are exposed
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The kufar still needs to connect with the believers out of jealousy/anger
loneliness. -
The believers misunderstand/disbelieve their lord when he says
45/23 Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god,
and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his
ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide
him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful?and
6/111 And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead
had spoken to them and We had brought together all things before them,
they would not believe unless Allah pleases, but most of them are ignorant.Peace Comrox.
I agree debating can be a waste of time and effort.
I also agree
its not debate its , a freindly request if he have evidence of his claims we must accept that . so thats y i also request him to show me the way in the shape of verses so tht i can also ponder on it.. and if i find it logical and true i also stop believing on God..
Interesting hmm Please read 45/23 above.
Lakum deenukum waliya deeni
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peace FNM,
I was clearly asking YOU about YOUR findings, thus my views/mindset is completely irrelevant.
One of the reasons I asked what I did was because I sometimes see people making these claims BUT when asked to produce the strongest evidence they have, almost all (in my experience) evade answering.
I will let readers make up their own mind as to what this implies.
Wakas, I am presenting my findings through what is already available on the internet. It's very time consuming to type out every detail.
I have read your arguments to-date on this topic (Zul Qarnain) and have selected these videos especially for youIt's a simple request. Watch the videos. Does anything perturb you? Then we can take the conversation on separate thread.
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Interesting hmm Please read 45/23 above.
Lakum deenukum waliya deeni
hmmm
i m gona add some more ... from my collections...4330 And when the truth came to them, they said ?This is magic, and we reject it.?
4331 And they said ?If only this Qur?an was sent down to a man ofgreatness from the two towns!?
4332 Is it they who assign the mercy of your Lord? We have assigned their share in this worldly life, and We raised some of them aboveothers in ranks, so that they would take one another in service.The mercy from your Lord is far better than that which they
amass.Who breaks covenant with Allah after establishing it and cut what Allah has ordered to be joined,
and cause disorder on earth. They are the losers. 2 271036 The majority of people follow nothing but conjecture. But conjecture can never be a substitute for
the Reality of things.God is Knower of what they do (and forge).2210 That is for what your hands have brought forth, and God does not wrong the servants.
2211 Andfrom the people there is he who serves God nervously. So if good comes to him,
he is content with it; and if an ordeal comes to him, he makes an about-face.
He has lost this world and the Hereafter. Such is the clear loss.
2212 He calls upon besides God what will not harm him and what will not benefit him. Such is the far straying.2215 Whosoever thinks that God will not grant him victory in this world and the Hereafter,
then let him extend his request to the heaven via some means,
then let him cut off and see whether this action the cause of his anger6164 Say "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything?"
And every soul earns what is for it, and none will carry the burden of another.
Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in. -
Peace
I think in discussions like this two things are exposed
- The kufar still needs to connect with the believers out of jealousy/anger
loneliness.
You assumed my motives were jealousy/anger without proof. This is what your Quran teaches you. In the end you will be suspicious of everyone.
- The believers misunderstand/disbelieve their lord when he says
45/23 Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god,
and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his
ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide
him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful?Again you question my motives as a "low desire". This verse only sows the seeds of hatred.
and
6/111 And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead
had spoken to them and We had brought together all things before them,
they would not believe unless Allah pleases, but most of them are ignorant.No, again you assume what I think.
If 6111 happened I would be the first to believe. But it didn't happen. It will never happen. I'm not ignorant.
Please keep quoting the Quran and exposing it's stupidity.
Even my SatNav has more sense than your Allah. When I make a wrong turn it doesn't condemn
me or set a seal upon my heart, but it re-calibrates a new path for me. No matter how many mistakes I make I always make it to my destination. - The kufar still needs to connect with the believers out of jealousy/anger
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The best "chance of prosperity" is with clarity of mind.
You are on a different level. I like it.
Do you have a youtube channel. You should present your views in videos or in a blog.
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You assumed my motives were jealousy/anger without proof. This is what your Quran teaches you. In the end you will be suspicious of everyone.
Again you question my motives as a "low desire". This verse only sows the seeds of hatred.
No, again you assume what I think.
If 6111 happened I would be the first to believe. But it didn't happen. It will never happen. I'm not ignorant.
Please keep quoting the Quran and exposing it's stupidity.
Even my SatNav has more sense than your Allah. When I make a wrong turn it doesn't condemn
me or set a seal upon my heart, but it re-calibrates a new path for me. No matter how many mistakes I make I always make it to my destination.Such a hypocrite.
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You assumed my motives were jealousy/anger without proof. This is what your Quran teaches you. In the end you will be suspicious of everyone.
Not true, I accept everyone's view as their own, Allah is the creator of all,
You are free to not believe. yesAgain you question my motives as a "low desire". This verse only sows the seeds of hatred.
From who, you?
No, again you assume what I think.
If 6111 happened I would be the first to believe. But it didn't happen. It will never happen.
is that what you require, to witness a metaphor? nope
Please keep quoting the Quran and exposing it's stupidity.
The Mirror effect, the Quran reflects what's in our hearts.
Even my SatNav has more sense than your Allah. When I make a wrong turn it doesn't condemn
me or set a seal upon my heart, but it re-calibrates a new path for me. No matter how many mistakes I make I always make it to my destination.May I add hatred to your list of reasons for your
interactions with the believers! what a shameLakum deenukum waliya deeni
full stop. police
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Well, Allah of (the sectarian interpretation of) Quran is not particularly guiding. Very worldly one that. Some cleric/s was/were that Being (Allah). There is a higher power that can guide you, but that consists of one unity of being.
Salaam MoF,
Red nope
Inna hudaAllahi huwa alHuda.
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Peace
I think in discussions like this two things are exposed
-
The kufar still needs to connect with the believers out of jealousy/anger
loneliness. -
The believers misunderstand/disbelieve their lord when he says
45/23 Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god,
and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his
ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide
him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful?and
6/111 And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead
had spoken to them and We had brought together all things before them,
they would not believe unless Allah pleases, but most of them are ignorant.I also agree
Interesting hmm Please read 45/23 above.
Lakum deenukum waliya deeni
I do believe he should leave. We need people who have leadership quality and a mind of their own that can communicate with Allah. What is described by him is what we DO NOT need in this movement
I never rejected the Quran because of something I found in hadith or history. I rejected the Quran first and then studied Islam/Mohammed as a historian. I was a Quranist and had an audio of the Quran on playback most of the time. After a while I found the hatred very problematic and for a year was afraid to listen to the Quran in case I found another issue. I made excuses like, ?It?s classical Arabic. I?ll never understand it. Maybe I don?t have the right dictionaries. Maybe the verses haven?t been preserved correctly e.t.c?. Trust me, I made every possible excuse, took every possible position not to reject the Quran.
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Not true, I accept everyone's view as their own, Allah is the creator of all,
You are free to not believeExcept you must seize and kill me 489.
Or at the very least despise me. Quran is not very fond of the Kafir .. i.e. one who doesn't share your belief.
Show me a few "love thy kafir" verses. Then I might consider myself free to disbelieve.
The Mirror effect, the Quran reflects what's in our hearts
No my dear friend. Your heart will reflect what is in the Quran. Hate and fear will always destroy.
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Quran is not very fond of the Kafir .. i.e. one who doesn't share your belief.
Show me a few "love thy kafir" verses. Then I might consider myself free to disbelieve.
Of course the quran is not very fond of kafirs.
They are called for a reason kafirs, and you will indeed not find a single good word about kafirs, they are the worst of all people. -
there are always two type of people everywhere in every catagory,,
right and wrong
pass and fail
beleivers and disbeleivers(kafirs)dis not court treat the citizen who cause trouble in land with different level than the ones who obey law...
obey and disobey...
even anyone is kaffir while doing sin.. cause they break the law.. one need to understand this phenomenon...
i hope court did not welcome any criminal with flowers in the hand... if thats the case then quran is also wrong about not using favorable language for disbeleivers...