Pork & Logic

Man_of_Faith

if haram is used without ,,, ina ma

then haram mean blessed, goodly/ santified...

lets fit it in the word of haram as per MOF in this verse. without ina ma just for experiment...

423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, secterian translation

423 blessed, goodly/ santified... for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, MOF translation

brickwall

423 does not have and are you sure about what is the subject of the context?

It could also be what is goodly/sanctified for you in terms of socializing with. Most translations infer that it is marriage it speaks of, but the word nikkah does not occur there. And even then the primary meaning of nikkah is "tie a knot with" which could mean to have a relationship with which is not sexual and bonding in that regard. As far as I am concerned bonding goes by the word zawaje . This is also the word used to refer to marriage, in real Arabic. Make sure to read up on it and compare. It means to bond and be a companion in a union.

The translations overall are awfully weak, so do not be surprised if the whole context speaks of something else.

The word haram does not mean both sanctified and forbidden at the same time. You have to choose one meaning.

Ancient rulers called their trophy room harem for the same reason for they considered it to be sanctified for them.

So spare your brickwalls for yourself for you might need it later. You might discover your ancient clerics did not know so much.

If you get close to someone who is a stranger and the opposite sex there is a possibility that you build up an attraction to them, but less likely if it is your sibling's daughter unless you are a pervert.

Be well
Amenuel

imrankhawaja

The translations overall are awfully weak, so do not be surprised if the whole context speaks of something else.

so your translations are 100 % correct... i m surprised... bravo its something like... if i tell to english man how to speak english...

The word haram does not mean both sanctified and forbidden at the same time. You have to choose one meaning.

choose the best answer ,,, no mean 1 dnt ,2 not, 3 negetive, 4 yes... i will choose no mean yes rotfl

Ancient rulers called their trophy room harem for the same reason for they considered it to be sanctified for them.

you was present there i think... through the process of incranation and i think your memory come back after some sudden shock... i can beleive that its not a big deal...

So spare your brickwalls for yourself for you might need it later. You might discover your ancient clerics did not know so much.

thanx for advice... but i think i have better things to do... i try to get my memory back like you get it back.. in your previous life span you must be a language expert isnt it... lol

If you get close to someone who is a stranger and the opposite sex there is a possibility that you build up an attraction to them, but less likely if it is your sibling's daughter unless you are a pervert.

BOLD rotfl rotfl rotfl

actually i have no comments becoz the reply will make you jump out from your seat and it will become a personal attack , so better i will not reply ... i dnt want to b personal..

in all of it i just fit the meanings of your provided interpreation and i feel you take it on you so hard..... chill out brother..

either you dnt use your mind while interpreting or you are mocking quran,, thinking that the fool is written on the forehead of everybody... just fit this your provided interprretation on all the occasions of quran and see where your claim is standing...

peace..

imrankhawaja

@ MOF

i have lot of examples and verses from quran in which the provided interpretation from MOF regarding haram is not really getting fit.. any way here is another example exactly regarding the pig..there is clearly no ina ma anywhere

53 Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah

mof translation

blesses/goodly /santify to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah

Quran says it is not goodly to eat it nor meat from animals which have died on their own. It does not say forbidden. It is clearly a recommendation. Haram means sanctified/blessed/goodly and an'ema (&#1575 means "it is not" being a compound of and .

now you cannot choose options here ... or you can.. hmm

Man_of_Faith

@ MOF

i have lot of examples and verses from quran in which the provided interpretation from MOF regarding haram is not really getting fit.. any way here is another example exactly regarding the pig..there is clearly no ina ma anywhere

53 Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah

mof translation

blesses/goodly /santify to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah

Quran says it is not goodly to eat it nor meat from animals which have died on their own. It does not say forbidden. It is clearly a recommendation. Haram means sanctified/blessed/goodly and an'ema (&#1575 means "it is not" being a compound of and .

now you cannot choose options here ... or you can.. hmm

I can choose options of course. I can render the whole translation absurd and not correct. The probability that the context speaks of something else is high.

It is improbable that a word, i.e. haram, means two completely opposite things depending on context, this would be absurd. Words do not work that way except to someone who likes to play around with interpretations.

Take a look at the passage of which you speak

Where do you find "dead animals"? It is a playful inference. The only the passage mentions about there is lifelessness (substantive).

The passage begins by saying, and which is completely related to the previous passage which is not meant to separate the two clauses since the T on haramet is supposed to carry the predicate from a subject related to the context, is "... is good for your lifelessness and persistence and..." To be able to understand the context you need to first decipher the previous verse properly from start to finish, i.e. not like the pretenders in medieval times.

Dal-Waw-Miim (Dal-Alif-Miim) = To continue, endure, persist, remain, persevere, last, stand still, keep alive.

Above is the root of which is also used in Adam's name and is the purposeful name his ascendants have, i.e. children of Adam.

Summary is that the haramet in the sentence does most probably refer to sanctified or goodly still, but the passage does not speak of dead animals or blood. There is no blood mention or "dead animals" in there. Get real for God's sake. Do you attempt to try the similar interpretation acrobatics as the past people?

So lifelessness is forbidden according to you? How easy is it to forbid lifelessness when the majority of humans on Earth are in fact lifeless?

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

so your translations are 100 % correct... i m surprised... bravo its something like... if i tell to english man how to speak english...

You could. His English is probably not close to how English was spoken even as briefly ago as 500 years. If you learn 500-1000 years old English people would raise their eyebrows and stand in puzzlement. Now the Arabic of Quran is both over 1000 years old and medieval interpreters did somehow not get it right.

choose the best answer ,,, no mean 1 dnt ,2 not, 3 negetive, 4 yes... i will choose no mean yes rotfl

Unrelated to the topic at hand.

you was present there i think... through the process of incranation and i think your memory come back after some sudden shock... i can beleive that its not a big deal...

I have knowledge of it and I have research historical links. I know why they called those trophy rooms harem.

thanx for advice... but i think i have better things to do... i try to get my memory back like you get it back.. in your previous life span you must be a language expert isnt it... lol

No I was no language expert, but I spoke an ancient form of the language Aramaic. It is still unrelated to the topic at hand.

BOLD rotfl rotfl rotfl

actually i have no comments becoz the reply will make you jump out from your seat and it will become a personal attack , so better i will not reply ... i dnt want to b personal..

So why do you seek to incite hatred? I am hardened by all of you here and practicing, so I can probably take your petty little attack. I would suppose your reply does not have any relevance to the topic at hand either but is an ad hominem because you find this to be humorous and wish to be mocking.

in all of it i just fit the meanings of your provided interpreation and i feel you take it on you so hard..... chill out brother..

I told you how it was to be interpreted. It would not seem strange.

either you dnt use your mind while interpreting or you are mocking quran,, thinking that the fool is written on the forehead of everybody... just fit this your provided interprretation on all the occasions of quran and see where your claim is standing...

My argument would suit everywhere because HARAM MEANS SANCTIFIED... ALWAYS. You would be stupid to argue otherwise or else Arabic is a way too ambiguous language open to great misunderstanding.

If it does not suit, which I highlighted to you in the previous post, it is because the whole interpretation of passages is not attached to reality.

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

Is your silly Al-Mesjed al-Haram a forbidden temple too?

If this was so then no one would be allowed to go there because it is haram to you.

Obviously it is the sanctified/blessed/goodly masjed.

imrankhawaja

your argument based on pure illogical and false assumption... if you really want to check things through roots... here is the rooting... of that thing..

Ha-Ra-Miim = To forbid/prevent/prohibit, make or declare unlawful, deprive, to be sacred/inviolable/entitled to reverence or respect or honour, deny or refuse a thing, render one hopeless, denied prosperity, render unfortunate, ill-fated, persist obstinately, persist in contention or litigation or wrangling, be refractory or untractable, bind a thing hard, refrain from a thing, overcome someone in contending for stakes or wagers in a game of hazard, to be in a state of prohibition, protect or defend oneself.

harama vb. (1)
pcple. pass. 5119, 5667, 6827, 7025

haram n.m. 2857, 2967

haram n.m. 2144, 2149, 2150, 2191, 2194, 2194, 2196, 2198, 2217, 2217, 52, 52, 52, 597, 597, 834, 97, 919, 928, 1059, 16116, 171, 2195, 2225, 4825, 4827
hurum n.m. (pl. of haram) 51, 595, 596, 95, 936

hurumat n.f. (pl. of hurmah) 2194, 2230

harrama vb. (2)
perf. act. 2173, 2275, 393, 4160, 572, 6119, 6140, 6143, 6144, 6146, 6146, 6148, 6150, 6151, 6151, 732, 733, 750, 929, 937, 937, 1635, 16115, 16118, 1733, 2568, 2791, 2812
impf. act. 587, 7157, 929, 937, 661
perf. pass. 350, 423, 53, 596, 6138, 243
pcple. pass. 285, 526, 6139, 6145, 1437

your wording and things and cliams are nothing but flasehood.. i regret i waste my time to debate with you because clearly this show how lack of knowledge you have regarding the wording rooting and perfect sense of grammer...

sorry to say but apparently your knowledge regarding language is very weak and it need lot of revision and learning...

imrankhawaja

I can choose options of course. I can render the whole translation absurd and not correct. The probability that the context speaks of something else is high.

It is improbable that a word, i.e. haram, means two completely opposite things depending on context, this would be absurd. Words do not work that way except to someone who likes to play around with interpretations.

Take a look at the passage of which you speak

Where do you find "dead animals"? It is a playful inference. The only the passage mentions about there is lifelessness (substantive).

The passage begins by saying, and which is completely related to the previous passage which is not meant to separate the two clauses since the T on haramet is supposed to carry the predicate from a subject related to the context, is "... is good for your lifelessness and persistence and..." To be able to understand the context you need to first decipher the previous verse properly from start to finish, i.e. not like the pretenders in medieval times.

Dal-Waw-Miim (Dal-Alif-Miim) = To continue, endure, persist, remain, persevere, last, stand still, keep alive.

Above is the root of which is also used in Adam's name and is the purposeful name his ascendants have, i.e. children of Adam.

Summary is that the haramet in the sentence does most probably refer to sanctified or goodly still, but the passage does not speak of dead animals or blood. There is no blood mention or "dead animals" in there. Get real for God's sake. Do you attempt to try the similar interpretation acrobatics as the past people?

So lifelessness is forbidden according to you? How easy is it to forbid lifelessness when the majority of humans on Earth are in fact lifeless?

Be well
Amenuel

your post is a perfect example of beating around a bush...

if A=b then b= c then C=d hence d=A

television tele mean FAR vision mean view..
hence using televiosn or far view is both right ...

thats what you are doing with the meanings of quran..

jin mean hidden from eyes...

so jin is resdie inside the body...

languge rules and syntax i still wonder people never get a grip on it... how words meanings bring a new word for diffferent usgae .. when u understand that thing then understanding of interpretation you can easily get... otherwise

the real problem is not in interepretation honestly its in your own head .. or may be you are not so knowledgeable how langauge derived words from one another..

keep beating aroung the bush if its your way....

a common word business , derived from busy ness...

a businessman have no busniess in these days...

a busy man have no busy ness in these days... how stupid is this to understand things like that rotfl

LastDay3

I can choose options of course. I can render the whole translation absurd and not correct.

I told you how it was to be interpreted. ........

My argument would suit everywhere because HARAM MEANS SANCTIFIED... ALWAYS.
You would be stupid to argue otherwise ..........

Then Is your silly Al-Mesjed "al-Haram" a "Forbidden" temple too?

If this was so then no one would be allowed to go there because it is "haram = forbidden" to you.

Obviously it is the "sanctified/blessed/goodly" masjed.

Salaam/Peace MoF,

The root word "Ha-ra-ma = Haram" essentially always means "Forbidden" in QURAN TESTAMENT,

and

every root word thus essentially has
a perfectly clear, straightforward and easy to understand "one/same meaning" throughout
the QURAN TESTAMENT,

and this is what makes QURAN TESTAMENT
a perfectly Clear, absolutely Easy to understand EXCELLENT HEAVENLY SCRIPTURE
with no ambiguity/flaw and with no difficulty/discrepancy in it, at all,

=QURAN TESTAMENT 18/1-2 = 39/28 = 54/17, 22, .........

by the Immense Grace of AL-LAH unto all of us above, from the very beginning.

In this respect,

"Al-Masjid Al-Haram" perfectly means (="The-Temple The-Forbidden&quot
due to the Fact that

our Lord AL-LAH has Forbidden (=Harrama) all fighting near/around/in it,
as it is clearly emphasized in this Verse, in the first place, here (2/191),

and in exact similar/same manner again

"Al-Shahr Al-Haram" perfectly means (="The-Month The-Forbidden&quot
due to the Fact that

our Lord AL-LAH has Forbidden (=Harrama) all fighting in it,
as it is clearly emphasized in this Verse, in the first place, here (2/217),

and in exact similar/same manner again

"Al-Ashhur Al-Haram" perfectly means (="The-Months The-Forbidden&quot
due to the Fact that

our Lord AL-LAH has Forbidden (=Harrama) all lewdness and brawl and quarrel in it,
as it is clearly emphasized in these Verses, in the first place, here (9/36 = 2/197).

Quran says it is not goodly to eat it nor meat from animals which have died on their own.

It does not say forbidden. It is clearly a recommendation.

"Haram" means "sanctified/blessed/goodly" and an'ema (&#1575 means "it is not" being a compound of and .

"Haram/Harrama" essentially and always means "Forbidden," as we have clearly seen above,
and also we clearly and unmistakably see it again here

===================
33- Say My LORD has absolutely forbidden (=Arabic innama harrama)

all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle,
and sin, aggression without cause,
and your setting up partners with AL-LAH that were never authorized by HIM,
and saying about AL-LAH what you do not know.

173- HE has absolutely forbidden (=Arabic innama harrama) for you

what is already dead,
the blood,
the meat of pig,
and what was dedicated to other than AL-LAH.

But whoever finds himself/herself forced out of need and without disobedience or animosity,
(only in this case) there is no sin upon him/her. For AL-LAH is Forgiving, Merciful.

QURAN TESTAMENT 7/33 = 2/173

So dear brother/friend MoF, as we can clearly see above
your interpretation of this word here as

"Haram" means "sanctified/blessed/goodly" (as you still claim it above)

is fundamentally wrong, crooked/distorted interpretation that does Not make sense, in no way, at all.
Because according to your wrong, crooked/distorted interpretation

all these things that our Lord AL-LAH has absolutely forbidden (=Arabic innama harrama) unto us,
in the above Verses here, in the first place,

would actually be not forbidden (according to you) but just a recommendation!!!
So whoever commits one or more of these dire Sins above would not even be sinful,
because they were just a recommendation!!! (according to you)

(*Please, let us absolutely see again what is Commanded unto us
at the very end of that second Verse above

But whoever finds himself/herself forced out of need and without disobedience or animosity,
(only in this case) there is no Sin upon him/her. For AL-LAH is Forgiving, Merciful.

So it is absolutely clear that exclusively and only in this case
(=i.e. if one is forced out of need) --without disobedience or animosity-- it is not Sin then,
due to Immense Forgiveness and Mercy of our Lord AL-LAH therein,

but in all other cases, to commit one or more of these actions above are dire Sins,
as it is clearly emphasized in the above Verse, in the first place.

And then according to your crooked/distorted claim above again,
this time because that there is even no innama
at the beginning of these Verses in

QURAN TESTAMENT 4/23-24

consequently, to get married with one's own Mother and Sister/s and Daughter/s would actually be not forbidden (according to you)
but on the contrary

would be totally "sanctified/blessed/goodly" for Humanity!!! (according to you above)

my dear fellow/friend MoF, you are thus absolutely out of your mind, again and again and again, .........
because you are constantly inventing such utterly distorted/crooked satanic interpretations

and presenting them as totally sane and sound interpretations of an "insightful" Man who knows basic arabic --(actually with your weird lexicons
and unlimited fabricating time and insatiable lust for crookedness/distortion);

but if you thus keep on ignorantly and arrogantly following your own ego (=25/43)
and continue to let yourself be deceived by Iblees/Satan here (=17/64),
you may regret it forever. (=38/79-85)

But if you immediately repent and return to AL-LAH in this Rightful manner here,
AL-LAH may forgive all your past sins and may admit you into/among HIS truthful Servants,
in this Most Generous & Most Benevolent Manner here

=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/68-69-70-71, 72-73-74-75-76

Remain in peace/salaam.

*Unfortunately, I do not have enough time to reply to all of
such utterly distorted/crooked baseless interpretations of this fellow/friend (=MoF),
which he keeps on fabricating here and in other threads as well,
and repeating them in various manners again and again.

Only from time to time, when I have enough time I immediately reply
and thus clearly show the obvious distortion/crookedness in his baseless interpretations/assumptions,

because it is a Responsibility (not only unto me) but unto every Believer (whenever they have the time/opportunity)
to decisively refute the falsehood and clearly present the Truth in QURAN TESTAMENT.
=34/48-49 & 3/104 & 73/20

huwa

How can pork be totally forbidden if there is an exception of consumption before the end of the verse (53)?

imrankhawaja

How can pork be totally forbidden if there is an exception of consumption before the end of the verse (53)?

exception is only when u have no option left...

let say i stuck in a plane with covered with full of ice around me and rest of the people dead around me... i even allowed to eat the flesh of human for keeping me survive if my attention is just to make myslelf surivive ...instead of cananbalism..

on the condition of self defence you can kill to another perosn.. does not make killing recomendable , or does it?

same if you clearly read what is written in the end of 53 u will understand what is the topic here

So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

Peace

imrankhawaja

my dear fellow/friend MoF, you are thus absolutely out of your mind, again and again and again, .........
because you are constantly inventing such utterly distorted/crooked satanic interpretations

and presenting them as totally sane and sound interpretations of an "insightful" Man who knows basic arabic --(actually with your weird lexicons
and unlimited fabricating time and insatiable lust for crookedness/distortion);

hahahahahahahaha rotfl rotfl funny or sad ..

whatever

herbman

peace to all,

the subject of this thread might sound funny but still now I couldnt find any strong logic against pork meat to prohibit it. Can anyone provide some good point or arguement on this issue.

peace

Salam,

because it is a scavenger!

Peace

Man_of_Faith

The points against the non-eating of pork are logical, it is a poor choice for humans.

Socrates

Pigs where created as a human-swine hybrid. This means that eating pork is indeed akin to cannibalism.

Therefore, i have one word to say on the matter SWINE

Peace
Live long and prosper

Novice

Take a look at the passage of which you speak

Dal-Waw-Miim (Dal-Alif-Miim) = To continue, endure, persist, remain, persevere, last, stand still, keep alive.

Above is the root of which is also used in Adam's name and is the purposeful name his ascendants have, i.e. children of Adam.

Salam MoF

The root of is dl mm ww ( &#1608

is a noun and meaning "the blood"

Root dl ww mm ( &#1605 is different.

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Salam MoF

The root of is dl mm ww ( &#1608

is a noun and meaning "the blood"

Root dl ww mm ( &#1605 is different.

Peace

That is a mistake. The root of is . The root of Arabic do not work the way you suggest or the historical sources. Adam's name means is Persistent.

The word with root is a descriptive way of referring to blood, but it does not only refer to blood.

In many examples including Adam's name it does not refer to blood.

Be well
Amenuel