Hello all, this is my new home !
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Phase one of "Operation Convert Ummah Forum" is complete! Muahahahahahaha!! voodoo elektro
Welcome to the forum brother. )
Google group... Huh. Never thought about that. How did you even find out about it to begin with if it's private? Why is it private? Is it still active? How many people?
Makes me wonder if all the other sites who appear "article only" have a closed group or something... I know the Quranists site has Facebook groups. One of them even has 1k members, there's another Facebook page with 6k likes...
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Phase one of "Operation Convert Ummah Forum" is complete! Muahahahahahaha!! voodoo elektro
Welcome to the forum brother. )
Thank you !
ught about that. How did you even find out about it to begin with if it's private? Why is it private? Is it still active? How many people?
I would say they got around 110 members. So far the members entered the group after they contacted the admin with their personal questions (admin the owner of the website, his e-mail is on the website) Before they get access they face trial-questions like "what is the correct form of Shahada and how many times a day do you pray". The group is exclusive because they don't want a discussion-group but a group with only like-minded fellows. Frequently there are members who get kicked because they turned out to be on the wrong path.
I can give a few examples- One guy got kicked because he saw the Torah still as the word of God even though the Quran says it got corrupted. He didn't like the fact that tattoo was not forbidden in the Quran like in his beloved Torah.
- Another guy got kicked because he considered the bible, torah as books from God, together with the Quran. He had started separate Facebook groups; each group for each book.
- Generally making statements without evidence from the Quran can get you warnings with the risk of being removed from the group
Sometimes members asks to be removed themselves
- One member asked to be removed when he refused to believe RK was a messenger from God
- One member removed himself when he believed his input to improve the Quran-translation was ignored, even though his Arabic knowledge was bad.
And yes the group is still active. I am still in it's whatsapp-group which is hosted by a separate member.
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HOLA! ?COMO ESTAS? welcome
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Welcome.
You see, I was always in a learning phase of Islam. My parents are slow teachers.
I was just blindly following my family without questions. But always very sceptical.You followed your inner compass...... usually a good thing. We are all in a learning phase, it never ends.
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Thank you !
I can give a few examples- One guy got kicked because he saw the Torah still as the word of God even though the Quran says it got corrupted. He didn't like the fact that tattoo was not forbidden in the Quran like in his beloved Torah.
- Another guy got kicked because he considered the bible, torah as books from God, together with the Quran. He had started separate Facebook groups; each group for each book.
- Generally making statements without evidence from the Quran can get you warnings with the risk of being removed from the group
Sometimes members asks to be removed themselves
- One member asked to be removed when he refused to believe RK was a messenger from God
Interesting... sounds like Quran + RK cult....
welcome
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Interesting... sounds like Quran + RK cult....
welcome
Thanks. In the beginning they were alert though Unlike submission.org and masjidtucson.org they said they do not glorify RK himself. But since they attributed more verses to RK then RK himself originally did, I knew the line between them was getting thinner by the day. Before I suggested to remove RK's translation from the website, I preferred no translations from the Quran instead using a bogus one like from RK. But they refused.
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Peace Dakhan.
Have you got a better translation out there than RK? If you have please provide it so we can compare.
And before you rush judging people as idolising this and that, my aim is to compare the translation of the Arabic verses one by one.
We can all easily claim anything. We need to demonstrate our claim from Qoran,then we can use the verses to consolidate our claim.
For example ,to date I have not found a better translation for this verse
2215
If anyone thinks that God cannot support him in this life and in the Hereafter, let him turn completely to (his Creator in) heaven, and sever (his dependence on anyone else). He will then see that this plan eliminates anything that bothers him.Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace Dakhan.
Have you got a better translation out there than RK? If you have please provide it so we can compare.
And before you rush judging people as idolising this and that, my aim is to compare the translation of the Arabic verses one by one.
We can all easily claim anything. We need to demonstrate our claim from Qoran,then we can use the verses to consolidate our claim.Peace, I will look into a way of how I can upload that translation. But I will wait first till that translation is finished. Currently it is in the revision phase, which means the verses are each by each being re-checked for any translation-mistakes.
For example ,to date I have not found a better translation for this verse
2215
If anyone thinks that God cannot support him in this life and in the Hereafter, let him turn completely to (his Creator in) heaven, and sever (his dependence on anyone else). He will then see that this plan eliminates anything that bothers him.Thank you.
GOD bless you.
PeaceInteresting, that the verse you give is one of the few verses that got a footnote attached to it. I will forward it to you
For the one who thinks that God will not support him in this world and in the Hereafter, let him reach out to the sky with his cause, then sever all else. Then let him see if his action removes what aggravates him.
Footnote 2215 ? This verse has been subject to various misinterpretations. Some claiming that God is advising us to dangle a rope from the ceiling and hang ourselves! Obviously this can never be the correct understanding since it would contradict with the Quranic prohibition of taking any life except in the course of justice. These glorious words in actual fact provide a great test for all people with regards to how much they trust and depend on God. God invites anyone who doubts God?s support in this life or the Hereafter, to turn to the sky (in prayer to God) and sever his dependence on anyone else. He should then look and see if this action removes what has been aggravating him or not.
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Peace Dakhan.
You mean RK got that verse translated right according to your footnote?
I wonder why throw away all of RK s translation then?
Like I said I found some of his work inspired. The best out the hundreds of translations I have studied.In fact the majority of today s translators are copying his work.
GOD S invisible forces that guard Qoran will not allow any insincere person to have access to Qoran. RK must have been sincere at least?
The sad thing is some are copying him and discrediting him at the same time. Strange.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
although the translations of rk are nice but again its just translations , he just did something with two verses which cause lot of people to turn away from his teachings...
he should not do a thing which was not authorised to him... instead of rejecting the verses there were other solutions which could solve the problems for him but i dnt know why God let it happen like it , otherwise 19 would be a Big idol , now after that atleast people use reason instead of blind faith...
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Peace Dakhan.
You mean RK got that verse translated right according to your footnote?
I wonder why throw away all of RK s translation then?
Like I said I found some of his work inspired. The best out the hundreds of translations I have studied.In fact the majority of today s translators are copying his work.
GOD S invisible forces that guard Qoran will not allow any insincere person to have access to Qoran. RK must have been sincere at least?
The sad thing is some are copying him and discrediting him at the same time. Strange.
GOD bless you.
Peace.In a group convo, the translator of the Quran I am using (translated by the admin of quran-islam.org) had this to say about RK's translation when I confronted him about RK's translation-errors
The translation of RK, even though contains numerous errors, yet is a very sincere translation and delivers the message of the book perfectly well. In addition, unlike all the translation that were available at the time of RK, it is not influenced by, nor promotes hadith whatsoever.
It was for that reason that when I launched my site (17 years ago) it was the best translation available at the time.Here is a example how the Quran I am using is translated A member in the google-group questioned the new Quran-translation and preferred RK's translation of verse 3357. The admin of Quran-Islam.org responded to the member with the following post
Salaam *****,
Thank you for your comment.
When I translate the Quran I like to be consistent with words I translate rather than translate them differently in various verses, unless we have clear evidence that a word in the Quran has more than one meaning (like for example the words Salat and Zakat).The word "Yu'thoon" means to cause Atha ... Atha in Arabic means harm.
We cannot get away from this meaning.
So "Yu'thoon" means to cause harm.I see your point that using "oppose" suits the context of 3357 better since no one can harm God.
But the way I understand this verse is that the disbelievers "think" that they are harming God by harming His messenger ... so the intention of harm is in their minds, but as you said no one can harm God.
This is not any different from the phrasing in the following verse
They attempt to deceive God and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves without realising it.
In theory, no one can deceive God, but they "think" they are doing it ....
this is the same in 3357 .... they "think" they are harming God, but they can never do that, all they do is harm themselves.The reason I reject RK's translation is because he added his name in some verses, to back-up his claim for being a messenger, for example
We have sent you (O Rashad) to this community, just as we did
for other communities in the past. You shall recite to them what we
reveal to you, for they have disbelieved in the Most Gracious. Say,
"He is my Lord. There is no god except He. I put my trust in Him
alone; to Him is my ultimate destiny."We have sent messengers before you (O Rashad), and we made
them husbands with wives and children. No messenger can produce a
miracle without GOD's authorization, and in accordance with a
specific, predetermined time.We have sent you (Rashad) as a deliverer of good news, as well
as a warner.We have sent you (O Rashad) to all the people, a bearer of
good news, as well as a warner, but most people do not know.Say, "I ask you to do one thing Devote yourselves to GOD, in
pairs or as individuals, then reflect. Your friend (Rashad) is not
crazy. He is a manifest warner to you, just before the advent of a
terrible retribution."Are they saying, "He (Rashad) has fabricated lies about GOD!"?
If GOD willed, He could have sealed your mind, but GOD erases the
falsehood and affirms the truth with His words. He is fully aware of
the innermost thoughts.Your friend (Rashad) is not crazy.
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7411 So leave Me alone with the one I have created.
7412 And I gave him abundant wealth.
7413 And sons to bear witness.
7414 And I made everything comfortable for him.
7415 Then he is greedy, wanting that I give more.
7416 No. He was stubborn to Our revelations.
7417 I will exhaust him in climbing.
7418 He thought and he analyzed.
7419 So woes to him for how he analyzed.
7420 Then woe to him for how he thought.
7421 Then he looked.
7422 Then he frowned and became bad tempered.
7423 And then he turned away in pride.these are some important verses in the chapter in which the 19 angels of hell fire are being mention by God...
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RK have two editions of translations one before messengership one after messengership ,
that indicate something fishy was going on his mind...
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7449 Why did they turn away from this reminder?
7450 Running like zebras
7451 Who are fleeing from the lion
7452 Does each one of them want to receive the scripture personally?
7453 Indeed, they do not fear the Hereafter
7454 Indeed, this is a reminder
7455 For those who wish to take heed
7456 They cannot take heed against GOD's will. He is the source of righteousness; He is the source of forgivenessthis is rk own translation of ending verses... specially 52 verse is enough to understand... lot of things
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7430 Upon it is nineteen
7431 And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We did not make their number except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings
and look at rk translation
7430 Over it is nineteen
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people
interestingly there is not a christian and jews mention in the original arabic. that shows it was already something was going on his mind... and this verse itself is enough to tell us that only God knows everything fully...
oh wao its a coincidence or what its my 1900 post ... 19 x 100 and the date is 19 as well...
i appreciate that the mathematical code is also have a significant part but due to that significant part we should not allowed to drill quran for the sake of code.. quran does not required any code.. any science ..
the science and code and everything when we put in quran then we get amazing results...
quran is the source of these amazings not these codes and scientific facts...
quran is the source of light , lamps are not required for that light ... this light(quran) is itself an amazing piece of wonder...
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Peace Dakhan.
You mean you agree with the rest of his translation? In other words if he did not claim to be a messenger you would have kept /agreed with his translation?For me Qoran is the "Furqan" that determines the claim. If Qoran backs the claim,then there is no issue.
People make too much fuss about "messenger". Qoran is clear that the message is the most important part.
Messengers come and go, messengers are humans that eat the food and go to the market and do whatever every human does. Messengers are also a test for the people.For some people nobody is qualified/deserves to be a "new messenger", they follow what every generation before them have followed,their parents and their ego. Their messengers never come. And for some,their parents messenger will be the last messenger for them.
Qoran says otherwise,that GOD will keep sending messengers, it is not a big deal.Also if a "new messenger" preaches to follow GOD Alone and only His message what is the issue? Qoran is GOD s living messenger,after all human messengers come and go and only GOD s message will remain.
Another example from RK s translation
4610
Say, "What if it is from God and you disbelieved in it? A witness from the Children of Israel has borne witness to a similar phenomenon,* and he has believed, while you have turned arrogant. Surely, God does not guide the wicked people."4611
Those who disbelieved said about those who believed, "If it were anything good, they would not have accepted it before us." Because they were not guided to it, they said, "This is an old fabrication!"4612
Before this, the book of Moses provided guidance and mercy. This too is a scripture that confirms, in Arabic, to warn those who transgressed, and to give good news to the righteous.His explanation is here
*4610 This witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based mathematical code in intact fragments of the scripture .For me this makes sense,there was a "Rabbi Judah" in history that agrees with what he is saying.
Like I said I am only interested in the "better translation" when compared with others. One that makes sense and is backed up by facts.
Of course at the end it is GOD Alone who guides anyway regardless of any translation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Dakhan.
You mean you agree with the rest of his translation? In other words if he did not claim to be a messenger you would have kept /agreed with his translation?Peace. I haven't read the rest of RK's translation. I had read the full article of http//www.quranaloneislam.net/rashad-khalifa-exposed which claimed that RK added his own name to the Quran translation. All I did was a search-command on RK's translation to check if it was true or not. I have no desire to read his translation because I am already reading the translation from quran-islam.org. Surely since two verses are removed from this new translation just like from RK I will definitely not claim it to be the best translation. But just like how RK's translation was once the best translation available at the time, it is the same with the translation of quran-islam.org I haven't seen a better version of it so far. But I do not feel loyalty to a translation, my loyality is only to God and when I come across a better translation I will switch to next best translation without hesitation.
You should stop defending RK's translation and always be critical of what you read. Don't become a sheep.
Peace.
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Peace Dakhan.
When you say this
You should stop defending RK's translation and always be critical of what you read. Don't become a sheep.It sounds very weak and deviating from the subject.
Also according to your reasoning,one would be a sheep whatever translation!!!!!
Look, I said my concern is with what Qoran says. Does the translation agree and makes sense with the original text.
I am only interseted in discussing Qoran verses and what they mean.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
