Would you commit shirk if God told you so ?

[imrankhawaja]

I am guessing you still believe in this kind of creation
https//encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcTrCoUYTexVAM9sdyzmXf-MaGoyETYIdctrTGcgUZc7xTzEfgkI
No worries, I have been there. But verses don't seem to agree with it.

no actually u dnt try to understand the difference between evolution and creation..

ok may b ill make it simple... what is the missing link where is the missing link? why science dnt have answer of missing link? is this missing link is inbetween evolution and creation , is it possible.. if not then what? confused

Don't you ponder why? Hint The slides above. You answered it here though

i m not much intelligent to solve things by hints , detail it please... if u can...

I don't think we are denying the event of Adam telling the names. I said we can't see it as a competition.

ok why angels did not tell the names... did you deny it... why angels after getting fail to tell the names prostrate/sujood adam.. will you deny it again? ok forget about it.. just give that situation a name... game , contest or just a story or tale of old ? anything ...

Exactly, hence, it would be probably a waste of time for God to write about whether they are being nice or bad in Quran.

? hmm

But humans can behave like animals. He can deny that he is responsible for his actions and we see that everyday on this planet. One of the reasons why many reject evolution is because it tries to market the misconception that there is nothing wrong in being like an animal.

human can behave like whatever he wish, animal, angel, sinner, pious, devil ... but again he wil get accountable when the judgement happen.. ... so yeh there is nothing wrong in becoming animal hence failed in test...

The test is only for Adam. Angels have no free will. If you do not believe Adam basically is the evolved sane version of blood shedders then there is nothing we can do. Strangely, the perfect human being Adam did slip to "taste the tree". I don't remember seeing it in the reply. So you believe in the incest assumption?

it would be better if you provide some reference from quran which i already ask.. then we will proceed with that... becoz after your refrences about the bloodsheeders already on planet is contradictory due to many reasons...

if one blooodsheeders are there why angels ask why are you creating more?
why angels did not ask at the first time when God was creating first bloodsheeders that were already present?
is that incident was before evolution or after evolution?
is this the creation of human being or evolution of human being... ?

NOTE i want reference in which its is clearly mention before adam it was bloodsheeders on earth already... and more possibly the free will bloodsheeders not animals like dinosours lol

[imrankhawaja]

Salam Imran

Some us mankind use the word Animal in degrading way for Humans, but the Lord has put some of us even lower than Animals in following aya

Q546 There are many jinn and men who have hearts that fail to grasp the truth. We have destined for Hell, those whose eyes fail to see and whose ears fail to hear. They are like cattle. No, they are even less mindful of the right path. It is they who are oblivious.

peace brother.

look in to bold , and my post again please.. they have mind, they have life force, and they have conscious...

but what they dnt have is authority ....

so this verse what you reffer is a perfect example of disbeleivers who are like cattle becoz they dnt use their mind and authority which make them no different than animals... but instead of having that ability they did not use it which will cast them in to hell prison...

that case will not happen with animals... they dnt have any authority

did you ever see monkeys are creating space shuttles , and zebras are creating cell phones...?

human and animals and plants are three living things although with totally different features....

human being is a living thing , he have authority and this authority is our test how we use it...
we can create furniture from woods. we see animals are under our command... even some of them are very powerful than human but still we are ruling this planet ... thats what the authority is... and we will be asked what we did with our authority...

i think there is a discussion already on this animal topic is somewhere i could not recall that thread...

why deer run away becoz there is a life force in it...
mountain never run away when see a hunter , becoz its without life force... but mountains have hidden side too.. they also refused to take the authority ..

[reel]

no actually u dnt try to understand the difference between evolution and creation..

He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, The Evolver (al bari); to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.5924

ok may b ill make it simple... what is the missing link where is the missing link? why science dnt have answer of missing link? is this missing link is inbetween evolution and creation , is it possible.. if not then what? confused

That was the reason why I rejected evolution before, but if the process was gradual then I do not think we will ever recognize the missing link. That said, if we don't know something now does not mean we will never know it. The problem is that it is hard to deny evolution. It is all around us in many forms. Quran also hints towards it. Even a bay in the womb is evolved in 9 months time.

i m not much intelligent to solve things by hints , detail it please... if u can...

Reptilian brain slide?

ok why angels did not tell the names... did you deny it... why angels after getting fail to tell the names prostrate/sujood adam.. will you deny it again? ok forget about it.. just give that situation a name... game , contest or just a story or tale of old ? anything ...

Now tie that to what you said earlier and see the loophole in it
Angels said God was making blood shedding human= they could see things well in advance
Allah introduced Adam to them and held competition=fair enough
Result Angels lost and that is also despite the fact they had the ability to see things in advance. Wonder why they didn't see the competition coming...why they didn't prepare their answers prior to the event!

it would be better if you provide some reference from quran which i already ask.. then we will proceed with that... becoz after your refrences about the bloodsheeders already on planet is contradictory due to many reasons...

if one blooodsheeders are there why angels ask why are you creating more?

why angels did not ask at the first time when God was creating first bloodsheeders that were already present?
is that incident was before evolution or after evolution?
is this the creation of human being or evolution of human being... ?

NOTE i want reference in which its is clearly mention before adam it was bloodsheeders on earth already... and more possibly the free will bloodsheeders not animals like dinosours lol

Your question reminds me of this verse
Has (there) come upon man a period of time not he was a thing mentioned? 761
I don't think the verse is about creating more blood shedders, but position of the creatures which is "successor".
And , when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."230
I do not just yet know in which verses blood shedders (prior to Adam) are mentioned. However, some questions can still be raised from these verses
Except Iblees; he was arrogant and became among the disbelievers.3874
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."229
Where did the disbeliever categorization come from?
Among wrongdoers?
You may also check out the detailed analysis of evolution here
http//www.academia.edu/9806605/The_Appearance_of_Adam_from_the_Quranic_Perspective_-_Creation_or_Evolution
http//quransmessage.com/articles/evolution.htm

Before Darwin, the earliest Muslims researched and wrote about theories of evolution, but they weren't the first
http//www.ascertainthetruth.com/att/index.php/al-islam/al-islam-and-science/871-evolution-was-an-islamic-theory-before-darwin-was-even-born

Incest still???

[good_logic]

Peace reel, Imra.

Have a break,have a cup of tea.
Allow me to give you both a well earned break and let me make a fool of myself trying to reconcile your theories.

Let us take our example first. The human comes from one single cell. A complex cell that divides and its" programme" is well designed by the Master programmer.He said to it "Be" and there it is dividing itself into different cells that gives different organs that forms the full human. Brain ,heart,lungs,stomach...the lot. Each carrying the DNA characteristics of the original cell ,yet each having a different role within the body. A miracle of miracles!

Now, Darwin had no idea how complex that "original cell"was????
Let me go on making a fool of myself. GOD does not have constraints like time!!!! a second,two years,millions of years,billions of years are all the same to Him! GOD has all the time He needs .Yes Eternity!!!!

Going back to that single cell of Darwin. It was programmed by the Master programmer. Well designed to come up with all the species. Yes all the different species . Like your body ,remember!. He said "Be" and the cell was.
The missing link you say? Well the species started at the same time ,evolved in their own different ways and remained different to where they are now!!!! All having the main characteristics( some DNA) of that "Original cell" yet different in make up and purpose.
Mankind evolved( from that cell,over an amount of time as the special "species" intended by GOD to undergo the test when the time was right and the "shaping" completed.

Enjoy your cup of tea.
GOD bless you both.
Peace.

[reel]

Peace reel, Imra.

Have a break,have a cup of tea.
Allow me to give you both a well earned break and let me make a fool of myself trying to reconcile your theories.

Let us take our example first. The human comes from one single cell. A complex cell that divides and its" programme" is well designed by the Master programmer.He said to it "Be" and there it is dividing itself into different cells that gives different organs that forms the full human. Brain ,heart,lungs,stomach...the lot. Each carrying the DNA characteristics of the original cell ,yet each having a different role within the body. A miracle of miracles!

Now, Darwin had no idea how complex that "original cell"was????
Let me go on making a fool of myself. GOD does not have constraints like time!!!! a second,two years,millions of years,billions of years are all the same to Him! GOD has all the time He needs .Yes Eternity!!!!

Going back to that single cell of Darwin. It was programmed by the Master programmer. Well designed to come up with all the species. Yes all the different species . Like your body ,remember!. He said "Be" and the cell was.
The missing link you say? Well the species started at the same time ,evolved in their own different ways and remained different to where they are now!!!! All having the main characteristics( some DNA) of that "Original cell" yet different in make up and purpose.
Mankind evolved( from that cell,over an amount of time as the special "species" intended by GOD to undergo the test when the time was right and the "shaping" completed.

Enjoy your cup of tea.
GOD bless you both.
Peace.

Oh no, I was just discussing and you are definitely not making a fool of yourself. When googling I found this very strange book
http//ebooks.rahnuma.org/religion/Allama_Mashriqi/Inayatullah.Khan_QuranEvolution.pdf I am still reading it, but he seems to be showing how natural selection is not exactly bad especially if the group being destroyed by it is not being useful to earth.

[imrankhawaja]

He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, The Evolver (al bari); to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.5924

yeh no doubt about it...

That was the reason why I rejected evolution before,

there is no need of rejecting evolution , creation and perfection as well... all are different things and quran talk about them in different places...

Reptilian brain slide?

so thats what the answering in the reply of this... i m still confuse.... you quoted me for this...

RED is there is any human being before adam in quran is mention?

so according to you reptilian brain side is human being before adam... hmm

Now tie that to what you said earlier and see the loophole in it
Angels said God was making blood shedding human= they could see things well in advance
Allah introduced Adam to them and held competition=fair enough
Result Angels lost and that is also despite the fact they had the ability to see things in advance. Wonder why they didn't see the competition coming...why they didn't prepare their answers prior to the event!

i m tied with what i said... you took out the word competetion from it... and get confused in between evolution and creation.. anyway...

so you agree about competetion /event and next question you ask is in bold....

the answer is yeh with the meanings of verses its clear that angels know some of the future what they predicted ... but they underestimated the creation thats what they dnt know... and God shows them in the shape of competetion/event /game /contest or whatever lol....

and they replied God you know what we dnt know... haha whats so hard understanding all this..

only God is the source of ultimate knowledge... that what they said after all this... its mean even after knowing the outcomes of human succession in earth they still unaware from the hidden side of that blood sheeder ...and after losing the competetion they pay honour /sujood ... to human.. obviously with the command of God...

why angels did not ask at the first time when God was creating first bloodsheeders that were already present?
is that incident was before evolution or after evolution?
is this the creation of human being or evolution of human being... ?

Your question reminds me of this verse
Has (there) come upon man a period of time not he was a thing mentioned? 761

this verse is not the answer of any of my question above... infact this verse is regarding the stages of evolution of human being ...

obviously human being did not magically come into existence.. but the character/realself is started from the creation of human being and first character in the history of mankind is adam... you are still in between evolution and creation thats y in the start i wanted you to focus on the difference .. in the end i try highlight somethings you may start understanding things from there... hope that will help... inshallah

I do not just yet know in which verses blood shedders (prior to Adam) are mentioned. However, some questions can still be raised from these verses

ok hope so you will find that verses then present these verses here we will discuss about them mean while .. what i learn from quran... about creation evolution and perfection here is a little bit summary of it...

the creation of body.... from the womb of earth...(first stage) evolutionary
the perfection of body.... with life force same apply to other species(evolutionary)

after that a trust offer meanwhile the creation of the real character/real person come into existence... that suppose to emerged in the already created body what we usually call homo spahiens...(creation started)

and when God blow a spirit what is actually a real character of human being in the perfected homo spahiens body then its a perfection stage( perfection ).. some verses i will share although i m also a learner may be the links and things happen differently... God knows best...

761 Was there not a time in the past when man was nothing to even be
mentioned?(evolution)
762 We have created man from a mixed seed; We test him, so We made
him hear and see.(creation)
763 We have guided him to the path, either to be thankful or to reject.(perfection)

6133 And your Lord is the Rich, possessor of Mercy. If He wished,
He could remove all of you and bring after you whom He pleases,
just as He established you from the seed of another people.

"While He created you in stages?"( stages of all evolution,creation and perfection)
"Did you not see how God created seven heavens in layers?"
And made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a radiant lamp.
"God made you grow from the earth as plants."
"Then He returns you to it, and He brings you out totally?"71 14-18

We initiated your creation and then we shaped you...' (711)

He...designed you and perfected your design...' (643)

?We have offered the trust to the heavens and the Earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.? (3372)( all humanity obviously that is offer to our real selves/characters)

?And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves ?Am I not your Lord?? They said ?Yes, we bear witness.? Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.? (7172) (characters were already created)

perfection stage and start of perfected human being having a trust/authority

And your Lord said to the angels ?I am creating a human being from a hardened clay. So when I perfect him, and blow of My Spirit (Rouh) in him, you shall yield to him." (1528-29)
or

?For your Lord said to the angels ?I am creating a human being from clay. So when I have evolved him, and breathed into him from My Spirit (Rouh), then you shall yield to him.? (3871-72)

so evolution then creation of characters then perfection ...

evolution what we read in science is just the study of human body the missing links what they have no answer if you ponder all of this then may b you understand what i was on about...

we are talking about three things here and all three things links together with eachother and its a process of billion of years... approx...

yeh but the story of bloodsheeders started from adam .. the first perfected human being... the story of first bloodsheeder is also in quran... when a crow suggest him how to dig the grave of his brother...lol

[imrankhawaja]

Peace reel, Imra.

Have a break,have a cup of tea.

peace GL

i had my cup of tea... lol but without sugar ...

thanx for you input , we all are here to learn something from eachother... so i also have some understanding as learner... hence i shared it... so you always welcome to share your knowledge sir...

[hawk99]

Peace,

No one knows our true earthly origin/evolution.
However, we are free to guess/speculate/conject
and hypothesize. Quran Kareem is the best source.

police

[HP_TECH]

Peace,

No one knows our true earthly origin/evolution.
However, we are free to guess/speculate/conject
and hypothesize. Quran Kareem is the best source.

police

MY maan handshake

You are absolutely right, in that we are free to do all the above, but would believers conjecture and say about Allah what they do not know?
I see many of them conforming to modernity and hanging off Man of Faith's every word as if it were revelation, while a majority of his rhetoric is not referenced, unreasonable with Quranich context and Light. Most of his teachings are actually borrowed from the questionable Quran-exposed traditional doctrine from the Old Scripture partnership with God, claiming that we are sons of God etc...
When I say modernity, I am meaning scientific and sociopolitical norms of today's world homosexuality, transgenderism, big bang theory, astrophysics, big bang theory, dinosaurs, evolution, the age of the earth(geology) etc..
Most seemingly are going astray...

[HP_TECH]

By the way you are all terribly wrong about the reptilian brain premise.
You are so wrapped up in your belief that science is at the forefront of truth seeking, while in many cases it is not so.
I am disappointed in some of the statements some have made so glibly.
If you were earnestly researching truth instead piggybacking off each other's ideas that stroke your preconceived biases, you would have realized that the model of brain depicted in that post or the idea that the base of the brain/forebrain or basal ganglia is a part of the brain evolved from reptilian ancestors has been long rejected by the majority of neuroscientists.
MacLean whom you are following blindly (whom had no authority from Allah for which he conjectured) claimed that this part of the brain was present in reptiles and birds, well turns out that this portion is waaaaay much smaller in birds and reptiles it is only a small portion of their brains, and guess what it is found in the brains of all "modern" vertebrates (including many fish, mammals and amphibians).
Everything previously believed in the 1960's about the sauropsid behavior has been discarded.
Your theory and hypothesis of jinn or reptile being within us and being supported by science goes right where it belongs in the garbage.
Now if you are interested in the truth learn how to really research, if you want I can show you how to search for peer-reviewed journals articles, but do not ever try to deceive others based upon lazy half-assed "research" that is just Confirmation bias a logical fallacy many of you commit over and over.

It is annoying to those who believe that people say about Allah what they have no knowledge of.
You are overstepping the limit, so beware.

You all have been deceived and demonstrating how much of followers you are.

Evolution itself is a farce, however scientists themselves have discarded this dysfunctional and inaccurate model of the brain yet you against logic and reason you hang on to it, because you reject the existence of ethereal non corporeal beings which Quran clearly describes. Is Muslim what you call yourselves? Then start over the Book and abandon the footsteps you have been following.

[imrankhawaja]

Peace,

No one knows our true earthly origin/evolution.
However, we are free to guess/speculate/conject
and hypothesize. Quran Kareem is the best source.

police

yeh absolutely we can only sure about the information which is written in quran...

although the era of evolution based on stages and it left blank for us to discover things . and work on it... and we just begin to understand things... age of earth, age of early life cell, species... so on...

our own history of character(what we have inside) is the relevant subject of quran... and it started from the event what is mentioning here... after that things are pretty clear...

the stage in between evolution/ creation and perfection is quite hard to make sure thats hwo things happen...
but key points are...

the body of human(animal) evolved in stages... first birth from the womb of earth second birth from the womb of mother.. 71 14-18
the character/self of all humanity were also created and asked them about this trust which they accepted...33 72

and the offer was not only to one person becoz the word bani adam clear more that the characters all of them were asked...

according to 7 172...

even its telling me not only body of human evolved the characters of human also evolved or the system which we cannot grasp... thats the missing link and from there the ways of science and religion seperated becoz science ask for evidence...

but the missing link always remain missing .. the missing link is actually how can human being become so smart to create things ... (thats what we call intelligence trust or whatever)

even some ancient aliens theories suggest it was aliens who come from sky and perfected the human being with intelligence... H2 channel documentry...

becoz the theory of darwin is critised by lot of people and its on the ending stage like this voodoo
but it does not mean evolution not exist and some parts of this theory is also matched with quran like process in stages and life started from single cell ..life started from water etc ..God knows best..

but his cliam regarding this is unscientific that human evolved from apes...

if human derived from monkey , why there are still monkey there... lol
monkey was always monkey,,
goat was always goat...
humo saphiens was always homo saphine...

[hawk99]

yeh absolutely we can only sure about the information which is written in quran...

if human derived from monkey , why there are still monkey there... lol
monkey was always monkey,,
goat was always goat...
humo saphiens was always homo saphine...

Good Point!

Anyway why would a monkey become a Jackass (human).
Human beings have always been what they are today, that is the reason
why none have found the missing link. And no, there was never giant people
roaming the earth until someone proves it by finding a giant human
skeleton or parts thereof.

MY maan handshake

You are absolutely right, in that we are free to do all the above, but would believers conjecture and say about Allah what they do not know?

Many say "we believe" while their words betray them, this ayat
is a distinguisher from those who accept the clear verses and
the ambiguous verses without the need to solve the ambiguous
verses.

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or
fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the
Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity
follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching
for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except
Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say
"We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord"
and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

So do I need to know who was the first man, no not really.
How many stars are there? uumm I have no idea.
Where is Allah? Let's see nope
Where is Jannah? uh I got nothing

peace

[reel]

i m tied with what i said... you took out the word competetion from it... and get confused in between evolution and creation.. anyway...

so you agree about competetion /event and next question you ask is in bold....
the answer is yeh with the meanings of verses its clear that angels know some of the future what they predicted ... but they underestimated the creation thats what they dnt know.

only God is the source of ultimate knowledge... that what they said after all this... its mean even after knowing the outcomes of human succession in earth they still unaware from the hidden side of that blood sheeder ...and after losing the competetion they pay honour /sujood ... to human.. obviously with the command of God...

Reread what I wrote. I was showing you your own answer loophole. The reason why i do not agree with it.

so thats what the answering in the reply of this... i m still confuse.... you quoted me for this...

RED is there is any human being before adam in quran is mention?

so according to you reptilian brain side is human being before adam... hmm

I told you to read the slides.

this verse is not the answer of any of my question above... infact this verse is regarding the stages of evolution of human being ...

obviously human being did not magically come into existence.. but the character/realself is started from the creation of human being and first character in the history of mankind is adam... you are still in between evolution and creation thats y in the start i wanted you to focus on the difference .. in the end i try highlight somethings you may start understanding things from there... hope that will help... inshallah

Umm, whether Adam is one human or more is not yet decided by many on this forum. I am inclined to go with one, but I would like to see other members' explanations also. Know that first Allah creates and then evolves.

ok hope so you will find that verses then present these verses here we will discuss about them mean while .. what i learn from quran... about creation evolution and perfection here is a little bit summary of it...

the creation of body.... from the womb of earth...(first stage) evolutionary
the perfection of body.... with life force same apply to other species(evolutionary)

after that a trust offer meanwhile the creation of the real character/real person come into existence... that suppose to emerged in the already created body what we usually call homo spahiens...(creation started)

Thank God, we are not going towards an agreement.
handshake
What's scary is that this evolution of the baby in the womb seems to echo the evolution seen for the brain of the human. Same seems to be true of how human evolved on the planet. That's why, that slide is so important. Hence, I was saying its not easy to ignore the fact how evolution is so scattered around us.

perfection stage and start of perfected human being having a trust/authority

And your Lord said to the angels ?I am creating a human being from a hardened clay. So when I perfect him, and blow of My Spirit (Rouh) in him, you shall yield to him." (1528-29)
or

?For your Lord said to the angels ?I am creating a human being from clay. So when I have evolved him, and breathed into him from My Spirit (Rouh), then you shall yield to him.? (3871-72)

so evolution then creation of characters then perfection ...

I do not believe our evolution is done just yet. We also have the warning in the Quran that if he wants he can replace us -\

evolution what we read in science is just the study of human body the missing links what they have no answer if you ponder all of this then may b you understand what i was on about...

I did some years ago reject evolution because of the missing links. I was also asking why creatures now don't turn into humans. But then I realized that I was behaving like an atheist who needs evidence of God through science. I was practicing double standard because I could see the signs of evolution everywhere, yet was stubbornly asking for missing links and evidence of creatures turning into humans. I like the fact that Quran says so much about it. At the same time, it makes me laugh at scientists who believe we need to act like animals because thats our natural selves. They are especially too serious about men spreading seeds which turned out to be scientifically false. Dawkins is still preaching why it is so beneficial for men to have multiple partners. Unfortunately, many fell for such foolish science and turned promiscuous, attracting stds and poor lifestyle.

[reel]

By the way you are all terribly wrong about the reptilian brain premise.
You are so wrapped up in your belief that science is at the forefront of truth seeking, while in many cases it is not so.
I am disappointed in some of the statements some have made so glibly.
If you were earnestly researching truth instead piggybacking off each other's ideas that stroke your preconceived biases, you would have realized that the model of brain depicted in that post or the idea that the base of the brain/forebrain or basal ganglia is a part of the brain evolved from reptilian ancestors has been long rejected by the majority of neuroscientists.
MacLean whom you are following blindly (whom had no authority from Allah for which he conjectured) claimed that this part of the brain was present in reptiles and birds, well turns out that this portion is waaaaay much smaller in birds and reptiles it is only a small portion of their brains, and guess what it is found in the brains of all "modern" vertebrates (including many fish, mammals and amphibians).
Everything previously believed in the 1960's about the sauropsid behavior has been discarded.
Your theory and hypothesis of jinn or reptile being within us and being supported by science goes right where it belongs in the garbage.
Now if you are interested in the truth learn how to really research, if you want I can show you how to search for peer-reviewed journals articles, but do not ever try to deceive others based upon lazy half-assed "research" that is just Confirmation bias a logical fallacy many of you commit over and over.

It is annoying to those who believe that people say about Allah what they have no knowledge of.
You are overstepping the limit, so beware.

You all have been deceived and demonstrating how much of followers you are.

Evolution itself is a farce, however scientists themselves have discarded this dysfunctional and inaccurate model of the brain yet you against logic and reason you hang on to it, because you reject the existence of ethereal non corporeal beings which Quran clearly describes. Is Muslim what you call yourselves? Then start over the Book and abandon the footsteps you have been following.

I think the idea here is about the raw side of ours. Our bodily urge which MOF was trying to tell us. Did we evolve from reptilians? Who knows? Only thing I know is that we came out of earth and water. And certainly, at once, we didn't start eating with knives and forks.

[HP_TECH]

I think the idea here is about the raw side of ours. Our bodily urge which MOF was trying to tell us. Did we evolve from reptilians? Who knows? Only thing I know is that we came out of earth and water. And certainly, at once, we didn't start eating with knives and forks.

Refraining from bodily/earthly urges gossiping, being suspicious of others, indulging in extravagant behavior of food consumption, wealth accumulation, intoxicants, gambling, sexual intercourse with unlawful partners, secret lovers, teasing other people, calling each other b malicious nicknames, making indecent rumors, lying, concealing truth, etc... are ALL very Quranic teachings and they are easily comprehendible in truthfully any translation they come even sectarian. Therefore, to claim that MOF was trying to tell us any of that is to me ridiculous especially when he adamantly claims that the translation or even Arabic interpretation of the Quran is flawed....

It is a valid question who knows?
Allah and those of knowledge/divine intuition know within their hearts the smell of falsehood and the fragrance of truth when they encounter it.

I let reason rule over my deductions, I have studied evolution, I have studied cell biology, genetics etc.. Science is a wonderful tool, like gun powder it can serve many useful purpose for the benefit/progress of mankind but in the wrong hands it can be harmful, right?
Same is with science. Science is a method of reasoning, not a doctrine or a dogmatic system of beliefs that most people now days have turned it into.
Studying these subjects and being guided by non other by my Most Gracious Sustainer and Creator I was able to see the deception devise by some of the components of these subjects. Macroevolution is bs sister. Microevolution which we observe microscopically in bacteria is a stretch by the definition of that very term because bacterial cells reproduce at very rapid rates and to be frank the are only adapting to their environments.
So for you to sit here and allude to the idea of evolution as main stream would have it is irritating to someone who has been true to True Science and True Faith.

From a scientific perspective there is no possibility of one common ancestor between all living beings. You can't even begin to understand how dogmatic scientists are. In the community some have been pushing for the theory that it is impossible that archaea and prokaryotes came from one common ancestor because of the radical differences in their membrane structure. This is huge! But you probably won't understand how huge it is. The theme that the dogmatic scientists want to push is the everything came from one organism and that ties beautifully with their notion that something came out of nothing(shirk!), because low complexity can rise to high complexity(BS!).

I hope I am not talking to the wall, but as a young ambitious student of Allah and reason(true science not false dogmatic religion) I have much evidence that indicates macroevolution is unevidenced, big bang theory is a fable, heliocentric model of universe/astrophysics is a complete lie.

If you wish to however follow and listen to the scientists whose agenda is to deceive the public about the Origin of Life and their Creator and the apparent nature of the Haven built for us then go ahead and do so.
BUTTT, know that you are befriending the disbelievers rather than the believer who is just as vexed in the field as those who oppose your deen.

Please wake up and follow reason

[Man_of_Faith]

Therefore, to claim that MOF was trying to tell us any of that is to me ridiculous especially when he adamantly claims that the translation or even Arabic interpretation of the Quran is flawed....

If you know it so well so then why are you falling for it, i.e. the bodily urges?

[HP_TECH]

If you know it so well so then why are you falling for it, i.e. the bodily urges?

I'll tell you what I am not falling for

-I am not falling for one who claims he is the prophet Immanuel supposedly prophesied in Isaiah, when he clearly does not fulfill that very prophesy
-I am not falling for one who claims Quran is flawed when Allah is Guardian over it
-I am not falling for one who claims that he alone knows the true meaning/ or has the correct interpretation of Arabic Quran when he is Swedish European with no background in Classical Arabic and has to as well rely on lexicons like everyone else...

[good_logic]

Peace .
Here we go again, I try once more to make an even bigger fool of myself.

Serves me right for discussing things I have no knowledge of.

So does Qoran tell us anything then?
"We initiated all living things from water" 2130
So Darwin's famous statement that "life began as a `simple' cell" is laughable. the cell was too complex!!!!

Quote
Some evolutionists have stated that the human gene and the monkey's gene are 90% similar. However, even if the similarity was 99%, we are still talking about 300, 000, 000 nucleotides that must be haphazardly re-arranged to change the monkey into a human. The probability laws preclude this as an utter impossibility. The human gene contains 30, 000, 000, 000 nucleotides; 1% of that is 300, 000, 000.

Fine, I will stop and conclude that evolution is possible only within a given species.

Hawk, you are right . I better concentrate on trying my hardest and spending my time understanding the message and how to redeem myself.
May the Lord forgive me and guide me to the right path.
I fear if I regress ,then I really would become like a monkey or worse.
GOD bless.
Peace.

[imrankhawaja]

So Darwin's famous statement that "life began as a `simple' cell" is laughable. the cell was too complex!!!!

peace GL

i think we should all watch this for once... there is something we must need to know how humans cells are interlocked with each cell and not only humans but also animals... same like a computer programme , if you put wrong programming sets of instructions , the output will be different than required...

GL may b you will gona like that video specially from 26 th minute... i watched that documentry ages ago ... the evolution is not a problem but darwinsim is a real problem actually....

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjvuwne0RrE

[reel]

Refraining from bodily/earthly urges gossiping, being suspicious of others, indulging in extravagant behavior of food consumption, wealth accumulation, intoxicants, gambling, sexual intercourse with unlawful partners, secret lovers, teasing other people, calling each other b malicious nicknames, making indecent rumors, lying, concealing truth, etc... are ALL very Quranic teachings and they are easily comprehendible in truthfully any translation they come even sectarian. Therefore, to claim that MOF was trying to tell us any of that is to me ridiculous especially when he adamantly claims that the translation or even Arabic interpretation of the Quran is flawed....

That is what you have caught right. Quran shows them without the need to change its verses. I do not agree with him there. However, the meanings of certain words of the Book have been intentionally or maybe out of pressure changed by the sectarian scholars. What I have realized is that the only way to get to truth is by remembering that God wants us to be successors and not savages. This is what puts a limit to how we can understand the Quran.

I let reason rule over my deductions, I have studied evolution, I have studied cell biology, genetics etc.. Science is a wonderful tool, like gun powder it can serve many useful purpose for the benefit/progress of mankind but in the wrong hands it can be harmful, right?
Same is with science. Science is a method of reasoning, not a doctrine or a dogmatic system of beliefs that most people now days have turned it into.
Studying these subjects and being guided by non other by my Most Gracious Sustainer and Creator I was able to see the deception devise by some of the components of these subjects. Macroevolution is bs sister. Microevolution which we observe microscopically in bacteria is a stretch by the definition of that very term because bacterial cells reproduce at very rapid rates and to be frank the are only adapting to their environments.
So for you to sit here and allude to the idea of evolution as main stream would have it is irritating to someone who has been true to True Science and True Faith.

Yeah, my sis told me of someone who wrote a dishonest paper on lab based evolution experiment.

From a scientific perspective there is no possibility of one common ancestor between all living beings. You can't even begin to understand how dogmatic scientists are. In the community some have been pushing for the theory that it is impossible that archaea and prokaryotes came from one common ancestor because of the radical differences in their membrane structure. This is huge! But you probably won't understand how huge it is. The theme that the dogmatic scientists want to push is the everything came from one organism and that ties beautifully with their notion that something came out of nothing(shirk!), because low complexity can rise to high complexity(BS!).

But the question is, why is there a need for a common ancestor for all living things? Cant different ancestors for different creatures come together at the same time?

I hope I am not talking to the wall, but as a young ambitious student of Allah and reason(true science not false dogmatic religion) I have much evidence that indicates macroevolution is unevidenced, big bang theory is a fable, heliocentric model of universe/astrophysics is a complete lie.

If you wish to however follow and listen to the scientists whose agenda is to deceive the public about the Origin of Life and their Creator and the apparent nature of the Haven built for us then go ahead and do so.
BUTTT, know that you are befriending the disbelievers rather than the believer who is just as vexed in the field as those who oppose your deen.

Please wake up and follow reason

I like to remain open to possibilities. If you read my earliest posts you will notice I do not take things at face value and I have a great aversion to worshiping of authority whether it is a scientist or some scholar from Islam.

handshake