Would you commit shirk if God told you so ?
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Peace reel, Imra.
Have a break,have a cup of tea.
peace GL
i had my cup of tea... lol but without sugar ...
thanx for you input , we all are here to learn something from eachother... so i also have some understanding as learner... hence i shared it... so you always welcome to share your knowledge sir...
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Peace,
No one knows our true earthly origin/evolution.
However, we are free to guess/speculate/conject
and hypothesize. Quran Kareem is the best source.police
MY maan handshake
You are absolutely right, in that we are free to do all the above, but would believers conjecture and say about Allah what they do not know?
I see many of them conforming to modernity and hanging off Man of Faith's every word as if it were revelation, while a majority of his rhetoric is not referenced, unreasonable with Quranich context and Light. Most of his teachings are actually borrowed from the questionable Quran-exposed traditional doctrine from the Old Scripture partnership with God, claiming that we are sons of God etc...
When I say modernity, I am meaning scientific and sociopolitical norms of today's world homosexuality, transgenderism, big bang theory, astrophysics, big bang theory, dinosaurs, evolution, the age of the earth(geology) etc..
Most seemingly are going astray... -
By the way you are all terribly wrong about the reptilian brain premise.
You are so wrapped up in your belief that science is at the forefront of truth seeking, while in many cases it is not so.
I am disappointed in some of the statements some have made so glibly.
If you were earnestly researching truth instead piggybacking off each other's ideas that stroke your preconceived biases, you would have realized that the model of brain depicted in that post or the idea that the base of the brain/forebrain or basal ganglia is a part of the brain evolved from reptilian ancestors has been long rejected by the majority of neuroscientists.
MacLean whom you are following blindly (whom had no authority from Allah for which he conjectured) claimed that this part of the brain was present in reptiles and birds, well turns out that this portion is waaaaay much smaller in birds and reptiles it is only a small portion of their brains, and guess what it is found in the brains of all "modern" vertebrates (including many fish, mammals and amphibians).
Everything previously believed in the 1960's about the sauropsid behavior has been discarded.
Your theory and hypothesis of jinn or reptile being within us and being supported by science goes right where it belongs in the garbage.
Now if you are interested in the truth learn how to really research, if you want I can show you how to search for peer-reviewed journals articles, but do not ever try to deceive others based upon lazy half-assed "research" that is just Confirmation bias a logical fallacy many of you commit over and over.It is annoying to those who believe that people say about Allah what they have no knowledge of.
You are overstepping the limit, so beware.You all have been deceived and demonstrating how much of followers you are.
Evolution itself is a farce, however scientists themselves have discarded this dysfunctional and inaccurate model of the brain yet you against logic and reason you hang on to it, because you reject the existence of ethereal non corporeal beings which Quran clearly describes. Is Muslim what you call yourselves? Then start over the Book and abandon the footsteps you have been following.
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Peace,
No one knows our true earthly origin/evolution.
However, we are free to guess/speculate/conject
and hypothesize. Quran Kareem is the best source.police
yeh absolutely we can only sure about the information which is written in quran...
although the era of evolution based on stages and it left blank for us to discover things . and work on it... and we just begin to understand things... age of earth, age of early life cell, species... so on...
our own history of character(what we have inside) is the relevant subject of quran... and it started from the event what is mentioning here... after that things are pretty clear...
the stage in between evolution/ creation and perfection is quite hard to make sure thats hwo things happen...
but key points are...the body of human(animal) evolved in stages... first birth from the womb of earth second birth from the womb of mother.. 71 14-18
the character/self of all humanity were also created and asked them about this trust which they accepted...33 72and the offer was not only to one person becoz the word bani adam clear more that the characters all of them were asked...
according to 7 172...
even its telling me not only body of human evolved the characters of human also evolved or the system which we cannot grasp... thats the missing link and from there the ways of science and religion seperated becoz science ask for evidence...
but the missing link always remain missing .. the missing link is actually how can human being become so smart to create things ... (thats what we call intelligence trust or whatever)
even some ancient aliens theories suggest it was aliens who come from sky and perfected the human being with intelligence... H2 channel documentry...
becoz the theory of darwin is critised by lot of people and its on the ending stage like this voodoo
but it does not mean evolution not exist and some parts of this theory is also matched with quran like process in stages and life started from single cell ..life started from water etc ..God knows best..but his cliam regarding this is unscientific that human evolved from apes...
if human derived from monkey , why there are still monkey there... lol
monkey was always monkey,,
goat was always goat...
humo saphiens was always homo saphine... -
yeh absolutely we can only sure about the information which is written in quran...
if human derived from monkey , why there are still monkey there... lol
monkey was always monkey,,
goat was always goat...
humo saphiens was always homo saphine...Good Point!
Anyway why would a monkey become a Jackass (human).
Human beings have always been what they are today, that is the reason
why none have found the missing link. And no, there was never giant people
roaming the earth until someone proves it by finding a giant human
skeleton or parts thereof.MY maan handshake
You are absolutely right, in that we are free to do all the above, but would believers conjecture and say about Allah what they do not know?
Many say "we believe" while their words betray them, this ayat
is a distinguisher from those who accept the clear verses and
the ambiguous verses without the need to solve the ambiguous
verses.He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or
fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the
Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity
follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching
for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except
Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say
"We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord"
and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.So do I need to know who was the first man, no not really.
How many stars are there? uumm I have no idea.
Where is Allah? Let's see nope
Where is Jannah? uh I got nothingpeace
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i m tied with what i said... you took out the word competetion from it... and get confused in between evolution and creation.. anyway...
so you agree about competetion /event and next question you ask is in bold....
the answer is yeh with the meanings of verses its clear that angels know some of the future what they predicted ... but they underestimated the creation thats what they dnt know.only God is the source of ultimate knowledge... that what they said after all this... its mean even after knowing the outcomes of human succession in earth they still unaware from the hidden side of that blood sheeder ...and after losing the competetion they pay honour /sujood ... to human.. obviously with the command of God...
Reread what I wrote. I was showing you your own answer loophole. The reason why i do not agree with it.
so thats what the answering in the reply of this... i m still confuse.... you quoted me for this...
RED is there is any human being before adam in quran is mention?
so according to you reptilian brain side is human being before adam... hmm
I told you to read the slides.
this verse is not the answer of any of my question above... infact this verse is regarding the stages of evolution of human being ...
obviously human being did not magically come into existence.. but the character/realself is started from the creation of human being and first character in the history of mankind is adam... you are still in between evolution and creation thats y in the start i wanted you to focus on the difference .. in the end i try highlight somethings you may start understanding things from there... hope that will help... inshallah
Umm, whether Adam is one human or more is not yet decided by many on this forum. I am inclined to go with one, but I would like to see other members' explanations also. Know that first Allah creates and then evolves.
ok hope so you will find that verses then present these verses here we will discuss about them mean while .. what i learn from quran... about creation evolution and perfection here is a little bit summary of it...
the creation of body.... from the womb of earth...(first stage) evolutionary
the perfection of body.... with life force same apply to other species(evolutionary)after that a trust offer meanwhile the creation of the real character/real person come into existence... that suppose to emerged in the already created body what we usually call homo spahiens...(creation started)
Thank God, we are not going towards an agreement.
handshake
What's scary is that this evolution of the baby in the womb seems to echo the evolution seen for the brain of the human. Same seems to be true of how human evolved on the planet. That's why, that slide is so important. Hence, I was saying its not easy to ignore the fact how evolution is so scattered around us.perfection stage and start of perfected human being having a trust/authority
And your Lord said to the angels ?I am creating a human being from a hardened clay. So when I perfect him, and blow of My Spirit (Rouh) in him, you shall yield to him." (1528-29)
or?For your Lord said to the angels ?I am creating a human being from clay. So when I have evolved him, and breathed into him from My Spirit (Rouh), then you shall yield to him.? (3871-72)
so evolution then creation of characters then perfection ...
I do not believe our evolution is done just yet. We also have the warning in the Quran that if he wants he can replace us -\
evolution what we read in science is just the study of human body the missing links what they have no answer if you ponder all of this then may b you understand what i was on about...
I did some years ago reject evolution because of the missing links. I was also asking why creatures now don't turn into humans. But then I realized that I was behaving like an atheist who needs evidence of God through science. I was practicing double standard because I could see the signs of evolution everywhere, yet was stubbornly asking for missing links and evidence of creatures turning into humans. I like the fact that Quran says so much about it. At the same time, it makes me laugh at scientists who believe we need to act like animals because thats our natural selves. They are especially too serious about men spreading seeds which turned out to be scientifically false. Dawkins is still preaching why it is so beneficial for men to have multiple partners. Unfortunately, many fell for such foolish science and turned promiscuous, attracting stds and poor lifestyle.
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By the way you are all terribly wrong about the reptilian brain premise.
You are so wrapped up in your belief that science is at the forefront of truth seeking, while in many cases it is not so.
I am disappointed in some of the statements some have made so glibly.
If you were earnestly researching truth instead piggybacking off each other's ideas that stroke your preconceived biases, you would have realized that the model of brain depicted in that post or the idea that the base of the brain/forebrain or basal ganglia is a part of the brain evolved from reptilian ancestors has been long rejected by the majority of neuroscientists.
MacLean whom you are following blindly (whom had no authority from Allah for which he conjectured) claimed that this part of the brain was present in reptiles and birds, well turns out that this portion is waaaaay much smaller in birds and reptiles it is only a small portion of their brains, and guess what it is found in the brains of all "modern" vertebrates (including many fish, mammals and amphibians).
Everything previously believed in the 1960's about the sauropsid behavior has been discarded.
Your theory and hypothesis of jinn or reptile being within us and being supported by science goes right where it belongs in the garbage.
Now if you are interested in the truth learn how to really research, if you want I can show you how to search for peer-reviewed journals articles, but do not ever try to deceive others based upon lazy half-assed "research" that is just Confirmation bias a logical fallacy many of you commit over and over.It is annoying to those who believe that people say about Allah what they have no knowledge of.
You are overstepping the limit, so beware.You all have been deceived and demonstrating how much of followers you are.
Evolution itself is a farce, however scientists themselves have discarded this dysfunctional and inaccurate model of the brain yet you against logic and reason you hang on to it, because you reject the existence of ethereal non corporeal beings which Quran clearly describes. Is Muslim what you call yourselves? Then start over the Book and abandon the footsteps you have been following.
I think the idea here is about the raw side of ours. Our bodily urge which MOF was trying to tell us. Did we evolve from reptilians? Who knows? Only thing I know is that we came out of earth and water. And certainly, at once, we didn't start eating with knives and forks.
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I think the idea here is about the raw side of ours. Our bodily urge which MOF was trying to tell us. Did we evolve from reptilians? Who knows? Only thing I know is that we came out of earth and water. And certainly, at once, we didn't start eating with knives and forks.
Refraining from bodily/earthly urges gossiping, being suspicious of others, indulging in extravagant behavior of food consumption, wealth accumulation, intoxicants, gambling, sexual intercourse with unlawful partners, secret lovers, teasing other people, calling each other b malicious nicknames, making indecent rumors, lying, concealing truth, etc... are ALL very Quranic teachings and they are easily comprehendible in truthfully any translation they come even sectarian. Therefore, to claim that MOF was trying to tell us any of that is to me ridiculous especially when he adamantly claims that the translation or even Arabic interpretation of the Quran is flawed....
It is a valid question who knows?
Allah and those of knowledge/divine intuition know within their hearts the smell of falsehood and the fragrance of truth when they encounter it.I let reason rule over my deductions, I have studied evolution, I have studied cell biology, genetics etc.. Science is a wonderful tool, like gun powder it can serve many useful purpose for the benefit/progress of mankind but in the wrong hands it can be harmful, right?
Same is with science. Science is a method of reasoning, not a doctrine or a dogmatic system of beliefs that most people now days have turned it into.
Studying these subjects and being guided by non other by my Most Gracious Sustainer and Creator I was able to see the deception devise by some of the components of these subjects. Macroevolution is bs sister. Microevolution which we observe microscopically in bacteria is a stretch by the definition of that very term because bacterial cells reproduce at very rapid rates and to be frank the are only adapting to their environments.
So for you to sit here and allude to the idea of evolution as main stream would have it is irritating to someone who has been true to True Science and True Faith.From a scientific perspective there is no possibility of one common ancestor between all living beings. You can't even begin to understand how dogmatic scientists are. In the community some have been pushing for the theory that it is impossible that archaea and prokaryotes came from one common ancestor because of the radical differences in their membrane structure. This is huge! But you probably won't understand how huge it is. The theme that the dogmatic scientists want to push is the everything came from one organism and that ties beautifully with their notion that something came out of nothing(shirk!), because low complexity can rise to high complexity(BS!).
I hope I am not talking to the wall, but as a young ambitious student of Allah and reason(true science not false dogmatic religion) I have much evidence that indicates macroevolution is unevidenced, big bang theory is a fable, heliocentric model of universe/astrophysics is a complete lie.
If you wish to however follow and listen to the scientists whose agenda is to deceive the public about the Origin of Life and their Creator and the apparent nature of the Haven built for us then go ahead and do so.
BUTTT, know that you are befriending the disbelievers rather than the believer who is just as vexed in the field as those who oppose your deen.Please wake up and follow reason
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Therefore, to claim that MOF was trying to tell us any of that is to me ridiculous especially when he adamantly claims that the translation or even Arabic interpretation of the Quran is flawed....
If you know it so well so then why are you falling for it, i.e. the bodily urges?
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If you know it so well so then why are you falling for it, i.e. the bodily urges?
I'll tell you what I am not falling for
-I am not falling for one who claims he is the prophet Immanuel supposedly prophesied in Isaiah, when he clearly does not fulfill that very prophesy
-I am not falling for one who claims Quran is flawed when Allah is Guardian over it
-I am not falling for one who claims that he alone knows the true meaning/ or has the correct interpretation of Arabic Quran when he is Swedish European with no background in Classical Arabic and has to as well rely on lexicons like everyone else... -
Peace .
Here we go again, I try once more to make an even bigger fool of myself.Serves me right for discussing things I have no knowledge of.
So does Qoran tell us anything then?
"We initiated all living things from water" 2130
So Darwin's famous statement that "life began as a `simple' cell" is laughable. the cell was too complex!!!!Quote
Some evolutionists have stated that the human gene and the monkey's gene are 90% similar. However, even if the similarity was 99%, we are still talking about 300, 000, 000 nucleotides that must be haphazardly re-arranged to change the monkey into a human. The probability laws preclude this as an utter impossibility. The human gene contains 30, 000, 000, 000 nucleotides; 1% of that is 300, 000, 000.Fine, I will stop and conclude that evolution is possible only within a given species.
Hawk, you are right . I better concentrate on trying my hardest and spending my time understanding the message and how to redeem myself.
May the Lord forgive me and guide me to the right path.
I fear if I regress ,then I really would become like a monkey or worse.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
So Darwin's famous statement that "life began as a `simple' cell" is laughable. the cell was too complex!!!!
peace GL
i think we should all watch this for once... there is something we must need to know how humans cells are interlocked with each cell and not only humans but also animals... same like a computer programme , if you put wrong programming sets of instructions , the output will be different than required...
GL may b you will gona like that video specially from 26 th minute... i watched that documentry ages ago ... the evolution is not a problem but darwinsim is a real problem actually....
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjvuwne0RrE
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Refraining from bodily/earthly urges gossiping, being suspicious of others, indulging in extravagant behavior of food consumption, wealth accumulation, intoxicants, gambling, sexual intercourse with unlawful partners, secret lovers, teasing other people, calling each other b malicious nicknames, making indecent rumors, lying, concealing truth, etc... are ALL very Quranic teachings and they are easily comprehendible in truthfully any translation they come even sectarian. Therefore, to claim that MOF was trying to tell us any of that is to me ridiculous especially when he adamantly claims that the translation or even Arabic interpretation of the Quran is flawed....
That is what you have caught right. Quran shows them without the need to change its verses. I do not agree with him there. However, the meanings of certain words of the Book have been intentionally or maybe out of pressure changed by the sectarian scholars. What I have realized is that the only way to get to truth is by remembering that God wants us to be successors and not savages. This is what puts a limit to how we can understand the Quran.
I let reason rule over my deductions, I have studied evolution, I have studied cell biology, genetics etc.. Science is a wonderful tool, like gun powder it can serve many useful purpose for the benefit/progress of mankind but in the wrong hands it can be harmful, right?
Same is with science. Science is a method of reasoning, not a doctrine or a dogmatic system of beliefs that most people now days have turned it into.
Studying these subjects and being guided by non other by my Most Gracious Sustainer and Creator I was able to see the deception devise by some of the components of these subjects. Macroevolution is bs sister. Microevolution which we observe microscopically in bacteria is a stretch by the definition of that very term because bacterial cells reproduce at very rapid rates and to be frank the are only adapting to their environments.
So for you to sit here and allude to the idea of evolution as main stream would have it is irritating to someone who has been true to True Science and True Faith.Yeah, my sis told me of someone who wrote a dishonest paper on lab based evolution experiment.
From a scientific perspective there is no possibility of one common ancestor between all living beings. You can't even begin to understand how dogmatic scientists are. In the community some have been pushing for the theory that it is impossible that archaea and prokaryotes came from one common ancestor because of the radical differences in their membrane structure. This is huge! But you probably won't understand how huge it is. The theme that the dogmatic scientists want to push is the everything came from one organism and that ties beautifully with their notion that something came out of nothing(shirk!), because low complexity can rise to high complexity(BS!).
But the question is, why is there a need for a common ancestor for all living things? Cant different ancestors for different creatures come together at the same time?
I hope I am not talking to the wall, but as a young ambitious student of Allah and reason(true science not false dogmatic religion) I have much evidence that indicates macroevolution is unevidenced, big bang theory is a fable, heliocentric model of universe/astrophysics is a complete lie.
If you wish to however follow and listen to the scientists whose agenda is to deceive the public about the Origin of Life and their Creator and the apparent nature of the Haven built for us then go ahead and do so.
BUTTT, know that you are befriending the disbelievers rather than the believer who is just as vexed in the field as those who oppose your deen.Please wake up and follow reason
I like to remain open to possibilities. If you read my earliest posts you will notice I do not take things at face value and I have a great aversion to worshiping of authority whether it is a scientist or some scholar from Islam.
handshake
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Reel,
I am not changing any verses. I am correcting the translation and interpretation of the ancient language. Certain things are so obvious the clergymen got it right too in their very flawed interpretation. In many cases it is just common sense. And the secterian interpretation of Quran does not say Satan is of the bodily and is an affecting factor of who you are right now. There are many things that the sectarian interpretation does not say because its space is filled instead with mumbo jumbo.
Be well
Amenuel -
Reel,
I am not changing any verses. I am correcting the translation and interpretation of the ancient language. Certain things are so obvious the clergymen got it right too in their very flawed interpretation. In many cases it is just common sense. And the secterian interpretation of Quran does not say Satan is of the bodily and is an affecting factor of who you are right now. There are many things that the sectarian interpretation does not say because its space is filled instead with mumbo jumbo.
Be well
AmenuelI think your work is great MOF, however, I still don't see how Allah in the Quran is not refering to God. I think this is where you are making a mistake, maybe you have gone too far even though you started on the right track. Satan or jin is the bodily desires can make sense but saying Allah is not God in the Quran then it starts to not make sense.
I mean no disrespect, I believe you have pride in a way by calling yourself a prophet when the Quran stated the Mohamed was the seal of the Prophets. You deny that verse to claim you're a prophet. I think you should go over these important points for yourself.
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But the question is, why is there a need for a common ancestor for all living things? Cant different ancestors for different creatures come together at the same time?
Yes, they can theoretically (which I do not agree with) but the theory wants to push that all living organisms came from ONE common ancestor. You see there are three domains of life archaea, prokaryotes(bacteria) and eukaryotes(us, plants, animals an surprisingly yeast). Scientists believe all three came from one common ancestor but an honest study of archaea suggests that they are too structurally diverse to have come from the same common ancestor. Meaning there was a separate ancestor of no relation to prokaryotes and eukaryotes. To claim that there may have been multiple "primordial" ancestors is compromising from the atheist dogmatic view that randomness and chance (lightning, heat) gave rise to polypeptides from inorganic compounds and then these peptides gained complexity and eventually gave rise to cells. The chance of that occurring is already statistically impossible and I would like to if I get a chance some day clearly illustrate that God Willing(in another thread), so imagine the chance of that happening twice to a completely different organism or even possibly multiple organism....bye bye atheist propaganda fake science bs!
I like to remain open to possibilities. If you read my earliest posts you will notice I do not take things at face value and I have a great aversion to worshiping of authority whether it is a scientist or some scholar from Islam.
handshake
Great! Keep at it! handshake )
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Reel,
I am not changing any verses. I am correcting the translation and interpretation of the ancient language. Certain things are so obvious the clergymen got it right too in their very flawed interpretation. In many cases it is just common sense. And the secterian interpretation of Quran does not say Satan is of the bodily and is an affecting factor of who you are right now. There are many things that the sectarian interpretation does not say because its space is filled instead with mumbo jumbo.
Be well
AmenuelEveryone here is trying to do the same. We all know some meanings of the words have been massacred by the uneducated scholars. But some of your claims truly are far fetched. I think you should first translate all of Quran or some Surahs. Present them here so all of us can see if they are in line with the environment.
Yes, they can theoretically (which I do not agree with) but the theory wants to push that all living organisms came from ONE common ancestor. You see there are three domains of life archaea, prokaryotes(bacteria) and eukaryotes(us, plants, animals an surprisingly yeast). Scientists believe all three came from one common ancestor but an honest study of archaea suggests that they are too structurally diverse to have come from the same common ancestor. Meaning there was a separate ancestor of no relation to prokaryotes and eukaryotes. To claim that there may have been multiple "primordial" ancestors is compromising from the atheist dogmatic view that randomness and chance (lightning, heat) gave rise to polypeptides from inorganic compounds and then these peptides gained complexity and eventually gave rise to cells. The chance of that occurring is already statistically impossible and I would like to if I get a chance some day clearly illustrate that God Willing(in another thread), so imagine the chance of that happening twice to a completely different organism or even possibly multiple organism....bye bye atheist propaganda fake science bs!
Great! Keep at it! handshake )Science departments aren't so different from the "departments" of Sheikhs.
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Not exactly, Reel. I have translated a substantial part of a certain main chapter. The whole understanding of Arabic needs to be reassessed, not only some mere words.
The real face of Quran speaks of something in very high contrast to the sectarian interpretation, and it does approve of association with allah and that it seems not to is due to linguistic misconception.
While people say my work is farfetched I see it farfetched to believe in whatever the secterian interpreation says due to how crappily the language is presented and how weak the language is. It took me only a few months when I finally got around to see for myself what the hell was wrong with it. The reason people are stuck with it is because they accept it the way it is and accept its dogmatic level.