Salat = Education-Process
-
Salam,
I thought I would share this post to explain why I have shifted the translation of Salat to "Education-Process" whereas previously it was "contact-prayer".
The problem with Salat was to find a "unified meaning" that fits all occurrences of the word and its verbs - a task which has been elusive over the years. Contact-prayer as a translation worked in some verses, and failed in others (like when God Yussali on the prophet, or the birds do "salat" 2441).
The reason I have settled on Education-Process is because the Salat as I read from the Quran is a way of learning information that can then be acted on. For example
2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and carry out the Salat, for the Salat prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.
Here we read that the Salat prohibits immorality and vice, yet, we all know people who pray that cheat, lie, and steal - obviously the prayer aspect did not help. However, when we think of Salat as "knowing the law" then we can see that this knowledge "education-process" will stop people from immorality and vice - an attribute that God gives himself directly
1690 God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.
Also, "education" was the only word whose verb could use in all related verses (God educates the prophet, the prophet educates the believers, the birds know their education, Shuayb is instructed by his education, etc.).
We are to carry out the Salat to "learn the law" - a process that then helps us avoid sin and transgression, makes us stronger believers, and better human beings.
I hope the above clarification helps.
An English translation of the Quran - 546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Gospel, in it is a guidance and a light, and authenticating what was present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and a lesson for the righteous.
An English translation of the Quran - 566 And if they had upheld the Torah and the Gospel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.
An English translation of the Quran - 568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
An English translation of the Gospel - Matthew 65 ?And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 ?This, then, is how you should pray
??Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.?An English translation of the Quran - 3184 If they deny you, then messengers before you were also denied; they came with the proofs and the scriptures and the Book of Enlightenment.
An English translation of the Quran - 6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
-
Salam,
Thank you Layth for updating the text and sharing your reasoning for doing so.
Would you happen to have any idea when the print versions will reflect the current translation?
I am nearly 99% done with the updates on the electronic version. I think in 1-2 weeks if there are no major issues that have been overlooked, it can goto print (which takes another 1-2 weeks).
Thank you for your continuous effort here to help us understand more the world oh God;
My questions are-
do you think that the education/knowledge will let people stop from wrong doing on earth, to consider it/them as the significance of the SALAT matter.
-
How then we should comprehend SALAT ALFAJR, or SALAT AL ICHAA.
Yes, it will stop those who apply the education-process themselves from wrong doing (the Musaleen/Educated), and in-turn, it is the responsibility of those who have learned to spread justice and equity to those around them as well as their families (20132, 2241).
Salat AlFajr and Isha are the learning-process where the Quran is recited and listened to, its words contemplated and understood.
I think Education-Process includes prayer among other things, because during prayer you recite Quran and carry out the education (for example; God educates us to kneel and prostrate (prayer) and to reverence Him (things we can say in prayer), and to seek His help (through prayer), so in a sense you have done the Education-Process (or part of it) when you prayed.
Prayer can be done anytime/anywhere with no form or sequence (like the people who prayed out of fear from the storm 3132). Salat is a very rigid and specific vehicle with rules, times, process, voice tone, etc.. Truly an "Education" Process.
-
-
-
Salam,
I just wanted to add a small footnote to this topic which might help in providing some context to the functionality of Salat (education-process).
In the days before the industrial revolution, a village/town at most would have 5-6 written copies of the Quran and probably 10 or so people who had the Book memorized. Most people therefore don't have access to the words/laws in their homes and when they woke up, before heading off to the farms or market, they would attend an open recitation of the Quran where it's laws could be heard and contemplated. They would then go about their business, thinking of what they had heard that morning, and, around noon there is an opportunity to attend the Salat again, and also in evening before they turned in, they could attend the Salat one last time to listen to some more words/laws that they could think about when they went home and before they slept.
This is how the laws and stories were transmitted and learned by the generations.
-
Salam,
I just wanted to add a small footnote to this topic which might help in providing some context to the functionality of Salat (education-process).
In the days before the industrial revolution, a village/town at most would have 5-6 written copies of the Quran and probably 10 or so people who had the Book memorized. Most people therefore don't have access to the words/laws in their homes and when they woke up, before heading off to the farms or market, they would attend an open recitation of the Quran where it's laws could be heard and contemplated. They would then go about their business, thinking of what they had heard that morning, and, around noon there is an opportunity to attend the Salat again, and also in evening before they turned in, they could attend the Salat one last time to listen to some more words/laws that they could think about when they went home and before they slept.
This is how the laws and stories were transmitted and learned by the generations.
Salaam Layth,
It's not that I completely disagree with you, I mean after all those who know understand that salat involves recitation of Quran or listening to the recitation of Quran, the which is akin to a lecture. Although we can observe that salat is a time that Allah teaches us, explains to us His Words, can YOU truly translate salat as education process for all its occurrences in your translation?
Does the root sad lam waw denote education?
I think that's the real question you need to address before making any annotations that may affect the understanding of potential amateur readers.The component of education, learning is not the only component of salat, Salat is an important channel for spiritual and emotional connection among other things.
I strongly believe that if you simply translate it as education process you are neglecting and undermining the many other purposes it serves
Again, you should not deviate from the root meaning either.
HOWEVER, you could make a case that education's definition entails an enlightening experience of sorts which may well encompass the other purposes, meanings of salat, but the connotation of the word education would not immediately allow the average reader to infer that.
Peace
-
Salaam all,
The component of education, learning is not the only component of salat, Salat is an important channel for spiritual and emotional connection among other things.
I strongly believe that if you simply translate it as education process you are neglecting and undermining the many other purposes it serves
Again, you should not deviate from the root meaning either.
I completely agree with HP_TECH about this. bravo
In my understanding, education-process is a completely incorrect meaning of salat because it does not encompass all the aspects of salat such as praise and glorification of ALLAH, when salat is established by a human for ALLAH. Education-process indicates a one way process whereas salat is a dynamic two way process involving close connection and two way intimate communication with ALLAH (1187), such as praise and glorification with humility, and prayer, in addition to the recitation/oration and education.
17110 Say "Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names." And do not be too loud in your salat, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say "Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness." And magnify Him greatly.Salat is used in opposition to "following desires", therefore one component would also be "not following desires"
1959 Then, generations came after them who lost the salat, and followed desires. They will find their consequences.
COMMUNION or CLOSE CONNECTION would be a much better translation, but this has been ignored for years despite repeated discussions. brickwall
peace Layth,
What happened to "communion"?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608921.msg396386#msg396386
COMMUNION the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level.
https//en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/communion
Education-process also does not make any sense for salat of birds (2441).
Salaam
-
Salam,
I hear what you are both saying, however, I am not able to find a better "word that fits all".
Only Al-Salat (proper noun) has been translated as "Education-Process", while its derivatives (Salat, Salawat, Yusali, Salai, etc.) have all been translated to "educate/education/educating". You can see the verses and how they now flow in the online translation.
Communion/Link/Prayer/etc. all work in some verses, but fail in others - forcing an illogical change of the word to suit the verse (lok at any existing translation for evidence of such difficulty).
The birds "know their education" (the word is salat), while Shuaib is accused of "being ordered by his education" (salatak), and God "educates" the Prophet (yusali), while the Prophet "educates" the believers and they "educate" him (yusaloon).
In no verse does anyone "Yusali" upon God (so the flow moves in one direction only).
-
Peace Layth.
Would leaving the words- Salat,salawat,yussalli...etc in english in the verses and put the meaning in brackets next to them be a better alternative?
Then the reader can see what the original Arabic word is .It can also highlight the issues this has with different translations.
You can also ignore and leave it as it is. It is your decision and your work.
Thanks brother.
Peace. -
Peace Layth,
I humbly ask you to consider this two point proposal/deal.
-
Good logic took the words out of my mouth. Have you considered leaving all the words in which you discern difficulty translating in Arabic? Perhaps it can be done in the future and with more words than just salat, like Daraba in 434 and so forth. It would highly encourage the reader to truly study.
-
Please bring forth all the occurrences in Quran in which you perceive that prayer or an extension of the root meaning does not fit as a translation. The reason I say this is because I earnestly see no problem with the way it is now and if I do not I am sure there are many more who feel the same. I think it would be only fair that you bring up the verses in question forward for analysis and discussion. After all, I noticed how you always acknowledge all the members of this forum as contributors, then let us contribute in the most honest way by consulting with us and discussing at least primarily if there even truly is an issue at all.
Below I simply cite Ayaahs to demonstrate how one of the examples you have claimed is illogical is in fact, the opposite very logical and matches the oft-repeating parts. 3923 1587
I disagree that salat in the conventional understanding raises an issue in the example of the birds.
The birds truly know their prayer. They have their own communications and language we just do not understand them. Even the Hoopoe glorified Allah!This is explained very clearly in Al-Quran.
All creatures are in communities like us638 And not any animal in the earth and not a bird (that) flies with its wings - but (are) communities like you. We have not neglected in the Book anything, then to their Lord they will be gathered.
1744 Glorify Him the seven heavens and the earth and whatever (is) in them. And (there is) not any thing except glorifies His Praise, but not you understand their glorification. Indeed, He is Ever-Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving."
2179 And We gave understanding of it (to) Sulaiman, and (to) each We gave judgment and knowledge. And We subjected with Dawud the mountains (to) glorify Our praises and the birds. And We were the Doers.
2218 Do not you see that Allah - prostrates to Him whoever (is) in the heavens and whoever (is) in the earth, and the sun and the moon and the stars and the mountains, and the trees and the moving creatures and many of the people? But many - (is) justly due on him the punishment. And whoever Allah humiliates then not for him any bestower of honor. Indeed, Allah does what He wills
-the first word in teal is yasjudu while the second is dawabu. Clearly birds which are included among the moving creatures prostrate/submit to Allah-verse in question 2441 Do not you see that Allah - glorify Him whoever (is) in the heavens and the earth and the birds (with) wings outspread? Each one verily knows its prayer and its glorification. And Allah (is) All-Knower of what they do.
-It is obvious to me that the birds' soaring (and perhaps gliding as well) which is relying upon rising air to increase altitude is perhaps one of their way of glorification. They humbly submit/prostrate and rely on the air/wind truthfully ALLAH to hold them up, they are not flapping and exerting force they are peacefully submitting to the Will of the Most Gracious. In fact6719 Do not they see the birds above them spreading (their wings) and folding? Not holds them except the Most Gracious. Indeed, He (is) of every thing All-Seer.
-Hoopoe speaking 2725-26 That not they prostrate to Allah, the One Who brings forth the hidden in the heavens and the earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare, Allah (there is) no god but He, (the) Lord (of) the Throne the Great."
-Ayah 26 is an obvious glorification/praise/exalting3410 And certainly, We gave Dawood from Us Bounty. "O mountains! Repeat praises with him, and the birds." And We made pliable for him iron,
3819 And the birds assembled, all with him repeatedly turning.
-perhaps Dawood sang praises as the birds also turned with him by chirping as they do every day morning and evening (Btw Do you hear the birds loud chirping right before sunrise and before sunset?)Brother, know that as per 1744, 2218 and 2441 EVERYTHING glorifies, magnifies, exalts, prostrates to The Most Gracious.
The above verses are abundantly sufficient evidence to negate the claim that salat in its conventional meaning does not fit.
Since it is clear you were mistaken about this example brother, how many more could you have mistakenly altered?
Finally, I just have one last remaining question, what is your exact definition of education, in the unifying meaning you want to impose in your translation?
Why are you seeking for a unifying term or definition. In my education, I do not recall language being so rigid. The same word may have slightly different meaning depending upon context and that is okay, language is fluid. I do not see the problem with salat meaning prayer in one verse and blessings in the next as long as these meaning are true to the root definitions and context.I urge you to please consider at least discussing each occurrence you deem troublesome and that is for your benefit, because the burden and responsibility of presenting Allah's Words and preserving the original meaning as it was delivered falls upon you, since you took upon yourself to translate it. So do not take it lightly and rush glibly into making changes but lend your ear into consultation with the righteous among your peers.
4238 And those who respond to their Lord and establish prayer and their affairs (are conducted by) consultation among them, and from what We have provided them they spend,
-
-
Salam,
Would leaving the words- Salat,salawat,yussalli...etc in english in the verses and put the meaning in brackets next to them be a better alternative?
Then the reader can see what the original Arabic word is .It can also highlight the issues this has with different translations.
The option of leaving the word "as is" was considered, but it was abandoned because it defeats the purpose of a "translation". The only words that have been left untranslated are proper names.
-
Dear HP,
I welcome your comments and do read all opinions so as not to miss any information that may help us all.
The subject of Salat to my mind is not a linguistic one where we are trying to bring it in-line with a "root word" that may or may not even be its source, but is a bigger issue of "purpose" which is lost in many of these discussions. Let me clarify
- Al-Salat has certain properties that, when done properly, will prohibit a person from immorality and vice (2945)
- God gives Himself the same attribute as Al-Salat (prohibiting immorality and vice 1690)
- Salat can be "lost" (1959)
- Salat needs focus and a sharp mind (443)
- Salat gives instructions/information (1187)
- Salat is done in an audible voice
- Salat is done at certain fixed times, and in a congregation when possible
Just looking at the points above, you can easily discount a large number of words that people may believe are Salat ("prayer" as a meaning being the first one off the list).
Now, other words that do work are "Communion/Connection/Education/Learning/Lawgiving"
The second part of the picture is the many derivatives of Salat (Yusalai, Sala, Saloo, Salatak, Salatahum, etc.).
Here the words start tightening-up as some of the meanings which worked in the first part are no longer possible
- "Connection/Communion" fail in 984 when someone has died.
- "Communion" fails in 3356 when God and His angels "Yusaloon" upon the Prophet and the believers.
In summary, we are looking at a "process" through which laws are communicated/derived/learned. This is why I have suggested "Education-Process" and its derivatives "educate/education". However, I would also say that "Lawgiving/Law" and its derivatives could work.
-
227 The ones who break their pledge to God after making the covenant, and they sever what God had ordered to be joined("the verb of salat". Moreover, they make corruption on earth; these are the losers.
This verse puts two verbs in contrast with each other, one of them is the "salat" I believe. The verb is "to cut" (literally) or "disrupt" that is put in contrast with the verb of "salat".
-
This verse puts two verbs in contrast with each other, one of them is the "salat" I believe. The verb is "to cut" (literally) or "disrupt" that is put in contrast with the verb of "salat".
Peace Cerberus,
In response to 227 it is a different root altogether, it is waw sad lam. While salat/salah is sad lam waw.
May ask what tool did you use for checking that word in Arabic?
-
Peace Cerberus,
In response to 227 it is a different root altogether, it is waw sad lam. While salat/salah is sad lam waw.
May ask what tool did you use for checking that word in Arabic?
As, matter of fact, my dear brother, these two roots are connected, and if we, with Allah's Help understand "salat" and its root and other words from it, we'll know, with His 'izn, that salat is nothing what was said in this post and in most of the books written by the people.
Salat is "staying close or joined" and this is the similarity of its root and the root waw sad lam. Meaning of salat includes help, advice and all other actions one who's near to somebody or a group can do. Understanding salat leads to understanding 'emr with His Help, and understanding all other deen topics. Understanding about the meaning of salat leads to Muslim unity, as Allah swt ordered to us. When Muslims left salat Allah swt took the knowledge about it from them and left them alone, where's normal to kill each other. If we read Allah's Kitab we can learn more about this.
We should only read ayats and read about only ayats without shirk, and pray to Him for His Help and forgiveness for what we've done of sins, no matter if we know for them or not. He's ghafur-ur-raheem.
Allah's bless and selam.
-
As, matter of fact, my dear brother, these two roots are connected, and if we, with Allah's Help understand "salat" and its root and other words from it, we'll know, with His 'izn, that salat is nothing what was said in this post and in most of the books written by the people.
Salat is "staying close or joined" and this is the similarity of its root and the root waw sad lam. Meaning of salat includes help, advice and all other actions one who's near to somebody or a group can do. Understanding salat leads to understanding 'emr with His Help, and understanding all other deen topics. Understanding about the meaning of salat leads to Muslim unity, as Allah swt ordered to us. When Muslims left salat Allah swt took the knowledge about it from them and left them alone, where's normal to kill each other. If we read Allah's Kitab we can learn more about this.
We should only read ayats and read about only ayats without shirk, and pray to Him for His Help and forgiveness for what we've done of sins, no matter if we know for them or not. He's ghafur-ur-raheem.
Allah's bless and selam.
Peace dear brother,
I hear your argument and I mostly agree I believe. Do you agree that salat also includes recitation of Quran and glorification?
I want to implement your advice. May you please clarify exactly what you meant in the green?
And unto you Allah's bless and salam
-
I had to modify my answer, for a clear answers about the questions you asked
Yes, salat as in order "stand for salat" includes reading the Qur'an and tesbih.
I wrongly wrote "read" twice, but I meant "read" ... "think". What I meant is we should read only ayats and think about them only, without shirk (adding anything else, as "science" for example).
Allah's bless and selam.
P. S. Sorry, was in a hurry and haven't read your post good.
-
Dear HP,
I welcome your comments and do read all opinions so as not to miss any information that may help us all.
The subject of Salat to my mind is not a linguistic one where we are trying to bring it in-line with a "root word" that may or may not even be its source, but is a bigger issue of "purpose" which is lost in many of these discussions. Let me clarify
- Al-Salat has certain properties that, when done properly, will prohibit a person from immorality and vice (2945)
- God gives Himself the same attribute as Al-Salat (prohibiting immorality and vice 1690)
- Salat can be "lost" (1959)
- Salat needs focus and a sharp mind (443)
- Salat gives instructions/information (1187)
- Salat is done in an audible voice
- Salat is done at certain fixed times, and in a congregation when possible
Just looking at the points above, you can easily discount a large number of words that people may believe are Salat ("prayer" as a meaning being the first one off the list).
Now, other words that do work are "Communion/Connection/Education/Learning/Lawgiving"
The second part of the picture is the many derivatives of Salat (Yusalai, Sala, Saloo, Salatak, Salatahum, etc.).
Here the words start tightening-up as some of the meanings which worked in the first part are no longer possible
- "Connection/Communion" fail in 984 when someone has died.
- "Communion" fails in 3356 when God and His angels "Yusaloon" upon the Prophet and the believers.
In summary, we are looking at a "process" through which laws are communicated/derived/learned. This is why I have suggested "Education-Process" and its derivatives "educate/education". However, I would also say that "Lawgiving/Law" and its derivatives could work.
Peace Layth,
I am not saying that Salat has one meaning and that, that is only prayer. I am saying that the root definitions has a range of meanings which well encompass the most accurate and reasonable propositions in this thread.
Lath just so we are on the same page, do you know all the different meanings the root sad lam waw denotes in Classical Arabic?
This is a legitimate studious question. If you know it then, you should know that salat in its Arabic root signifies prayer, supplication, oration(lecture and by extension perhaps education), eulogy, commendation, blessings ( as invoking God's blessing upon a person like we do regularly in this forum!), magnification, honoring, following closely and etcetera.
Most lexicons are clear about explaining that salat as in prayer is the primary but not sole signification!
Allah's Blessings and Salam upon the believers!
