What is the Purpose of Life?
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Peace hansolo.
What you say here,quote
But, means that prior to this human/earthly life we were another life form living somewhere else ?
This is probably true ,but it does not mean reincarnation. It just means the same soul living as two different types of life.GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace hansolo.
What you say here,quote
But, means that prior to this human/earthly life we were another life form living somewhere else ?
This is probably true ,but it does not mean reincarnation. It just means the same soul living as two different types of life.GOD bless you.
PeacePeace Good Logic. So by this Logic we Get only one earthly life? If anyone trusts the Bible. In Bible Jesus is asked why was this man born blind, because he sinned? (As I understand implying that He was a sinner in prior life). However, Jesus answered No!
JOHN 91-3
1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, ?Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind??
3 ?Neither this man nor his parents sinned,? said Jesus, ?but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him
So yeah as we can see, reincarnation is probably not true.
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Peace hansolo.
What you say here,quote
But, means that prior to this human/earthly life we were another life form living somewhere else ?
This is probably true ,but it does not mean reincarnation. It just means the same soul living as two different types of life.GOD bless you.
PeaceYou must be allergic to the word reincarnation. Why not use the word for that?
Same soul living two different types of life is reincarnation.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace Good Logic. So by this Logic we Get only one earthly life? If anyone trusts the Bible. In Bible Jesus is asked why was this man born blind, because he sinned? (As I understand implying that He was a sinner in prior life). However, Jesus answered No!
JOHN 91-3
1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, ?Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind??
3 ?Neither this man nor his parents sinned,? said Jesus, ?but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him
So yeah as we can see, reincarnation is probably not true.
You draw that conclusion from Jesus words. What if Jesus refers to his previous body?
Personally I think the translation is weak. John is also one of the less reliable in my opinion.
And, in case you have missed it, Jesus does respond "your sins are forgiven" to a lot of people when healing their ails and as far as I can recall it has been those born disabled. You do not tell a person who has not been sinning before being born in this lifetime that your sins are forgiven unless he actually had done something wrong in his past.
And there are a multitude of people in this world born disabled in various ways and then would you say God is giving all of them a fair chance of salvation if they are handicapped?
No, obviously it is inconsistent with applied logic. The true answer is that everyone reaps with this body what they sowed before. And the one who sows anew and does it well is reaping it elsewhere.
Be well
Amenuel -
You draw that conclusion from Jesus words. What if Jesus refers to his previous body?
Personally I think the translation is weak. John is also one of the less reliable in my opinion.
And, in case you have missed it, Jesus does respond "your sins are forgiven" to a lot of people when healing their ails and as far as I can recall it has been those born disabled. You do not tell a person who has not been sinning before being born in this lifetime that your sins are forgiven unless he actually had done something wrong in his past.
And there are a multitude of people in this world born disabled in various ways and then would you say God is giving all of them a fair chance of salvation if they are handicapped?
No, obviously it is inconsistent with applied logic. The true answer is that everyone reaps with this body what they sowed before. And the one who sows anew and does it well is reaping it elsewhere.
Be well
AmenuelSo people who are born with disabilities were big sinners in their prior life? Thus they are paying for their sins in their next life? Ok, But what about the People who are born with Down syndrome? Are they disabled? Sure! However they are known to be extremely kind and peaceful. Wouldn't it be a blessing than rather than a cure? If the whole point of this human life is to die as clean and pure as possible?
Peace
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Peace hansolo.
MOF s logic has a bit of "arrogance" in it. GOD gave him his faculties and brain and now he is using it unfairly against others.
Is he saying he was "sinless" before?
What about animals? Does he know what kind of bad sin they committed to deserve this life?
In fact he has not got a clue about how GOD assigns the souls and how GOD chooses why and what He creates.
MOF is having wild guesses and he knows it.
As for his kind of reincarnation,does he really think one soul has multiple goes at this life in different bodies?
Does he read the Qoran he claims to believe in? Each soul has only one single go in this life!! No more.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
our reality ... we exist at this time/place... proven fact
our future ... one day everybody leave this place/time by termination ... proven fact
our past... (consider dreamz, day javu, fear from certain things) not to be proven yet what is the reality of these things ,but dreams still come we still sleep its just a start to understanding human mind...by defination if u guys claim reincration from time to time with same self... thats problemetic actually.. we can go back to max 14 billion years thens it blank again.. that clear one thing... God alone knows the secrets of heavens and earth... our creation purpose and everything...
How can you disbelieve in God when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?
first part of the verse the self was dead(offline) before God make it (alive)online
from stages in the womb of mother to the creation of spirit and evolution of body... anything...second part ... he gave us life(connecting two things self and body) what we call life... theoratically...
this stage is with us right now all the members ... of forum and outside...third part.. then the system of our life will accomplish the purpose for a predetermined time set for every life by God planning...its better to do that way .. nobody really knows when machinery will offline otherwise the interest of life was long finished... God knows y he plan like that but i know thats a perfect -plan... no body knows or gurantee how long somebody live...
this time he take life back from us... disconnecting self from body....called death theoratically....fourth part ..then God connect us again for the results of project/task/test/purpose... he wil give us life again....
fifth and final part... God was the master source and he will be the master source forever without the law of time and space...
to him we will return... a start of new exploring to the lord of heavens and earth...our project is quite huge more than we can imagine and we are just in starting position for that task and i think most of them will get disqualified before the first step of project...
the verse indicates three different dimenshns of life with different purposes its not iincranation its a planning of most high...
sometimes incranation idea we make it by our own wishful thinking most of the times when we really wanted second chance and we get distract again .. life is not about making bank balance, cars , money , women, luxuries... the question for every person eithr poor rich disable ,celebrity is same what did you do with what i provided you....
for poor did you steal the money ? yes wrong choice, no good choice u passed ur exam...
for rich did you spend the money in my cause? yes good choice , you play a character of good care taker of the money what actually belongs to God.... no wrong choice u failed the test -
How would you explain this all encompassing term?
Ya'budu 'ubud] as all encompassing in reference to Allah is not an easy term to explain.
The moment one jump onto the one set of meaning, then one is limiting the meaning of 'ya'budu' to that particular set of meaning.
Leaving the meanings open-ended and interdependent is critical.
Therefore "what is ya'budu" must be approached from many perspectives from the widest to the narrowest.The widest meaning we can attribute to 'ya'budu' is this;
To ya'budud Allah alone meant to comply and practice 100% with the total 6,236 verses within the Quran only and nothing else with the right state of mind.
When a Muslim ya'budu comply with 100% of the Quran-only, what else more is there to comply.In compliance with 100% with the Quran we need to consider two important concepts;
- The ideal standards of the Quran, say 100%
- The provision for a Muslim to do the best of his/her ability.
Ya'budu is all encompassing in that it overrides submit believe, trust, serve, salaf , praise, glorify, fear, remembrance and every deeds necessary to improve oneself to the best of one's ability till the final destination of the journey.
What is ya'budu from the Quran perspective is the ideal 100% but in reality and practice, with provision from Allah, a Muslim will progress in stages and phases to the highest capacity of ya'budu within the best of his/her abilities.
What is also critical is ya'budu entails a covenant with Allah, either explicitly or implicitly. e.g. like a 'marriage contract' but obviously the 'contractual' bonding with Allah is transcendental and unique.
Other perspectives and questions are 'how to enter into the right state of mind to ya'budu' etc. Notable are terms like fa-ir'habni; RHB raghaban, warahaban
So far I have only discussed from a few perspectives out of the necessary 100++ to understand its all encompassing meaning. The other perspective need to be explored with an open-ended sense of inquiry.
My Question;
Whilst I have not provided the complete picture, given the above lead and clues it is agreeable that 'ya'budu' should be the central theme of Islam? -
Peace All.
There is a more important question to ask before we can ask "what is the purpose of life"?.
The question is Did we exist before this life?
Then we follow by "Why have we been created as humans? This hopefully will give us the purpose?So according to Qoran, it says this
228
How can you disbelieve in God when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?The key word here is " Amwattan" This means we were dead before GOD created us as humans. It is very important to watch the words GOD uses in Qoran. GOD does not err or make mistakes with the choice of His words!!!
Hence we were "Amwatan" can only mean we were alive before that otherwise GOD would have said "You were nothing".
It is not possible to be "Amwatan" if we were not alive before that?
This verse gives two life cycles.
Of course the next questions will be
Why did we become "Amwatan"? What did we exist as? Why were we created as humans?,,,etc.
GOD bless.
Peace.Many translators translate "Amwatan" as "lifeless" while the "yu'ykum" is 'die' or 'dead'.
Adam was created from clay which is lifeless initially and then God breathed God's spirit into Adam to make him alive.
The same model process and logic can be applied to all humans where at some point in the beginning, the zygote was lifeless and then immediately imbue with 'spirit'.
So there was no dead human before the zygote, only a lifeless zygote made alive. -
Peace Nonetheless.
Remember me saying GOD chooses His words carefully and exactly.
I disagree with you, "Amwatan" cannot mean any other material. God is talking about the " Person" i.e the "soul"In another verse ,,Which confirms what I said about GOD choosing His words, GOD is talking about the first creation of us before we were humans
"Awalam Yara Al-Insanu anna khalaknahu "MIN KABLU" wa lam yakun CHAYAN"Does the human not realise that we created him" before" when he was "nothing".
Key words here are "MIN KABLU" and "Lam yakun CHAYAN".
Unless one comes up with a contradiction of the verses, GOD is reminding us here about our first creation.Hence confirmation of two lives plus one more to come after the resurrection.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Nonetheless.
Here are the verses numbers to ponder1966
The human being asks, "After I die, do I come back to life?"1967
Did the human being forget( does he not remember) that we created him before, and he was nothing?The ""Yadhkuru" , I translated as "see" in my post before, it should have been "Remember".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Nonetheless.
Here are the verses numbers to ponder1966
The human being asks, "After I die, do I come back to life?"1967
Did the human being forget( does he not remember) that we created him before, and he was nothing?The ""Yadhkuru" , I translated as "see" in my post before, it should have been "Remember".
GOD bless you.
Peace.I believe you are reading to much into the two verses.
What I read in context is, the statement is addressed to individual human , i.e.
Don't you remember what is told in the Quran, you were created before this present time that you were created out of nothing. .
If Allah wanted to introduce the concept of 'reincarnation' into Islam, Allah would have made it a central issue. The overall context of the Quran do not support reincarnation.
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Peace Nonetheless.
Where did I mention reincarnation?Are you saying your next life is reincarnation?
Nothing to do with the reincarnation of a soul as different bodies in the same life!!!!!
This is about a soul living a first life that led to it being a human living this life that will lead him to the destination and new creation of the next life . The same soul
Or are you saying GOD s words are not carefully chosen in the verses I quoted?
One is saying we were "Amyatan" then created in this life. The other is saying we were "nothing-Lam Yakun Shayan-"before that and we were created a first time.
Does "Amwatan" and "Lam Yakun Shayan- nothing-" mean the same thing?
Now tells us your understanding of those verses if you disagree?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace hansolo.
MOF s logic has a bit of "arrogance" in it. GOD gave him his faculties and brain and now he is using it unfairly against others.
Is he saying he was "sinless" before?
What about animals? Does he know what kind of bad sin they committed to deserve this life?
In fact he has not got a clue about how GOD assigns the souls and how GOD chooses why and what He creates.
MOF is having wild guesses and he knows it.
As for his kind of reincarnation,does he really think one soul has multiple goes at this life in different bodies?
Does he read the Qoran he claims to believe in? Each soul has only one single go in this life!! No more.
GOD bless you.
PeaceDo you call me arrogant? In that case you call me arrogant merely for knowing things.
Have I said I was sinless before? I am trying to become sinless now, but that is a long path which not many people try to take because they do not understand its necessity.
Animals are spiritually lifeless beings and only exist as an environmental feature. Some call them to be of the world soul and that is a good description.
You say I have wild guesses and while you claim it you have wild guesses yourself, and you make false claims that I know something which is not true. There are no wild guesses in what I am writing.
I do have a clue how God assigns the souls, but I do not have insight into the running process and only know the system itself. A person is born and grows or diminishes their soul depending on their performance and this determines their rebirth condition. This is similar to the sectarian doctrine except they only give people only one chance and then they are immediately reborn in Hell or Heaven. Hell does however not exist as a punishment but this is a test environment and is this very location. You cannot go to where you already are. The matter is how many days you will be required to be here, if you even ever get out. With the attitude and disinformation in your possession it may be incredibly difficult.
It is the sectarian interpretation of Quran which says one has only one go in this life. I read Quran, but I read it with my own eyes.
And I also say one has one go at this life, you are not reborn in this life. When your body dies it will not return.
Anyways be well and hope you will ever see the world for what it is,
Amenuel -
And your kind of doctrine is so primitive it does not require much reflection to realize it does not hold water. I wrote here that if people are born into this world with all sorts of horrible mutations and in awkward conditions, situations and locations, then it is absolutely not fair if you say people only have one chance and some are born with greatly disadvantageous handicaps and are expected to be running their test of their lives. Many people have innate mental diseases virtually making normal functionality impossible.
Now is however their condition a consequence of past living, but if it was not then it would simply not make sense.
Include every living human in your equation and you shall see it cannot work. The parameters reason and logic will not permit you to make the equation.
It is you and clergymen including those who had their hands on Quran since it compilation who have shaped your fallible doctrine which you hold on to without reflecting on the whole picture.
Be well
Amenuel -
It is for that reason clever atheists will not believe in your god too. You cannot come with an intelligent explanation that people will accept.
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And I also say one has one go at this life, you are not reborn in this life. When your body dies it will not return.
Amenuel
Man of Faith, so You mean after we die, we as an individual perish, if one does not graduate so to speak? So even if we Do come back here, its not us anymore right? So yeah with this logic, indeed we die when we die (If we dont ascend into the next level). So one only keeps himself/herself if He/She graduates from this place? If so, The word "save yourself" gained a whole new meaning for me. I dont want to die.
Peace
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please read my post properly. Quote where I called you arrogant.
If you mean I called your logic arrogant that is because you believe too much in your warped logic. .You keep going on about the sectarians,yet you are just as dangerous with your logic as they are with their interpretations.
Yes, so to you your logic and to me the clear Arabic Qoran.As for your clever Atheist,I am not their guardian. I just wonder how clever they are with all GOD s signs around them and inside their bodies?
Of course you will keep on talking and making all these deluded statement without a shred of evidence from Qoran and you claim your logic is superior tp everyone.
So of course I will call this logic arrogant.
However you are entitled to have your logic.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Nonetheless.
Where did I mention reincarnation?Are you saying your next life is reincarnation?
Nothing to do with the reincarnation of a soul as different bodies in the same life!!!!!
This is about a soul living a first life that led to it being a human living this life that will lead him to the destination and new creation of the next life . The same soul
Or are you saying GOD s words are not carefully chosen in the verses I quoted?
One is saying we were "Amyatan" then created in this life. The other is saying we were "nothing-Lam Yakun Shayan-"before that and we were created a first time.
Does "Amwatan" and "Lam Yakun Shayan- nothing-" mean the same thing?
Now tells us your understanding of those verses if you disagree?
GOD bless you.
Peace.From Wiki
Reincarnation is the philosophical or religious concept that an aspect of a living being starts a new life in a different physical body or form after each biological death. It is also called rebirth or transmigration, and is a part of the Sasra doctrine of cyclic existence.Reincarnation usually refer to many life cycles.
In your case you stated the same "soul" live in another life then died is reborn into a human being.
This is similar to reincarnation or rebirth albeit involving one cycle but how can you confirmed in your case there are no previous lives for that same soul?•
Pickthall's
327. Who made all things good which He created, and He began the creation of man from clay;
328. Then He made his seed from a draught of despised fluid ;
329. Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His spirit ; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye!•
According to the Quran, there is no mentioned of previous life and death of soul.
From 327-9 Allah breathed his spirit into lifeless thing to create a live human being.Or are you saying GOD's words are not carefully chosen in the verses I quoted?
Note "amwatan" from Miim-Waw-Ta has a range of meanings;• To die, to pass away from the earthly life, to be destitute or deprived of life, deprived of sensation, deprived of the intellectual faculty, to be still/quiet/motionless, to be calm/still, to sleep, lifeless, to be assuaged, dried up by the earth, to cease, wear out/be worn out, to be poor/reduced to poverty, abject/base/despicable/vile, disobedient or rebellious, lowly/humble/submissive, to be soft/loose/flabby/relaxed, lack spirit or life.
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In the context of 228 the most appropriate translation is 'lifeless'.
Thus God's words and its related intended meaning was carefully chosen.Does "Amwatan" and "Lam Yakun Shayan- nothing-" mean the same thing?
In the context of 228 they do not mean the same thing.
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Peace Nonetheless.
1-You have just demonstrated in your post that there is reincarnation according to Qoran if you say ,quote
Reincarnation usually refer to many life cyclesBecause according to Qoran we are going to have another life cycle?
2-If GOD puts someone to death this must mean they were alive before? So how do you explain this
4011
They will say, "Our Lord, you have put us to death twice,* and You gave us two lives; now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out?"According to you they only died once., contradicting 4011.
According to the verse there must have had a life before this one for them to be "Amwatan" =put to death= the first time?And of course there is " Wa Lakad Alimtumu AL-NASHATA Aloula Afala Tadhakkaroun?" GOD is reminding here that we had a first life before this one ,hence adding "Don t you remember"?
There fore what you say here (in your previous post) is not true,quote
According to the Quran, there is no mentioned of previous life and death of soul.There is a mention of a previous death of a soul,hence there must have been a previous life.
GOD bless you.
Peace