Would You cut someones hand if they stole?
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Salaam, Hansolo
Tsi question has been dealt with abundantly in the forum and it might be easier to fish for the threds where it is handled. It is abundantly clear that the aya in question does what the Qur'an does all the time, to use the word "hand" or "hands", idiomatically as is usual in any language I know of, where chands are used in the sense of ability, or power, or capacity, and not as parts of the body.
I leave it IN YOUR HANDS to fish for those threads where this question has been delat with to exhaustion.
Of course you may always choose to cut your hands.
Salaam
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Yes sister huruf, may be one can find "how you cut someone's hand if they keep writing /asking questions that have been dealt with numerous times here" in Qoran as well!!!
Brother hansolo,ask those who carry out this punishment,why ask us? It just proves you are not reading our posts!!!However do not worry ,ask whatever you want,we will not cut anyone's hand or punish them here,we are "Muslims" to GOD and we leave GOD as the judge of His creations.
Just for your information those who cut the hands are following their parents and scholars tradition,nothing to do with Qoran.
From Qoran s point of view some believe "mark the hand" as a symbol of publicising who the thief is or "cut some of their resources to compensate what they took"
For example."Kassabat Aydeekum" means What you earn. some translate "Iktauu aydeyahum" as cut what they earned from stealing"In short there is no cutting/severing of hands in Qoran!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
So when God says cut their hands, somehow it is a symbolic meaning.
Did God send Quran to confuse people? Most probably not, because He says, This is Quran written in clear Arabic.
It is humans who start all this linguistic acrobatics.
If a verse fits with their point of view they take wording word, literal.
However, when a verse or even a word comes up which contradicts their point f view, they start interpreting , doing whatever they want with it just to make it sound like something else.
I know sports are good for the body, however, our linguistics acrobatics with the Clear Quran is a bit disappointing to say the least.
Peace
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At the end "gymnastics " like you put it are performed.
Now you choose which tickles your fancy or make up one of your own.
However I disagree with you. When you study Qoran and you really trying your best to understand it ,its context will be clear to you. Patience,sincerity and trusting GOD are required.
Your choice brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
So when God says cut their hands, somehow it is a symbolic meaning.
God did not say that.
Hansolo says that God said it and then Hansolo says that God probably means it symbolic.You should register on a sunni forum, there you can have the conversations you are looking for.
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i think he preffered the traditional translations despite of knowing there are some better interpretation also i wonder he did not give their reference in 5 38 ..
anyways..here is gift for him if he thinks God is confusing people
1231 So when she heard of their scheming, she sent for them and prepared a banquet for them, and she gave each one of them a knife. And she said "Come out to them," so when they saw him they exalted him and cut their hands, and they said "Praise be to God, this is not a human being, but a blessed angel!
did womens cutt off their hands or it was just a mark of injury? (whats your common sense say in this event)
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peace hansolo,
I know sports are good for the body, however, our linguistics acrobatics with the Clear Quran is a bit disappointing to say the least.
Well, let's put it to the test......... if you are a genuine truth seeker you will welcome such an approach
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The Arabic word translated as "cut" in 538 is "iqtaa" and occurs 14 other times in the same 1st verb form (QaTaA) in The Quran, please tell us how many out of the 14 occurrences it means a clear physical cutting off?
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The derivatives that are read in the 2nd verb form (QaTTaA) occur 17 times in The Quran. The 2nd verb form expresses intensity/frequency of the action. Please tell us how many out of the 17 occurrences it means a clear physical cutting off?
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The more intense 2nd verb form is used alongside hands only twice in Quran - please tell us does it mean cutting off hands in these verses? Yes/No.
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Please explain the plural use of "aydi" (hands) in 538. Note that the Arabic plural means 3 or more hands, thus iqtaa should be done to 3 or more hands.
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When lashes are given as punishment for proven adultery, The Quran states not to let pity/compassion prevent you from carrying out such a punishment , but it says no such thing for the alleged hand cutting-off verse, when many (all?) consider this punishment to be far worse. Please explain why this is.
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The recurring theme of justice in The Quran is equivalence or less, i.e. one cannot go overboard in punishment with respect to the crime. Please explain what happens if someone steals a slice of bread according to Quran.
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Are there any other corroborating verses in Quran which support hand-cutting-off for theft? Yes/No. If yes, cite them.
8 ) the only working example of theft in Quran is in the story of Joseph , please tell us what the punishment for theft is in this story?
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moreover lets say logically a thief get punished first time by get his hands chopped off..
after that if he manage to rob/steal/theft again, then what part of body get chopped off..?
is it not a free license to him , like do it(theft) as much as you can and no punishment can apply to you as you have no hands any more.. hmm
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Brother Imran,
What about the
533 - Free-Minds.org Translation The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution.
Are You ready to do this things to those enemies of God? Al those swine eating, land corrupting, unbelievers ? (SARCASM)
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well, read the verse before and after 5 33 for a clear picture,
your thread is dealing with theft...
if you wan to discuss 5 33 open a new thread and ask again same thing there , i ll get to you with logic .dnt mix two things
(theft and murder)eye for an eye
hand for hand
life for life
but its better if you forgive.. -
Salam,
538
And the male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut their
resources?as a penalty for what they have earned?to be made
an example of from God. God is Noble, Wise.No cutting of limbs for theft. The punishment given in 533 is not for theft.
In pretext of FM Quran, there's a good explanation
As to the thief, Male or female, cut off (Iqta)
his or her hands a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for
their crime and Allah is Exalted in power. (Qur?an 53If we had based our opinion solely on verse 538 as shown above, then
our understanding would be that the hands of thieves are to be severed
completely. If this is indeed what God has commanded, then we have no
option but to hear and obey.However, in this particular case, we find that a small check against the real
life example given in the Qur?an of Joseph and his brothers and how they
dealt with the issue of theft leads us to a completely different conclusion?They said ?By God, you know we have not come to cause corruption
in the land, and we are not thieves!?
They said ?What shall be the
punishment, if you are not truthful?? They said ?The punishment is that
he in whose saddlebag it is found will himself serve as the punishment. It is
so that we punish the wicked.
?? (Qur?an 1273-75)The law of God that Joseph applied against his brother in the matter
of theft did not lead to any amputation of the hand or any other mindless
act of violence. It did, however, lead to the brother being made to remain
behind and work as a penalty against that which he was accused of stealing.
Looking back at verse 538 with the correct translation we see a
completely different understanding from that found by Yusuf Ali?And the male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut their resources?
as a penalty for what they have earned?to be made an example of
from God. God is Noble, Wise.? (Qur?an 53The correct understanding of the verse not only matches the live
example given in the Qur?an, but it also comes in-line with the other
checks and balances that God has given such as the punishment not
exceeding the crime (16126).Salam
PS. I wouldn't cut anyone's hand if they stole
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Why don't you stay on topic and provide proof that the Quran orders hands to be cut off for theft
he dnt have it, otherwise he never missed the reply of my first post...
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hansolo , the picture below best describe the running after theft... >
https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3e/1a/04/3e1a047138e74490a162595525df5ddf.jpg
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538 Wa al sariqu wa al sariqatu fa iqtaAAoo aydiyahuma jazaan bimakasaba nakalan mina Allahi waAllahuAAazeezun hakeemun
Aydiya - plural
huma - third person masculine dualGod mentions both the male and female thief here for a reason. We have 2 people here and we have "aydiyahuma" meaning "each of their (dual) resources (plural)." Even if you want to translate it as "hands" then it would be "cut each of their 3 or more hands" which makes no sense. Therefore it has to mean resources/power. The word choices thougout this verse has a purpose.
538 As for the male thief and the female thief, you shall cut/cut off/disable/put an end to their means/resources/power for either of them as a recompense/reparation/penalty for what they did/for their doing/crime. This is to serve as a deterrent/an example from God. God is powerful/mighty, wise/judicious/authoritative.
539 Whoever turns/repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then God will accept his repentance. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
Does this sound just to you? You get both hands cut off and then you can repent without your hands and it's all good?
1270 When he furnished them with their provisions, he placed the measuring bowl in his brother's bag. Then a caller cried out "O you in the caravan, you are thieves!"
1271 They said, turning towards them "What is it you are missing?"
1272 He said, "We are missing the measuring bowl of the King, and whoever finds it shall receive a camel-load; I guarantee this."
1273 They said, "By God, you know we did not come to cause corruption in the land, and we are no thieves!"
1274 He said, "What shall be the punishment, if you are not truthful?"
1275 They said, "The punishment is that the person who has it in his bag shall himself be held as penalty. It is such that we punish the wrongdoers."
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The verbal sentence has prefixed conjunction particle which shows cause and effect, and initiates an apodosis clause. Thus this sentence is a subordinate clause. Verb is imperative, second person, plural, masculine, of base form made from - verbal noun. This form of verb does not include in its semantic ambit the act of amputation to cut off some appendage/part of the body. This fact is also evident from its direct object a possessive phrase, first noun is plural which signifies three and more objects. Obviously a convicted thief does not have three or more hands which could be imputed.
Allah the Exalted has laid down retributive justice system wherein the punishment is proportionate in response to crime.Its Form-II can have the signification of amputation, and of splitting
refer 7124; 7160 -
So all you Qur'an alone community fans, once again, who will execute lashings and cutting of hands provided that you somehow organize your welfare under the same roof so to speak? I asked the fascist Gerrans this question, he removed the comment. Don't remove mine. Answer honestly.
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Don't fall for Makavelli's weak traps.
Rather ask him, where in the Quran it states one should sever the hand of a thief?
The grammar, syntax, morphology of the verse are a clear indication that it is not referring to literal hands but MEANS, ability etc...
Agents nope
