Can we really blame exmuslims for leaving faith?

unknownuser

First of all why do you generalize individuals as if all atheists and ex-muslims are peaceful.
The atheists and disbelievers are in fact the most corrupting force in the world right now.
It is your understanding and identifying of the proper definitions and culprits that fails you in realizing this.
Look at what Western civilization has done to the Middle East to the World! Those in power in the "West" welcome promiscuity, homosexuality, financial inequality, segregation, oppression, colonialism, intoxication and suppression of the True Deen, war against Islam in GENERAL, misconstruing of the True Faith by portrayal of extremists etc....

Also there is no such thing as an atheist, because those who doubt the Hereafter, worship their own desire,
they associate partners with The God

So you can bunch them all up together with the disbelievers and polytheists they all associate partners

In fact, if you read Quran you would know this from the example of the two neighbors and their gardens.

Get educated

Your acting as if muslim countries are so perfect. Look at their human rights violations TODAY . It's awful. No not all exmuslim and atheists are peaceful. However the exmuslims I've met left islam because of the misogyny and hate they found inside the sectarian teachings- the one all muslims are taught to follow.

Comrox

People leave religion the same way they enter it.

I'm not sure I directly "blame" them (the specific former Muslims you are talking about, who leave religion because of their family or society) for having their views on Islam. But I think we're all responsible for thinking critically and seeking information. We live in the age of technology. So many books, articles, videos, podcasts, forums, the whole of the Internet - all available for us at our fingertips due to our smartphone, tablet, or computer devices. So many places we can go today. So many options. So many ways to learn.

I don't blame them for seeing Islam as what's around them if that's all they've known. But perhaps you could blame them, as we all can blame ourselves, for making sweeping generalizations. People should be judged by their actions. Not words.

HP_TECH

I never said any country was perfect, but you obviously chose to scrutinize and criticize only one side.
That is not the work of an honest truth seeker.

I don't pardon any of the actions of the extremists like I don't condone any of the actions of the American Government committing human rights violations in their very own country against descendants of immigrants, native americans and African slaves and also outwardly all over the world Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan should I go on? Have you ever heard of Wikileaks, Snowden?
Look how Israel is massacring and oppressing the Palestinians most of those Israelis are secular Jews, Israel promotes even homosexuality and all kind of corruption which your atheist friends are so fond of.
Look how European countries violate human rights in their ex-imperial colonies, look at South Africa!
Do you know history? Current events?

Are most Europeans not disillusioned polytheists and atheists altogether?

Look at the result of their deen, is it really any better than the wahabbis that you should single the latter ones out?

That is my only concern.

They're all transgressors

A_Submitter

Your acting as if it was their fault they did not know true Islam. What can they do if they've been indoctrinated from childhood and told never to question.

All sectarians are aware that setting up partners with God is a sin. What do they do?
Set up partners with God, yet they know it's sinful.

So, it is their fault.

Every single sectarian I have discussed with knows that the worst sin is setting up partners with God. They're extremely aware of this.
In conclusion; it is their fault.

unknownuser

All sectarians are aware that setting up partners with God is a sin. What do they do?
Set up partners with God, yet they know it's sinful.

So, it is their fault.

Every single sectarian I have discussed with knows that the worst sin is setting up partners with God. They're extremely aware of this.
In conclusion; it is their fault.

Just a few weeks ago, I was a sectarian. I thought nt being one was haram. Do you know why? Because I was INDOCTRINATED with these beliefs as a child. As was EVERY child around me. I am nt talking about the mullahs, I am talking about averge muslims who are taught by everyone they know NEVER to question anything and that ONLY the scholars know what they're talking about and that not following hadith is HARAM. this is what I was taught as a child, this is what every muslim I know was taught.

How then is it the persons fault? I was so close to becoming an exmuslim had but then i discovered true quran islam alhumdulilah.

But not everyone is like me. When I speak of exmuslims, I don't mean ALL. I mean just the ones who have suffered in the name of islam.

I know this is a wierd question, I wasn't starting a debate. I just wanted compassionate speculation.

huruf

I understand what you say, baitachal, I said something to that effect also in the thread on

any good articles woman can lead prayers...

On the other hand I am realle adverse to the guilt focus. Pointing out guilt most of the time only creates hindrances and does not help in the least. We are all somewhat guilty at some point or other, but most of the time when a third person points out the guilt it is th wrong guilt.

Guilt is a wrong feeling. I fyou know what you have done wrong, correct, without guilt. If you don't know what you have done wrong, pointing out guilt will push you down, not up.

You have to analyse your doings and outlooks and subjacent stands without guilt, objectively, not to condemn you or save you, BUT TO KNOW. And when you know you will be able to come up with better views of everything and with better attitudes.

Nobody wrongs him or herself knowingly. What most people do wrong for htemsleves, they do not realise. As it were, they are on automatic pilot set on the wrong course.

One always must ask her or himself, what his or her motives are. Why does one act and think the way one does. Not cheating one self, sincerity towards and with oneself is the first stake inbuilding any character for goodness.

Salaam

A_Submitter

--

EdQ

Salam Baitchal,

I responded to this question on another one of your posts - I don't understand why people define themselves by what they are not.

I do think that some people turn away from Islam because of the stigma associated with it, or because of negative stereotypes promoted by the media, or by the Hadithist versions, but if they turn away then they were probably just following other men - not the actual faith of Islam.

Salam
Ed

HP_TECH

It is also perfectly possible for someone to have accepted the faith and then led astray by Allah

I do not deny such a possibility.

Meaning I do not think that all ex-muslims that have ever existed, were never at any point real believers.
Perhaps they were and then became disbelievers.

In the end, if Allah intends for them to astray, are you the one to guide them?

EdQ

Me?

HP_TECH

No just in general. I should have used a different pronoun, maybe we.
Also more or less directed at the OP

EdQ

It is also perfectly possible for someone to have accepted the faith and then led astray by Allah

I do not deny such a possibility.

Meaning I do not think that all ex-muslims that have ever existed, were never at any point real believers.
Perhaps they were and then became disbelievers.

In the end, if Allah intends for them to astray, are you the one to guide them?

I am re-visiting this question of ex-Muslims. This is my personal view.

I think that many of us at some point in our lives have been "in love" with another person.
We probably thought that this thing called LOVE which we felt was real (although we couldn't touch it) - some of us probably fell "out of love" with that person.

To me, belief in a higher power is more spiritual and uplifting than the other (non-touchable) thing called love.

So when we believe in God alone, that belief should change our foundations - after all we believe (when we actually are believing) that through our belief and the ensuing righteous actions, we will gain access to the gardens of hereafter.

This belief should change our fundamental being as if affects not only our life on this planet, but the hereafter. I.e more profound than even love.

If someone chooses to disbelieve for whatever reason, then perhaps the faith was not really in their heart in the first place - this is why they found a substitute for the faith - even if it was disbelief. They would otherwise not have risked the foundations of this life and the hereafter.

I know many Hadithists, Christians & Jews who go through life "believing" and then stop and become atheists. Its almost as if they were blindly following a set of rituals than having believed in the first place.

All of these groups cannot blame anyone but themselves - they follow peer pressure and follow their peers - without really critically assessing what they are doing. They work to be part of a group and they want to bring others into their group and become bigger and more potent. That is not my idea of belief.

Salam
Ed

imrankhawaja

everybody is what he is..

nobody is dishonest with their own self.. thats why we have sunni, shia, christian, jews, buddists, hindus, sikh
black, white, poor, rich, handsome, ugly, normal,abnormal,athiest,agnostic and lot more flavors that are created by God..

he is the one who creates all this so that he test us with what he provide us..

but in the end thats the brain and abilty of a person is responsible for what he is .. who is to blame ?

what is the fault of an athiest whose mind is unable to understand the nature of God or demi gods that every religion of this planet have...

some worship kabba and muhammand
some worship jesus and maryum
some worship ram, sita, hanuman
some worship budda
some worship baba guru nanak

idols and idols everywhere...

athiest is intelligent in all of the above .. atleast he is not a blind follower

A_Submitter

everybody is what he is..

nobody is dishonest with their own self.. thats why we have sunni, shia, christian, jews, buddists, hindus, sikh
black, white, poor, rich, handsome, ugly, normal,abnormal,athiest,agnostic and lot more flavors that are created by God..

he is the one who creates all this so that he test us with what he provide us..

but in the end thats the brain and abilty of a person is responsible for what he is .. who is to blame ?

what is the fault of an athiest whose mind is unable to understand the nature of God or demi gods that every religion of this planet have...

some worship kabba and muhammand
some worship jesus and maryum
some worship ram, sita, hanuman
some worship budda
some worship baba guru nanak

idols and idols everywhere...

athiest is intelligent in all of the above .. atleast he is not a blind follower

'(
Atheist is in fact a blind follower because he/she rejects while not knowing why. They blindly follow the devil.

imrankhawaja

'(
Atheist is in fact a blind follower because he/she rejects while not knowing why. They blindly follow the devil.

no he did not rejects ,

actually he did not find any evidence of diety called version of gods

he jst trying to figuring it out , what is the reality , so he is on a mission same like once abraham was on mission
abraham test , the sun God, moon God, star God, but he disappointed by all of them

in the end he understand the one who create all this is eligibble for a God...

athiest is doing same thing he beleives what creates all this universe is force of nature (on other words he is very close to the real God)...

blind follwers are sunni, shia, christian ,jews, buddists , who dnt know their gods and demi gods they just make god in to human which is a clear offence against the nature of real creator

Amra94

'(
Atheist is in fact a blind follower because he/she rejects while not knowing why. They blindly follow the devil.

True that, they worship their desires aka following the devil

imrankhawaja

True that, they worship their desires aka following the devil

actually i come to know athiest dnt beleive in devils too rotfl
he did not worship his desires he is searching for truth ..
human being is designed to fullfill their desires like, eat,wear,understanding the nature etc..

Amra94

actually i come to know athiest dnt beleive in devils too rotfl
he did not worship his desires he is searching for truth ..
human being is designed to fullfill their desires like, eat,wear,understanding the nature etc..

Youre defending a group of people who mock believers nope

imrankhawaja

Youre defending a group of people who mock believers nope

no actually i m not defending anybody

i m telling you what they think..

ur only drawback is this you did not read the previous posts of the subject and did not comprehend what i m trying to convey ,,

anyway..
in short the sect athiest is not different than all other religious sects these are labels what community give to eachother..

now look we all have a label , quranist/ahle quran/God aloners
if you say this label infront of sunni/shia/ahle hadith they will think about you the same way how you are thinking about athiests..

according to them we are kaffirs/hadith rejectors/dwellers of fire/ ghustakhe rasool and lot of other flavours what they think..and on top of that we will go to hell because on the day of judgement we will not have the intercession of prophet ..

what i want to tell you in all my previous posts is this..
be a good human , thats what the first requirement of God system

if you are not a good human how can you be a good muslim(peacemaker) ...

and about mocking every beleiver sunni,shia,christian,jew,muslims all mock to eachother ..

True that, they worship their desires aka following the devil

now look at your bold part ...
it convey me a message that the one who serve his desire is a devil.. which is totally/absolutelty/definately wrong in my understandings

because if we did not serve our desires the whole concept of our purpose look imperfect...

even we have a desire to achieve janna(garden of bliss)
without desire humanbeing= 0

EdQ

.......

now look at your bold part ...
it convey me a message that the one who serve his desire is a devil.. which is totally/absolutelty/definately wrong in my understandings

because if we did not serve our desires the whole concept of our purpose look imperfect...

even we have a desire to achieve janna(garden of bliss)
without desire humanbeing= 0

The way I see this is that if your desire goes with the path that God has to tread in the Final Testament, then it has to be good. In other words if you desire to help people then that is good as God asks us to do this.
If you desire to save lives that is also good.

However, lets assume (for the sake of argument and totally theoretically), that you desire to fulfill your lust of food, hate, sex, murder etc - that is akin to worshiping the devil. The devil wants us to do stuff that goes against God and against what God ordains for humans.

Salam
Ed