This article is from this site is very controversial.

The_Sardar

In his text he says Hindus and Buddhists don't believe in Heaven or Hell, and they constitute 50% of mankind. His first reason is that because of their great number, their belief must be correct

Hey you are on to something, Buddhists are like 5.25% of the human population and Hindus are like 13.95% https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations#Adherent_estimates_in_2012

And the guy forgot a very important verse

6116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

How did he miss that? confused

The_Sardar

In Quran we know majority of mankind will be in Hell.

Salam dear human A Submitter could you show me the verses you speak of majority of mankind goes to hell

P.S He claims that Paradise is biblical. I dont believe in biblical. I acknowledge God SWT as the Lord of the Universe.

Zulf

I stopped reading when he mentioned Hindus and Buddhists for his reasoning.

If you had continued you'd read about the Quran. Why stop so easily?

In Quran we know majority of mankind will be in Hell.
In his text he says Hindus and Buddhists don't believe in Heaven or Hell, and they constitute 50% of mankind. His first reason is that because of their great number, their belief must be correct, which goes against that majority of mankind will end up in Hell.

A slightly halting paraphrasing I'd say.
What he said what actually

Large swathes of humanity do not have this idea of ?heaven and hell? in their belief systems. The buddhist based civilizations (China, Korea, Japan) and the hindus do not have any idea of a permanent afterlife in a heaven or hell. That is almost half the human race. We cannot simply dismiss the intellect of half the human race.

This man is a liar.

Or maybe he is a human being.

Anyone can be correct on some things, and wrong on other things.
No one is perfect. We all have biases, weaknesses, delusions and ignorance.
We still may have true ideas as well.
I mean, are you correct in all your ideas? If not, are you then a liar?

Of course, you may not be interested in reading that guy's stuff (which btw is partly based on Aidid Safar), but you cannot judge that which you haven't even read.

To call him liar though would be over-confident imho.
Peace

A_Submitter

Salam dear human A Submitter could you show me the verses you speak of majority of mankind goes to hell

P.S He claims that Paradise is biblical. I dont believe in biblical. I acknowlagde God SWT as the Lord of the Universe

Salam,

You just did in previous post, 6116. D

There's 1985-86 too.

There are some more verses, but I can't find them now. I'll post them in a couple of hours if I find them.

The_Sardar

Salam,

You just did in previous post, 6116. D

There's 1985-86 too.

There are some more verses, but I can't find them now. I'll post them in a couple of hours if I find them.

Uh human brother 1985 The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
1985 The Day We gather the righteous to the Almighty as a delegation.

1986 And We drive the criminals to Hell as a herd.

Not sure its speaks about majority but its speaks about evil people.

A_Submitter

Uh human brother 1985 The Monotheist Group (The Quran A Monotheist Translation)
1985 The Day We gather the righteous to the Almighty as a delegation.

1986 And We drive the criminals to Hell as a herd.

Not sure its speaks about majority but its speaks about evil people.

They words are keys here.

Delegation and herd.
Delegation is a small group, while a herd is a large group. It depends on how we interpret these two words.

The_Sardar

They words are keys here.

Delegation and herd.
Delegation is a small group, while a herd is a large group. It depends on how we interpret these two words.

Well i want to use root words instead of interpretations. It could help out the non arabic speakers like me.

MissMarple77

Don't be scared. The writer of this article seems to live in a society highly controlled by mullahs and he seems to be really fed up with it (he describes the western countries as a paradise).
Even the most traditional translations of the Quran say in sura 4715 that the description of paradise (and therefore also the description of hell) is an allegory.
So out of the allegorical descriptions in the Quran can be concluded (like the author of the article does) Paradise is a state of "plenty, ease and comfort" and hell means "tribulation, hardship and calamity".
But his conclusion then is lacking of any logic. He says because there can't be actual rivers of milk, wine and honey (it's an allegory!) it must be a description of life here on earth.

A_Submitter

Well i want to use root words instead of interpretations. It could help out the non arabic speakers like me.

I meant how one interprets/define the words in English. I don't know root words brickwall

EdQ

I have read this Biblical Mulllahs site too - it is either a joke or a sadly hateful Evangelical or Zionist who wants to misguide wannabe-Muslims - what ever floats his boat! He even translates Haram as something that should be done. I really don't have time for negativity like that.

Personally when I was researching Quran-alone Information I did come across a number of dubious sites but now with a number of relevant posts/debates on Free Minds and with the Quran (as well as with Root word and Quran only explanations) I have all (if now more than) the information I need for now.

I have never read the Quran so slowly since I came across Quran-alone Muslims - Before I would get through alot and now I only manage a few verses at at time - I need to check the translations and context etc...

I would advise other aspiring Quran-alone Muslims to spend more time with the Quran and translation dictionaries rather than negative stuff like Biblical Mullahs or Quranic Mulluahs!

Salam
Ed

EdQ

..........

To call him liar though would be over-confident imho.
Peace

Doesn't he say its ok to eat pork?
Personally, I am not going to read the whims of every tom, dick or harry who may have mental issues.
Reading the Quran is far more valuable than the whims of who ever wants to be heard.

Salam
Ed

good_logic

Amazing gymnastics and acrobatics we are getting with some of this generation of "Qoran" translators!
Qoran misguides as well as guides. It is a game of probability of whether the translator is guided or misguided if one relies on other than GOD Alone and their own effort to understand Qoran.
Much hard work and study is required,,
The student of Qoran will start to have doubts,nightmares,obstacles,distractions,multiple meanings,...etc Will one give up,follow others,persevere,go mad...The journey gets tougher and tougher...Some stop and give up,some keep changing loyalties,some make up stuff,some get even more confused...Some blame GOD for what they call "tales of old",some just persevere...

Well who will dare keep at it? How can one have confidence ?Will one stay sane?
GOD knows what will be made of Qoran next by its students! Does it matter? Who is right?Can Qoran ever be understood and followed properly?...
GOD bless.
Peace.

Zulf

In any case, and in general... the most dangerous case is when you are offered truth with some deliberate falsehood injected. We usually swallow whole packages, so we'll swallow the lies also just because there is a lot of truth around it. The idea is to keep thinking, and to try to discern the good parts from the bad parts in everything.

Regarding this biblical mullah website... I don't claim he is right or wrong, as I don't have time to dig into it, but I see that people tend to reject it simply because it goes against what they are previously taught and believe, which means nothing.

reel

From the article

Large swathes of humanity do not have this idea of ?heaven and hell? in their belief systems. The buddhist based civilizations (China, Korea, Japan) and the hindus do not have any idea of a permanent afterlife in a heaven or hell. That is almost half the human race. We cannot simply dismiss the intellect of half the human race.

Actually, hindus do have concepts of hell and heaven. One of the heavens is known as "Jannah". From them
"According to the Hindu Puranas, there are fourteen worlds in the universe - the seven upper and the seven lower. The seven upper worlds are Bhuh, Bhavah, Swah, Mahah, Janah. Tapah, and Satyam; and the seven nether worlds are Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Rasatala, Talatala, Mahatala, and Patala. The region known as Bhuh is the earth where we dwell, while Swah is the celestial world to which people repair after death to enjoy the reward of their righteous actions on earth. Bhuvah is the region between the two. Janah, Tapah, and Satyam constitute Brahmaloka, or the highest heaven, where fortunate souls repair after death and enjoy spiritual communion with the personal God, and at the end of the cycle attain liberation, though a few return to earth again. The world of Mahah is located between Brahmaloka and Bhuh, Bhuuah, and Swah. Patala, the lowest of the seven nether worlds, is the realm where wicked souls sojourn after death and reap the results of their unrighteous actions on earth."

There are two kinds of Buddhism. In one which is found in Asian countries is a reformed version. It takes into account all pagan elements. Hence, the similarity it shares with Hinduism.

Smart beggars called themselves priests and frightened the masses with burning hellfire if the masses did not listen to them. Those who listened to them, accompanied by donations in the box, would be promised the delights and promises of heaven. The 72 virgins promised to the muslim suicide bombers all over the world are just variations of the same idea. The underlying falsehood remains the same.

hmm This person doesn't seem to know much about Middle Eastern societies.

Biggest fail

2435 ALLAH is the light of the skies and the earth. The allegory (mathalu) of His light is that of a concave mirror behind a lamp that is placed inside a glass container. The glass container is like a bright, pearl-like star. The fuel thereof is supplied from a blessed oil-producing tree, that is neither eastern, nor western. Its oil is almost self-radiating; needs no fire to ignite it. Light upon light. ALLAH guides to His light whoever wills (to be guided). ALLAH thus cites the allegories (mathalu) for the people. ALLAH is fully aware of all things.

It does not mean here that Allah is the actual light (like a torchlight or street lamp) of the skies and the earth. The sufis confuse this particular verse and make much about the ?spiritual light of Allah?. Allah is not a spirit and there is no such thing as spirituality or spiritual light either.

This verse explains clearly what is an allegory. An allegory is not real. We have to use our imagination. We have to imagine a bright lamp, solidly built in clear glass which is dependable which throws useful illumination so that we can see in the dark. That gives us an idea of what is Allah?s guidance. It does not mean that Allah actually shines a torchlight at anyone or that His ?light? actually comes from a lamp behind a glass set in a niche in a wall somewhere in the ?heavens?. There is no such thing.

Not so fast. We humans are almost there when it comes to lambda cdm model https//3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/2015/6-istheunivers.jpg

Amazing gymnastics and acrobatics we are getting with some of this generation of "Qoran" translators!
Qoran misguides as well as guides. It is a game of probability of whether the translator is guided or misguided if one relies on other than GOD Alone and their own effort to understand Qoran.
Much hard work and study is required,,
The student of Qoran will start to have doubts,nightmares,obstacles,distractions,multiple meanings,...etc Will one give up,follow others,persevere,go mad...The journey gets tougher and tougher...Some stop and give up,some keep changing loyalties,some make up stuff,some get even more confused...Some blame GOD for what they call "tales of old",some just persevere...

Well who will dare keep at it? How can one have confidence ?Will one stay sane?
GOD knows what will be made of Qoran next by its students! Does it matter? Who is right?Can Qoran ever be understood and followed properly?...
GOD bless.
Peace.

I believe there is a need for dialogue about how to approach the Quran. I know it happened before, but it was focused on the language only.

I have realized that some of the verses found in the Quran can be cracked by analyzing external signs. God tells us to do that anyways. But we have to be patient because we are not just there yet when it comes to science.

huruf

But his conclusion then is lacking of any logic. He says because there can't be actual rivers of milk, wine and honey (it's an allegory!) it must be a description of life here on earth.

That is right. If it allegorical it is allegorical and then the author is tripping all over himself.

And of course the justice of God who will not cheat anybody even on an atom worth goes down the drain.

Very shocking indeed. Become drug dealer or a warlord be successful and establish yourself in the west. That is the way to go to heaven.

Salaam

EdQ

Regarding this biblical mullah website... I don't claim he is right or wrong, as I don't have time to dig into it, but I see that people tend to reject it simply because it goes against what they are previously taught and believe, which means nothing.

The comments were in relation to the author of the website saying it is OK for people to eat pork which is something God tells us not to in the Quran - that in itself is a bit of a red herring.
Then the author translates HARAM as something that's OK or sanctioned - this surely seems an exaggeration.

I wonder, if he said killing is OK or inciting hatred is OK, would hat be a red line at all or fall into a category of what people are taught or what they accept?

One thing you are right in saying is that people are indeed at ease in picking up what others do, irrespective or it being right or wrong - that's peer pressure and the need to fit in.

Salam
Ed

The_Sardar

Salam Alaykum brothers and sisters of mankind. I found this video about possible evidence for afterlife. https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBQ5GY4vk0

What do you think?

Anoushirvan

This is perfectly right, Quran doesn't say that after our death, i.e. end of vital body functions, like brain or heart, we (or some undefined part of us) will go to Paradise or Hell, or that we will enter Paradise or Hell after the end of the earth or the universe, or anything similar as we are taught by Islam or Christianism.
In the same vein, there is no "resurrection" in the sense that our body will be reconstituted on the "Last Day".

On the contrary, Quran keeps saying that we will recreated in a new creation, e.g.

1798 Such is their recompense that they rejected Our revelations, and they said "If we are bones and fragments, will we be sent into a new creation?"

A new creation is not something hypothetical that will take place in an undefined future when Earth or Universe would be destroyed.
No, a new creation is something that can be constantly observed

2919 Did they not observe how God initiates the creation then He returns it? All that for God is easy to do.
2920 Say "Roam the earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Thus God will establish the final next creation. God is capable of all things."

Here I disagree with FM translation, akhira doesn't mean "last" or "final" but "after" or "next".
In these verses we are asked to observe. So creation and new creation is something we can personnally witness.

Paradise is not to be found elsewhere than on Earth as explained in this verse

3974 And they said "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the land, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"

As for this verse

4715 Is the example of Paradise; that the righteous have been promised with rivers of pure water, and rivers of milk whose taste does not change, and rivers of intoxicants that are delicious for the drinkers, and rivers of strained honey, and for them in it are all kinds of fruits, and a forgiveness from their Lord; like that of those who abide in the Fire, and are given to drink boiling water that cuts-up their intestines?

It is borrowed from a Jewish midrash attributed to Yehoshuah ben Levi in 3rd century C.E., see http//www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/11900-paradise

"Paradise has two diamond gates, and there are 600,000 attending angels with shining faces. Immediately on the arrival of the righteous, they divest him of his shroud and clothe him witheight garments made of clouds of honor. They put a double crown of fine gold and jewels on his head, and place eight myrtles in his hand. The angels salute him, saying, 'Go eat thy bread with joy,' and lead him along valleys of water in which grow 800 species of roses and myrtles. Each of the righteous has a canopy as is befitting his excellence. Connected with each canopy are four rivulets of milk, wine, balsam, and honey. Over each canopy grows a golden vine studded with thirty pearls, each glittering like Venus. Under the canopy is a table of onyx set with diamonds and pearls. Sixty angels guard every righteous one and ask him to partake of the honey as compensation for his study of the Law, which is likened to honey (Ps. xix. 10), and to drink the wine, which has been preserved in its grapes ever since the six days of Creation, the Law being likened to spiced wine (Cant. viii. 2). The most uncomely of the righteous becomes as beautiful as Joseph and as R. Johanan. Exiguous silver pomegranates reflect the sun, which is always shining; for 'the path of the just is as the shining light' (Prov. iv. 1. There are three stages through which the newcomer has to pass (1) the section of the children, which he enters as at child; (2) the section of the young; and (3) the section of the old. In each section he enjoys himself as befits his state and age"

Finally, with a bit of though and pondering, it appears that death in Quran is largely a metaphor for idolatry, and that "resurrection" in a new creation is actually a metaphor for spiritual renaissance.
This spiritual renaissance actually took place in the seventh century after quranic predication by Muhammad's followers.

What is needed is a spiritual renaissance of the Muslim world because it is now almost spiritually dead.

The_Sardar