Ramadan
-
Ramadan is very clear, 30 days of fasting, dawn to dusk starting on Friday night 5/26 where I live insha'Allah this year of 2017.
30 days is simply impossible.
Because Allah orders
whoever among you witnesses the shahr
to fast it - ...That is, they will first witness the shahr
and only after that they will fast it.This year
May 25 is the day when the moon is dark,
so nobody can witness it on May 25.They will witness it in the evening of May 26.
But...
May 26 has already passed without fasting when they witness the ramadhan crescent in the evening.
Or else, they will fast the shahr before they witness it against Allah's order. -
Peace
2185 shahru/lunar cycle ramadan (heat) the one descends in it the Qur?an guidance to the humankind?
shahru/lunar cycle jumada (parched land) the first from sanatin/year date twosome and twenty (i.e. 22) and written his son hadidu
http//oi67.tinypic.com/nfogsg.jpg
Perf 558 "30 pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" 25 April year 643 shahru jumada the first (30th last day of month)
http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases0601.html
New moon (crescent not visible)
April 24 Jumada al-awwal 29; April 25 Jumada al-awwal 30 (Perf 55
May 23 Jumada al-thani 28
June 21 Rajab 28; June 24 Shaban 1; July 7 (first full moon after summer solstice)
July 21 Shaban 28; July 23 Ramadan 1 (the first new month after solstice full moon)
Aug 20 Ramadan 29; Aug 21 Ramadan 30Interesting Ramadan fell mid-summer hottest time 1st new month after solstice full moon.
-
Salaam all,
I suggest you all take a look at the other thread on Ramadan where we are discussing this issue with jemby97. https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609528.0
"Salaam again jemby,
I still think we are missing a huge point here everyone. In my humble opinion, shahar does not mean full moon, it means month. The 'hu in falyasum'hu is referring to shahar, the month. Look at the other instances of shahar in the Qur'an, does it seem like it is referring to a full moon? Start here with 584
"But whoever cannot find the means must fast for two consecutive months before they may touch one another. And if he is unable, then the feeding of sixty needy people. This, in order that you affirm your faith in God and His Messenger. These are the ordinances of God. The unbelievers will have a painful punishment." 584
This verse is discussing the atonement for wrongly accusing your wife of being her mother, or worse, and clearly states that you will fast for two months. And if you cannot fast then you are obliged to feed a poor person for each day of the fast, which is why you must then feed 60 poor people.
This seems quite clear to me and I am not sure where the discrepancy lies for everyone. Please let me know."
Go check out the other Ramadan thread, we should try to bring all of these ideas together. If we are to feed 60 people instead of fasting for two months (30 days X 2 months = 60 days of fasting) for this atonement, why would fasting for the one month of Ramadan be any different than 30 days?
It seems odd we would all have that different of an opinion on this issue; however, I am sure God will accept all if our intentions are correct.
Best regards and Salaam,
Kyle
-
... shahar does not mean full moon, it means month.
Not always.
In 2185 shahr means the full moon
just like the night of decree in 971.The shahr ramadhan in which the reading was revealed... -
We revealed it on the night of decree -The reading and it are the same thing
which was revealed in only one night.The night of the hot full moon = the night of decree.
-
-
But is it really about identifying the month through a moon? Let's say winter solstice is the night of power. But it jus happens that the crescent moon is after the 25th. Does ot mean that Ramadan starts after night of decree?
Peace
Then it's the previous month O0 , the month before the month that starts 25th.
Though, it's important to also keep a count of months, it's 12 months. Sometimes we get a 13th extra month which we are to ignore. -
?And (it is) a Quran which We have divided (into parts), in order that you might recite it to men at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages.? .
?And those who disbelieve say Why is not the Quran revealed to him all at once? Thus (it is sent down in parts), that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages.? .
I am sorry I have to disagree with you all about this. Shahar means month, not the full moon; and the Qur'an was revealed in stages, just as the Qur'an states. I do not know where you get this idea that it was revealed all at once, even taking Layltul Al-Qadr in to account. Most believe it was sent to the first heaven (to Jibril) on Layltul Al-Qadr and then revealed over the 23 years of the prophet's life. Sending and revealing being two separate actions.
What do you all think? I know we are leaving the topic of Ramadan a bit, and still no one has addressed my question about verse 584 and the 60 poor people you should feed to makeup for 2 months of fasting. How does that fit in the equation of the meaning of shahar and the number of days it consists of?
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
-
I do not know where you get this idea that it was revealed all at once, even taking Layltul Al-Qadr in to account.
This has been discussed before.
Aymanright now I think that the most likely scenario is a two-stage revelation. For example, the great reading was descended in two stages. The first stage is iNZAL in one night per year (laylatu al-qadr/shahr ramadan). The second stage is gradual TANZiL to the prophet's heart by the spirit (see 26192-195, 2532). In this case, the spirit did indeed confirm what the prophet already had.
(https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10190.msg49369#msg49369).
What I understand from the relevant ayas is that it was not the whole Quran that was revelead on the hot full moon (the night of decree) but only a reading (a chapter) of it. I may explain more in detail later.
-
?And (it is) a Quran which We have divided (into parts), in order that you might recite it to men at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages.? .
?And those who disbelieve say Why is not the Quran revealed to him all at once? Thus (it is sent down in parts), that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages.? .
Peace, yes correct.
Look at Perf 558 shahru Jumada the first which is clear what it meant at the time.
Not clear how implemented i.e. was Ramadan always 1st new month after summer solstice full moon?
What do you all think? I know we are leaving the topic of Ramadan a bit, and still no one has addressed my question about verse 584 and the 60 poor people you should feed to makeup for 2 months of fasting. How does that fit in the equation of the meaning of shahar and the number of days it consists of?
It doesn't always correlate see below feed (10) poor or if no wherewithal (3) days...
10 poor = 3 days
200 poor = 60 days589 not will call you the god in the idle talk in right hands/oaths yours and however will call you in what pledge you the right hands/oaths so reparation its provide sustenance tentet (group of ten) poor from of moderate/middle what thou feeding families yours or clothe them or liberate neck (i.e. slave) so who not find so fast/abstinence trio (i.e. group of three successive) days such reparation right hands/oaths yours when have sworn you and that guard ye of right hands/oaths yours like such shows the god for you signs his that may you thanks giving
-
Noon, you will have to forget about the months of the so-called pure lunar year because they have been concokted after the death of our Prophet (pbuh) by postponing the 13th moon ON PAPER to the next iddah, so they are false.
Full
moon ?year
07 July. 632
27 June 633
16 July. 634
05 July. 635
24 June 636
12 July. 637
01 July. 638
21 June 639
08 July. 640
28 June 641
17 July. 642
07 July. 643Each iddah (ة beginning with the moon which I underlined above has 13 moons. If you postpone the 13th moon to the next iddah, you will get the 12-moon/month lunar year. But you can do that only ON PAPER. Your hands can never reach the moons which Allah created in the sky and you can never postpone them.
1--------------2------3--------4--------5--------6--------7---------8-------------9-------10-------11------12------13
27 Jun 633-26 Jul-24 Aug-23 Sep-22 Oct-21 Nov-21 Dec-20 Jan 634-18 Feb-20 Mar-19 Apr-18 May-16 Jun
16 Jul 634?Since the day Allah created the skies and the earth (936) there is no such thing as a moon/lunar month coming 11 days eralier non stop each year.
Each one of the true moons/lunar months is fixed at a particular time of the solar year. For example the full moon which rises after the longest day of the year is fixed between June 21 and July 21.
All those "shahr jumada al-awwal"s, "shahr ramadhan"s etc... of the pure lunar year (falsely called islamic) are false.
The true moons/lunar months which Allah created are IN THE SKY,
they are not ON PAPER which people call calendar. -
Noon, you will have to forget about the months of the so-called pure lunar year because they have been concokted after the death of our Prophet (pbuh) by postponing the 13th moon ON PAPER to the next iddah, so they are false.
Peace brook,
Yes familiar with full moon stuff agree the ignorant took over made up things nowhere written in Qu'ran. However, early documents like receipt of sheep and other accounts are unbiased and according to Perf 558 if we role forward Ramadan falls mid-summer right after summer solstice full moon. Likewise this account in the year 541 CE ...
Flavius Belisarius, commander of the Byzantine armies, summoned a council of war against Persia. Two Roman officers in command of Syrian garrisons refused to join Belisarius' army to Nisibis. They said that their absence would leave Syria and Phoenicia exposed to the attacks of the Arabs.
Belisarius argued that this would not be a problem because the summer solstice was at hand, when the Arabs devoted two months to the rites of their religion without resorting to arms, so there was no cause for apprehension. -- Invasion of Syria and sack of Antioch by Gibbon
936 indeed count l-shuhri/the lunar cycles near/with the god two dual ten (twelve) shahran/lunar cycle of in book the god day creation the heavens and the land therein quartet (i.e. group) urumun/prohibit such the creed the value so not thou wrong ye of in/concerning them souls yours (yourselves) and fight ye of the idolaters all like/as what fighting you all and know ye of that the god with the righteous
937 only the postponement increase in the disregard misguided in it the ones disregard they of allowing it Aama/year of and prohibiting it Aama/year of to adjust count what prohibit the god so allow they of what prohibit the god beautified for them evil deeds theirs and the god not guided the folk the skeptics
2185 shahru Ramadan the one descends in it the Qur?an guidance to the humankind?
Perf 558 shahru Jumada the first from sanatin/year twosome and twenty (22) and written his son Hadidu
"30 pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" 25 April year 643 shahru Jumada the first (30) or last day of month.
http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases0601.html
New moon (crescent not visible)
April 24 Jumada al-awwal 29; April 25 Jumada al-awwal 30 (Perf 55
May 23 Jumada al-thani 28
June 21 Rajab 28; June 24 Shaban 1; July 7 (1st full moon after summer solstice)
July 21 Shaban 28; July 23 Ramadan 1 (1st new month after solstice full moon)
August 20 Ramadan 29; August 21 Ramadan 30Plausible occurs mid-summer or 1st month after full moon summer solstice...
new # full moon year
Jan 6 6 Jan 21 642
Feb 5 7 Feb 20
Mar 6 8 Mar 22
Apr 5 9 Apr 20
May 4 10 May 19
Jun 3 11 Jun 18
Jul 2 12 Jul 17
Aug 1 Ramadan Aug 15
Aug 31 2 Sep 14
Sep 29 3 Oct 13
Oct 29 4 Nov 12
Nov 27 5 Dec 12
Dec 27 6 Jan 10 643
Jan 25 7 Feb 9
Feb 24 8 Mar 11
Mar 25 9 Apr 10
Apr 24 10 May 9
May 23 11 Jun 7
Jun 21 12 Jul 7
Jul 21 Ramadan Aug 5
Aug 20 2 Sep 3
Sep 18 3 Oct 3
Oct 18 4 Nov 1
Nov 17 5 Dec 1
Dec 16 6 Dec 31
Jan 15 7 Jan 29 644
Feb 13 8 Feb 28
Mar 14 9 Mar 29
Apr 12 10 Apr 27
May 11 11 May 27
Jun 10 12 Jun 25
Jul 9 Ramadan Jul 25
Aug 8 2 Aug 23
Sep 6 3 Sep 21
Oct 6 4 Oct 21
Nov 5 5 Nov 19
Dec 5 6 Dec 19
Jan 3 7 Jan 17 645
Feb 2 8 Feb 16
Mar 3 9 Mar 18
Apr 2 10 Apr 16
May 1 11 May 16
May 30 12 Jun 15
Jun 29 no count Jul 14
Jul 28 Ramadan Aug 13
Aug 27 2 Sep 11
Sep 25 3 Oct 11
Oct 25 4 Nov 9
Nov 24 5 Dec 8
Dec 24 6 Jan 7
Jan 22 7 Feb 5 646
Feb 21 8 Mar 7
Mar 22 9 Apr 5
Apr 21 10 May 5
May 20 11 Jun 4
Jun 18 12 Jul 3
Jul 18 Ramadan Aug 2
Aug 16 2 Sep 1
Sep 15 3 Sep 30
Oct 14 4 Oct 30
Nov 13 5 Nov 28
Dec 13 6 Dec 28
Jan 11 7 Jan 26 647
Feb 10 8 Feb 24
Mar 12 9 Mar 26
Apr 10 10 Apr 24
May 10 11 May 24
Jun 8 12 Jun 22
Jul 7 Ramadan Jul 22 -
Ramadan is all about working against your body's needs and instincts.
You will not feed your body anything (food & drink)
You will not provide your body of any kind of pleasure. That also include sleeping all day long and being lazy.
You will not follow your negative self into manifesting either gossip, mockery, anger, jealousy, pride...And this everyday for about 30 days, from dawn until sunset.
From sunset until dawn, you have enough time to rest, and eat and drink. I'd advise drinking small portions of water (and juice) continuously starting from the moment your fast breaks i.e sunset until whenever you are willing to sleep.
You should sleep early because you are physically tired, and because you should probably wake up slightly before dawn to have a final meal and drink. But this one depends on the person, you can make the final preparations slightly before dawn or way before. Best thing to do is to sleep early and wake up early, make your final preparations and start your day.
This by the way, might not perfectly match what quranists believe.
Quite luxurious! Reality is quite different.
-
I basically do what Cerberus suggests around the clock, year around.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Plausible occurs mid-summer or 1st month after full moon summer solstice...
Definitely.
------1-----------2-------3--------4--------5---------6-------7-------8--------9-------10------11-------12------13
21 Jan 642-20 Feb-22 Mar-20 Apr-19 May-18 Jun-17 Jul-15 Aug-14 Sep-13 Oct-12 Nov-12 Dec
10 Jan 643-09 Feb-11 Mar-10 Apr-09 May-07 Jun-07 Jul-05 Aug-03 Sep-03 Oct-01 Nov-01 Dec-31 Dec
29 Jan 644-28 Feb-29 Mar-27 Apr-27 May-25 Jun-25 Jul-23 Aug-21 Sep-21 Oct-19 Nov-19 Dec
17 Jan 645-16 Feb-18 Mar-16 Apr-16 May-15 Jun-14 Jul-13 Aug-11 Sep-11 Oct-09 Nov-08 Dec
07 Jan 646-05 Feb-07 Mar-05 Apr-05 May-04 Jun-03 Jul-02 Aug-01 Sep-30 Sep-30 Oct-28 Nov-28 Dec
26 Jan 647-24 Feb-26 Mar-24 Apr-24 May-22 Jun-22 Jul-21 Aug-19 Sep-19 Oct-18 Nov-17 DecNotes
Here iddah is
series of the full moons
from Jan to Jan.A series of the full moons
is 12 full moons (936)The 354 days of a 12-moon series
fall 11 days shorter than the 365-day solar year,
and this makes the moons come
11 days earlier.When the 11 days
add up to 29.5 days or more,
a 13th moon appears.The 13th moon
makes the moons in the next series come
19 days later.Time of the full moon
immediately after the summer solstice
is fixed between June 21 and July 21.
That is the shahr ramadan-hot moon. -
Salamu Alaykum Brook,
This is a misquote of 936. Here is the full beginning of that verse
The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year).
Yes 12 months in a year (not 12 full moons by the way, as there can be more than 12), about 30 days each, gives us our Lunar Year. Which is why Ramadan is starting in about 9 days and will go for about 30 days after that insha'Allah.
Again, no one has addressed 584 which clearly states that two months of fasting=60 days, therefore logically 1 month of fasting=30 days. I do not see what is so difficult for everyone to understand here. Am I missing something?
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
-
This is a misquote of 936. Here is the full beginning of that verse
The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year).
Peace -- which word is year?
Again, no one has addressed 584 which clearly states that two months of fasting=60 days, therefore logically 1 month of fasting=30 days. I do not see what is so difficult for everyone to understand here. Am I missing something?
Did you not understand my prior post i.e. # of days fasting does not correlate with feeding # of poor?
584 so who not find so fast/abstinence shahrayni/lunar cycles two successive two from before that touch dual so who not able so provide sustenance sixty poor of ...
60 poor = 60 days
quote author=Noon waalqalami link=topic=9609522.msg405045#msg405045 date=1495059216
It doesn't always correlate see below feed (10) poor or if no wherewithal (3) days...
10 poor = 3 days
200 poor = 60 days589 not will call you the god in the idle talk in right hands/oaths yours and however will call you in what pledge you the right hands/oaths so reparation its provide sustenance tentet (group of ten) poor from of moderate/middle what thou feeding families yours or clothe them or liberate neck (i.e. slave) so who not find so fast/abstinence trio (i.e. group of three successive) days such reparation right hands/oaths yours when have sworn you and that guard ye of right hands/oaths yours like such shows the god for you signs his that may you thanks giving
-
Hi everyone,
it would be more useful to look at the context of verse 936 and 937 together.936 God ordained the months twelve in number when He created the heavens and the earth. Of these, four are sacred, according to the true Faith. Therefore do not sin against yourselves by violating them. But you may fight against the idolaters in all these months, since they themselves fight against you in all of them. Know that God is with the righteous.
937 The postponement of sacred months is a grossly impious practice, in which the unbelievers are misguided. They allow it one year and forbid it in the next, so that they may make up for the months which God has sanctified, thus making lawful what God has forbidden. Their foul acts seem fair to them God does not guide the unbelievers.There are twelve months, of these four are sacred. In verse 937 we are told these sacred months are arbitrarily postponed from year to year. So the sacred months are recurrent every year. So we have in 936 the twelve months of a year. And not twelve full moons, because how can you postpone the full moon? You can only postpone the sacred months.
-
The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year).
In 936 Allah is saying NOTHING
concerning the solar year
or the lunar year or the luni-solar year
or ANY year system.All He is saying is
that
number of the full moons is? twelve,
iddat al-shohoor? isn? ashere shahr.Another thing He is not saying is
that
number of the full moons is NOT thirteen.Allah is saying... number of "shahr"s is 12.
He is not saying it is not, it can NOT be 13.So it is up to you to check to see
whether it can be thirteen as well.For example
the iddah of 2018-2019...
can it have 13 full moons?Here is the times of the full moons of the iddah
-------1------------2-------3--------4--------5--------6--------7-----------8------------9------10-------11-------12------13
27 Jun 2018-26 Jul-24 Aug-23 Sep-22 Oct-21 Nov-21 Dec-20 Jan 2019-18 Feb-20 Mar-19 Apr-18 May-16 Jun
17 Jul 2019...You do not have to believe these full moon times,
so count the full moons of 2018-2019 YOURSELF.Next year start with the June moon when it is full
and go on counting until the July moon of 2019.Please do that to check for yourself
whether the number is 13 or not.And think
what becomes of the 12-shahr lunar year
when there are 13 "shahr"s up in the sky?Finally, the word shahr in 936...
can it be month (lasting 29.5 days)?
Is it possible?Ask yourself
Since the number of the "shahr"s from June to June/July (that is, a solar year) is 13
and since 13 times 29.5 equals 383.5 days,
would there be room for those 383.5 days in a 365-day solar year? Is it possible? -
Salamu Alaykum Brook,
Yes there can be 13 full moons in a year. It is called a Blue Moon, which is why Shahar means month and not full moon.
"A "Blue Moon" is the name given to the second full moon in a calendar month. Because there are roughly 29.5 days between full moons, it is unusual for two full moons to "fit" into a 30 or 31 day month (and impossible to fit into a 28 or 29 day month, so February can never have a Blue Moon)...In January and March of 1999, we had a situation which only takes place about four times a century two Blue Moons occurring in the same year. The last time this happened was in January and April of 1961 and it will not happen again until January and March of 2018. " https//nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/blue_moon.html
Also, still no one has answered about 584, which tells us that 2 months of fasting=feeding 60 poor people for the 60 days of the two months; thus, if you did not understand 2184-2190, here it is made clear for you that 1 month of fasting (Ramandan)= feeding thirty poor people for the 30 days of the month.
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
-
Yes there can be 13 full moons in a year. It is called a Blue Moon
Peace, yes correct.
http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases2001.html
fullmoon # year
Jan 12 1 2017
Feb 11 2
Mar 12 3
Apr 11 4
May 10 5
Jun 9 6
Jul 9 1 after summer solstice
Aug 7 2
Sep 6 3
Oct 5 4
Nov 4 5
Dec 3 6
Jan 2 7 2018
Jan 31 8
Mar 2 9
Mar 31 10
Apr 30 11
May 29 12
Jun 28 1 after solstice
Jul 27 2
Aug 26 3
Sep 25 4
Oct 24 5
Nov 23 6
Dec 22 7
Jan 21 8 2019
Feb 19 9
Mar 21 10
Apr 19 11
May 18 12
Jun 17 13
Jul 16 1 after solstice
Aug 15 2
Sep 14 3
Oct 13 4
Nov 12 5
Dec 12 6
Jan 10 7 2020
Feb 9 8
Mar 9 9
Apr 8 10
May 7 11
Jun 5 12
Jul 5 1 after solsticeAlso, still no one has answered about 584, which tells us that 2 months of fasting=feeding 60 poor people for the 60 days of the two months; thus, if you did not understand 2184-2190, here it is made clear for you that 1 month of fasting (Ramandan)= feeding thirty poor people for the 30 days of the month.
No, already answered you twice see 589 feed 10 poor is 3 days hence no correlation -- please confirm you read this?