Ramadan
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Salamu Alaykum Noon,
Thanks for 589, no I did not see that you mentioned that before.
I will have to disagree however as it seems we are comparing apples and oranges.
One issue is fasting the month of Ramadan, thirty days. The reason we get one day of not fasting=feeding one poor person during Ramadan is because of verses 2183-4
"O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,- (Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (With hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew." 2183-4
The fact that there are 30 days in the month of Ramadan and if you were to miss fasting all of those days for some reason, maybe you were on a voyage in the North Pole and the Sun was setting that year for example, it would be considered a "hardship" and you would make up the days later by feeding 1 poor person for each day. This is fine and in the context of fasting, no problems here.
Your example from 589 is about someone who has taken an oath and then broken it. Let's look at the whole verse
"Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." 589
This verse clearly gives people an ability to atone for breaking their oaths, which is great. The price is feeding 10 people, clothing 10 people, or giving a slave their freedom; these are very high prices. If you are unable to do this because of poverty then you can make it up with a lesser fast, but it is preferable to pay one of the first of the three high prices, and most everyone can afford to feed 10 people, even in the poorest villages I have lived in the Peruvian Andes I have witnessed that. Thus, I do not think these things can be compared as one is a command to fast during Ramadan (and God reminds us, "it is better for you if you fast, if you only knew", while the other is an expiation for a broken oath, and this expiation (3 days of fasting) has been lessened extremely from the first three high prices to put ease on the one who is unable.
These are extreme cases and not the norm, while the Qur'an allows for these situations to occur, I do not think we should elevate disparate and less clear verses over clear verses.
We should all remember,
"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding." 37
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
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Salamu Alaykum Noon,
Thanks for 589, no I did not see that you mentioned that before.
I will have to disagree however as it seems we are comparing apples and oranges.
One issue is fasting the month of Ramadan, thirty days. The reason we get one day of not fasting=feeding one poor person during Ramadan is because of verses 2183-4
Peace clash,
No that is an assumption.
Here it is not stated i.e. one can feed 1 poor (whole duration) or 1,000,000 poor/day ...
2184 days of maddtin so who be among you illness of or on journey so count from days another and on the ones can afford it ransom sustenance poor ...
Here exactly stated for offense breaking an oath ...
589 ... so reparation its provide sustenance tentet (ten group) poor from of moderate/middle what thou feeding families yours or clothe them or liberate neck (i.e. slave) so who not find so fast/abstinence trio days ...
Here exactly stated for this offense...
584 so who not find so fast/abstinence shahrayni/lunar cycles two successive two from before that touch dual so who not is able so provide sustenance sixty poor of
Hence no correlation.
SHAHR in 936 is only a 1-night FULL MOON.
Peace brook -- still have to "skip count" 13th full moon...
http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases2001.html
fullmoon # year
Jan 2 7 2018
Jan 31 8
Mar 2 9
Mar 31 10
Apr 30 11
May 29 12
Jun 28 1 after solstice
Jul 27 2
Aug 26 3
Sep 25 4
Oct 24 5
Nov 23 6
Dec 22 7
Jan 21 8 2019
Feb 19 9
Mar 21 10
Apr 19 11
May 18 12
Jun 17 13 <--- skip count
Jul 16 1 after solstice
Aug 15 2
Sep 14 3
Oct 13 4
Nov 12 5
Dec 12 6
Jan 10 7 2020
Feb 9 8
Mar 9 9
Apr 8 10
May 7 11
Jun 5 12
Jul 5 1 after solsticebtw, see mother of all threads by brother DR. Ayman (hasn't been on forum for a while) ...
Hot/"ramadan" Answer https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
Peace
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I am not sure I understand your response Noon. What is your argument exactly?
Obviously everyone can choose to follow what they want, but from the previous conversations I have had here for years including those over the past week or so I cannot say I have seen stronger evidence against fasting the month than I have seen evidence for fasting the month; thus, I will fast insha'Allah. To each their own.
Ramadan Mubarak/Kareem everyone, however you may be celebrating it!
Salaam,
Clash.
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I am not sure I understand your response Noon. What is your argument exactly?
Peace clash, it's simple this statement below is not true...
Quote clashncruz
"The reason we get one day of not fasting=feeding one poor person during Ramadan is because of verses 2183-4"It does NOT say how many poor to feed per day and left to the individual...
2184... and on the ones can afford it ransom sustenance poor ...If wealthy feed 1,000 each day or feed 1 poor person entire duration.
Cannot use 584 & 589 to justify 2184 means feed 1 poor = 1 day
Those are different circumstances/amounts; read/calculate carefully.
10 poor = 3 days fast or 3.33 poor persons/day not 1 person/day!
589 ... so reparation its provide sustenance tentet (10 group) poor from of moderate what thou feeding families yours or clothe them or liberate neck (i.e. slave) so who not find so fast/abstinence trio days ...
584 so who not find so fast/abstinence shahrayni/lunar cycles two successive two from before that touch dual so who not is able so provide sustenance sixty poor of
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The main question is this you awake alone on remote island or middle of desert.
Without knowing the date/year and no one to help -- which month is Ramadan?
Similar to sleepers awakening in the cave...
1811 so strike we of on ears theirs in the cave years number of 1812 furthermore raised we them to know/make evident which the parties two calculates they to what stays they duration of
These are plausible solutions...
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count 12 full moons after two equinoxes when day and night are equal length; skip occasional 13th
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count 12 full moons after winter solstice shortest day or summer longest day; skip occasional 13th
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Ramadan always first new month after full moon of summer solstice
i.e. count 12 full moons skip occasional 13th as shown with perf 558
new # full moon year
Jan 6 6 Jan 21 642
Feb 5 7 Feb 20
Mar 6 8 Mar 22
Apr 5 9 Apr 20
May 4 10 May 19
Jun 3 11 Jun 18
Jul 2 12 Jul 17
Aug 1 Ramadan Aug 15
Aug 31 2 Sep 14
Sep 29 3 Oct 13
Oct 29 4 Nov 12
Nov 27 5 Dec 12
Dec 27 6 Jan 10 643
Jan 25 7 Feb 9
Feb 24 8 Mar 11
Mar 25 9 Apr 10
Apr 24 10 May 9
May 23 11 Jun 7
Jun 21 12 Jul 7
Jul 21 Ramadan Aug 5
Aug 20 2 Sep 3
Sep 18 3 Oct 3
Oct 18 4 Nov 1
Nov 17 5 Dec 1
Dec 16 6 Dec 31
Jan 15 7 Jan 29 644
Feb 13 8 Feb 28
Mar 14 9 Mar 29
Apr 12 10 Apr 27
May 11 11 May 27
Jun 10 12 Jun 25
Jul 9 Ramadan Jul 25
Aug 8 2 Aug 23
Sep 6 3 Sep 21
Oct 6 4 Oct 21
Nov 5 5 Nov 19
Dec 5 6 Dec 19
Jan 3 7 Jan 17 645
Feb 2 8 Feb 16
Mar 3 9 Mar 18
Apr 2 10 Apr 16
May 1 11 May 16
May 30 12 Jun 15
Jun 29 13 skip Jul 14
Jul 28 Ramadan Aug 13
Aug 27 2 Sep 11
Sep 25 3 Oct 11
Oct 25 4 Nov 9
Nov 24 5 Dec 8
Dec 24 6 Jan 7
Jan 22 7 Feb 5 646
Feb 21 8 Mar 7
Mar 22 9 Apr 5
Apr 21 10 May 5
May 20 11 Jun 4
Jun 18 12 Jul 3
Jul 18 Ramadan Aug 2
Aug 16 2 Sep 1
Sep 15 3 Sep 30
Oct 14 4 Oct 30
Nov 13 5 Nov 28
Dec 13 6 Dec 28
Jan 11 7 Jan 26 647
Feb 10 8 Feb 24
Mar 12 9 Mar 26
Apr 10 10 Apr 24
May 10 11 May 24
Jun 8 12 Jun 22
Jul 7 Ramadan Jul 22 -
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Peace, Noon.
- Ramadan always first new month after full moon of summer solstice
Yes, this is the very truth.
false crescent???..hot crescent/full moon
16 June 2015???..16 June 2015/30 June
05 June 2016???..05 July 2016/19 July
26 May 2017???..23 June 2017/07 July
16 May 2018??.?12 June 2018/27 June
05 May 2019..?.?.01 July 2019/16 July-------1-----------2--------3-------4--------5--------6--------7-----------8-----------9-------10-------11------12-------13
16 Jun 2015-15 Jul-13 Aug-12 Sep-11 Oct-10 Nov-09 Dec-08 Jan 2016-07 Feb-08 Mar-07 Apr-07 May-05 June
05 Jul?The crescent of 05 June is full moon on 19 June
which rises before the longest daytime (June 21),
so it does not belong to the real shahr ramadan.The crescents, quarter moons, gibbouses, full moons?
which Allah ordained (3639) on the day He created the skies and the earth (936)
rise only in their fixed seasons of the solar year.Shahr ramadan/hot moon
rises in hot summer,
it never rises in cold winter.As I tried to explain before,
man can never postpone the 13th moon IN THE SKY because his hands can never reach there.
But they managed to do that ON PAPER which is falsely called islamic calendar-------1-----------2--------3-------4--------5--------6--------7-----------8-----------9-------10-------11------12-------13
16 Jun 2015-15 Jul-13 Aug-12 Sep-11 Oct-10 Nov-09 Dec-08 Jan 2016-07 Feb-08 Mar-07 Apr-07 May-
05 June-05 Jul? -
Salamu alaykum Noon,
Ok I see your conundrum now. However, if you wake up on a deserted island with no one that knows about Ramadan, then how would you know about the Qur'an in the first place to even care one way or the other?
Again, I think some of us are reading too much into this. Remember some verses are clear and some are allegorical, don't take the allegorical verses over the clear ones is my advice.
As far as 2183-4 and 584 go, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on interpretations here Noon, as it seems clear to me that the expiation for not fasting one day is feeding one poor person.
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
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Ok I see your conundrum now. However, if you wake up on a deserted island with no one that knows about Ramadan, then how would you know about the Qur'an in the first place to even care one way or the other?
peace clash,
not my conundrum; again see cave example or let's place you along with other imams or 1,000 "scholars" whoever in a deep sleep/comma then awake you on some remote island or in middle of desert; we can give you any hadith books along with Qu'ran, etc. not tell you date/year or tell you wrong date/year ask you et al which month is ramadan? They'll all be clueless!
Again, I think some of us are reading too much into this. Remember some verses are clear and some are allegorical, don't take the allegorical verses over the clear ones is my advice.
As far as 2183-4 and 584 go, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on interpretations here Noon, as it seems clear to me that the expiation for not fasting one day is feeding one poor person.
nothing allegorical about clear verses and again you made an assumption "feed one poor per day" is not stated.
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Yes, this is the very truth.
peace brook, yes see below Ramadan (RMD) 1st new month after summer solstice full moon either hemisphere.
http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases2001.html
summer solstice June 20-22 northern hemisphere
new shr# full moon year
Dec 29 6 Jan 12 2017
Jan 28 7 Feb 11
Feb 26 8 Mar 12
Mar 28 9 Apr 11
Apr 26 10 May 10
May 25 11 Jun 9
Jun 24 12 Jul 9
Jul 23 RMD Aug 7 (start fast new crescent ~July 24/25)
Aug 21 2 Sep 6
Sep 20 3 Oct 5
Oct 19 4 Nov 4
Nov 18 5 Dec 3
Dec 18 6 Jan 2 2018
Jan 17 7 Jan 31
Feb 15 8 Mar 2
Mar 17 9 Mar 31
Apr 16 10 Apr 30
May 15 11 May 29
Jun 13 12 Jun 28
Jul 13 RMD Jul 27
Aug 11 2 Aug 26
Sep 9 3 Sep 25
Oct 9 4 Oct 24
Nov 7 5 Nov 23
Dec 7 6 Dec 22
Jan 6 7 Jan 21 2019
Feb 4 8 Feb 19
Mar 6 9 Mar 21
Apr 5 10 Apr 19
May 4 11 May 18
Jun 3 12 Jun 17
Jul 2 13 skip Jul 16
Aug 1 RMD Aug 15
Aug 30 2 Sep 14
Sep 28 3 Oct 13
Oct 28 4 Nov 12
Nov 26 5 Dec 12
Dec 26 6 Jan 10 2020
Jan 24 7 Feb 9summer solstice Dec 20-23 southern hemisphere
new shr# full moon year
Dec 29 12 Jan 12 2017
Jan 28 RMD Feb 11 (start fast new crescent ~Jan 29/30)
Feb 26 2 Mar 12
Mar 28 3 Apr 11
Apr 26 4 May 10
May 25 5 Jun 9
Jun 24 6 Jul 9
Jul 23 7 Aug 7
Aug 21 8 Sep 6
Sep 20 9 Oct 5
Oct 19 10 Nov 4
Nov 18 11 Dec 3
Dec 18 12 Jan 2 2018
Jan 17 RMD Jan 31
Feb 15 2 Mar 2
Mar 17 3 Mar 31
Apr 16 4 Apr 30
May 15 5 May 29
Jun 13 6 Jun 28
Jul 13 7 Jul 27
Aug 11 8 Aug 26
Sep 9 9 Sep 25
Oct 9 10 Oct 24
Nov 7 11 Nov 23
Dec 7 12 Dec 22
Jan 6 RMD Jan 21 2019
Feb 4 2 Feb 19
Mar 6 3 Mar 21
Apr 5 4 Apr 19
May 4 5 May 18
Jun 3 6 Jun 17
Jul 2 7 Jul 16
Aug 1 8 Aug 15
Aug 30 9 Sep 14
Sep 28 10 Oct 13
Oct 28 11 Nov 12
Nov 26 12 Dec 12
Dec 26 13 skip Jan 10 2020
Jan 24 RMD Feb 92185 shahru/lunar cycle ramadan (heat) the one descends in it the Qur?an guidance to the humankind and clear signs from the guidance and the criterion so who witness among you l-shahra/the lunar cycle so should abstained it and who be illness of or on journey so count from days another intends the god with you the ease and not intends with you the hardship and to complete ye of l-idata/the count and to magnify ye of the god on what guide you and that may you thanks giving
936 indeed iddata/count l-shuhri/the lunar cycles near/with the god two dual ten (twelve) shahran/lunar cycle of in book the god day creation the heavens and the land therein quartet prohibit such the creed the value so not thou wrong ye of in them souls yours and fight ye of the idolaters all like/as what fighting you all and know ye of that the god with the righteous
937 only the postponement increase in the disregard misguided in it the ones disregard they of allowing it Aama/year of and prohibiting it Aama/year of to adjust count what prohibit the god so allow they of what prohibit the god beautified for them evil deeds theirs and the god not guided the folk the skeptics
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An ultimatum from Allah and his messenger
to the polytheists
with whom you have made a treaty (91)"Travel freely in the land FOUR MOONS." (92).
The ultimatum was declared
on the day when the believers entered Mecca to take their town back from the polytheists,
that is, June 16 of 630?s shahr ramadan.New moon? full moon
June 16???June 30http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases0601.html
The reason why
the conqurers had to concede to a treaty of ceasefire
was thisIt was rather a short time before Mecca?s traditional feast days-hijaj (2827),
so the sellers had started to prepare their stalls and early comers were everywhere.
If the ceasefire were denied,
they might have been unwittingly trampled upon (4825).And on the day of the great pilgrimage
an announcement to the people from Allah and his mesenger
"If you repent, it is best for you?" (93).That was Dhul Hijjah,
second of the FOUR MOONS mentioned in 92,
and it was the time to perform the religious rites called hajj,
pilgrimage.Mecca?s commercial feasts and pilgrimage
were simultaneous,
and they happened at the same area.However,
you could not perform pilgrimage
during Dhul Hijjah (2196)When the FORBIDDEN moons have passed
kill the polytheists wherever you find them
(95).The FOUR MOONS are over,
so kill them
or they will kill you.When you meet the polythesits,
strike the necks until you overcome them.
Then tie them fast (474).To sum up
1
The four forbidden months are successive,
They are not
3 together and 1? months apart.2
In the forbiddend moons
it is forbidden
to shed blood, hunting wild animals included (51-2, 595).3
Of the 4 forbidden moons
the first is Shahr Ramadan, hot moon
the scond is Dhul Hijjah, hajj moon. -
To sum up
1
The four forbidden months are successive,
They are not
3 together and 1? months apart.Peace brook, yes there's an obvious difference between quartet (i.e. 4 group/together) and four (the number 4)...
92 so move about in the land quartet (i.e. group/together) ashhurin/lunar cycles and know ye of indeed you other than escape the god and that the god shames the skeptics
936 indeed iddata/count l-shuhri/the lunar cycles near/with the god two dual ten (twelve) shahran/lunar cycle of in book the god day creation the heavens and the land therein quartet (group) urumun/prohibit
244 and the ones accusing the guarded (f/p) furthermore not comes they of with quartet (group) witnesses
246 and the ones accusing spouses theirs and not that be for them witnesses except souls theirs so affirmation one of them four (4) affirmations in/by the god indeed he surely from the truthful
248 and it prevents upon her the punishment that she witness four (4) affirmations in/by the god that he to from the liars
http//oi66.tinypic.com/5xrl1x.jpg
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Salamu Alaykum Farati,
Don't let people get you confused. Ramadan is very clear, 30 days of fasting, dawn to dusk starting on Friday night 5/26 where I live insha'Allah this year of 2017. Fast with all of us! Do not be afraid. Once you fast a number of times you will see why this challenge is so good for all of us. Fasting will decrease the speed of your metabolism, which will allow you to eat less and use what you eat more efficiently throughout the year.
Decreasing the speed of your metabolism is not a good thing at all. It is a major cause of excess fat weight and loss of muscle tissue. Granted, we have to admit that fasting has its physiological importance in short term. But on a long term, diminishing returns set in. This is because long-term fasting can either result in significant decrease or increase in calorie ingested, two paths to increase body fat storage and weight gain.
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Completely disagree Neptim. A slow metabolism is great, as long as you do not eat too much. Really Ramadan in a sense trains you to not be such an over-consumer, as many people are today. It is a true blessing from God that he has given us this month to fast; I truly suggest you all fast it as prescribed.
"To manage your weight with a slow metabolism, you must lower your calorie intake. This could be beneficial, however. Calorie restriction can slow the aging process, help prevent diabetes, abdominal obesity, hypertension and cardiovascular disease and reduce your risk of certain cancers, according to the Federation of European Biochemical Societies" http//healthyeating.sfgate.com/advantages-slow-metabolism-9657.html
"Thyroid hormone plays a big role in regulating your metabolism and energy expenditure, and low levels of thyroid hormones correlate with a slow metabolism. A study published in a 2010 edition of "The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism" found that low thyroid activity correlates with an increased life expectancy. This could be due to the fact that with a faster metabolism, the body must work harder, putting it under more stress, notes obesity expert Dr. Joel Fuhrman." http//healthyeating.sfgate.com/advantages-slow-metabolism-9657.html
God is helping you live longer by completing the month of fasting for Ramadan, that is why he says "Fasting is better for, if you only knew".
Best regards and Salaam,
Clash.
