Kaba Corruption
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Peace.
Brother Noah put up the following in the thread http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3404 many thnks to him for doing so. . I hope he doesn't mind it being put here as well.
http//www.imagerely.com/imagehost/uimages/11848idol.jpg
In front of the temple stood two huge decorated pillars (1 Kings 715-22; 2 Chron. 37,16-17), which had no specific architectural purpose.23 They did, however, have symbolic meaning, for they were called 'Jachin', ('God founds') and 'Boas' ('He comes in power.'), expressing God' nature artistically and symbolically.24 Symbols play an important role in Biblical revelation25 and, as a result, have continually served as inspiration for art. The language of art is the language of symbols.
This might be shaping it a but, but i got it off a christian site. Researchers such as Jordan Maxwell claims that the original meaning was, jachin "God makes him firm" and boas "eagerness, strenght". And in that perspective, the pillars does remind of an old representation of the male fallic. That in cultures through out the world has been represented with 2 pillars. The egyptians at one point believed the sky rested on two such fallic pillars. The symbol is often used at doors, pointed doors. Now that we may have an idea of what they in reality represent to those that knows, what do you think the door in the middle. The pointy door in the middle of the two male fallics may represent?
http//www.wissenschaftliches-bildarchiv.de/Graphik/D006/001/Miniaturen/D006-001-G001.jpg
http//www.arch.montana.edu/classes/arch322/Images/Islamic/[email protected]
THANKS NOAH! YOU ROCK!
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The following are extracts from http//www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0001/ET25-5336.html (A Hindu Website - now they want to claim owner ship of the cube idol!)
The ancient Vedic scripture Harihareswar Mahatmya mentions that Lord Vishnu's footprints are consecrated in Mecca.
The allusion is to the Vamana incarnation of Lord Vishnu whose blessed feet were consecrated at three holy sites, namely Gaya, Mecca and Shukla Teertha. Worshipping such carved, holy foot impressions is a holy Vedic custom which convert Muslims are inadvertently perpetuating. But in doing this they delude themselves and mislead others that these foot-impressions which are on reverential display in several mosques and tombs around the world are in fact Muhammad's own. There are several snags in this argument. Firstly worshipping a foot -impression amounts to idolatry and should therefore be taboo for a true Muslim.
The famous Black Stone is none other than the ShivLing of Makkeshwar alias Mecca. Lord Shiva is always shown with a crescent Moon on his head and every Shiva temple is supposed to have a sacred water spring representing the Ganges. The Crescent Moon pinnacle of the Kaba and the Zamzam spring (actually Zamza from Ganga) are irrefutable testaments to the Vedic origins of the Kaba.
V interesting, no?
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Saw these, thought they're good pics to share. They don't mean anything really...
http//homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/zamzam-cola-01.jpg
Maybe carbonation and artificial sweeteners make the water holier...
http//usspogy647.com/albums/Pogy-92-to-96/zamzam.jpg
And muslim food is... chicken... hmm...
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peace be upon you natu,
I d/led a file from aidid safar's site that has a lot of interesting information about the origins of the kaaba, i'm not sure if you already put any of it in this thread or not but d/l it here, I like all the new stuff he has added to his site
http//www.aididsafar.com/cube.zip
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The following from the site...
http//www.crystalinks.com/blackstone.html
Deities of other cultures known to have been associated with stones include Aphrodite at Paphos, Cybele at Pessinus and later Rome, Astarte at Byblos and the famous Artemis/Diana of Ephesus. The latter's most ancient sculpture was, it is said, carved from a black meteorite.
The earliest form of Cybele's name may have been Kubaba or Kumbaba which suggests Humbaba, who was the guardian of the forest in the Epic of Gilgamesh (the world's oldest recorded myth from Assyria of c.2500BCE and, as scholars reveal more of the text, increasingly the source of most of the major mythological themes of later civilizations. The origin of Kubaba may have been kube or kuba meaning 'cube'.
The earliest reference we have to a goddess worshipped as a cube-shaped stone is from neolithic Anatolia. Alternatively, 'Kubaba' may mean a hollow vessel or cave - which would still be a supreme image of the goddess. The ideograms for Kubaba in the Hittite alphabet are a lozenge or cube, a double-headed axe, a dove, a vase and a door or gate - all images of the goddess in neolithic Europe.
The stone associated with Cybele's worship was, originally, probably at Pessinus but perhaps at Pergamum or on Mount Ida. What is certain is that in 204 BCE it was taken to Rome, where Cybele became 'Mother' to the Romans. The ecstatic rites of her worship were alien to the Roman temperament, but nevertheless animated the streets of their city during the annual procession of the goddess's statue. Alongside Isis, Cybele retained prominence in the heart of the Empire until the fifth century CE; the stone was then lost. Her cult prospered throughout the Empire and it is said that every town or village remained true to the worship of Cybele.
The home of Aphrodite was at Paphos on Cyprus. Various Classical writers describe the rituals which went on her in her honour - these seem to include the practice which is now known by the disdainful term of 'sacred prostitution'. In any event, the tapering black stone which was the object of verneration at this Temple still survives, even if it now placed inside the site musuem.
Also on Cyprus is another highly venerated iIslamic site - the third most important after Mecca and Medina - the Hala Sultan Tekke. This, too, has a black rock, said to have fallen as a meteorite as part of the tritholon over the shrine. The shrine is to a woman - the aunt and foster mother of Prophet Mohammed. Could this, like Mecca, have been originally a goddess shrine? Unfortunately no other clues are forthcoming.
There allegedly is a Black Stone at Petra.
Numerous standing stones in the British Isles are reputed to have fallen from the stars. The now-lost Star Stone marked the meeting of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire; an also-vanished stone at Grimston, Leicestershire, was also said to have such an origin.
V interesting, no?
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Peace idris - I'll check them out now, thanks.
From the following site
http//szen.frens.net/archives/categories/articles/
http//szen.frens.net/archives/Datuk%20Awang-s.JPG
Datuk Awang Temple- An idol dressed in Muslim clothes in a mosque like structure with joss sticks burning in front of the altar
The highlight of the trip to the Koay Jetty for me was seeing this alter. Those that are familiar with the Muslim and Buddhist believe can take note of the uniqueness of the presence of both religions in one altar. This altar broke so many boundaries in my understanding of religions.
I don't know what to take from this one to be honest... I think it was someone very confused who made it.
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Peace, Im back with more
From http//www.therefinersfire.org/mecca.htm
Kaba is a cubic shrine in the middle of the city of Mecca. The shrine is covered by an expensive dark cloth made out of silk and satin, embroidered with golden koranic verses (and decorated by gems). On one of the corners of Kaba, there is a black stone covered by gold. This stone looks like a kind of meteor that can be found in the asteroid belt. The room inside Kaba is a forbidden place to visit. Only the king of the nation, the Imam (priests) of the city, and on rare occasions Muslim kings and princess are allowed to enter that room, (Nobody else knows what is displayed in its interior).
V interesting, no?
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Peace
Good on you Natu. Just keep digging. I do not claim to know excactly what the symbols are, but by looking at other cultures through history i can get an idea of what they definately ISNT!.
regards
Noah -
Salam all..
Nice effort to unravel the truths about Ka'ba.. but i m wondering how authentic and reliable can these proofs and sources be ?
Regards,
Truth.Seeker -
Peace
What would you call authentic and reliable. by what definition should we know such terms?
regards
Noah -
Salam Noah,
What would you call authentic and reliable. by what definition should we know such terms?
Well.. that is what I am confused about. When I read AididSafar's book, i had checked these things, but I was/am unsure about how to deal with these information, what is the criterion to decide whether a piece of information (historic) may be authentic, reliable ?
Regards,
truth.seeker -
Peace truth seeker
Well, the conclution i have come to so far is that history as it is tought is a lie. However, there have been good people throughout history who tried to enlighten people, only most of those were burned at the stake.
It is tricky, the only criteria i have avaible is to try and look at who said it, what theyre motifs might be and thats it. thats all any of us have to go by.One researcher i quote like is Jordan Maxwell. We do not draw the same conclutions, but are roughly on the same page. He is worth listening too, if you keep in mind that he wants to resell the new testament, aswell as inform.
So he has a conflict of interrest, but his research however is groundbreaking.Regards
Noah -
This is all interesting, but the possibility still exists that the Kabaa was made by Abraham and the people later fell into idolatry.
The possibility still exists that it wasn't built by Abraham too!
What I find interesting is the way you worded your post. 'Fell' into idolatry - isn't that exactly what people do when they fall prostrate to the kaba. But looking from far at the idea of prostrating to anything, be it a car or a building, their is something fishy going on... and considering the fact that we can even be idolising our own egos, I think we need to be very careful when we prostrate to something... thats my personal view anyway.
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The possibility still exists that it wasn't built by Abraham too!
Khi- Salam. Yes n tht shld be our main focus. We can easily disprove the Kaaba in SAudi 2day is not the Masjidul Haraam n Al-Kaaba as mentioned in the Quran by showing tht these were NOT the names of tht place in Mecca BE4 THE TIME OF THE PROPHET. Tht wld mean ppl later adjusted the places names according 2 Quranic terms 2 suit them. Uptil now this has not been shown.
What I find interesting is the way you worded your post. 'Fell' into idolatry - isn't that exactly what people do when they fall prostrate to the kaba. But looking from far at the idea of prostrating to anything, be it a car or a building, their is something fishy going on... and considering the fact that we can even be idolising our own egos, I think we need to be very careful when we prostrate to something... thats my personal view anyway.
Khi- Here ive 2 diagree with u. Prostrating be4 something other than GOD cannot be idol worship sicne the angels, except Ibless, prostrated be4 Adam, a human by GOD's own command. So is GOD commanding idol worship. Also Josephs family prostrated be4 him
He raised his parents upon the throne. They fell prostrate before him. ...
So we see tht prostrating be4 someone besides GOD cannot be considered idol worship. Now as far as the Kaaba is concerned tht is considered only a focal pt of salat. Nobody icluding fanatic sunnis n shias worships the Kaaba during salat. Ofcourse kissing the black stone IN THE HOPE TO ATTAIN SALVATION i.e. the real idol worship. As a Qiblah it is only considered a disciplinary act 2 focus towards it. GOD Bless!