Religous Pluralism
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The Quran never uses "madhab" but rather "deen."
this "madhab" of Islam we see today causing all the violence (WHICH STUPID MUSLIMS AND LIBERALS IGNORE brickwall brickwall )
ahem anyway I think we agree it was never authorized by god.
I always wondered, why just people of the book?
Look at buddhism. COMPARATIVELY so peaceful. So many other religions are loving and nice, so much more peaceful (compared to the desert trilogy).
However like Islam is not a "madhab" neither should they have been, as god would not authorize divisions and bloodshed, hence people were corrupted from the true DEEN to the MADHAB.That being said the remnants of peace remain. I know many will disagree with me, and call this vehemently wrong,but all religions on earth were indirectly sent by god. Albeit they were not religions, allah was sending a "system"/deen of of peacemaking, that got corrupted and turned into religions. This includes the quran ofc its interpretation (or it itself depending on your perspective) being corrupted to the oppressive cult we see today called Islam.
There is one thing that bugs me. The quran says that he will not forgive mushrik and put them in fire forever (I cant remember but thats what the ayat said.) So billions of people in eternal fire for simply not believing = rahman raheem god? -X -\ -\ -\ -X nope....
How do you guys reconcile with that?
This place is truly called FREE MINDS. Ive seen it. Its suhoor and I was up all night reading posts about the validity of the text of the quran. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to my fitrah. So I reconcile it. pr ! -
The Quran never uses "madhab" but rather "deen."
this "madhab" of Islam we see today causing all the violence (WHICH STUPID MUSLIMS AND LIBERALS IGNORE brickwall brickwall )
ahem anyway I think we agree it was never authorized by god.
I always wondered, why just people of the book?
Look at buddhism. COMPARATIVELY so peaceful. So many other religions are loving and nice, so much more peaceful (compared to the desert trilogy).
However like Islam is not a "madhab" neither should they have been, as god would not authorize divisions and bloodshed, hence people were corrupted from the true DEEN to the MADHAB.That being said the remnants of peace remain. I know many will disagree with me, and call this vehemently wrong,but all religions on earth were indirectly sent by god. Albeit they were not religions, allah was sending a "system"/deen of of peacemaking, that got corrupted and turned into religions. This includes the quran ofc its interpretation (or it itself depending on your perspective) being corrupted to the oppressive cult we see today called Islam.
There is one thing that bugs me. The quran says that he will not forgive mushrik and put them in fire forever (I cant remember but thats what the ayat said.) So billions of people in eternal fire for simply not believing = rahman raheem god? -X -\ -\ -\ -X nope....
How do you guys reconcile with that?
This place is truly called FREE MINDS. Ive seen it. Its suhoor and I was up all night reading posts about the validity of the text of the quran. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to my fitrah. So I reconcile it. pr !Wow....
Its one thing to admit the enormous cracks in the ideologies of Sunnis and Shiites. No they are not following the Quran but they follow the word of some cultural folk in the Middle East who want to propagate their culture and their ideas instead of Islam.However, to say that Buddhism is even "COMPARATIVELY so peaceful" is incorrect to say the least.
Did you forget about the Buddhist genocide of Rohingya people in Burma/Myanmar?
Did you not note the words of the UN about this genocide?
Here is a relatively tame article that comes up on a Google search
http//www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/burma-rohingya-muslim-babies-children-slaughtered-knives-massacre-genocide-un-warns-a7561711.htmlLook at Modhi's India - how he is using Hinduism to create divide and hate - you can find the Hindu-inspired massacres of Muslims if you care to look. Then look at the issue of Kashmir and how religion is being used there by the Hindus as well as by the Muslims.
Look at the way Israel uses Judaism to run a concentration camp for Palestinians in Gaza and justify the existence of European people on a corner of the Arabian Peninsula (the penultimate Crusade is how I see it) and treat Arab Palestinians like animals.
Sikhs themselves pride themselves on being "soldiers" and there has been plenty of Sikh terrorism against Indians - but they are relatively small as a group.
Whenever you look at religion or God-less atheist ideologies and objectively compare the hatred in each one, it is directly proportional to the number of men and technological advantages they have.
So lets not even attempt to use the word COMPARATIVELY. to describe ALL MAN-MADE IDEOLOGIES who are ALL MURDEROUS.
Mass murders are mass murders whether by Buddhists or by Saudi Arabian inspired Sunni Terrorists or Iranian inspired Shia Terrorists - ALL of this is by men who want to control more and more land using religion.
They are able to do so because ALL religion has been corrupted by men.Now, just to drum home the part about the idea of COMPARATIVELY, what kind of an ideology is it that has carried out the most genocides?
It is the ideology of White Supremacism - the ideology that equates white skin with a supposed race and then uses it to mass murder whole nations and races on Earth.
So comparatively speaking lets talk about all those races that have been almost wiped out or at least, completely castrated.
You can replace "White Supremacism" with Christianity if that aids in the comparative trilogy analysis about which man-made ideology is more comparatively murderous.Compare this sickening history with today, where the Western nations are funding Saudi Arabia and its backward "Islamic" ideology to brain-wash young Sunni children to become the next generation of suicide bombers.
The West is supporting terrorists to destroy Syria - then those terrorists are coming back here to the West and murdering more innocent people.
The West is supporting terrorists to destroy Libya - the prevailing lunacy here means that even if you remind them that they illegally invaded and destroyed Libya or even Syria - and thereby empowered numerous fanatical extremist terrorists, they will say you are justifying terrorism.
This is completely SICK when the West not only justified terrorism in the countries it destroyed, but actually used those fanatical extremists and funded them to commit terrorism.
The only unintended by-product is that these terrorists are now murdering our own white folk and as we all know the currency of the West is that the value of one White person equates with a thousand non-white people - that's why no one here in our so-called, 24-hr surveilled/controlled, democracy cares when thousands of brown babies are murdered in Syria or Libya by Western bombs and Western supported Terrorists (who one day are called FSA and then the next day ISIS). Oh, the naive, yet murderous hypocrisy!If you see Hell fire as an alternative existence to the existence in paradise and God's condition in ALL his books has been that if you accept God you enter HIS eternal home, then there is no reconciling to be then in my view. One does not need to exclude that God will forgive who he wants to - he is the ALL-FORGIVING.
If one accepts God's word, then one will behave modestly and reflect and meditate - and connect with his creator (whatever the religion) - thereby not abusing other people or being unfair to other people - why should someone who behaves fairly by following the word of his creator be on an equal footing with someone who is unjust and wants to create and worship his own fantasies of dominance and control over others?
Personally, for me, it is not just Muslims who will enter Paradise. God will Judge. There are many people who worship God alone and act just, whatever their "religion" - it is not for me to judge that they will not enter Paradise.
Did you say the Quran has been corrupted? Please could you clarify?
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This is what I don't understand.
You say no, not all non muslims will go to hell, whereas the quran CLEARLY SAYS mushrik will be unforgivable? Are you going against the quran? How does a merciful god send people to eternal hell for just not believing in him?
There have been so many good , peaceful , just mushrik. It's quite apathetic to say they are "unjust" because of their "beliefs"?
Is there no possibility that part was corrupted by pagans? The whole concept of hell fire sounds so paganish. I'm not sure about you but I've seen free minders here accept that idea.
COMPARATIVELY SLIMLY ATOMS DIFFERENCE
BUT yeah all were corrupted, though god sent underpinnings of light in all.
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This is what I don't understand.
You say no, not all non muslims will go to hell, whereas the quran CLEARLY SAYS mushrik will be unforgivable? Are you going against the quran? How does a merciful god send people to eternal hell for just not believing in him?
There have been so many good , peaceful , just mushrik. It's quite apathetic to say they are "unjust" because of their "beliefs"?
Is there no possibility that part was corrupted by pagans? The whole concept of hell fire sounds so paganish. I'm not sure about you but I've seen free minders here accept that idea.
COMPARATIVELY SLIMLY ATOMS DIFFERENCE
BUT yeah all were corrupted, though god sent underpinnings of light in all.
So you are saying the Quran is corrupted?
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I'm not making any statements.
The users here who inspired me this aren't active anynore, I wish they were.
Putting aside the external and internal evidences, they're always things in the quran that make my moral compass uneasy. I've tried to reconcile with all of them...so many times....but it leads me to one conclusion I've found evidence for.
Ofc don't reply if you don't agree, it's a matter of insight and what my soul finds rest on.
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There is one thing that bugs me. The quran says that he will not forgive mushrik and put them in fire forever (I cant remember but thats what the ayat said.) So billions of people in eternal fire for simply not believing = rahman raheem god? -X -\ -\ -\ -X nope....
How do you guys reconcile with that?Indeed mushriks are the hosts of the Fire. They mix (shirk in Arabic) divine truth with false teachings.
So they cannot be successfull and they stay in a state of spiritual confusion, trapped in ivory tower, which is exactly the definition of Fire according to verse 2.17
217 Their example is like the one who lights a fire, so when it illuminates what is around him, God takes away his light and leaves him in the darkness not seeing.
An illustration of this situation happens in nations where priesthood has power on the minds. Priests are those that perform this mixing, and lead astray those who listen to them.
This is what Quran says, and this is what can be observed in practice, nations where truth is mixed with falsehood are dictatorships and are the illustration of Hell.
It is interesting to notice that successfull nations are Western nations, exactly those who managed to get rid of priesthood influence on civil affairs, and let reason and scientific process have priority over religion, or ideology.
This is an application of Abraham's way of life675 And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty.
676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "I do not like those who disappear."
677 So when he saw the moon rising, he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "If my Lord does not guide me, then I will be among the wicked people!"
678 So when he saw the sun rising, he said "This is my Lord, this is bigger." But when it disappeared he said "My people, I am innocent of what you have set up."Unfortunately, it may not last, because any creation has an end, and a new one must take place.
Compare this sickening history with today, where the Western nations are funding Saudi Arabia and its backward "Islamic" ideology to brain-wash young Sunni children to become the next generation of suicide bombers.
The West is supporting terrorists to destroy Syria - then those terrorists are coming back here to the West and murdering more innocent people.So is it the fault of West if Muslim countries are in Hell ?
People who do not assume their responsabilities and constantly reject the fault of their situation on the others will never be successfull.
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Gen statement;
I will always be a muslim/peacemaker and be in the deen/system of islam/peacemaking. Glad that won't ever change yay
I do believe god/allah. Although I don't understand his nature, and evil in relation to god. The quran, all abrahamic faiths, they paint a picture of this god who....well...is wrathful. This, and many external and internal evidences have led me to the conclusion of possible tamperment of the quran to paint this wrathful god. Simply to push followers away. I urge you all to think. When many people leave a religion, they go to athiesm. Because they can't reconcile with god, because the god they know isn't god, but god the religion , and the Holy books painted. Satan the controller wanted this, so I'm not above thinking he tampered with the text, just as I mentioned every other holy text was tampered with to form the religions we see today.
This sub has so many open minded users, many have inspired me to that. I'm sad to see all their accounts are dormant. I certainly don't want to start any debates with anyone who isn't free minded so I'll probably stay silent until they come back.
P.S shout out to reel and the wise huruf for being so awesome ignore ignore
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I'm not making any statements.
The users here who inspired me this aren't active anynore, I wish they were.
Putting aside the external and internal evidences, they're always things in the quran that make my moral compass uneasy. I've tried to reconcile with all of them...so many times....but it leads me to one conclusion I've found evidence for.
Ofc don't reply if you don't agree, it's a matter of insight and what my soul finds rest on.
I have never read your posts and gotten the idea of a person who is afraid to make statements.
Seeing as there is not direct statement but lots of indirect ones, I am reading that you do indeed feel that the Quran is corrupted.
I got that impression from your original posts too but just wanted to be sure.
Do you feel the Bible or Torah are corrupted?
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Who do you mean by mushrik?
The bukhari a and muslim, the fatwa clerks and ulema? Fine, they have done true evil and deserve the worst.
But some random innocent monk who was probably a polytheists because that was his way of life, no, no way does he deserve eternal fire.
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We are again playing with words and as we are duly taught by those who manipulate people to disguise the words of God and disguise reality.
Do we still not understand, tht believing in God and saying that one believe in God are two different things?
Do we still not understand that someboyd for whom the word "God" and "God" itself or Himself are two completely, copletely different things?
Do we still not understnd that when somebody who does not know what God is and merely understands the vision of God transmitted by other people who say they believe in God, but really think of their own idea of God?
How can that fabricate believers and disbelievers? How can anybody who "does nto believe in God, an be a musrik that is giver partners to God?
All this are nonsense and smoke and mirrors.
Truth is in the heart, in the downright goodness and belief in Justice which do we forget that it is a name og GOd, Al 3adl?
Do we think our whims are a description or definition of God?
Noody, nobody can name anybody else believer or disbelievers.
We do have at times, when very grave decisions have to be made, take those decisions trying to get our most honest idea of the motives and truth of others, but that does not make us infallible. We just behave as we can.In view of all this it is nonsense to attribute to God the nonsense we fabricate ourseles.
God, AL 3ADL, aS-Salaam, Al-Haqq, Al Baseer, doe snot need our petty opinions to know to the bottom the truth of avery person, not a catalogue pronnouncement, but the most inner truth and reality of every creature.
May H hay mercy on everyone of us. We will all need it, and may He be most forgiving and and most benevolent.
Salaam
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So is it the fault of West if Muslim countries are in Hell ?
People who do not assume their responsabilities and constantly reject the fault of their situation on the others will never be successfull.
So by this hateful logic, why is the West so keen to have a piece of this so called "hell" and to plant Europeans on a corner of it and call it Israel?
Do you agree it is hateful to taint all "Muslim" countries as being in hell?
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All religious books are corrupted, IMO. As much as I see wisdom quran, some of it is DEFINATELY divine, I simply can't accept it's infallibility. It doesn't matter how many multiple meanings, a raheem god would not have put 434 in, and let countless women suffer by it. Ofcourse if that is my reasoning I wonder why god let it be corrupted.... again, I'm studying the nature of god and trying to learn.
And I've gotten the impression from you that you're not very nice ignore
Joking joking joking......
Although I wish some of the older users were here, what they said was truly thought provoking and got me to think. Sigh I should have waited for them to be online again before making this post, ah I suppose I'll just stay silent now.
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Huruf sun sun sun sun sun
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And I've gotten the impression from you that you're not very nice ignore
Joking joking joking......
Surely, one cannot constantly make statements and say those who are not in agreement are not nice.... even if one says it is a "joke".
I have only attempted to draw your previous views on whether the Quran is faithful or corrupted.
As such, I am actually unsure why some posters on this forum claim to be Quran-only muslims (or hide what they are) when they are clearly averse to Islam and the Quran-only view.
My personal view is that it is that the Quran is faithful and a preserved message from God.
As this portal is a portal for many non-Muslims to come and discuss the Quran-only perspectives, I find it strange that there are views of some who claim to be Quran-only muslims (apparently) who say the Quran is actually corrupt.
Ie, is that really being a Quran only muslim?
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peace baitachal,
434 The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright females are dutiful; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those females from whom you fear desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate from them. If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is Most High, Great.
from the lens of women , it seems unfair
from the lens of men , it seems (fair) only if he is in a situation when wife is cheating with him and poor husband suddenly get to know about it.i wish god never put any men on this situation.. i am a man and i experience this situation in lot of cases and i feel more confident that this book is exactly from God...
only a test of fire make fine steel
this verse is not for any women , this is for the poor husband..
this verse is not about women and man its about husband and wife..
when comes to mother and father (i wonder why womens didnt think islam(peacemaking) advise kids to pay respect to their mom more than father)the verse is a nightmare for the husbands who have kids and they found out their wife cheating .. (no women can feel it) so these verses are not for womens this verse is for a "cheating wife"..
after that husband life will become hell , he will keep thinking about kids , he will get suspicious either he is a real father of kids , he ll get suspicious about every single move of her wife...
he literally become a living dead .. and the responsible wife just ruined not only the husband life but also the life of kids..and some after shocks.. study shows that 50% kids get physcological disorders in the cases of hus &wife seperation..
cheating wife is a clearly evil creature ...
on the other hand faithful wife is blessing of God and blessing of kids..
look its not about women its about cheating wife..may God protect us all from the evil womens and evil mens.. group
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So by this hateful logic, why is the West so keen to have a piece of this so called "hell" and to plant Europeans on a corner of it and call it Israel?
Do you agree it is hateful to taint all "Muslim" countries as being in hell?
It is not hateful, it is reality as described in Quran, and it is not helpful for people to hide truth to them.
But most people have aversion for truth.Hell and Paradise are not afterlife. People who say that don't read Quran carefully.
Hell and Paradise are states of the nations on Earth.3974 And they said "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the land, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"
It's clear that Paradise is on earth and for those who are entitled to the promise of God.
Is any Muslim country today the land that was promised in this verse ? No way.
I'm sad for people who live in and who believe it's the lobby of Paradise. -
It is not hateful, it is reality as described in Quran, and it is not helpful for people to hide truth to them.
But most people have aversion for truth.Hell and Paradise are not afterlife. People who say that don't read Quran carefully.
Hell and Paradise are states of the nations on Earth.3974 And they said "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the land, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"
It's clear that Paradise is on earth and for those who are entitled to the promise of God.
Is any Muslim country today the land that was promised in this verse ? No way.
I'm sad for people who live in and who believe it's the lobby of Paradise.Oh dear, that's what happens when a hateful person tries to "interpret" the Quran.
I have reported your hateful comments to the moderators.
I guess some right-wing extremists think that where-ever their governments invade and murder innocents and then fire hellfire missiles into becomes hell.
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Oh dear, that's what happens when a hateful person tries to "interpret" the Quran.
I have reported your hateful comments to the moderators.
I guess some right-wing extremists think that where-ever their governments invade and murder innocents and then fire hellfire missiles into becomes hell.
Not only that, EdQ, I like particularly this "pearl"
"Hell and Paradise are states of the nations on Earth."
Talk about collective punishment and how fair it is.
I have to admit that there are posters I just simply do not read, not because they make mad, but because they bore me. Once you have read one of their posts, you have read them all.
Salaam
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Sorry to bore you guys, but collective punishment is clearly mentionned in Quran.
The Thamud, when one killed the camel.
The people of Lot, for whom Abraham tried to intercede without luck.
The people of Pharaoh, called a pervert one.And this verse
1716 And if We wish to destroy a town, We allow its carefree to rule it, so then they commit wickedness in it, so then it deserves the sentence, so then We destroy it completely.Only a few are saved, those people of the House.
Please read Quran with greater care.
And a side note for those who are in perplexity for my speech I'm a quranist, Quran is my book.
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Please read Quran with greater care.
And a side note for those who are in perplexity for my speech I'm a quranist, Quran is my book.
RED exactly handshake
BOLD you should have to say like this i am a peacemaker(muslim with small m) who follow quran as a guidance from God..
there is not any quranist exist in quran in the system (deen)of God..
God bless you