Your stand on alcohol consumption based on Quran

huruf

Alcohol is a collectie evil, it does not matter that we do nothing wrong even though we drink it. If we drink we contribute to others drinking, to the normalisation of alcohol. So indeed we are responsible as members of society.

Again, it is not a question of the button haram or no button at all. Every one knows, every one, every adult, that alcohol is a hard drug that it causes enormous suffering and human and economic losses, so one is not responsible if one does nothing? And how do we know that we will always be like that.

Pig is not near as dangerous as alochol, and one of the reasons is precisely because people do not have to make a will effort not to eat pork but they do have to do it not to drink. Ask any Alcoholic anonymous about it. It is pitiless on the part of those who do not have trouble not drinking to deliberately indicate that it is ok and they will not be judged for it and ignore that for many people that is not so straightforward or easy. It would be of the greatest help to them that alcohol was not so common, so readily available, even so pushed down our throats, so popular and so "inocuous".

Inocuous if you do not get drunk... tell that to those who cannot quit it even though they would like very much to...

Again it is the hardest drug known, may be because of being the most attractive and pleasurable.

The Qur'an seems to waste words at times, because. if it misses the convenient "haram" button, is as it if had said nothing at all.

Pig does not destroy societies, alcohol does, whole societies. So we are comfortable with the work of shaytan, fantastic.

Salaam

imrankhawaja

doing "shirk" also does not harm any society same like pig meat but it is a gross SIN.. isnt it?

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

@OnlyOneGod Have you looked at this topic on previous threads?

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602930

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606121

Based on my study and individual understanding, alcohol is not haram (follow your ~own~ understanding, not mine).

Is there really anything new to be said about this topic? According to the Bible (John 21-11), Jesus (Peace upon all Prophets) turned water to wine. Wine in paradise (4715), wine from grapes (1667), prohibition from praying while "befogged" (443), avoiding Satan (590), endogenous fermentation, natural occurrence of alcohol, water as an intoxicant...all this and more has already been discussed. It's enough to drive a person to drink!

732 Say "Who has made forbidden the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

OnlyOneGod

quran does not say

lie is haram
dishonesty is haram
cheating is haram
robbery is haram

but quran say us to stay away from it .. for our own Good

same thing "ijtanabu" quran used it for alcohol and gambling
we should stay away from it too.. for our own good

although the verse indicate stay away from devil(shaitan)/evil

the word quran use in 2219 is is translated as sin not as "HARM"
in all other occassions this word is understood as "SIN"

so we should avoid sin at any cost..

the catagory is although not like a "PIG" meat thats why people do it in general bothering not much about it same as they lie ,cheat and do other small sins without bothering much..

but in some cases alcohal related accidents cost the lives of people and society so its better if we stay away from this thing..

I agree that Alcohol related issues can be very devastating not only to the individual but also (in some instances) to the people around them. So why then is pig haram or eating dead meat and blood haram and yet alcohol that can potentially have society wide implications come in the category of "ijtanabu"? Obviously its Gods wisdom but then does it mean that we can consume alcohol as long as we don't go overboard? Because I find Haram to mean something that is a not allowed at all, while alcohol does not seem to fall within that category.

huruf

The question put up in this thread is not whether alcohol is haram or not but the stand on alcohol concumption based on Qur'an.

If alcohol is the work of shaytan and corrupting but it is not haram, that is great. We can have a great time with shaytan's corrupting work any time we feel like it. It is not haram.

Who fears shaytan and his works if it is not haram? Why should we be held up from the corrupt worok of Shaytan if it is not haram. What can be wrong with it. We are so good so moderate why should we fear it and keep away from it as fromthe devil? Those whowant to spoil the fun cannot prohibit us what God does not prohibit. Is not that great. nd sometimes if you are moderte Shytan is so friendly...

Salaam

OnlyOneGod

The question put up in this thread is not whether alcohol is haram or not but the stand on alcohol concumption based on Qur'an.

If alcohol is the work of shaytan and corrupting but it is not haram, that is great. We can have a great time with shaytan's corrupting work any time we feel like it. It is not haram.

Who fears shaytan and his works if it is not haram? Why should we be held up from the corrupt worok of Shaytan if it is not haram. What can be wrong with it. We are so good so moderate why should we fear it and keep away from it as fromthe devil? Those whowant to spoil the fun cannot prohibit us what God does not prohibit. Is not that great. nd sometimes if you are moderte Shytan is so friendly...

Salaam

Actually the question is very clear on whether alcohol is "haram" based on the Quran. I think my first sentence in the OP clarifies that.

If you are going to deflect and talk about things that shaytan entices people towards then (just like the hadith lovers) you will declare a lot of things "haram" which God did not declare "haram".

huruf

You are worng I do not cling to declaring haram anything at all, but you cling to something not being haram you make it problemless that is nto what the qur'an says. As to the categories haram nd halal as right or wrong equivalents and nothing asiade of that, that is hadithism in deed, and not Qur'an. Qur'an is far more intelligent and refined than that.

You seem to think that if it is not haram, called haram in Qur'an, you can go ahead and no problem, well it is not like that, you may do whatever you like but ypu will have to answer for what you do. Not labelling something haram does not turn people into irresponsible robots.

Salaam

OnlyOneGod

You are worng I do not cling to declaring haram anything at all, but you cling to something not being haram you make it problemless that is nto what the qur'an says. As to the categories haram nd halal as right or wrong equivalents and nothing asiade of that, that is hadithism in deed, and not Qur'an. Qur'an is far more intelligent and refined than that.

You seem to think that if it is not haram, called haram in Qur'an, you can go ahead and no problem, well it is not like that, you may do whatever you like but ypu will have to answer for what you do. Not labelling something haram does not turn people into irresponsible robots.

Salaam

I do not say that non-Haram things are acceptable. This is your own interpretation on my wordings. What I simply ask is whether alcohol is "haram" as per the Quran. If you bother to view my previous postings in this thread I clearly mention the devastating effect alcohol can have on the person and their family.

huruf

So it is not declared haram, so what. What do you get out of that? Yu can go ahead and drink and no qualms?

The question is not whether it is haram or halal but whether youa re well advised to do it or not.God does nto say that if you do not do anything haram you are a good person or that you are muslim.

On the other hand it is not me who puts shaytan on the scene but the Qur'an. You may want to make light of it or ridicule it, but it is there, and it does nto say that shaytan "entices", as you put it, but says that spirits (amongst other things) are "rijsun min 3amal ash-shaytan", are a corruption work of shaytan, so really the fact that it is not called haram, really what does tell you, that you may go and drink? It is like saying to somebody "yes your are freeto go inside that building that is crumbling under the fire". It is not forbidden to go into it, but why would you want to do such a thing? For the kicks?

If it is to guarantee a right that you are harping on the not haram, do nto worry we do all of us have that right, but that makes the question more difficult and not easier and if God did not call it haram it is because He knows it is more difficult than that. Not any prohibition but only the very strong conviction can keep anybody from drinking and encouraging thereby others to drink.

Salaam

OnlyOneGod

So it is not declared haram, so what. What do you get out of that? Yu can go ahead and drink and no qualms?

The question is not whether it is haram or halal but whether youa re well advised to do it or not.God does nto say that if you do not do anything haram you are a good person or that you are muslim.

On the other hand it is not me who puts shaytan on the scene but the Qur'an. You may want to make light of it or ridicule it, but it is there, and it does nto say that shaytan "entices", as you put it, but says that spirits (amongst other things) are "rijsun min 3amal ash-shaytan", are a corruption work of shaytan, so really the fact that it is not called haram, really what does tell you, that you may go and drink? It is like saying to somebody "yes your are freeto go inside that building that is crumbling under the fire". It is not forbidden to go into it, but why would you want to do such a thing? For the kicks?

If it is to guarantee a right that you are harping on the not haram, do nto worry we do all of us have that right, but that makes the question more difficult and not easier and if God did not call it haram it is because He knows it is more difficult than that. Not any prohibition but only the very strong conviction can keep anybody from drinking and encouraging thereby others to drink.

Salaam

Ok then why did God create a "Haram" category of things? Why did God say not to put things into this category unless God himself did not do so? Is that not stated in the Quran?

What is the value of this so called "haram" category if you feel that you can insert other things to fall within it which God did not within the Quran? What is the difference between the Quranic Haram and the things you want to insert into it?

Noon_waalqalami

Peace, it?s straight forward advice especially detrimental if done together/combination like gambling and drunk.

2219 asked they you about l-khamri/the inebriant and the wager say in them dual ith'mun/detriment great and gains (i.e. medicinal when taken in moderation e.g. glass of wine perhaps, analytics study, etc. hence still useful) to the humankind ith'muhum/and detriment them dual greater from benefit them dual...

590 O you the ones believes ye of only the inebriant and the wager and the monuments/altars for sacrifice and the arrows filthiness from work the devil so avoid ye him that may you succeeding 591 only intends the devil that cause between you the hostility and the hatred in the inebriant and the wager and hinder you about remembrance the god and from the connection so can be you ceasing?

443 O you the ones believes ye of not approach ye of the connection and are you sukr/intoxicated until thou know ye of what thou saying?

1667 and from fruits the date palms and the grapes thou taking from it sakaran/intoxicant of and provision of good of indeed in such surely sign for folk reasoning

It?s also important to note that years ago water especially not running or in containers could have harmful microorganisms and make people sick same as today when visiting some third world countries e.g. Mexico hence people drank beer/wine especially when on long voyages.

This reminds me of the book "The Turkish Letters of Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq" him traveling to Istanbul at time of Suleiman the Magnificent via Balkans when he encounters Janissaries (one of my great grandfathers was their imam/spiritual leader lol) which their function when not at war was to "police and protect? Christians under Ottoman rule. He says they were respectful, often silent, and one would think they were monks without knowing them. They also liked wine and when offered drank all they could since they considered it a sin to have even a small sip so either way the punishment was equal.

https//books.google.com/books/about/The_Turkish_Letters_of_Ogier_Ghiselin_de.html?id=AnynLQ_cgjYC

imrankhawaja

I agree that Alcohol related issues can be very devastating not only to the individual but also (in some instances) to the people around them. So why then is pig haram or eating dead meat and blood haram and yet alcohol that can potentially have society wide implications come in the category of "ijtanabu"? Obviously its Gods wisdom but then does it mean that we can consume alcohol as long as we don't go overboard? Because I find Haram to mean something that is a not allowed at all, while alcohol does not seem to fall within that category.

actually there is a difference in between PIG and alcohol
PIG is filth
alcohol is danger(highly inflammeable)

i usually prefer not to talk about this issue as i witness one of my frd family effected by this thing its kinda senstive topic for me.. i will not advise anybody to go near it..

but the fact and the wording of God is far above emotions

so lets summarise it for last time..

"ijtanab" from devil
"ithm" are in them

let say forget about alcohol , if you consider a Gun there are both good and harm in it too
apply everything in general you can have benefits and harms both.. so God did not prohibited it as we know alcohol as a chemical is something important to b used for killing bacteria and infections , medical use.. mouthwash use.. perfume use

so according to Quran yeh its not in the list of "haram" but while addressing alcohol God already told us the dangerous properties of this substance.. and these dangerous properties are exist in evething literal

like this laptop and internet.. either read a quran thorough it, give a charity through it.. but you can also watch porn and disturb/abuse people by same medium. do cyber crime and fraud by same medium

so i dnt think so its hard to understand what author want us to tell..

nobody have a right to declare something "haram" which is not haram by God..

the problemtic thing for making it haram is the verse in which you are advice to stay away from sala if you are intoxicated by default what does it mean.. are we allowed to take it on other hours?

and the event of jospeh and the example of wine rivers, there is not any pig rivers/roast in heavens why?

thats my last post on this thread becoz trully i dnt not want anybody to consume alcohol but it will not change the fact when we collect all the verses of alcohol its totally different than pig..

God bless you

OnlyOneGod