Note on 4:34 and Sam Gerrans.
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Also,relying on anyone s translation to agree with yours is futile, Why?
Because no matter what others say,our job is to check all the details and agree with some,disagree with some or disagree with most or disagree completely with all.The fact remains humans are interpreting GOD s words. Humans means background,issues,traditions,bias,ego...etc. Who has not got issues,including messengers and Nabis.?
Agree to disagree and move on to keep going searching for your truth. Only GOD and His words are perfection.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
you can have your own understanding of things but you don't have to bash on the guy.
Everyone has his/her own views on hypocrisy. I expressed mine. And I believe people who consider themselves Quran alone believers should know about his true personality. If you do not consider him a hypocrite, that's fine with me. As I said in my post - in no way I am asking anybody to abandon his translation. I did so because I have reasons to do so based on Sam's personality and actions . I regret studying his work.
Irony is how he translated the beggining of the 434 - And those from whom you fear haughtiness. Well, thats he who is haughty towards others, based on his "responses" on social media. Such people will never deserve my attention let alone support.
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Also,relying on anyone s translation to agree with yours is futile, Why?
Because no matter what others say,our job is to check all the details and agree with some,disagree with some or disagree with most or disagree completely with all.The fact remains humans are interpreting GOD s words. Humans means background,issues,traditions,bias,ego...etc. Who has not got issues,including messengers and Nabis.?
Agree to disagree and move on to keep going searching for your truth. Only GOD and His words are perfection.
GOD bless.
Peace.Peace,
This thead is not about his work, except for 434 which is biased in my own opinion. It is notably about Sam Gerrans. It is not my intention to slander Gerrans, but to show others. For those of similar views, they will make their own conclusions. If he can't discuss something about his own work with his own followers, block them but then keeps sending his video without giving a chance to further discuss on the issue - he is worse than those fascistic 'psycopaths' about which he writes his articles and often makes videos.
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well, you gotta give him some credits for making an entire video so that people (like yourself) are discouraged from sending him their theories and try to convince him with it. There must be thousands of people doing that.
and obviously his translation is his translation, and his project, and so are his videos. people who are interested in it can buy it. No one is forcing anyone. His stuff has his name all over it. What do you even expect from him? You got your merch lol
even if you think that he didn't handle the situation in the best possible way (debatable), it doesn't make him a hypocrite, or 'someone worth calling out'. people make mistakes.
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well, you gotta give him some credits for making an entire video so that people (like yourself) are discouraged from sending him their theories and try to convince him with it. There must be thousands of people doing that.
and obviously his translation is his translation, and his project, and so are his videos. people who are interested in it can buy it. No one is forcing anyone. His stuff has his name all over it. What do you even expect from him? You got your merch lol
even if you think that he didn't handle the situation in the best possible way (debatable), it doesn't make him a hypocrite, or 'someone worth calling out'. people make mistakes.
Again, if you fail to see hypocrisy in what he does, based on his attitude towards the elite , but then acts in the same snobish and fascistic manner after I ask him to once again review his 434 because it has flaws, to say the least - that's completely fine by me. I am not insisting that everyone should abandon his work. I did. Everybody chooses his/her own actions, I just hope these are wise actions everyone takes.
If he blocks people to debate with him on his own work, by challenging others to write similar works, this is simply pathetic. His own work is not blocked, it is out there, released .
Another part of his notalbe hypocrisy is him asking for money , but does not tell as to what his project is going to be https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcSbQliAeXg
So people according to him are 'doers' if they invest into something they have no clue about? Ridiculous. This and mostly the latest actions related to my experience with him made me conclude on the subject. Again, I am not asking anyone to have the same attitude towards him as I do. Read his work, invest into him, get blocked by him if you disagree - whatever.
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Peace Makaveli.
I get your point and you are right to highlight the injustice/ban.My aim /intend is not to criticise but advise that nobody should follow/rely on others.
Everyone should pick what is best from others or leave altogether.
Of course if anyone wants to follow/rely on anyone they are free to do so. This is in general,not intended for you.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
It still funny that only after your incident with him that you somehow woke up from your illusion. And he somehow turned into that terrible hypocrite bad guy.
Illussion of what? It was first time of me reading his work, after which I decided to contact him, since he was friended with me on Facebook. As the message suggests, it was quite surprising to find out his translation of 434, but honestly I also felt this way since no previous attempts at translating it in a liberal manner convinced me enough.
But his own interpretation is flawed, to say the least, it can be easily observed once you read my points. I bet anyone can easily make up some points against his interpretation (in case one reads it of course, and familiarizes himself with Sam's 434). So my point was I'd rather use reformist translation of 434 and I asked him to review this because his assumptions are based on dubious sources of research. Just because he made a huge work , does not mean he has to abandon any outside attempts at pointing out probable mistakes of his, in the same manner fascists and traditionalists abandon any attempts .
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Peace Makaveli.
I get your point and you are right to highlight the injustice/ban.My aim /intend is not to criticise but advise that nobody should follow/rely on others.
Everyone should pick what is best from others or leave altogether.
Of course if anyone wants to follow/rely on anyone they are free to do so. This is in general,not intended for you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.That is exactly my point, thank you brother. Peace.
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Irony is how he translated the beggining of the 434 - And those from whom you fear haughtiness.
Peace ? was he consistent?
434 ... thou fearing nushza-hunna/recalcitrant theirs (feminine pl.)
4128 and if woman fear she from husband hers nushz-an/recalcitrant ofLikewise ?in context? what do you think it means?
434 ? wa-arib-hunna/and ??? ye them (feminine pl.)
Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane
signifies, (S, Msb,) or signifies also, (TA,) and (Msb, TA) so does , (Msb, K, TA,) (assumed tropical) He turned away from, avoided, shunned, or left, him, or it; (S * Msb, K * TA; *) namely, a person, (TA,) or a thing.
(tropical) He disposed, or accommodated, and subjected, himself to such a thing, or such an affair.
signifies also (tropical) He was silent; he spoke not or he lowered his eyes, looking towards the ground
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Explanation must be easy and sound, not a hundred pages long "interpretation" and a game with word-root play.
Just read the semantic components of English verb "strike" the meanings of Arabic verb will become explicit. I have already given the link which incorporates its usage in Qur'aan.
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Are you the person who started this
https//www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/6lcaut/sam_gerrans_quran_translation_thoughts/?st=j5vr1uar&sh=c368561bI would be careful about accepting anything from someone who wrote for RT.
Negative. He is yes affiliated with RT , but he also lived in Russia, which itself is nothing bad or good, it's just a fact. But from personal perspective, it was my last time I'd ever interact with such a person. You either blindly accept his work and vision or write your own , without any possiblity of side discussions.
Just read the semantic components of English verb "strike" the meanings of Arabic verb will become explicit. I have already given the link which incorporates its usage in Qur'aan.
I am quite sure 'strike' in English means anything but leaving or abandoning, except in some rare cases where another word is provided besides a verb, such as 'hit the road, Jack'. It is also important to understand what is it men might fear in women in 434 - rebbelion or haughtiness? Because you know, the only way to cease rebbelion is by force, but with a haughty person I'd simply quit any contact.
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I am quite sure 'strike' in English means anything but leaving or abandoning, except in some rare cases where another word is provided besides a verb, such as 'hit the road, Jack'. It is also important to understand what is it men might fear in women in 434 - rebbelion or haughtiness? Because you know, the only way to cease rebbelion is by force, but with a haughty person I'd simply quit any contact.
I think link given was not consulted. Relevant para is reproduced
The basic perception, meanings and signification infolded in this Root " " as stated in Lane Lexicon is,
"accord. to Er-R?ghib, signifies the making a thing to fall upon another thing;"The conceptual meanings of the Root evidently reveal that its meanings in the real-world experience will be reflected by the collocates or other words associated with it in the context.
It reflects that its effect may necessarily not be of causing hurt. It reflects an instance; an illustration or an occurrence. The most equivalent word in English vocabulary to describe the basic perception and its various uses in different semantic fields is verb "strike". "Strike" denotes; to fall or shine on something; to make something noticed; make something to be perceived or become audible-understandable for someone; to make some idea enter somebody's mind or occur to somebody; to penetrate or seem to go right through something; make something by stamping; and to remove something away-displace. And taking support and help of other words, its use signifies to hit somebody or something with a hand, tool, weapon, or other object. Obvious intention in such strike is to hurt, damage, dislocate, dislodge, deform, shape or stamp the target with force. Moreover, support words will be required if the intention of the speaker is to indicate the instance as involving repeated strikes to reflect what is denoted by English word "beating"; punishment in which somebody is repeatedly hit.
We will firstly study all the 57 occurrences, other than one in 434, to see that Root " " is as if it is synonymous with English word "strike" as defined above.
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Which 'support word' is needed when the direction is made in the combination of 'strike' and 'them'? This is yet another diatribe I wrote about earlier. And yes, I have briefly seen this link but again, if one has to be an Arabic-English linguist to understand the Qur'an, then how is one going to understand it without falling into the trap of somebody's else interpretation? I believe my initial questions on Sam's 'interpretation' make more sense than this whole linguistic work, which I barely view as authentic, due to the lack of understanding of author's methodology.
If strike means beat in 99% of cases what is the chance of the final punishment in 434 to be anything else, except in cases if we look for context in other verses, namely 435 and 425 (a possibility to marry a woman who is not initially a believer thus her punishment is only half of that for a believing woman and the following divorce procedure after the 'events' of 434.
Also, the person in authority in 435 - who is he? A village elder? A trusted person? A friend of the family? What if a woman is an orphan and does not have a protector or other members of the family to represent her? Traditionalist would say it is a local imam, if you understand where I am going with this...
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I think ,according to the context of the verse,there are choices of solving the matter. "Darb" should not even be considered,regardless of what it means.
Now let us assume for a moment that there is "darb" ,what are the clear instruction on how to carry it? Has there been an agreement on its usage?There are too many interpretations and assumptions that is all .Let us now go back to our society and how common sense and awareness is leading to better laws/way of living... Now say the law of the land has forbidden violence or even threatening violence,does one go against the just laws of the land? One can argue that we can break the law if it is unjust,but surely we should welcome just laws according to GOD s message.
For me GOD is very consistent .GOD does not order fahisha /injustice. I will go and look at the interpretations that go with the truthfulness of the message.
GOD bless.
Peace.