Purgatory
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That was the short version. Here is the rest of it
THE REALITY OF HELL
"During life, if a soul gets deeper and deeper into sin, darkness and blindness, God will call and call that soul, time after time, urging it to respond to the Light.
"But if a person does not want to hear and does not want to see and refused to respond, the body will make of that soul a living hell, in all the faculties of that person, and it responds only to the temptation of the Devil.
"If the person dies in that state, his soul, on being released from its mortality, realizes that it cannot come before the greatness and Light of God in that state, because it just could not bear it. The pain would be too great, because if that soul had been prepared for Hell by the life lived by the body on earth, and it came before the greatness of God - everything of total love and goodness - in the enormity of that Light and Goodness, the soul would suffer enormous agony.
"So it is not so much God condemning it or casting it into Hell, as the soul itself, unable to bear the pain of the enormity of the Light of God casting itself into Hell."
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Hello All,
I have enjoyed reading this topic on purgatory, particulary the dialogue between Tay and Khalil. I think they are very interresting insightful. Its pity a that I was not here to participate in it from the begining -( but I will not lenghthen the thread any longer with further comments apart from that I agree with many points that Khalil and Tay Touched upon.
But I am happy to find few artistic people here on this forum -) I just browsed Khalil's work and I think its outstanding! Vangoh is one of my favourite artist too. I would love to hear sample of Tay's music -)
It is my view that Art and Religion has always coexisted and played a very important role in our human development. And art will continue to play an important role throughout the future of humanity.
And Tay, I found your near death experience a fascinating read. You say you were not bothered being propelled towards that wall of fire. I am really just curious about that. Majority of NDE's go through a life review - yours did not. Perhaps we could open a new thread to discuss NDE's?
One more question I would like to ask both Tay and Khalil is that when you create any work of art - what is the first impulse behind it?
Regards,
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Peace Khalil,
I am glad you are serious about analysing my work, most people accept or reject work which I have spent hours to months on in a minutes time.
I know the feeling cry
Art is a brotherhood. I've always bonded best with true artists. And it's usually the bonding that happens first, and then I later find out that the person is an artist. My closest circle of friends consists of all artists in some form they consist of writers, musicians, producers, DJ's, and fashion designers.I frequent Manhattan often in the warmer months, and I'm always more compelled to give the street artists money than the panhandlers. I feel closer to them. It's a strange phenomenon.
At the moment this is what I am aiming towards (art teacher), although I may change my outlet in the future but the constructive goal will always remain, without a doubt I will do a career involving art.
That's a great attitude, bro. Remember, we are what we visualize. Stay focused and you will certainly succeed.
Music can be very healing, as well as a therapy on its own. I learned/grew a great deal just by listening to music. I believe visual arts is very theraputic and can attune one to inner healing.
True indeed!
I am sure that what ever you do set you minds eye towards will be constructive as you are giving this considerable thought and are looking towards building rather than destroying.
Thanks for the encouragement wink
Sounds cool, I'll wait.
I've actually got 2 days off in a row!!! So, hopefully, after this weekend, we'll have something to share.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace LoteTree,
I have enjoyed reading this topic on purgatory, particulary the dialogue between Tay and Khalil.
Its pity a that I was not here to participate in it from the begining but I will not lenghthen the thread any longer with further comments apart from that I agree with many points that Khalil and Tay Touched upon
Hey bro, the thread is still open. Lengthen away!!!!
I would love to hear sample of Tay's music
Coming soon, I hope.
It is my view that Art and Religion has always coexisted and played a very important role in our human development. And art will continue to play an important role throughout the future of humanity.
Yes. Art is a tool for refining the soul. There is nothing rational or logical about it. It's just pure subconscious flow. And that's why it's so important, to keep our souls balanced and expressed, which cannot be done through reason alone.
And Tay, I found your near death experience a fascinating read. You say you were not bothered being propelled towards that wall of fire. I am really just curious about that.
Me too. I've read quite abit about NDE's as well, and my story is inconsistent with the norm. This leads me to believe that my soul was just tired from all the hallucinogenics I was on. The spiritual realm, it seems, is a place for recuperation, a place for spiritual calm. It is also a place of inspiration. Perhaps I wasn't floating towards hell, but I was just offered a vision of this ride in order to wake me up, so to speak. I mean, after the incident, I certainly changed my habits. Like Morpheus says to Neo in the Matrix, the Oracle told me what I needed to hear.
Perhaps we could open a new thread to discuss NDE's?
Absolutely.
when you create any work of art - what is the first impulse behind it?
I used to write a lot of poems when I was younger. It started as a form of personal therapy. Whenever I felt oevrwhelmed, or sad, or depressed, or confused, I would wirte about it. This always helped me organize my thoughts and release the negative energy. I would literally jaust hang my head and exhale in peac afterward.
But music has been without an emotional catalyst. I just love doing it. In fact, when I'm particularly caught up in emotion of any sort, I can't really make music. But I think this is more because I no longer have a keyboard, which is instant gratification. All the stuff I do now is more calculated as I do it with my pc. Thanks for asking this question, because I really need to get a new keyboard.
Peace,
Tay -
Hey bro, the thread is still open. Lengthen away!!!!
OK. But I must re-read all the posts again to find anything new to say -)
Yes. Art is a tool for refining the soul. There is nothing rational or logical about it. It's just pure subconscious flow. And that's why it's so important, to keep our souls balanced and expressed, which cannot be done through reason alone.
Absolutely! Because it's not rational or logical perhaps thats why I am drawn to it. Rational thinking can be very tiring -(
Me too. I've read quite abit about NDE's as well, and my story is inconsistent with the norm. This leads me to believe that my soul was just tired from all the hallucinogenics I was on. The spiritual realm, it seems, is a place for recuperation, a place for spiritual calm. It is also a place of inspiration. Perhaps I wasn't floating towards hell, but I was just offered a vision of this ride in order to wake me up, so to speak. I mean, after the incident, I certainly changed my habits. Like Morpheus says to Neo in the Matrix, the Oracle told me what I needed to hear.
That is very interesting. And the experience has allowed you to transform your life thats just great! Though I do not wish NDE on anyone but it must be a blessing in disguise to have one...?
I used to write a lot of poems when I was younger. It started as a form of personal therapy. Whenever I felt oevrwhelmed, or sad, or depressed, or confused, I would wirte about it. This always helped me organize my thoughts and release the negative energy. I would literally jaust hang my head and exhale in peac afterward.
Me too -) I used to do that a lot and I still write poems as a personal therapy!
But music has been without an emotional catalyst. I just love doing it. In fact, when I'm particularly caught up in emotion of any sort, I can't really make music. But I think this is more because I no longer have a keyboard, which is instant gratification. All the stuff I do now is more calculated as I do it with my pc. Thanks for asking this question, because I really need to get a new keyboard.
I do have a keyboard but I don't play that good! I can only manage simplified version of Beethoven's Moonlight sonata. But I enjoy listening to music a lot but poetry is my main emotional catalyst...poetry and music I find very therapeutic.
Since you mentioned the "Holographic Principle" in a another thread I was intrigued that I searched on the net for further information. And I was amazed to find what is all about! omnijective universe? This is more to the mystical view of the universe! has science finally caught up with Mystics?
I am still reading about this very fascinating topic. Hope to discuss it with you when you are ready to open a thread for this topic -)
Take care.
Regards,
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Peace LoteTree,
I do have a keyboard but I don't play that good! I can only manage simplified version of Beethoven's Moonlight sonata.
To me, the beauty of the keyboard is that you don't need to be an expert. If you have an ear for music, you just hit the notes that sound right and repeat, progress, etc. Especially with arpeggiator functions and such, making music with a good keyboard is just as therapeutic and effective for an amateur as it is for an expert.
Since you mentioned the "Holographic Principle" in a another thread I was intrigued that I searched on the net for further information. And I was amazed to find what is all about! omnijective universe? This is more to the mystical view of the universe! has science finally caught up with Mystics?
I think so. Science is slowly opening it's doors to possibilities other than a linear reality. I think quantum mechanics has a lot to do with this. It requires imagination and creativity to understand quantum theory.
I am still reading about this very fascinating topic. Hope to discuss it with you when you are ready to open a thread for this topic
I'm still reading about it also. But please don't wait for a new thread. Let's discuss!
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Lote
Quote I have enjoyed reading this topic on purgatory, particulary the dialogue between Tay and Khalil. I think they are very interresting insightful.
I feel the same way aobut the posts of yours which I have read, particullarily your thoughts on art and the finite and infinite.
Quote Its pity a that I was not here to participate in it from the begining but I will not lenghthen the thread any longer with further comments apart from that I agree with many points that Khalil and Tay Touched upon.
It's never to late when all we have is eternity! o
Quote But I am happy to find few artistic people here on this forum I just browsed Khalil's work and I think its outstanding! Vangoh is one of my favourite artist too. I would love to hear sample of Tay's music
Thank you for the compliment. And yes Van Gogh is an amazing artist.
Quote It is my view that Art and Religion has always coexisted and played a very important role in our human development. And art will continue to play an important role throughout the future of humanity.
When you think about it nothing really isn't art
Quote One more question I would like to ask both Tay and Khalil is that when you create any work of art - what is the first impulse behind it?
I would say my first impulse is "DRAW!" It's kind of hard to describe because if there isn't an emotional connection to begin with of what I am drawing there is by the time I finish.
In the past I would stop when I didn't feel the peice was evolving at the pace I desire nor turning out as I had willed but now I am much more at ease just watching the picture unfold before my eyes wether it is or isn't what I had desired.
To me drawing is much like a spontaneous revelation, in that I usually never get the end design looking how I thought originally and I am often dumbfounded at the results, think'n "How I do this?"
peace,
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Peace Tay
Quote I know the feeling
Art is a brotherhood. I've always bonded best with true artists. And it's usually the bonding that happens first, and then I later find out that the person is an artist. My closest circle of friends consists of all artists in some form they consist of writers, musicians, producers, DJ's, and fashion designers.Like attracts like- I believe, so naturally- I assume, artists will be drawn together. Funny this is, my best friend expresses no interest in art, though is a real good person and that makes up for it. )
Quote That's a great attitude, bro. Remember, we are what we visualize. Stay focused and you will certainly succeed.
Thanks for the encouragement. I now believe that I will definitley become an art teacher (minor English) because it leaves me the least constrained, as well I get to help others.
Quote I've actually got 2 days off in a row!!! So, hopefully, after this weekend, we'll have something to share.
Enjoy. I recall you mentioned working 60 hours a week (much more than me) and in the Gobi Desert Taxi drivers work 106 hours a week-average, and only make $213 a month!! I thought this bit of knowledge may soothe the pain of working 60 hours a week.
peace,
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Hello Khalil,
It is nice to hear from you.
Thank you for the compliment. And yes Van Gogh is an amazing artist.
I have been interested in art since I was ten and I can say your art work looks outstanding and I learn now you are just 18! I wish you all the sucess in your art and your future career...
When you think about it nothing really isn't art
I agree. Sometimes I wonder whether art came first or religion in the consciousness of human beings in our evoluitonary past...
To me drawing is much like a spontaneous revelation, in that I usually never get the end design looking how I thought originally and I am often dumbfounded at the results, think'n "How I do this?"
Thats true creativity! The appeareance of form from nothingness of imaginations which becomes almost independent from its creator in its own right.
As for the Purgatory topic. I am reading through all the posts again to see if I could add anything new...
Take care.
Regards,
Hello Tay,
I am in the process of putting my thoughts in order regarding the Holographic Principle and omnijective reality. Discuss with you soon...
Take care.
Regards,
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Peace Lote Tree
I have been interested in art since I was ten and I can say your art work looks outstanding and I learn now you are just 18! I wish you all the sucess in your art and your future career...
Each day I am learning age does not really have much to do with one's abilities, one can physically age but the rest of their self can still remain a seed pigging out in the dirt.
I must now ask you then, do you have any art for my eye's or ear's feast upon? As well, where have you set yourself towards for the future?
When you think about it nothing really isn't art
I agree. Sometimes I wonder whether art came first or religion in the consciousness of human beings in our evoluitonary past...
When you think about it nothing really isn't art *
note the wink now think The answer is as well in the question.
To me drawing is much like a spontaneous revelation, in that I usually never get the end design looking how I thought originally and I am often dumbfounded at the results, think'n "How I do this?"
Thats true creativity! The appeareance of form from nothingness of imaginations which becomes almost independent from its creator in its own right.
hmmm.. rather than independent I would fine tune it to say co-dependent; the creative forces made the art I just directed how and where it would reveal it's self. But I do understand what you are saying, I am having trouble putting it into words as words are very limited.
As for the Purgatory topic. I am reading through all the posts again to see if I could add anything new...
Right on!
peace,
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Peace Khalil, LoteTree, Zenje,
Khalil stated
my best friend expresses no interest in art, though is a real good person and that makes up for it.
Hmmm...perhaps he/she just needs to find the right medium for expression. My guess is your friend is really funny and creative when it comes to telling stories/jokes, etc. That's an artist waiting to bloom.
Thanks for the encouragement.
You're welcome.
I now believe that I will definitley become an art teacher (minor English) because it leaves me the least constrained, as well I get to help others.
Do it with all your heart and passion. Don't let doubt slow you down. Don't let anyone's opinions slow you down. And most cautiously, don't let reality dictate your passion. Just some friendly advice, from experience money comes and goes. We all need to make ends meet. But at the end of the day, you'll sleep better knowing you're doing something you love. The alternative is tortuous. I waited too long, and now I'm bogged down as life has got it's hooks in me. It makes it that much harder to get in the studio, to get back to making new tracks. I'm still gonna do it, but I should have done it when I was 18 with 1/10 of the responsibilities I have now.
in the Gobi Desert Taxi drivers work 106 hours a week-average, and only make $213 a month!! I thought this bit of knowledge may soothe the pain of working 60 hours a week.
thanks, I needed that wink
LoteTree stated
I am in the process of putting my thoughts in order regarding the Holographic Principle and omnijective reality. Discuss with you soon...
I'm looking forward to it. The only person who I can talk about it with works 7 days a week and I hardly get to see him.
Zenje stated
Tay, if you wish me to split the topic and create a new thread with some of the present posts... gimme a holler
No need bro. The thread will magically open up when the time is right. wink
Peace be upon you all,
Tay -
Hello All,
There are no clear Biblical references to Purgatory in Christianity. Purgatory is a doctrine invented by the Catholic Churches in later years. I think in Islam there is only a single verse, which relates to the time between Death and the Day of Judgement. This period is known as "Barzakh" in which the souls contemplate the nature of their earthly actions, and desire so much to be returned to earth again so that they may carry out good deeds to redeem themselves. But the request is denied.
I always wondered why this request is denied? If the soul knows it has done wrong then surely it should be allowed to atone for it? Even in our human laws we allow certain people to undergo "community" service as a form of punishment. Perhaps a similar principle could be applied on a spiritual level? I also wonder though - why souls would want to come to this "earth of sorrows" again? I am sure there would be a better way to do good deeds? But perhaps ?rightness? and ?wrongness? is somehow tied to this world of ours and therefore it is in this world that we could make any amends for our own mistakes?
But if there is a period of Purgatory then this place must be a timeless dimension from that of our own physical realm, a parallel universe as Tay suggested (even scientist these days speak of a multi-verse where infinite possibilities are played out), where souls could reflect and contemplate their deeds and actions of their earthly life, so that they can prepare themselves for their own judgement before their Creator. And yes, like Tay and Khalil, I believe that we judge ourselves. True punishment, I think is living with the consequences of our actions. That is why it will be up to us to judge ourselves. And my view is further strengthened by the fact that vast majority of NDE's, from all kinds of religious and cultural backgrounds, report that they were met by a ?Benevolent and Loving? being who did not judge them but rather allowed them to come to their own judgement. I think this is more ?just? than God imposing justice on us?
I like the idea of Karma, the laws of cause and effect. Karmic laws are impersonal and are more ?just?. You reap as you sow. There can be nothing personal about it. But if we are operating on a Karmic Principle ? is there a Final Judgement? And what would that Final Judgement be? I think Tay and Khalil are in agreement that Final Judgement is like turning on the light or unveiling the sculpture. Though I can agree with this view, but Tay said something on another thread that made me think. He said (I hope I am correct in this) that scripture speaks to the individual, and I agree with this. I have always viewed scripture as a ?dialogue? between the human Soul and the Divine. If that is the case, could the Final Judgement be a Final judgement based on the Individual rather than Final Judgement for the rest of Humanity all at once? If it is on an individual basis then I could say the Final Judgement is when the Individual is ready to stand before God?
?I must now ask you then, do you have any art for my eye's or ear's feast upon? As well, where have you set yourself towards for the future??
I am afraid due to family circumstances I have not been able to pursue art as career. I drifted into Computer Programming, which is not bad because I enjoy programming too and it also pays the bills. I have been dabbling with pencil drawing and oil paints but poetry is my main thing. But I don?t feel confident enough to post them yet but may be one day?It is my plan that when I become am financially ?secure? in life to do some kind of art degree. But it would be perhaps more like an Art, Literature, and History combined kind of degree?
Take care.
Regards,
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Peace,
I thought purgatory was basically in between heaven and hell rather than the period in the grave (not sure, but I think that comes from Hadiths). From my knowledge the people in the middle are granted paradise by Gods mercy, these people weren't evil nor were they believers or close to it. They are the people that many religious people say will never attain paradise but in the Quran we are told they do whereas the inhabitants of hell don't.
Nural
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Peace,
I thought purgatory was basically in between heaven and hell rather than the period in the grave (not sure, but I think that comes from Hadiths). From my knowledge the people in the middle are granted paradise by Gods mercy, these people weren't evil nor were they believers or close to it. They are the people that many religious people say will never attain paradise but in the Quran we are told they do whereas the inhabitants of hell don't.
Nural
Purgatory does not exist, it was an invention of the Catholic church to replace the re-defined hell. Before Dante, hell was seen as a waiting place after death. Since Dante changed the whole concept of hell for the early Christians (and everyone else) into a "fiery pit" the church then had to come up with a replacement - purgatory
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Well, I still think it exists.
Why?