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  1. Home
  2. Critical Examination of Islam
  3. Quranic Divinity
  4. Worship Allah and not the Quran

Worship Allah and not the Quran

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Quranic Divinity
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    Abdun_Nur
    wrote on last edited by
    #107

    If you had reason "man of faith" you would not have faith, as faith is belief free of reason.

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      Man_of_Faith
      wrote on last edited by
      #108

      Just like hadith which are a list of do's and don't's prophets, messenger, gurus, saints, or whatever crutch is invested in are used to remove reasoning, and conclusion to correct action

      You are clearly wrong regarding the Ten Directives which Moses become knowledgeable of. They are not there to remove reasoning but quite the opposite, they were there to be ambiguous lines to reflect upon their origin. And because you do not even care to read what I have to say, you have also not seen me elaborating upon why these directives were ever compiled. The Directives are equal to a remedy in RESISTING THE HUMAN INSTINCT (aka Satan) which is something which absorbs a person into taking active and vain participation in this world, it is like losing the mind to the ventures of the world.

      You are right in saying religious scholars invented religions around the world which mislead people, but that does not say there were wise persons who found some answers to our existence in past times but also modern times. Abraham, whoever he was I do not care about = no idolization, he discovered that the way was about being sane/sound concerning everything in life, and he was the beginning of a foundation of knowledge. Moses, I also do not care about who he was = no idolization, he expanded upon the be sound philosophy and found out Ten Parameters which lead to unsoundness, i.e. the ten commandments you know about. And Jesus, no idolization of the man, he elaborated upon the nature of these parameters causing spiritual decay and also showed someone upholding them perfectly with a pristine spirit, showing absolutely strong willpower and portrayed what happens to a man who truly manages to separate from the worldly. That is the truth behind the Abrahamic legacy if we remove religious bias.

      Be well
      Qarael Amenuel

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        Man_of_Faith
        wrote on last edited by
        #109

        If you had reason "man of faith" you would not have faith, as faith is belief free of reason.

        Additionally, the name "Man of Faith" is taken several years ago and I would perhaps not have taken it today because of ***** like you taking advantage of linguistics to deride things.

        I have said to you twice or thrice FAITH IS CONFIDENCE IN SOMETHING. IT CAN MEAN TO BELIEVE IN SOMETHING, BUT IT IS NOT THE ONLY CONNOTATION. SO MAN OF FAITH MEANS "MAN OF CONFIDENCE" AND IT WAS A SLIGHTLY DISTORTED TRANSLATION OF MY NAME AMENUEL ORIGINALLY INTO ENGLISH.

        People who know me, know I have a very strong confidence and therefore I am also often called arrogant. But I have a strong sense of reasoning, so I always evaluate everything using logic. Logic is the main component when looking at things.

        Be well
        Qarael Amenuel

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          good_logic
          wrote on last edited by
          #110

          GOD has created humans ,humans are recreating themselves as "class/categories".

          Some are "very logical" and clever,some are "clever" not so much logical,some are just "logical" some are "deluded",some are easily led,some are "I know but others have not got a clue",some are....OK endless types!!!!

          Now what is the true classification? Who is better than the other? Where does the "ego" come into the mix? What is the difference between claiming to work for the soul when one actually works for the "Ego"?...So many questions to ponder for all of us.

          So ,you have got the truth? What next? Ram it down the throats? shine it kindly? Use it for yourself? Brag with it?Fight with it?Rule with it?...The choices are endless.

          I have no doubt,my best guess, the first conversation between two humans started with one of them claiming to have the "truth". "I worked it out " that human claimed "I use my "logic/brain/cleverness/good faculties...etc" he adds....The other one "argues" back,,even if it was for the sake of arguing,never the less,he argued...And so on.

          We continue where others left,we move on regardless of where we are "forcibly taken" by GOD or nature or nothing ...or endless of claims...

          GOD bless the human race.
          Peace.

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            Man_of_Faith
            wrote on last edited by
            #111

            We have that potential for intelligence because we where created with such a soul power attached. Our soul is like a seed.

            Be well
            Qarael Amenuel

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              HP_TECH
              wrote on last edited by
              #112

              We have that potential for intelligence because we where created with such a soul power attached. Our soul is like a seed.

              Be well
              Qarael Amenuel

              Which of the Quran's Classical Arabic words do you regard as soul in the context you are referring to?
              Is it nafs or ruh?

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                scarface2890
                wrote on last edited by
                #113

                there no faith or belief in quran

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                  amin
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #114

                  The word "Faith" is originally accepting what's ordained.
                  And the word "Belief" is following some thing we do not understand without questions, like a child following its parents. Quran do not recommend blind belief but as i think its recommending following in the path of universal goodness and by following that we learn from ITS guidance.

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                    scarface2890
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #115

                    there no prophet in quran

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                      scarface2890
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #116

                      there no pray in quran and there no god too only allah, Worship is shirk

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                        good_logic
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #117

                        Peace scarface 2890.
                        These one liners will lead to "there is no quran"!!!!!
                        At least elaborate Hatu burhanakum in kuntum sadiqueen".
                        GOD bless you.
                        Peace

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                          Abdun_Nur
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #118

                          Peace.

                          Belief is not blind, that is equal to faith, and if you have faith you have nothing at all.

                          They Don?t Have a Thought in Their Head, do you?

                          Thought = thinking.

                          Thinking = reasoning to form rational (agreeable to reason) decisions.

                          Reasoning = logic used to form conclusions, judgments, or inferences.

                          Logic = ?a system or principles of reasoning? applicable to any branch of knowledge or study to establish convincing inexorable truth or persuasiveness.
                          Principles = adherence to ?morality?.

                          Truth = a verified, proven indisputable actuality.

                          Fact = what is agreed upon.

                          Belief = an opinion or conviction.

                          Reasoned belief free of assumptions = truth.

                          Morality ? The Act of Virtuous Conduct

                          The ?jural sphere? is to be distinguished from the ?moral sphere?

                          The moral sphere is the whole scope of ethics and the science of ethical conduct.

                          Ethics = a system of moral principles

                          The jural sphere is constructed legal fictions that are subjected as legal sanctions upon the dominated.

                          Jural = the exercise of authority in vindication (avenging) of granted right by assigning reward or punishment.

                          This leads to Virtue - an internal resolve to act through moral and ethical principles.

                          The deception - Invented religious virtues which do not represent fundamental virtuous principles

                          Prudence - regard for one's own interests

                          Justice - the exercise of authority in vindication of granted right by assigning reward or punishment

                          Temperance ? controlling the indulgence of a natural appetite or passion

                          Faith - belief that is not based on proof

                          Hope ? a desire for something and confidence in the possibility of its fulfillment

                          Charity - generous actions or donations to give aid

                          If anyone who thinks is interested i can fully explain "The Philosophy of Virtue".

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                            Man_of_Faith
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #119

                            The word faith comes etymologically from a word which means trust, its strongest connotation is to have confidence.

                            To believe without knowing for sure is not what this word conveys but whether one believes in shit or not is not conveyed. It merely says one trusts something or that one has confidence overall, e.g. in oneself, that one is secure at heart.

                            Believe is a weaker sort of stance on something, it implies insecurity but you still accept because of... belief.

                            But you are just playing with words here.

                            Be well
                            Qarael Amenuel

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                              huruf
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #120

                              I disagree tht faith is belief without proof. Rather it is belief with the strongest proof. The proof that comes from inner conviction. Conviction only comen from actual living personal inner and outer experience.

                              What is belief without proof is not faith but delusion, when somebody takes ilusions for real.

                              Salaam

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                                Man_of_Faith
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #121

                                Faith is irrespective of whether one has proof or not, it just indicates confidence in something. It can be correct and it can be false, it depends on what you have confidence in.

                                Be well
                                Qarael Amenuel

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                                  Abdun_Nur
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #122

                                  Peace.

                                  Twisting the meaning of terms solves nothing, if you have faith you always have nothing irrespective if it turns out to be true, as without reason and evidence you are simply delusional in belief, the Qur'an requires reason, even demanding you "PROVE" each verse before accepting it as true, investigation and reasoned determination is required, and faith does not enter that conceptual paradym.

                                  However from those who have replied I can see faith is the sole method used, repeating a faith mantra has no benefit to anyone.

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                                    good_logic
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #123

                                    Where there are hidden/unseen things,there will always be some faith.

                                    We may even find that both Faith and Reason are complementary.We have to keep searching/analysing.
                                    GOD bless.
                                    Peace

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                                      Abdun_Nur
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #124

                                      Reason and faith are dichotomous and can be nothing else, faith is nothing reason everything. Religious minds are desperate fpr faith as they have no skill of reasoning, if they had they would not be religious.

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                                        huruf
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #125

                                        Reason and faith are dichotomous and can be nothing else, faith is nothing reason everything. Religious minds are desperate fpr faith as they have no skill of reasoning, if they had they would not be religious.

                                        why do you confuse religion and faith? Religion is religion, faith is faith.

                                        Somebody who has faith is not desperate for anything, is not desperae for nothing at all.

                                        As to somebody religious being deperate for faith, I do not know how such a person feels, but if he is desperate that is a bad start. Faith does not come from desperation nor from religion. Faith comes from intimate convictionand does not need applause, approval or corroboration from others sources.

                                        And reson and faith are not contrary they are two different forms of knowledge, both very graifying provided the person who uses them is not deluded nor arrogant nor proud, just thankful for having those gifts in whatever measure she has them.

                                        Salaam

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                                          Abdun_Nur
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #126

                                          http//boardofwisdom.com/cachetogo/images/quotes/496937.png

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