The Qur'an is corrupted in translation and text is alter how can it be trusted?
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There does exist accounts of Moses which display his life quite differently than in the Bible and the (sectarian interpretation of) Quran, and then we should instead wonder whether there are problems with the commonly believed portrayals of Moses. In one source Moses does not kill a man like he does in the Bible or Quran, but is a Commander of the Egyptian army and fights against Nubia. However his spiritual side is growing in him and he becomes intimidating due to growing in popularity that the Egyptian authorities conspire against him and he eventually has to flee.
What I do find true is that the real Moses was quite different from in religious belief and his teaching also very different.
But you do not find such readings because all you are after is finding reasons to deny things and you are not genuinely interested in seeing if there are ways around the falsehood like I have done. I have "painted" another picture of Moses thanks to new data and being able to reinterpret Quran. Even his Ten Directives, quite famous, read quite differently because its translation is pretty weak. E.g. the line which allegedly says "do not kill" is to say "do not defeat/dominate".
Be well
Qarael AmenuelWhich is that "Moses" of Egyptian history you are talking about, what is his Egytian name and where is he mentionned and how and where is he mentionned, and in which time and how do you know that it is the same "Moses" tht is mentionned int he Bible.
The one mentionned int he Qur'an I know it is not.
Salaam
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There does exist accounts of Moses which display his life quite differently than in the Bible and the (sectarian interpretation of) Quran, and then we should instead wonder whether there are problems with the commonly believed portrayals of Moses. In one source Moses does not kill a man like he does in the Bible or Quran, but is a Commander of the Egyptian army and fights against Nubia. However his spiritual side is growing in him and he becomes intimidating due to growing in popularity that the Egyptian authorities conspire against him and he eventually has to flee.
Same question, can you give a reference, please ?
For the moment, I'm more inclined to think that a real Moses lived in Iraq, closed to Persia. The Mandeans have a fairly different story of Moses, as narrated by Nicolas Siouffi, French vice-consul of Mossul in the 19th century.
See "Etude sur la religion des Soubbas" https//archive.org/details/tudessurlarelig00siougoog
Unfortunately only in French, to my knowledge.According to the Mandeans, the "Firaoun" was called Farrokh-Malko and lived in Iraq, certainly close to Mossul.
There is a region in Iraqi Kurdistan that is called Musri https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musri, a name close to Misr, Egypt. Actually m-s-r in Semitic languages means border, frontier, so different regions were called the same.Curiously, the Kurds are supposed to descend from the Medes. The word "Medes" is in assonance with Madian, the territory where Moses is supposed to have sought refuge.
The territory of the Medes is also close to Persia, where Zoroastrianism, a monotheism, has emerged.The time of Moses based on the Bible is estimated to the 13th B.C.
Coincidentally, the same time is attributed to the Gathas of Zarathustra, based on the linguistic analysis of the their language, the Old-Avestic, close to Sanskrit.
And coincidentally too, Akhenaton in Egypt initiated a seemingly monotheism reform in Egypt.
As if a monotheism predication spread all around the Middle East in 13th century B.C. -
People of all classes, even the most educated ones, out of religious belief, took for granted everything that is narrated in the current Bible, and every new fact that came to them they placed it so that it came in agreement with the current bible. All kinds of words were brought to say that that was the Fir3awn, no matter how disemblable, and that is still being done and stories and facts of history and mixed and arranged so that they fit the "facts" that originated int the bible.
Egyptology by tiself does nto hold up to the "moses" story. The Qur'an does not at all suport the "Moses" story in its egyptian content, more than that, it contradicts it.
Misr in Arabic and in Qur'an is a sttled and civilised, urban, place. In todays Egypt, Cairo is mentionned commonly not as "Al Qahira" which is the wrd that is translated as Cairo, but as Masr, which is the common pronnunciation of the transliterated M-i-s-r
as written, but which itself is not pronnounced s MiSr because of the will known modification of vowels through the consonantes that accompany.Popular an even erudite belief has imposed al on qur'an the Biblical Moses over Musa.
Ancient Egypt abhorred o such ungodly thing as slavery, same asabhorred money, coins or paper, considered it against all divine respect and virtue.The ancient egyptian word on which the biblical menaing of pharaoh has been forced, is unwarranted, unverified and silly. Kings of Egyt were that, kings, not inventions of thousands of year later.
Salaam
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In one source Moses does not kill a man like he does in the Bible or Quran, but is a Commander of the Egyptian army and fights against Nubia.
Even his Ten Directives, quite famous, read quite differently because its translation is pretty weak. E.g. the line which allegedly says "do not kill" is to say "do not defeat/dominate".
How could he lead the army and fight against Nubia, which contradicts "do not defeat/dominate"?
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How could he lead the army and fight against Nubia, which contradicts "do not defeat/dominate"?
Probably because he did not make his realization first after that. It was after he was expelled or had to flee from Egypt he had his paranormal encounter of supernatural origin. Perhaps he saw his error and began to reason differently including part of his prophetic discoveries and due to spreading his new reasoning he got in trouble with people in general in terms of the arguments, and because he did not know what to tell people to convince them he lost favor and became disliked.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Moses is not mentioned in the Qur'an Mr Faith, the claim is a corruption.
Moses IS mentioned in the Quran, Mr. Abdun Nur. There are multiple instances where the word is clearly a reference to a live person.
is the Arabic word for Musa. And Musa is responsible for getting the initial knowledge. It was he who had the so-called Ten Directives come to him, which becomes clearer if one can decipher the text properly.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Moses is a complete fiction Mr Faith, that means not true, never existed, no events connected.
So be your belief.
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so be the evidence
Is there an evidence that you exist? What if your birth certificate is destoryed or is fabricated in the first place? How can people prove you existed years after? But if you leave your work people will consider you a symbol even if some will doubt your existence, they will still talk about you in one way or the other. Ten Commandments isn't fiction.
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You have no evidence which could rule out the probability of a man called Moses. I have written records including Quran and Quran has literary statements Musa is a person.
If you think that l the mentions are forged this is your belief, but this does not necessarily mean you have evidence.
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You been smoking something again Makaveli?
That is not a counter-argument and something which has any relevance to the discussion at hand.
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Whether there was a man called Moses who brought something called the Ten Directives, you still have those accessible and obviously someone upon a time must have presented them. That is actually all which matters to me and we can call him a Messiah without name instead then, if you are so hesitant calling him Moses.
What matters to me are the records of wisdom and knowledge still saved for us today and those you cannot deny me and I can choose to use them whether you like it or not and I can prove to you that they are relevant to a man's mental growth.
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Have you seen the ten commandments, an idiot could have thought of a better list of commandments, one that would have removed all excuse for the horrors of religion, hierarchy, usury, etc., but no we are supposed to believe the god of Moses had no clue and wrote a half assed list?
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Have you seen the ten commandments, an idiot could have thought of a better list of commandments, one that would have removed all excuse for the horrors of religion, hierarchy, usury, etc., but no we are supposed to believe the god of Moses had no clue and wrote a half assed list?
What You say an idiot could have written I think an idiot could not figure out what the Ten instinctive preventors are in a man, which is what the Ten Directives are dealing with, i.e.
Desire of;
- Hierarchy
- Materialism
- Vanity
- Preoccupation
- Self-preservation of kin
- Domination
- Sexuality (promiscuity)
- Greed
- Exaggeration
- Jealousy - get what your neighbor has
That you lack knowledge and think something else about these lines is not my problem. You are as fooled as everyone else and think Moses brought belief in a god. No, he brought people into ascending their minds by making people become truly being. In the traditional Bible the only remnant of his teaching is "I am who I am" because apparently the deluded clergymen could translate the simple "heyeh ashar heyeh" at least. What is meant by that is "to be is to be being" or in religious terms "God is who God is", i.e. if you decide to be God YOU ARE God, but there are some things to observe first and that is the bodily influence and for that you have a remedy in the Ten Directives. Just search for a mental way to NO hierarchy, NO materialism, NO vanity, NO preoccupation, NO self-preservation of kin, NO domination, NO sexuality, NO greed, No exaggeration, NO jealously and you cease being the animal in which you reside and you can build on your true being, the one you truly are.
The list has a definite purpose and is not just a meaningless law. It lists all of the human instinctive wants which the wise person stays away from.
I could call anyone including you who could not figure out what I did an idiot, but I have not because I am clement and watch my arrogance.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Have you seen the ten commandments, an idiot could have thought of a better list of commandments, one that would have removed all excuse for the horrors of religion, hierarchy, usury, etc., but no we are supposed to believe the god of Moses had no clue and wrote a half assed list?
Moses did not invent belief in God, belief in God (my hypothesis) is natural to our existence, god and gods are mentioned in the earliest preserved writings, including the Epic of Gilgamesh. You are obviously mad at the whole world, the servant of despise.
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Well the ten commandments of the bible are written for an idiot and by an idiot, you changing them out of embarrassment is another issue, clearly Christians enjoy hierarchy, materialism, domination, and greed, and they have done throughout their history, so although you claim the commandments are, your list, the ones in their bible are the issue and they are not your list.
Moses never existed, none of the bullshit of the bible has any relevance, it is very, very unlikely any of it is true historically, it gives no guidance in forming anarchic community, removing usury, removing sovereigns and laws, no truth of any worth, on the other hand, it has been the most blood thirsty religion in history, insane numbers of souls have suffered poverty, torture, death, and a life time of suffering through the application of that book.
If Moses and Moses's god actually did exist he would have been better off burning Moses not the bush, and never allowing the bible to be writtten.