Are these scientific mistakes ???
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Thanks. I agree on zina and similar concepts, including riba (usury), can be a wider concept than it is usually percieved.
If it sounds primitive and lowly, your common sense is bound to be correct.
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Peace, yes, so? I've never said there is no punishment.
Peace, never said you said there is no punishment.
What puzzled me last few days why scribe/s wrote punishment with alif other places without?
Their system was to distinguish when refers to individual no alif and to group written with alif.
https//s26.postimg.org/g0h8w9ip5/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch25v35-45.jpg
https//s26.postimg.org/3y82ww5bd/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch33v62-72.jpg
Modern texts consistently use alif ignore nuance which scribes of old were more cognizant.
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Don't doubt your Lord's Words
Research high altitude balloons and rockets and do not presume the current paradigm you believe is even near to correct. Once you remove all your biases and expectations and open your mind and heart to God's indication you might see clearly it is exactly as He citesIf you can actually come up with a correct map for the flat earth model taking into account the real distances between locations and not any sort of projections issued from the globe model, I'd be forced to accept it, for the moment I'll stay neutral...
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Peace, all the words are there along with punishment mentioned...
I think we again fell under the influence of our preconceived notion. I reread the verses on lashing. There is something we all missed. 4 witnesses won't be enough. They also have to take an oath
And the fifth that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars.247
That's similar to the one I asked from both Bukharists and atheists only to see them consistently discontinue their conversation with me after that on why what they believed was right.
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Witnesses, of course, must be questionned and their respective testimony checked against each other and any other testimony or evidence. Besides, nobody is obliged to testify. The accuser must find the witnesses and make them testify, no institution is bound to do such job and nobody can be forced to act as witnesses. It is all upon the accuser to get the witnesses.
Salaam
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Witnesses, of course, must be questionned and their respective testimony checked against each other and any other testimony or evidence. Besides, nobody is obliged to testify. The accuser must find the witnesses and make them testify, no institution is bound to do such job and nobody can be forced to act as witnesses. It is all upon the accuser to get the witnesses.
Salaam
That's the loophole being used in countries that have lashing punishment for rapists. It is rare for women to find a witness. The consequence is the state lashing them with the excuse of false accusations they are putting on the rapists. But as we have seen earlier, not even atheists are comfortable taking an oath like the one in 247.
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But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
In that case it is not a natural difficulty but an act of corruption all right. The question then would nto be the Qur'an but the state of a society for which justice simply is not such but another means of oppression. That is a rotten society.
Salaam
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Peace,
But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
Where is the punishment for rape outlined in The Reading according to you? Clearly we can see the punishment for theft, for instance in 538.
Also, there have been countless accusations of rape which were simply not true - especailly in the West and specifically the USA. I am guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised that women at least in the USA report rape at a higher rate than it actually happens. The (third-wave) feminist movement is the primary reason for this pushing their "rape culture" myth and telling women to be slutty and claiming it's ok to feel like having been raped by just regretting sex with a stranger. E.g. "I am a slut and regret having sex with that guy. Rape!" Or "What if my boyfriend finds out that I am a slut and cheated on him... Oh yeah I will just accuse that guy I slept with of rape!" It's easy for females, and courts are in favor of females not just in cases of rape/sexual harrassment in the U.S. such as the child custody, alimony, lower prison sentences for crimes (not looked too much into this though,) etc.
What do you mean by "that is a crime, like murder and theft (sic)" - does that comma imply that you are saying that "zina" is not a crime or that rape is a crime like theft and murder - and what do you mean by that?
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Look at what the Qur'an provides for agression or oppression, it would be by that standard that rape should be measured a crime. Zina is nto a crime, it is a civil offence or whatever you want to call, a private undetaking of the accuser of zina not something that the courts should pursue at their own initiative, as it is clearly expounded in sura An-nur.
5.38 do not speak about a punishment but as to an action that should be undertaken to prevent thieves to keep doing it.
And what do you mean whethr rape is a crime? Is it not? In that case ,I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying.
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And what do you mean whethr rape is a crime? Is it not? In that case ,I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying.
Are you mentally ill? I asked for your definitions and your views. I almost expected a deranged answer from you. You dont know me. Alas, you will get judged - I will not get caught up with you.
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There are no punishments in the Qur'an. What is the punishment for shitting in the public places? What is the punishment for financial scams or speculations? What are the punishment for gazzilion of other civil, economic and criminal offences? There are none. All these punishments "prescribed" for thieves and adultures are a product of biased minds and mistranslations. Qur'an is NOT meant as a book for capital punishment, or as a constitution, or as a state. It is a book with a message for personal development. Only psychopaths and deluded will be looking at it and seek for punishments. Qur'an has no punishments, everything bad or good what happens around us is a product of our actions and the actions of others, which can be test for us.
I will give you an example of zakat, which in no way is a silly yearly tax as they want you to think, it is a far wider concept of both purity and mercy (depends on the context where it is, either ata al zakat/maintain purity or forgive in zakata/have mercy). And why do you think a book, which was severely mistranslated for ages, and which contains such powerful concepts, which in turn have been greatly understated by the clergy, would want you to act like an animal and punish someone with hundred lashes, or cutting of hands even for thieves? Wake up, you don't have any property therefore you can't even think of punishments. Try not paying taxes see what happens, if you live in the private house. In case you live in apartments, pfff..you don't have any property even your walls belong to the apartment union or a district and not your family even though you might think you "own" the apartment legally. There is nothing you own and there is nothing to protect, but having mercy and resisting your instincts, including the instincts related to revenge, is an ultimate goal of a believer, even if his/her relative is killed (545, 391-391.
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Are you mentally ill? I asked for your definitions and your views. I almost expected a deranged answer from you. You dont know me. Alas, you will get judged - I will not get caught up with you.
What? Your rants against women do get an answer? How shoking. Your rants against women. It is anybody's good right to carry on against them. How dare I give you your own medicine?
Salaam
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Are you mentally ill? I asked for your definitions and your views. I almost expected a deranged answer from you. You dont know me. Alas, you will get judged - I will not get caught up with you.
What kind of answer is that? Huruf answered it quite well.
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But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
In that case it is not a natural difficulty but an act of corruption all right. The question then would nto be the Qur'an but the state of a society for which justice simply is not such but another means of oppression. That is a rotten society.
Salaam
Absolutely right.
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If you are raped, it is possible to often find traces of sperm in a woman and analyze it and track it to the rapist. In that case no other testimony than the woman is required to convict the rapist, but of course having additional witnesses help in determining the sinister motive of the rapist.
Even in the past, requiring more than one additional witness is just illogical and where the four witnesses come from is not consistent.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
If you are raped, it is possible to often find traces of sperm in a woman and analyze it and track it to the rapist.
Except they had no such forensic knowledge or skills back then.
There are verses about mandatory chastity in regards to guarding one's private parts and glances to remain modest, so obviously rape and fornication are forbidden. But there is no punishment prescribed for possible rape.
There is however an allaged punishment of 100 lashes for adulterers, who I suppose are married.
Well, she can say she did not commit adultery but instead it was rape, as many women often tell nowadays, as pointed out by progressive1993. How in such case one is to be judged and who will be judged?
Punishments in Qur'an are so vague and ambiguous, I am almost certain they are of translational bias and one certainly "needs" "sunna", "hadith" and the "sharia" in order to prescribe punishments.
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The lashes, which are not meant to be executed, and other details of the injunctions of sura An-Nur are a direct indication of the degree of moral depravity that makes people to commit zina.
It is not trivial question. It is playing with a sacred trust and it is of a higher clibre even than perjury. It is indeed a perjury against our own self and truth.
But, according to the Qur'an, it is a corruption that God gives us opportunity to correct in our intimacy without having slanderers and vultures ourselves without awful punishments. God's gives us intimacy to have the time and space to redress our wrongs without town criers making us the shame of the place. That is God's will and injunctions, not to have anybody lashed to death or to exhaustion.
If we want to put somebody on the pillory, we have to take that responsability wholly upon ourselves. God does not condone it nor wishes to encourge at all on us that means streak. Quite the opposite, parading that is spreading fahisha. Fahisha,not just commit fahisha but spread it.
Salaam
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Except they had no such forensic knowledge or skills back then.
There are verses about mandatory chastity in regards to guarding one's private parts and glances to remain modest, so obviously rape and fornication are forbidden. But there is no punishment prescribed for possible rape.
There is however an allaged punishment of 100 lashes for adulterers, who I suppose are married.
Well, she can say she did not commit adultery but instead it was rape, as many women often tell nowadays, as pointed out by progressive1993. How in such case one is to be judged and who will be judged?
Punishments in Qur'an are so vague and ambiguous, I am almost certain they are of translational bias and one certainly "needs" "sunna", "hadith" and the "sharia" in order to prescribe punishments.
That is why it is more logical not to punish physically at all if someone commits adultery. No one is physically hurt by an adultery and the old law says "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", meaning the punishment for the adulterer should be mental since the suffering is mental for the victim. It is because of the victim(s) of the adultery there is a reason to punish at all if it is a must.
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That is why it is more logical not to punish physically at all if someone commits adultery. No one is physically hurt by an adultery and the old law says "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", meaning the punishment for the adulterer should be mental since the suffering is mental for the victim. It is because of the victim(s) of the adultery there is a reason to punish at all if it is a must.
We are talking about chapter 24. Please read it if you haven't and then repeat what you just said. No offence, but what you or huruf have just said have zero logical or textual basis in accordance with the chapter full of punishments and also verses on following the messenger.
Logic my ass...
As for an eye for an eye verse then that is verse 545 and it is an ultimate test for the believer as the verse also talks about forgiving in charity (zakat) as an option, which most people won't abide to but would rather punish someone or demand retribution in turn.
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The lashes, which are not meant to be executed, and other details of the injunctions of sura An-Nur are a direct indication of the degree of moral depravity that makes people to commit zina.
It is not trivial question. It is playing with a sacred trust and it is of a higher clibre even than perjury. It is indeed a perjury against our own self and truth.
But, according to the Qur'an, it is a corruption that God gives us opportunity to correct in our intimacy without having slanderers and vultures ourselves without awful punishments. God's gives us intimacy to have the time and space to redress our wrongs without town criers making us the shame of the place. That is God's will and injunctions, not to have anybody lashed to death or to exhaustion.
If we want to put somebody on the pillory, we have to take that responsability wholly upon ourselves. God does not condone it nor wishes to encourge at all on us that means streak. Quite the opposite, parading that is spreading fahisha. Fahisha,not just commit fahisha but spread it.
Do you want free master-class on how you can shorten posts like this huruf? It will save you time as well as save time to someone reading your posts, an awesome skill indeed. When you write something pointless like that in response to something clear simply shorten it down to blah blah blah.
Don't thank me.