Are these scientific mistakes ???
-
Look at what the Qur'an provides for agression or oppression, it would be by that standard that rape should be measured a crime. Zina is nto a crime, it is a civil offence or whatever you want to call, a private undetaking of the accuser of zina not something that the courts should pursue at their own initiative, as it is clearly expounded in sura An-nur.
5.38 do not speak about a punishment but as to an action that should be undertaken to prevent thieves to keep doing it.
And what do you mean whethr rape is a crime? Is it not? In that case ,I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying.
-
And what do you mean whethr rape is a crime? Is it not? In that case ,I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying.
Are you mentally ill? I asked for your definitions and your views. I almost expected a deranged answer from you. You dont know me. Alas, you will get judged - I will not get caught up with you.
-
There are no punishments in the Qur'an. What is the punishment for shitting in the public places? What is the punishment for financial scams or speculations? What are the punishment for gazzilion of other civil, economic and criminal offences? There are none. All these punishments "prescribed" for thieves and adultures are a product of biased minds and mistranslations. Qur'an is NOT meant as a book for capital punishment, or as a constitution, or as a state. It is a book with a message for personal development. Only psychopaths and deluded will be looking at it and seek for punishments. Qur'an has no punishments, everything bad or good what happens around us is a product of our actions and the actions of others, which can be test for us.
I will give you an example of zakat, which in no way is a silly yearly tax as they want you to think, it is a far wider concept of both purity and mercy (depends on the context where it is, either ata al zakat/maintain purity or forgive in zakata/have mercy). And why do you think a book, which was severely mistranslated for ages, and which contains such powerful concepts, which in turn have been greatly understated by the clergy, would want you to act like an animal and punish someone with hundred lashes, or cutting of hands even for thieves? Wake up, you don't have any property therefore you can't even think of punishments. Try not paying taxes see what happens, if you live in the private house. In case you live in apartments, pfff..you don't have any property even your walls belong to the apartment union or a district and not your family even though you might think you "own" the apartment legally. There is nothing you own and there is nothing to protect, but having mercy and resisting your instincts, including the instincts related to revenge, is an ultimate goal of a believer, even if his/her relative is killed (545, 391-391.
-
Are you mentally ill? I asked for your definitions and your views. I almost expected a deranged answer from you. You dont know me. Alas, you will get judged - I will not get caught up with you.
What? Your rants against women do get an answer? How shoking. Your rants against women. It is anybody's good right to carry on against them. How dare I give you your own medicine?
Salaam
-
Are you mentally ill? I asked for your definitions and your views. I almost expected a deranged answer from you. You dont know me. Alas, you will get judged - I will not get caught up with you.
What kind of answer is that? Huruf answered it quite well.
-
But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
In that case it is not a natural difficulty but an act of corruption all right. The question then would nto be the Qur'an but the state of a society for which justice simply is not such but another means of oppression. That is a rotten society.
Salaam
Absolutely right.
-
If you are raped, it is possible to often find traces of sperm in a woman and analyze it and track it to the rapist. In that case no other testimony than the woman is required to convict the rapist, but of course having additional witnesses help in determining the sinister motive of the rapist.
Even in the past, requiring more than one additional witness is just illogical and where the four witnesses come from is not consistent.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
If you are raped, it is possible to often find traces of sperm in a woman and analyze it and track it to the rapist.
Except they had no such forensic knowledge or skills back then.
There are verses about mandatory chastity in regards to guarding one's private parts and glances to remain modest, so obviously rape and fornication are forbidden. But there is no punishment prescribed for possible rape.
There is however an allaged punishment of 100 lashes for adulterers, who I suppose are married.
Well, she can say she did not commit adultery but instead it was rape, as many women often tell nowadays, as pointed out by progressive1993. How in such case one is to be judged and who will be judged?
Punishments in Qur'an are so vague and ambiguous, I am almost certain they are of translational bias and one certainly "needs" "sunna", "hadith" and the "sharia" in order to prescribe punishments.
-
The lashes, which are not meant to be executed, and other details of the injunctions of sura An-Nur are a direct indication of the degree of moral depravity that makes people to commit zina.
It is not trivial question. It is playing with a sacred trust and it is of a higher clibre even than perjury. It is indeed a perjury against our own self and truth.
But, according to the Qur'an, it is a corruption that God gives us opportunity to correct in our intimacy without having slanderers and vultures ourselves without awful punishments. God's gives us intimacy to have the time and space to redress our wrongs without town criers making us the shame of the place. That is God's will and injunctions, not to have anybody lashed to death or to exhaustion.
If we want to put somebody on the pillory, we have to take that responsability wholly upon ourselves. God does not condone it nor wishes to encourge at all on us that means streak. Quite the opposite, parading that is spreading fahisha. Fahisha,not just commit fahisha but spread it.
Salaam
-
Except they had no such forensic knowledge or skills back then.
There are verses about mandatory chastity in regards to guarding one's private parts and glances to remain modest, so obviously rape and fornication are forbidden. But there is no punishment prescribed for possible rape.
There is however an allaged punishment of 100 lashes for adulterers, who I suppose are married.
Well, she can say she did not commit adultery but instead it was rape, as many women often tell nowadays, as pointed out by progressive1993. How in such case one is to be judged and who will be judged?
Punishments in Qur'an are so vague and ambiguous, I am almost certain they are of translational bias and one certainly "needs" "sunna", "hadith" and the "sharia" in order to prescribe punishments.
That is why it is more logical not to punish physically at all if someone commits adultery. No one is physically hurt by an adultery and the old law says "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", meaning the punishment for the adulterer should be mental since the suffering is mental for the victim. It is because of the victim(s) of the adultery there is a reason to punish at all if it is a must.
-
That is why it is more logical not to punish physically at all if someone commits adultery. No one is physically hurt by an adultery and the old law says "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", meaning the punishment for the adulterer should be mental since the suffering is mental for the victim. It is because of the victim(s) of the adultery there is a reason to punish at all if it is a must.
We are talking about chapter 24. Please read it if you haven't and then repeat what you just said. No offence, but what you or huruf have just said have zero logical or textual basis in accordance with the chapter full of punishments and also verses on following the messenger.
Logic my ass...
As for an eye for an eye verse then that is verse 545 and it is an ultimate test for the believer as the verse also talks about forgiving in charity (zakat) as an option, which most people won't abide to but would rather punish someone or demand retribution in turn.
-
The lashes, which are not meant to be executed, and other details of the injunctions of sura An-Nur are a direct indication of the degree of moral depravity that makes people to commit zina.
It is not trivial question. It is playing with a sacred trust and it is of a higher clibre even than perjury. It is indeed a perjury against our own self and truth.
But, according to the Qur'an, it is a corruption that God gives us opportunity to correct in our intimacy without having slanderers and vultures ourselves without awful punishments. God's gives us intimacy to have the time and space to redress our wrongs without town criers making us the shame of the place. That is God's will and injunctions, not to have anybody lashed to death or to exhaustion.
If we want to put somebody on the pillory, we have to take that responsability wholly upon ourselves. God does not condone it nor wishes to encourge at all on us that means streak. Quite the opposite, parading that is spreading fahisha. Fahisha,not just commit fahisha but spread it.
Do you want free master-class on how you can shorten posts like this huruf? It will save you time as well as save time to someone reading your posts, an awesome skill indeed. When you write something pointless like that in response to something clear simply shorten it down to blah blah blah.
Don't thank me.
-
We are talking about chapter 24. Please read it if you haven't and then repeat what you just said. No offence, but what you or huruf have just said have zero logical or textual basis in accordance with the chapter full of punishments and also verses on following the messenger.
Logic my ass...
As for an eye for an eye verse then that is verse 545 and it is an ultimate test for the believer as the verse also talks about forgiving in charity (zakat) as an option, which most people won't abide to but would rather punish someone or demand retribution in turn.
You are somewhat correct, but just because something allegedly says a thing does not mean it has any truth in it. I give a damned about what some writing says if it is against logic. Logic prevails over what some sources say.
I gave reasons for why it is stupid to require four witnesses among other things. The traditional interpretation is stupid. It is stupid why you should punish an adulterer with lashes when the old law said eye for an eye.
-
Also I gave my input on the verses in discussion previously.
-
And I put forth arguments on the word at hand which was lashes. Now probability is included in logic and how seriously would you take a sentence with so many problems. I could discuss it further, but I have no interest in doing it with you.
As for rendering the passage I will not do here and your show of attitude suggests a person of people I am not interested in. Flawed behavior is an imperfection, so come back when you have made the step ahead of it.
-
As for rendering the passage I will not do here and your show of attitude suggests a person of people I am not interested in. Flawed behavior is an imperfection, so come back when you have made the step ahead of it.
Mr.Perfect, accusing someone of "flawed" behavior while wishing to rape a man so that he can "choose" to abort or not. I don't see logic in that, in fact I am thinking you are a little bit nuts. You do realize that the guy's stand was merely religious so that he might have suggested it is not good to kill an unborn even because of rape? And what was your argument?
Now, since you claim you rely on "logic" that much, don't forget that it is you who claims that God deludes the people deliberately, then how should she act in case she got pregrant from an actual rape? And rape happens not only among prostitutes but also modest women, albeit much less often. Where is logic in your words compared to what you believe in?
-
Sorry guys, both you Huruf and Progressive are right about rape. You two are looking at two sensitive trends happening as a result of how people pretend to think too casually about sex. Let me go little on both
Rape victims not getting justice
This is absolutely true. We have fraternity rape factories which often get away with that crime because of rich fathers and the power these factories have on cops and universities. But of course, casual attitude on sex makes rapes much easier and since we humans are programmed to impulsively generalize, all women are put in the same bucket. Rape victims go through a lot of emotional trauma.Men being trapped in false rape charges
This is also now quite common. Some ended up committing suicide for not being able to handle all the abuses their peers and neighbors performed on them because of such charges. The cases usually come as a result of drunk one night stands. In the morning, the women start feeling bad about what happened and just call 911. In some cases, when the boyfriend breaks up they feel used for sex and do the same.Humans are simply in denial that they are not programmed to accept casual sex like the animals. Mixed messages of men and women are responsible for all the issues you two are raising. They won?t be solved unless the world goes back to making sex exclusive to marriage only. Surprisingly, one study I was going through said 75% of girls didn?t want sex in the relationship, but they surrendered to keep their men. On the other hand, men no more can tell the difference between rape and sex. They feel offended when the date says she is a born again virgin.
One group has to back down to solve this unneeded problem of mixed messages and hurt feelings. Don't be hard on each other. You two see how both the genders are suffering but your stands on the issues won?t show the dawn because neither the men nor the women directly involved in such thing are ready to take the step.
Edit Society never seems to recover from double standard. Men are raped also by both women and men. But this is considered "funny" for which the topic doesn't get the kind of attention it deserves.
-
Look at what the Qur'an provides for agression or oppression, it would be by that standard that rape should be measured a crime. Zina is nto a crime, it is a civil offence or whatever you want to call, a private undetaking of the accuser of zina not something that the courts should pursue at their own initiative, as it is clearly expounded in sura An-nur.
5.38 do not speak about a punishment but as to an action that should be undertaken to prevent thieves to keep doing it.
And what do you mean whethr rape is a crime? Is it not? In that case ,I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying.
Produce your witnesses, you animal. Why are you not banned yet? Let us see the example in the Quran for this kind of behavior.
2411 Those who have brought forth the false accusation were a group from within you. Do not think it is bad for you, for it is good for you. Every person amongst them will have what he deserves of the sin. As for he who had the greatest portion of it, he will have a great retribution.
2412 If only when you heard it the acknowledging men and women should have thought good of themselves and said "This is an obvious lie!"
2413 If only they had brought four witnesses to it. If they did not have the witnesses, then these with God are the liars.
2414 Had it not been for God's favor upon you and His mercy upon you in this world and the Hereafter, a great retribution would have touched you for what you have spoken.
2415 For you have cast it with your tongues, and you say with your mouths what you have no knowledge of, and you think it is a minor issue, while with God it was serious.
2416 When you heard it you should have said "It was not right for us to speak of this. Glory to You, this is a gross falsehood."
2417 God warns you not to repeat something similar to this ever, if you are acknowledgers.
58 O you who acknowledge, stand for God as witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to awareness, and be aware of God. God is Expert over what you do.
-
The thread is now locked. Please don't derail threads. PM the mods for clarification. Thanks.