Those who are overly emotional, disrespectful, and judgmental
-
Greetings dear forum members,
If you read and want to respond, I would like you to please read this post in full.
I have noticed lately, there have been quite a few people here who are absolutely arrogant, stubborn and violent. Three of those examples are huruf, Man_of_Faith and HP_Tech. See what I am talking about here
huruf's arrogance and vileness "I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying." In her poorly written English she asserts that I am a rapist and hopes that I do get raped. Abominable! I will not tolerate this character assassination and stand up for my rights. You don't know me. Note I was inviting her into a discussion on the Quranic view on rape and what the punishment was according to the Quran with proof, yet she ignored this, just turned violent and emotional and responded accordingly.
Similarly, Man_of_Faith and huruf attacked HP_Tech claiming something similar. Man_of_Faith said "Nearly wish I could rape HP_TECH and leave him pregnant though" and "if you would wish to keep the child from which egg I, the rapist, fertilized with my sperm." and not to mention some of his logical fallacies in that thread that he never addressed/rectified properly
I know how HP_Tech can get, he himself has been hateful, ignorant and extremely arrogant and hateful towards me just the other day, merely for holding a different interpretation than he does. In fact he condemned me to punishment for holding a different opinion, claimed I am a liar, etc. After reading his arrogant and ignorant statements again just now, I just saw that he even played the race card - i.e. insiuated that I was being racist against him! Just because I ignored his baseless attack at first or whatever.
HP_Tech further cursed and slandered against me for simply saying that the moderator "The_Nabi" had "some good points" when discussing free speech among groups such as white nationalists, hypocrisy in media coverage, etc. See here. Funny how I was attacked for that comment because I engaged with him and he did not (dare?) say a word directly to the moderator.
Now, I was just reading The Reading and writing another post while I was listening to Sam Gerrans' vidoes on Youtube, and I like them. I agree with him on many issues regarding The Reading, religion - not the "islam" in The Reading, politics and economics. However, I just listened to his talk on his take on 434 and his justification of wife beating. Now, when I say justification, what that really means is hearing him ramble, drivel, drool with saliva all over his microphone (literally) and just being charged with emotion. I get it, he is against the feminist agenda, against the homosexual agenda, etc. Personally I agree with him on that.
However, I was appalled by his rant - yes, rant. In his rant, he was an example of what it means to not only be charged with emotions, but also to dismiss and even condemn people who have different opinions! He basically says that those who disagree that it says to "beat your wife" are following the shaytan, are ignorant, are cultural marxists, modernists, etc. What a load of emotional rubbish. He then also basically claims that it is good and healthy for men to beat their wives and women need a man like that. He discussed this point especially as well as the others for about half of his talk. I turned off his talk about a minute and a half before it ended because it was too much emotional drivel and he had repeated himself for what felt like the 10th time.
Personally, I would have found his interpretation to be acceptable if he simply said "I think nushuz means haughtiness and idribuhunna means beat them because of the evidence xyz from The Quran and I think this is in line with human nature because of xyz." Fine. There you go. You presented your evidence and your opinion. I care about the truth - not emotion. If he is right then so be it, but to ramble on about how women and men are and how his interpretation is good because it's against cultural marxism, and how those who disagree are ignorant and are following the shaytan (or whatever he said along those lines) is unacceptable. Instead of rationally explaining, he also talked down on all who oppose his view, made excessive generalizations about men and women - of which they are true only to a degree - and in my opinion exceeded the limits of rational interpretation and discussion.
Going back to the forum discussions, I remember years ago, we used to have some heated debates - but they were productive and based on reason and mutual respect for the most part. Things have changed around here. It is up to all of us to change this - all of us, including myself. Differing opions are what makes this forum great and constructive arguments and respect for differing opinion is a must and what made the forum better in the past. Time to get back on it.
Don't get overly emotional and learn to accept and rationally discuss ideas that you find radical and/or unacceptable. It may do you good (if God so wishes.)
Alas, I am finished with this post. Lots of time and energy spent that could have gone into the post I was in the process of typing and put a lot of thought into. Still, these basic principles are very important.
16125 Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.
2946 Do not argue with the people of the law/writ except in the best manner; except for those who are wicked amongst them; and say, "We acknowledge what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we peacefully surrender."
4910 Those who acknowledge are but brothers; so reconcile between your brothers, and be aware of God, that you may receive mercy.
Please take heed. Peace!
-
Peace,
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609716.0 - Gerran's sucks badly on 434 despite some other aspects of his work, namely zakat, are decent. He is an arrogant tin foil conspiracy freak and his translation is not unbiased, since he is also a devoted flat eather he translates certain verses to force his position on flat earth.
Qur'an usually adds an object where the talk is about hitting. Such as in 260 Moses is told to strike with his staff the stone, in 3793 there is a "blow with right hand", in 850 angels are striking faces and backs. In 434 - nothing. So daraba in 434 is a lot more ambiguous if we use hit rather than leave which fits perfectly in the context, unlike hitting.
Also, since we talk about domestic problem solving, how so it does not add an object to "hit", such as which part of her body shall he hit, with what? Obviously when a spouse is hitting another spouse there is a tense atmosphere and both are being emotional so they might not really pay attention to what they do or say, in such a case it is very important to watch your language or your actions, since the situation can get out of control easily during arguments. Therefore it is highly strange it does not specify HOW to beat the wife, he can easily beat her to death using Gerran's explanation.
I don't care about someone hitting a wife, it is her problem, and in most cases they deserve it even if they do nothing wrong, but in latter they deserve it because they deliberately marry pigs with brutal attitude, since women are attracted to such behavior. I am however concerned with the Qur'an, I know it was severely mistranslated in Arabic due to the huge influence of syriac in the region, while Arabic seldom had any writings or grammar until the Qur'an.
P.S. Also about the "since the obey you" part. Qur'an in almost all instances where it talks about punishment gives an option to forgive and 434 is not a step by step verse as traditional pigs would like it to be read, i.e. it does not say First advice, then leave her in bed, then beat, then etc. It is an option thing, so seek nothing against them is an option, and 435 is divorce procedure. Qur'an is the test, how will you act in certain situations, it deliberately decieves the reader.
And huruf's post for some reason are associated with an "empowered" "independent" woman of black origin, a single mom in ghetto who, when apporached by men (not males) with a reasonable apporach automatically acts like "yo who do fk u think u talkin 2 ng?? i aint yo fkn property nga!!11!!" Poor girl...feel almost sad for her.
-
It was not an attack really, it was more to make HP_TECH reflect on what he was saying in response to that women who are raped should keep the rapist's child in the uterus. Now I cannot rape HP_TECH and make him pregnant can I, unless he can surgically insert a uterus into his male body or in some other way become a female. However, others were apparently taking it emotionally including HP_TECH who did not respond on the moral aspect of the analogy.
But logical fallacies I have not, I have made sure I am not logically incorrect through much contemplation before I open my mouth. My whole life I pressure hard on a high level of logic.
However, I think you should somehow get involved in the discussions using logic instead of some stupid understanding from the 7th century and use your intelligence.
-
Peace,
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609716.0 - Gerran's sucks badly on 434 despite some other aspects of his work, namely zakat, are decent. He is an arrogant tin foil conspiracy freak and his translation is not unbiased, since he is also a devoted flat eather he translates certain verses to force his position on flat earth.
And huruf's post for some reason are associated with an "empowered" "independent" woman of black origin, a single mom in ghetto who, when apporached by men (not males) with a reasonable apporach automatically acts like "yo who do fk u think u talkin 2 ng?? i aint yo fkn property nga!!11!!" Poor girl...feel almost sad for her.
Avoid backbiting, and suspicion as per verse 4912.
Earth is flat.
Peace.
https//media.giphy.com/media/3CtgQqm8qJdFC/giphy.gif -
Avoid backbiting, and suspicion as per verse 4912.
Earth is flat.
Peace.
https//media.giphy.com/media/3CtgQqm8qJdFC/giphy.gifThank you faith for your words. I do not think earth is flat, but I do think that it is far better to hold such idea than to have a flat mind and to show a mean character.
However I can't deny that I am having great laughs with certain flat and mean expressions, they are so comic.
Salaam, brother.
-
Going back to the forum discussions, I remember years ago, we used to have some heated debates - but they were productive and based on reason and mutual respect for the most part. Things have changed around here. It is up to all of us to change this - all of us, including myself. Differing opions are what makes this forum great and constructive arguments and respect for differing opinion is a must and what made the forum better in the past. Time to get back on it.
Thank you faith for your words. I do not think earth is flat, but I do think that it is far better to hold such idea than to have a flat mind and to show a mean character.
However I can't deny that I am having great laughs with certain flat and mean expressions, they are so comic.
Salaam, brother.
It was not an attack really, it was more to make HP_TECH reflect on what he was saying in response to that women who are raped should keep the rapist's child in the uterus. Now I cannot rape HP_TECH and make him pregnant can I, unless he can surgically insert a uterus into his male body or in some other way become a female. However, others were apparently taking it emotionally including HP_TECH who did not respond on the moral aspect of the analogy.
But logical fallacies I have not, I have made sure I am not logically incorrect through much contemplation before I open my mouth. My whole life I pressure hard on a high level of logic.
However, I think you should somehow get involved in the discussions using logic instead of some stupid understanding from the 7th century and use your intelligence.
Come on people, do a group hug.
group
What I noticed was that there was simply a two way misunderstanding between you and huruf about rape and zina. Truth is that both of you consider them as crime. But it was lost in translation. Each of us experience reality in individual way. Most of the disagreements come from that. All of you demonstrate sincere willingness to interpret the Quran and you have been helpful in that all the time. Please remind yourselves thatYou all are needed here.
-
Salaam reel and all,
I appreciate and praise you willingness to bring peace, however, while I completely agree on peace and understanding, I do not think that it should be attained at the cost of pushing the dirt under the carpet.
There are real conflicts. Progressive has stated several things put on many women for which I obviously do not want to start a war, but also I cannot keep silent.
This keeping on about women like throwing on them that they invent that they are raped is no joke.
Here in Spain there is also that male chauvinist campaign, and I do not say male chauvinist for the sake of adding meaningless epithets, but because in fact it is a real planned campaign by that kind of loose associations which are made possible by the internet and which pick and push dirt and falsehood. I has been a very common and frequent content on the net and social nets (fb, twitter, etc.) to publish continuously that women accused any man of rape regularly for whatever reasons. Well, after going through the whole amount of rape cases the amounts of those false accusations was of the order of 0.00x%. With that they were creating an atmosphere of disdain and suspicion for rape complaints and pushing judges to be more careless or lenient when it came to pronouncing veredicts or penlties, while at the same time giving fuel to the defence of rapists.It is very rare, indeed, that a woman would accuse of rape if she was not raped. Far more frequent is that they are raped and just don't have the strength left to accuse. Finally the onus of proof still falls on her and it starts with the extremely pleasant experience of going straight to a medical station where she can be thoroughly examined inside an outside. Real fun, and then, who in her sane mind would want to go through painful and trying court proceedings where they can be found guilty of false witnessing if they lie.
The way progressive presents the case makes it appear that the judges or courts int he United states give veredicts just for fun as soon as the woman accuser opens her mouth. I have trouble bilieving that, so may be I would need more testimony on that count than mere obviously emotionally moved utterances from a single person.
Progressive seems to have a deal of problems concerning women and concerning other things. If it is so, I am sorry for him, but unburdening his soul on other people who are not guilt of anything towards him, like those who might be participants or visitors in this forum is not going to solve his conflicts. If I were in such a situation I woul like to be able to confront those conflicts objectively and effectively instead of carrying them around forever. It is not sane nor helpful to live in that kind of company for a long time, although that kind of suffering some times is very much enjoyed by the sufferer, to the point of not wanting to get rid of it.
So, please, yes rape is a crime and it is always done against women. If men could be raped by women I do not want even to think of how many women would be falsely accused and put in prison with far more diligence than is the case with men. Finally they regularly they were falsely accused of having aborted when abortion was crime.
Also, there is another thing that progressive and other men do and which I cannot and do not want to approve or condone, and it is as if they always spoke not only on behalf of themselves, but on behalf of all males, poor them that suffer the perfidy or abuse of women, like that, in general.
I try always to make it clear that I do not put men in a bunch. They are not in a bunch. Men, like women, human beings, are each his or her own. The whinnings or the bad or good deeds of any of them are not shared with all the others. I think I have made it clear more than a few times that there are good men, excellent men, who far from being enemies or pests of women, are the opposite, real qawwamoon, as the Qur'an enjoins. I maintain that, but then, good men do not go around throwing mud at women. Nor go around accusing women of being anti men because they say some men or some of the men are or do not behave as they should. That is, the antiwomen men hide behind all men to attack women, but nobody, at least not I aacuses all men of anything, quite the opposite, I keep saying that what those men do is just them and that there are many decent men who are quite innocent of the kind of behaviour of which they are quite innocent.
Salaam
-
Huruf,
You have a "Us vs Them" mentality that I do not want to engage in because it is sick. Certainly men can get sexually assaulted by women. There have been cases of rape. And moreover, men get raped much more than women because of prison rape and gays raping men and boys - priest scandals ring a bell? Sodom? Your comments are still filled with emnity, emotion and bias. You have displayed your character, so be it. In fact, you are so biased, you did not even read my question properly in that thread and just went to rage and said something disgusting and gross. Shame on you. May you turn back from this, if God wills. If you don't it is your life/soul - do what you want, but I can see what you are like.
-
Huruf,
You have a "Us vs Them" mentality that I do not want to engage in because it is sick. Certainly men can get sexually assaulted by women. There have been cases of rape. And moreover, men get raped much more than women because of prison rape and gays raping men and boys - priest scandals ring a bell? Sodom? Your comments are still filled with emnity, emotion and bias. You have displayed your character, so be it. In fact, you are so biased, you did not even read my question properly in that thread and just went to rage and said something disgusting and gross. Shame on you. May you turn back from this, if God wills. If you don't it is your life/soul - do what you want, but I can see what you are like.
That all came to you when you saw yourself in the mirror?
-
Peace
I am following this topic with shock.Makavelli is rude,Obscene and vulgar.it is hurufs greatness that she laughed it off.
The last post of Progressive 1933 is so mean and spiteful,calling her 'Sick'.Totally unquranic behaviour.
Grow up boys.
Mods please step in.
Peace
Javed -
Peace
I am following this topic with shock.Makavelli is rude,Obscene and vulgar.it is hurufs greatness that she laughed it off.
The last post of Progressive 1933 is so mean and spiteful,calling her 'Sick'.Totally unquranic behaviour.
Grow up boys.
Mods please step in.
Peace
JavedMore false accusations. I did not call her sick. Read! I think mods should have stepped in when huruf called me a rapist and wished for me to get raped. On top of that she did not read what I said and is angry and violent. This forum is petty nowadays.
-
Peace
I am following this topic with shock.Makavelli is rude,Obscene and vulgar.it is hurufs greatness that she laughed it off.
The last post of Progressive 1933 is so mean and spiteful,calling her 'Sick'.Totally unquranic behaviour.
JavedDon't forget to mention that javed1 is being completely illogical, on top of that. You did not read her posts (more like saliva eruptions on the keyboard rather than constructive argumentation).
-
Peace
I am following this topic with shock.Makavelli is rude,Obscene and vulgar.it is hurufs greatness that she laughed it off.
The last post of Progressive 1933 is so mean and spiteful,calling her 'Sick'.Totally unquranic behaviour.
Grow up boys.
Mods please step in.
Peace
JavedThank you, Javed, brother. Thank you for raising up in some measure the level of this thread and forum. I appreciate your kind words towards me and I agree, the moderators should step in so I m going to report the lst message so they can take whateever steps they deem fit.
Salaam
-
Peace
I am following this topic with shock.Makavelli is rude,Obscene and vulgar.it is hurufs greatness that she laughed it off.
The last post of Progressive 1933 is so mean and spiteful,calling her 'Sick'.Totally unquranic behaviour.
Grow up boys.
Mods please step in.
Peace
JavedSalaam
If you want the mods to step in you can always report the comment you find needs moderation.
I have already reported makavelii comment on huruf in which he uses the n-bomb. The more individuals report them the better for their reprimanding. -
Salaam
If you want the mods to step in you can always report the comment you find needs moderation.
I have already reported makavelii comment on huruf in which he uses the n-bomb. The more individuals report them the better for their reprimanding.So apparently using an "n-bomb" which contextually was not at all used to underline the racism problem but was used as a sincere associative understanding of her posts, which to me quite clearly represent her way of narration, is far more severe than "I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it" ? https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609774.msg410228#msg410228
Taking words out of their obvious context is a bad habit, especially if you are interested in religious texts...
I am glad I was reported, the outcome of these reports will show crystal clear how reasonable the administration here is, and I believe these boards is a great example of a constructive dialogue, seeing how some aggressive individuals from religious sects are not banned immediately but are instead given their right to free speech, which is not the case of traditional boards and/or social networks. I was expressing my support for what I believe is right and pointing out the hypocrisy of some forum users here is for me a far greater necessity than a problem of harsh language.
-
So apparently using an "n-bomb" which contextually was not at all used to underline the racism problem but was used as a sincere associative understanding of her posts, which to me quite clearly represent her way of narration, is far more severe than "I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it" ? https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609774.msg410228#msg410228
Taking words out of their obvious context is a bad habit, especially if you are interested in religious texts...
I am glad I was reported, the outcome of these reports will show crystal clear how reasonable the administration here is, and I believe these boards is a great example of a constructive dialogue, seeing how some aggressive individuals from religious sects are not banned immediately but are instead given their right to free speech, which is not the case of traditional boards and/or social networks. I was expressing my support for what I believe is right and pointing out the hypocrisy of some forum users here is for me a far greater necessity than a problem of harsh language.
Well I mean if you want to report it, then go ahead.
I think your rant about huruf can also be viewed as hypocritical. You do not know anything about her ethnicity yet you made hurtful assumptions and you chose to demean and use a hurtful stereotype. That behavior is just not okay. Neither is wishing to rape someone or for someone to get raped. -
Proressive and Makaveli have lied blatantly in their posts in this thread.
In no post in which I have wrriten have I seen that anybody has wished anybody else to get raped. I don't even can guess from where in my messages anybody has come to that outlandish idea, it is so far from my statements. What some have pointed out with more or less fortune in some thread, is that one should put him or herself in the place of the raped in order to feel more empathy and not speak without relly knowing how it can feel and and mean for the raped.
Any way, I want to thank Javed and HP-Tech for their decent and and respectful attitude. Particularly with HP-Tech, we have disagreed in some questions recently and that nonetheless has not prevented him from acting with real dignity, which shows, once more, that it is not opinion, but behaviour, what makes a person worthy of respect.
Other than that, it seems that this thread has now been reported twice. It is Now up to the moderators.
Salaam
-
Well I mean if you want to report it, then go ahead.
I think your rant about huruf can also be viewed as hypocritical. You do not know anything about her ethnicity yet you made hurtful assumptions and you chose to demean and use a hurtful stereotype. That behavior is just not okay. Neither is wishing to rape someone or for someone to get raped.I don't wish to participate in the group reportings. I am not a communist with the mentality of a neighbour-snitch. I think for myself and I am enlightened enough to not get offended by random rants.
-
Salaam
If you want the mods to step in you can always report the comment you find needs moderation.
I have already reported makavelii comment on huruf in which he uses the n-bomb. The more individuals report them the better for their reprimanding.I can't believe you reported that. You're that sensitive? I'd be disappointed if makavelii get reprimanded. He didn't address you or any one for that matter with the n-bomb. Directly or indirectly.