WOMEN HEAD GARMENT
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Hair itself is a covering. But just like Huruf, I would like to know what's wrong with such compliments and how they all translate to something sexual?
No reason for a man to compliment random women unless interested in them sexually. And (believing) women shouldn't live for the attention. Covering hair = less attention.
If someone covers after your dad gives such compliments, will that mean he had something ill in his mind about her? And what to do for the following?
Voice
Writing style
Behavior
Eyes
Physical Actions such as giving charity
OpinionsWhy would a married man go around complimenting other women. My dads not a weirdo. And this thread is about womens head garment so all of those are kinda irrelevant. None are even about dress code.
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No reason for a man to compliment random women unless interested in them sexually. And (believing) women shouldn't live for the attention. Covering hair = less attention.Why would a married man go around complimenting other women. My dads not a weirdo. And this thread is about womens head garment so all of those are kinda irrelevant. None are even about dress code.
Complimenting anybody is something sexual? My God! Obsession can go far iondeed.
Complimenting anybody is just a kind gesture unless the compliment is silly or demeaning or idiot in itself, which then would not really be a compliment. People compliment each other continually without any backthought just because it makes for a more pleasant and joyous living. IN fact, can't remember the aya, but kind words are a good deed in itself. And compliments finally are kind words, may be of the lesser value, but still kind.
And when the "compliments" are something else, then it is clear and obviously out of place, and the complimenter should be put in his or her place.
Salaam
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About modest dressing, nobody as yet has defined what modesty is. If it is being discrete or unconspicuous, asexual or what, which turns the whole talk into something rather confusing rather than entlightening.
Whatever it is it is not a matter of clothing. If a person is discreet he or she will dress discretely, the "modesty" part, whatever it is, in clothes, would be a consequence of the person being "modest" and not he thing itself. Any clothing can be turned into "unmodest" if the person wants to behave like that. Whereas a "modest" person will naturally dress to character. So it is the attitutude of the person what matters, just like men, who may dress one way or the other and nobody ever signals anything, but still can be very "unmodest" and molesters in fact, because modesty is not clothes but attitude. It does not matter how they dress they can be pigs, so what is gained by puting clothes intot he fray and nto the behaviour and attitude of people? It only gives an alibi to those who are not sincere and want to keep their "free field" for scavenging.
Salaam
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I agree. Both should dress properly. Technically, a woman can be blamed for a rape only if it is always known that the place where this crime occurs has a history of that. Fraternity parties would fall under that.
I don't think I'd still blame the woman for the rape itself. You think a woman goes to a party expecting to be raped?
I think the problem lies with the man if he feels sexually turned on by women's hair and feels he can't control himself as a result..
As an example, I really like long hair on guys and there are other women who do too. Doesn't mean they should cover it up for us because we find it attractive, haha.
We are in control of our own actions.But of course I think if a woman wants to wear a headscarf, feels more modest and/or protected by it then sure do it! I just think we should all be less judgmental of eachother. Headscarf or no headscarf.
But that doesn't mean I don't agree with decent dressing. Especially when it comes to body. You can be of good moral character with or without decent dressing but you can also do both together.
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Jokes apart,and I am sorry for my inappropriate jokes at times,I have to agree with huruf here.
Either the person is clean in thoughts and intentions or still working on it or confused. Clothes are dictated by the mind that puts them on.
"Modesty" is a state of mind before and after any clothes come into the equation.
But the choices are there for people to put on what suits their mind. GOD has left it to us as another choice along with all the other choices.
Qoran says dressing your mind with righteousness compliments your clothes. i.e,with this state of mind first, whatever you choose to wear would modest.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Desert and other extreme cold climate conditions brings in the need for dressing to protect our bodies, compared to the tropics where its not that strict. In India you can see monks without any dress and many finds it normal. So its the environment and culture that decides the dress.
Invitation to sex is a norm, every animals do something to attract the opposite partner, sex comes with a lot of responsibilities and thinking before one gets committed or go for the act, even in this modern age. Women have additional responsibilities in this, as they are the one going to get affected most, sometimes these cultural practices prevent us from getting into trouble. Hair cover or cutting off hair is also such a practice, in India we can see widows shorten their hair, to prevent themselves from being attractive, right or wrong always has multiple factors to decide. -
?? My point is hair makes a woman more attractive = more attention
Peace Amra94
I agree but not to the extent that overall attraction has anything to do with hair.
There are much more personal attributes that are far more important than hair!
This reminds me of the debate about abortion believe it or not, where the men
debate what is best for women. As far as female attraction goes why not just ask
us guys what is attractive about women and vice versa. yespeace
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I don't think I'd still blame the woman for the rape itself. You think a woman goes to a party expecting to be raped?
The rape problem of college fraternities is centuries old and they have been always recorded. There is hardly anyone who doesn't know about this here. If even after that a woman goes to their house party then we can simply blame her. Come on, you won't walk in the forest at night without shoes! Frats are so notorious for drugging women for rape that some company even released a nail polish to help women detect if the drink they have has drug. To make things worse, reporting never always helps because these rapists' dads are politicians, CEO'S and other rich people capable of buying presidents of the universities and cops. That said, there are dumb men also who with the hope to climb the corporate ladder try to join these frats only to be killed at the time of hazing.
I think the problem lies with the man if he feels sexually turned on by women's hair and feels he can't control himself as a result..
It is not just hair. People get sexually attracted to each other even through chats without exchanging photos.
As an example, I really like long hair on guys and there are other women who do too. Doesn't mean they should cover it up for us because we find it attractive, haha.
We are in control of our own actions.Beauty is in the eye of beholder. Different people prefer different kinds of attractions just like love. No two persons may have one single opinion about how they fall in love.
But of course I think if a woman wants to wear a headscarf, feels more modest and/or protected by it then sure do it! I just think we should all be less judgmental of eachother. Headscarf or no headscarf.
But that doesn't mean I don't agree with decent dressing. Especially when it comes to body. You can be of good moral character with or without decent dressing but you can also do both together.
The problem is not preference but the fact that the sectarians wear it by saying God told them to do so. We all know that's a lie. Unfortunately, plenty of us have suffered in various ways because of their choice. For instance, hijabis have been caught cheating. It is very easy to hide cheat sheets in that piece of cloth. They always also seem to think sexual and that's very very distracting and annoying. It starts quite early. Like I remember one friend in 7th grade used to limit our fun time in school playground because she thought a 50 year old teacher we had liked her and she was too shy to be near him. The latest problem is "I don't wanna walk over there. I don't wanna park over there. What if I am attacked for my hijab?" Needless to say that they have become a threat to all those who surround them. The odor is the number one problem though. I haven't met one who hasn't burned my nose. It is also wrong to profile men.
in India we can see widows shorten their hair, to prevent themselves from being attractive, right or wrong always has multiple factors to decide.
Oh there is more. Because of that same reason
Widows are not allowed to eat much of what any normal person can eat. They are to have no meat, fish, dessert and many more to mention.
They are limited to one room or space.
They are declared as bad luck and untouchable.But I guess to fully end the attraction dillemma sati would be better choice.
Desert and other extreme cold climate conditions brings in the need for dressing to protect our bodies, compared to the tropics where its not that strict. In India you can see monks without any dress and many finds it normal. So its the environment and culture that decides the dress.
I have always maintained that. One can wear hijab for climate condition. But it is wrong to attribute it to God.
Invitation to sex is a norm, every animals do something to attract the opposite partner, sex comes with a lot of responsibilities and thinking before one gets committed or go for the act, even in this modern age. Women have additional responsibilities in this, as they are the one going to get affected most, sometimes these cultural practices prevent us from getting into trouble. Hair cover or cutting off hair is also such a practice, in India we can see widows shorten their hair, to prevent themselves from being attractive, right or wrong always has multiple factors to decide.
This is interesting.
Both Hijabis and skimpy clothe women do not want themselves to be seen as something sexual. In other words, "sex" is the problem. I guess it is best to just take some hormon to become asexual? -
The rape problem of college fraternities is centuries old and they have been always recorded. There is hardly anyone who doesn't know about this here. If even after that a woman goes to their house party then we can simply blame her. Come on, you won't walk in the forest at night without shoes! Frats are so notorious for drugging women for rape that some company even released a nail polish to help women detect if the drink they have has drug. To make things worse, reporting never always helps because these rapists' dads are politicians, CEO'S and other rich people capable of buying presidents of the universities and cops. That said, there are dumb men also who with the hope to climb the corporate ladder try to join these frats only to be killed at the time of hazing.
I am shocked and dumbfounded also that something that is so known as you say and happens over such a long time, goes on, everybody knows and nothing is done.
Those people seem fit for the execution wall. What a cancer!
Salaam
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Peace Amra94
I agree but not to the extent that overall attraction has anything to do with hair.
There are much more personal attributes that are far more important than hair!peace. I know that but if you're getting attention from random men because of hair why not hide it
This reminds me of the debate about abortion believe it or not, where the men
debate what is best for women. As far as female attraction goes why not just ask
us guys what is attractive about women and vice versa. yespeace
I did ask my future husband what he thinks and he agree w/ me..
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The rape problem of college fraternities is centuries old and they have been always recorded. There is hardly anyone who doesn't know about this here. If even after that a woman goes to their house party then we can simply blame her. Come on, you won't walk in the forest at night without shoes! Frats are so notorious for drugging women for rape that some company even released a nail polish to help women detect if the drink they have has drug. To make things worse, reporting never always helps because these rapists' dads are politicians, CEO'S and other rich people capable of buying presidents of the universities and cops. That said, there are dumb men also who with the hope to climb the corporate ladder try to join these frats only to be killed at the time of hazing.
Yeah I don't know much about "fraternity parties". I'm assuming it's a US thing.
It is not just hair. People get sexually attracted to each other even through chats without exchanging photos.
Beauty is in the eye of beholder. Different people prefer different kinds of attractions just like love. No two persons may have one single opinion about how they fall in love.
That wasn't even the point.
The problem is not preference but the fact that the sectarians wear it by saying God told them to do so. We all know that's a lie. Unfortunately, plenty of us have suffered in various ways because of their choice. For instance, hijabis have been caught cheating. It is very easy to hide cheat sheets in that piece of cloth. They always also seem to think sexual and that's very very distracting and annoying. It starts quite early. Like I remember one friend in 7th grade used to limit our fun time in school playground because she thought a 50 year old teacher we had liked her and she was too shy to be near him. The latest problem is "I don't wanna walk over there. I don't wanna park over there. What if I am attacked for my hijab?" Needless to say that they have become a threat to all those who surround them. The odor is the number one problem though. I haven't met one who hasn't burned my nose. It is also wrong to profile men.
What do you mean odor?
But it's true, there are "hijabis" who are targetted because of their headscarf.
"Threat"? I think you're exaggerting here. There are headscarf wearers who sin and do bad things but so do many other women.
If it's ridiculous for "hijabis" to be against other Muslim women just for not wearing a scarf then it's also wrong for Muslim women who don't wear a scarf to be against those women just because they do. It's also quite ridiculous how some "Quranists" seem to be so against women who wear headscarf and/or niqab yet seem to think it's fine and dandy to wear bikinis.Oh there is more. Because of that same reason
Widows are not allowed to eat much of what any normal person can eat. They are to have no meat, fish, dessert and many more to mention.
They are limited to one room or space.
They are declared as bad luck and untouchable.But I guess to fully end the attraction dillemma sati would be better choice.
Now you seem to be confusing Hinduism with "traditional Islam".
Yes, there are even places in Muslim countries where widows and divorcees are treated extremely badly. But the "untouchable", "sati" stuff you seem to be getting from Hinduism. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some jahil village-y Muslims do/believe in that stuff.I have always maintained that. One can wear hijab for climate condition. But it is wrong to attribute it to God.
This is interesting.
Both Hijabis and skimpy clothe women do not want themselves to be seen as something sexual. In other words, "sex" is the problem. I guess it is best to just take some hormon to become asexual?Or maybe many men are the problem?
But it's true, people in general are becoming too sexualized. -
Complimenting anybody is something sexual? My God! Obsession can go far iondeed.
I didn't even say that??
Complimenting anybody is just a kind gesture unless the compliment is silly or demeaning or idiot in itself, which then would not really be a compliment. People compliment each other continually without any backthought just because it makes for a more pleasant and joyous living. IN fact, can't remember the aya, but kind words are a good deed in itself. And compliments finally are kind words, may be of the lesser value, but still kind.
And when the "compliments" are something else, then it is clear and obviously out of place, and the complimenter should be put in his or her place.
Salaam
I appreciate compliments from family and other women
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I am shocked and dumbfounded also that something that is so known as you say and happens over such a long time, goes on, everybody knows and nothing is done.
I noticed even the average men find these organizations attractive. I tried debating about it here and there with some. There is no way you can make them look at the rape problem followed by the loss of individualism. The supporters are mesmerized by the frats' affordable housing with cooks, library full of test papers and notes of the past "brothers", promise of great job positions which "unfortunately" is fulfilled even before they graduate, lifelong discounts for several products and services, lifelong friendship with sons of powerful fathers, etc.
Obama did want to eliminate the system, but couldn't. It was supposed to be his last work. Congress has 65% of frat members and so I bet it was not an easy job for him.
Those people seem fit for the execution wall. What a cancer!
Salaam
They have the sickest mentality, but outside they behave like they are so nice.
This is in 1992
<a href="http//articles.latimes.com/1992-03-15/opinion/op-6556_1_sexual-harassment"> The Dirty Secret in Fraternity Drinking Songs--Sexual Harassment</a>Now more open than before
<a href="https//www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/02/rape-georgia-tech_n_6089922.html"> Here Are Disturbing Examples Of A ?Pro-Rape? Attitude At A Georgia Tech Frat</a>
Yeah I don't know much about "fraternity parties". I'm assuming it's a US thing.
Yep, but they are trying to now promote it in Canada and Australia.
That wasn't even the point.
Elaborate.
What do you mean odor?
They are not always washed. But the odor thing is not just my own complaint.
But it's true, there are "hijabis" who are targetted because of their headscarf.
"Threat"? I think you're exaggerting here. There are headscarf wearers who sin and do bad things but so do many other women.I am not talking about sins here. Sorry for not giving details. These days hanging out with them means telling the uneducated men that we are sectarians also and thus, worthy of attack.
If it's ridiculous for "hijabis" to be against other Muslim women just for not wearing a scarf then it's also wrong for Muslim women who don't wear a scarf to be against those women just because they do. It's also quite ridiculous how some "Quranists" seem to be so against women who wear headscarf and/or niqab yet seem to think it's fine and dandy to wear bikinis.
It is not a woman v woman, but lie in the name of Islam v truth God told us to abide by. As I have always maintained, non islamic reasons to wear hijab is what I support.
Now you seem to be confusing Hinduism with "traditional Islam".
Yes, there are even places in Muslim countries where widows and divorcees are treated extremely badly. But the "untouchable", "sati" stuff you seem to be getting from Hinduism. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some jahil village-y Muslims do/believe in that stuff.No, we weren't talking about that. The member used hindu widows' condition as an example that women should prevent themselves from being attractive. Unfortunately, that is a support for oppression.
Or maybe many men are the problem?
Then there would have been many rapes.
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Elaborate.
If I remember correctly, what I meant was that it's up to men to control their actions and not blame women for their own problems..
They are not always washed. But the odor thing is not just my own complaint.
What does that have to do with headscarf?
It sounds like you haven't been around many headscarf wearing women or don't know many.I am not talking about sins here. Sorry for not giving details. These days hanging out with them means telling the uneducated men that we are sectarians also and thus, worthy of attack.
You think so? Sometimes just being a Muslim is enough for some people to attack us.
It is not a woman v woman, but lie in the name of Islam v truth God told us to abide by. As I have always maintained, non islamic reasons to wear hijab is what I support.
You can support what you want but just wearing a headscarf is no reason to be against them or disrespect them either and I'm saying this even though I sometimes feel left out and not supported by the Muslim women community just because I don't wear one. It's sad, I think we should support each other despite our clothing. I'm not saying support their reasons if you don't want to but just them as part of the community, I suppose.
No, we weren't talking about that. The member used hindu widows' condition as an example that women should prevent themselves from being attractive. Unfortunately, that is a support for oppression.
Oh right. That's not really a good example to use.
Then there would have been many rapes.
Aren't there?
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Again, why any talk about women or particularly muslim women must revolve around appearance?
No quesrion that women in the first place should not participate ever in conditioning their attitutde to other women on appearance. Appearance is just that, not the real being. So why come back again, and again and again, on it? If some or many men do it because it contributes to their ego or interests, let us not join them and cause harm and inconvenience to other women. They have their right to self development as they see fit, on their own terms and for their own purposes, not to fulfill anybody's fantasias or self-seeking demands.
Salaam