homosexuality, the way forward?
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Peace SalikahDc.
Yes i do. But i dont see it as my life assignment to , as you correctly put it, fight the symptom. And why would i want to make them feel bad and perhaps make them commit even greater sins, like blasphemy. No, it is between them and God, were just told not to do it. Its that simple. The Quran applys to those that freely wishes to let its moral teachings guide them.
regards
Noah -
ahoy hoy
As did he then create Killers, peadophiles, rapist, without given them a choice then. To blame those is to blame man for his existance.
im sorry but i completely disagree, your sexual orientation is not something you choose, homosexuals, transexuals, heamaphradites and heterosexual do not choose which gender they are attracted to, ask yourself, did you choose? but weather you kill somoene or not, rape someone or not, this is your own choice, a decision you make.
On another note, im not expecting people to accept the actions of homosexuals just to not carry some hatred towards them. I'm curious as to what people in this thread would do if they found their son/daugter to be homosexual..
toodles
the kebab monster
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Hullo
Homoism is a choice, as is all of life,
left or right, up or down
front or behind.....(not literally)for one to judge another is for a sinner to judge a sinner,
let he without sin cast the 1st stone.
Altho homsexulity is forbidden in the Qu'ran so is a lot of other stuff...such as killing ppl...
but put under certain cirumstances even the most religious would put a man down... similally homosim is also putting a man down.......in certain circumstances rollIn conclusion altho alot say it is wrong, history has repeatedly shown us the majority is always wrong.
remember the nazis eh..eh...
n will young on pop idol wot were the majority thinking.Peace
Out
The B-A-T
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Salaams Lote, All
You keep talking about phobia! What phobia? You want the normal society that reproduced you to accept such "unnatural" bahaviour? Why?
OK. What do you want us to do about homosexuals?
Regards,
It is not about WANT. It is about CAN! What can you do about them? Those people are supported by the system in those countries (maybe the one you are living in) and they are playing the victim part very well which you are falling for it! Look at you! You think that if you don't support them then you must be homophobic (what you kept labelling us here)!!!
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Salaams Tay, All
One of the telling experiences I had was with a good friend/co-worker. We had one of those conversations where we both let our guard down and we just talked. I asked him about his lifestyle, and he told me, "Tay, if I had one wish, it would be that I wasn't gay. I wish I was attracted to women. You have no idea how hard it is to be gay and black in this society."
Again, playing the victim part!
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In reply to the kebab monsters question
Wot wud i do if my son was gay
well i wud turn my son into my daughter
If u get my driftThe B-A-T
Interesting solution Mr Batman.
Do you mean that you would have a sex change operation performed to him?
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Peace IdmKhizar,
Please explain how exactly homosexuality is a crime, and what punishment you would suggest for this crime.
Thanks,
TayKhi- HS just like pre marital or outside of wedlock sex is a crime. HS cozes sexually transmitted diseases 2 be spread from one person 2 another. It is not all guaranteed tht a person stays gay all his life. Tht person when he someday decides 2 marry will then pass on his aqcuired diseases 2 his wife without her knowledge n also 2 her children. Thus while at 1st look hs seems harmless it is most harmful 2 society. Its just like printing fake money. If just one person does it in small amounts it doesnt matter. However we all know it is a crime n u get punished if caught. HS is much more disastrous in the long run n if u know the statistiucs of the US the main coz of aids there is HS. HS shld be punished by exile. The ppl sld be sent forth from the community. They can build their own community if they want but shld not be part of the civilized community. GOD Bless!
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HS cozes sexually transmitted diseases 2 be spread from one person 2 another. It is not all guaranteed tht a person stays gay all his life. Tht person when he someday decides 2 marry will then pass on his aqcuired diseases 2 his wife without her knowledge n also 2 her children. Thus while at 1st look hs seems harmless it is most harmful 2 society. Its just like printing fake money. If just one person does it in small amounts it doesnt matter. However we all know it is a crime n u get punished if caught. HS is much more disastrous in the long run n if u know the statistiucs of the US the main coz of aids there is HS. HS shld be punished by exile. The ppl sld be sent forth from the community. They can build their own community if they want but shld not be part of the civilized community. GOD Bless!
just nitpicking...
Sexually transmitted diseases can be spread by homosexual and heterosexual intercourse.
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In reply to the kebab monsters question
Wot wud i do if my son was gay
well i wud turn my son into my daughter
If u get my driftThe B-A-T
Interesting solution Mr Batman.
Do you mean that you would have a sex change operation performed to him?
I would say revolutionary solution!
There is one documented case in America, where due to a mishap with a routine circumcision operation, a boy lost his penis.
The parents of the boy decided to raise him up as girl. So he was given relevant hormonal supplements and the boy "grew up" to be "girl" but in his later teenage years the masculinity reasserted itself. He then abandoned all the treatments and became a masculine again.
Therefore those who say homosexuality is due to the way you are brought up and other environmental factors are incorrect. Sexual orientation is rooted in biology of the individual...
Regards,
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Khi- Did i tell u abt my personal homo experience? It's coz i wanted it 2 happen although i later realized tht i cld easily control it.
You are therefore BISEXUAL khizar like the pop singer Madona. She goes both ways but now she is in a heterosexual relationship...
Regards,
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You are therefore BISEXUAL khizar like the pop singer Madona. She goes both ways but now she is in a heterosexual relationship...
Regards,Khi- No im not. I realized tht those feelings were only mentally made up. I dont feel anything sexually as regards 2 men now. They dont turn me on in any way. So im by no means bisexual. All this was mental garbage. GOD Bless!
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Peace SalikahDC,
and just as a side note I disagree that homosexuality is an exclusive result of some type of life trauma. It could be any number of things. Particularly here in America, the causes could be countless....hormone induced food, environment, pop culture, broken families, industrialization, life trauma, peer pressure, genetic mutations caused from only the God knows......the list could go on and on...its a crazy system...I didn't mean to imply that homosexuality is an exclusive result of a traumatic experience. I was merely citing one of the type of experiences that can lead to it. I should have also noted that this young man was definately not gay as we were growing up. He was getting girls pregnant left and right before he got nabbed and went to the Penn. He grew up his entire life as a heterosexual and it took a traumatic experience for him to go in a different direction!! I'm sorry, but the whole born this way theory has no basis at all.
I have to issue this warning to some of you guys. There are some people here who keep repeating the notion that these people are born this way and that they cannot help but to be attracted to the same sex. Homosexuals are saying that GOD MADE A MISTAKE!! By CHOOSING the homosexual orientation, they are saying that GOD made a mistake. A Gay man is saying that GOD Mistakenly made him a man when He should have made him a woman. And a lesbian is saying the exact same thing. She's saying that GOD Mistakenly made her a woman when He should have made her a man. We hear it all the time. A lesbian will say that she's a man trapped inside of a woman's body, etc.
I expect those kinds of comments from them, but I feel as though that I have to seriously advise against those who say they believe in The Quran from repeating these sentiments. GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES!! Look at racism. Alot of that is deep rooted and starts in the home. I have seen Plenty of cases where racist people verbally said that they cannot help but to feel prejudice and hatred towards certains races and peoples. Surely we are not born racists are we? If we are, then GOD made another mistake when 4913 was revealed.
I have no choice but to turn this into a challenge. I have onced issued a challenge to some sunnis to show me where in The Quran can they find support for grown men to wed and have intercourse with 9 year old little girls. Well, they couldn't. So to those of you who insist that homosexuailty is not a choice and that they were born that way and that there is nothing wrong with this orientation, I ask......
Please show me just ONE verse where The Quran speaks of a sexual and/or marital relationship between the same sex in a positive or recommended light!!
ALL of the verses I have ever read concerning lawful relations have all dwelt on two things
1). Marriage, and....
2). Marriage between male and female.The Quran systematically and methodically describes a marriage as between a Rajil (Man) and a Nisaa'i (Woman) such as in 438 and 2187. I challenge anyone here to post just one verse for me that even remotely implies that marriage and sex between two men and two women is okay in GOD's eyes. Also, if GOD made them that way, then I ask you to explain Bi-sexuals to me too. That's got to be the worst mistake GOD has made to date.
Peace,
Damon. -
Salaams Damon, All
I have to issue this warning to some of you guys. There are some people here who keep repeating the notion that these people are born this way and that they cannot help but to be attracted to the same sex.
Oh, Yeah! Clearly! I see that they are repeatedly and systematically saying that. It seems that this is part of the "acceptance plan"!
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just nitpicking...
Sexually transmitted diseases can be spread by homosexual and heterosexual intercourse.
Khi- So when did i say tht i agree with premarital sex or sex out of wedlock. The latter r 2 be punished too with hundred lashes as the Quran says. Both r 2 be punished. N y r u ignoring the US staistics tht HS is the MAIN CAUSE of aids? In fact it is the main coz of aids deaths in the world
http//www.truth-vs-hogwash.com/homo1.html
GOD Bless! -
Khi- So when did i say tht i agree with premarital sex or sex out of wedlock. The latter r 2 be punished too with hundred lashes as the Quran says. Both r 2 be punished. N y r u ignoring the US staistics tht HS is the MAIN CAUSE of aids? In fact it is the main coz of aids deaths in the world
http//www.truth-vs-hogwash.com/homo1.html
GOD Bless!Chill! I don't have a problem with statistics. Just want to point out that any sexual intercourse, homo or hetero, extramarital or not, consensual or forced, can transmit STDs.
Another nitpick AIDS is caused by the Human Immunodeficiency Virus, HIV, not homosexual behaviour. Sexual intercourse with an HIV carrier can transmit HIV, which then causes AIDS. AIDS itself don't directly kill, it destroys the immunity system. People that has AIDS usually die from other diseases that they got easily because of lack of immune defense.
Do understand that I am not pro-gay or anything. My stance on this issue is that I prefer they keep it to themselves instead of flaunting it in public in bad taste. God will deal with them.
Oh, and another thing, your source is Biblical... again. R u sure ur not a Xtian?
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Therefore those who say homosexuality is due to the way you are brought up and other environmental factors are incorrect. Sexual orientation is rooted in biology of the individual...
Regards,
Khi- Salam. Lets say tht this is true. This still doesnt mean tht anyone shld perform the act of HS. It's just when one is born in a relatively poor family. Tht doesnt give him the right 2 steal or when one ios born blind 2 rob anyone of an eye. Ofcourse GOD does not create man imperfect. We were excellent in the original but the yrs of selected natural mutations r cozing everything 2 degrade n one day it will be over. However our DNA is still very good showing tht it must have been perfect in the original so tht it is amzing we can still sit here n talk abt it. If a person experiences HS feelings he shld go 2 a doctor n get a cure like the eg u gave above n dont consider it normal. Coz there must be a hormonal prob in tht case. In tht case if it's a man he cld become a woman completely i.e. transexual. But no they dont want tht. They say they dont wanna "sacrifice" their sexuality. I heard these arguments at a talk show in germany some yrs ago. They want 2 enjoy n lust no matter whether it causes harm 2 society or not. They r bad. There r also ppl who claim 2 be attractzed 2 young children. Shld we then allow them 2 have sexual relations with them also? Obviously not coz it's wrong n harmful. GOD Bless!
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Hello Damon, All,
There are some people here who keep repeating the notion that these people are born this way and that they cannot help but to be attracted to the same sex.
This is whats been said by millions of gay and lesbian people all around the world from various religious and cultural backgrounds, in their own personal testimonies. This view is further supported by researches by people like Kinsey, Shree Hite, Nancy Friday, Naomi Wolfe and many others.
Are millions of homosexuals lying to us in their personal testimonies? Are all homosexual liars? Shall we burn all the scientific research data that hints a biological basis for homosexuality?
But I can go along with Tay and say we can't be conclusive as to what causes homosexuality. But you have to accept that homosexuality is a fact of life, just as bi-sexaulity is also a fact of life so is trangenderism...so accept it and move on... The real debate should be if homosexual couples should be able to adopt children. I think thats the most important debate...
Regards,
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Chill! I don't have a problem with statistics. Just want to point out that any sexual intercourse, homo or hetero, extramarital or not, consensual or forced, can transmit STDs.
Khi- Salam. Y then do most ppl who engage in HS have acquired aids n the HIV virus. I know tht any uncontrolled sexual relationship can result in aids being tranferred. Thts y it ought 2 be organized n their ouigt 2 be a leagsl marriage contract be4 the couple goes into each other. Get it now?
Another nitpick AIDS is caused by the Human Immunodeficiency Virus, HIV, not homosexual behaviour. Sexual intercourse with an HIV carrier can transmit HIV, which then causes AIDS. AIDS itself don't directly kill, it destroys the immunity system. People that has AIDS usually die from other diseases that they got easily because of lack of immune defense.
Khi- I know aids is caused by the HIV virus. N this very virus is transmitted mostly coz of HS from one person 2 another. However it's not only aids but also other bacteria in the anus which get tranferred into the blood stream by this act of HS. As far as AIDS is concerned i know tht it doesnt kill ppl directly but destroys the immune system. Ur telling me nothing new.
Do understand that I am not pro-gay or anything. My stance on this issue is that I prefer they keep it to themselves instead of flaunting it in public in bad taste. God will deal with them.
Khi- Ic. Well i believe 415-16 talk abt punishment 4 HS so we ought 2 punish them n the best thing is tht we send them 2 exile.
Oh, and another thing, your source is Biblical... again. R u sure ur not a Xtian?
Khi- No but i often refer 2 Chrisians coz the Quran says
You will find that the worst enemies of the believers are the Jews and the idol worshipers. And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian." This is because they have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant.
GOD Bless! -
Salaam Lote-Tree,all
you have to accept that homosexuality is a fact of life, just as bi-sexaulity is also a fact of life so is trangenderism...so accept it and move on... The real debate should be if homosexual couples should be able to adopt children. I think thats the most important debate...
I already have accepted that HS is a fact of life. I have no choice but to. That is not an issue at all for me. My issue is the agenda which seems to have been pushed earlier in this thread which is that GOD made them that way and that they do not choose to be that way. No offence and nothing personal, but you are one of those who was pushing that agenda in this thread. My challenge in my prior post is issued to you and any others here who wish to push that agenda. Also, it appears that your stance in this post is somewhat different from the stance you have taken earlier which is both pro-gay and that people like myself are homophobic because we do not accept HS relations as natural or righteous. My challenge still stands. Until that challenge is met, any argument that is set forth that says HS is normal and is not wrong is considered Null-and-Void in The Quran's eyes. I have also made a post much earlier in this thread which no one responded to at all. I am re-posting part of it because it somewhat fits in with my challenge and my position on this matter. It is below
The Arabic phrase innakum is all inclusive, but those who know the grammar rules of the Arabic language also know that innakum is used primarily to identify male-plural. There is a seperate pronoun used to identify female-plural. According to the rules of Arabic grammar, whenever a group is made up of male and female, the male-plural pronoun is used to refer to the group.
Knowing this, when we read the passage in 781, it is either addressing a group of men or a group of men and women. How do we know which it is that it's addressing. This where 482 and 1736 come into play. Let's look at this verse again
"You come to men with desire INSTEAD of women; you are a TRANSGRESSING people."
Please do what The Quran exhorts us to do and Ponder/Reflect on what is being said in this verse. It is not hard to see. Why would Lut address both genders for approaching men with desire?? Why would he say Instead of women?? Why would he say that this behaviour makes them a Transgressing people??
If he was addressing women in this verse, then he would be calling the women transgressors for having the natural attraction towards the opposite sex.
If he was addressing both men and women in this verse, then he would be saying that men and women are to have an attraction to women only and not men at all. This would be the most illogical equation one can think of. How can anyone possibly work that one out?
The third, and only logical, understanding is that the use of the term innakum is in its primary use of male-plural. We don't need to be Arabic scholars to truly examine this verse. We need logic and common sense.
Salaam all.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon.