Why do you need four witnesses, and why is the punishment less for males in.....
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strange type of sins exist ...
killing somebody make you sad
rapping somebody make you sad
robbing somebody make you sad
hurting someone emotions make you sad..doing adultury give you pleasure
doing zina give you pleasure
doing fahish acts ( like oral sex , homosex) gives u pleasure
doing prositution gives you pleasure
watching pornography gives u pleasureplaying gambling gives you pleasure and sadness both in case of winning and losing rotfl
smoking weed drinking alcohal gives you pleasure and sadness both depend on situations
cheating with somebody gives you pleasure (both in relation and in daily life.. like transactions..)
some sins are easy to feel like disrespecting your parents & grandparents will make you feel bad
respecting them make you feel good...and the most hardcore sin "shirk" gives you nothing niether pleasure nor sadness.. how strange ?
so by defualt most of the dangerous sin is shirk in which you dnt have any feelings or you dnt know what you feel example with pleasure lot of people are doing shirk including the last two prominent generation of beleivers ..
jesus and muhammad followers...
what i dnt understand is why there is not any guilty feeling or pleasure feeling of doing shirk like other sins , even this is master sin
perhaps this is also hidden like other matters whatever related with the creator
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Salaam.
My understanding was that these verses refer to punishment for homosexuality (for both men & women). I know Yusuf Ali says so in his footnotes but he acknowledges that it's not a commonly held view. It makes sense to me though. The fact that there needs to be 4 witnesses means that the punishment happens only in extremely rare scenarios (because there are verses that ask people to enter other people's houses only with permission). So unless they're "doing it" in a pubic space I cannot imagine many scenarios where people are caught and punished for homosexuality.
Also the fact that there is only one punishment mentioned here would indicate that the punishment is the same for both men and women (that they be held in their houses till they repent or God makes a way for them). I confess I cannot think of what "the way" might be in a real life situation )
God knows best. Please do point out if there are mistakes in my understanding above.
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But where is the punishment. There is no talk about punishment. And again a punishment for a fault or misdemeanor or whatever bannot go from 0 minutes to perpetual. It is ridiculous and where is the hint that this refers to homosexuality? Nowhere it is hinted.
An when it is said about women in plural, what is this fahisha that is spacially womanly, homosexuality or whoredom? Also, there is no mention whatsoever of repentance in 4.1. And it is not a particular act, it is th fact of doing it repeatedly or usually since action of the verb is uncompleted, that is they are at it continually, not that they do it once and you go and punish that once. Although, as I say, there is not talk whatsoever of punishment. And amsikuhum fil buyut is no a punishment, it is an act of social solidarity to pick people from the street and put them into houses.
Salaam
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Now, why three or four witnesses is not enough, Why four?
The biggest question who takes multiple people to bedroom?
Anyways, its is not 4 exactly. There is another one there
And the fifth that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars.247
That's what caught me. Just human witnesses will not be enough.
They must also say yes to 247. Trust me, that catches even the atheists by the collar. People cannot get away by tarnishing someone's name when the instructions from Quran are followed.Next
The fornicator does not marry except a fornicator or polytheist, and none marries her except a fornicator or a polytheist, and that has been made unlawful to the believers.243Why people here are to marry fornicator or polytheist and not the believer?
"in the homes until death terminates their lives" is not a punishment.
Peace everyone,
I find this and one other article of God alone Islam hard to accept.
Anyway, I am interested in others opinions on the adultery and four witnesses.
Thanks
You won't go very far with Quran alone if you go by what other humans say. The Book is a guidance. So first you really should use it individually. It is common to make new discoveries about the verses. That makes previous articles and understandings invalid for future use.
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4.15-16 are not about zina and are not about punishment, and are not, at least not particularly about same sex practices.
4.15 if we set ourselves int he real world fits what prostitues do. They have been and still are overwhelmely women. The aya speaks in the femine plural and and the verb is in the uncompleted tense, which means that it si something ongoing or done regularly. Again that fits protitutes. Adn neither this aya nor the follwoing sets any punishment. There is no imprisonment but an order to the communoity to take these women off the street and put them into houses (not prison nor imprisonment) till they find another means to make a living or till they die if they do not find another way to earn a living. Prostitutes very often have children and in fact many of them become prostitutes when they get pregnant and the family disowns them or get into similarly vulnerable circumstances.
4.16 tells people to remind those who engage a prostitute and the prostitute that what they do is nto right and they should not pursue what they are doing.
With good sense, first comes the injonction in 4.15, ordering to take care of the prostitutes, and then the injunction to annoy the prostitue an the client so that they do nto pursue that kind of trade.
In any other situations which fits, the injunctions could be applied, but the case of prostitution is very obvious.
As to the four witnesses are required b ecause finally it is to be done regardless of the opposition of those concerned and therefore there should be clear proof that the procedure is warranted by facts.
The wrong interpretations stems, as is so common, from estimating that the injunctions of the Qur'an are addressed to males and not to the community, which obviously is a wrong assumption, the addressee is the people. The women meant are the women of the people, not anybody spouse in particular. That is the women are any women, just as the couple mentionned in 4.16 is made up of any of the people.
Salaam
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When you stop denying that this passage, like most in the Quran, is addressed to men, things will become easier to understand. There are many distorted translations out there. 415 talks about female fornicators. According to a current hypothesis I have, these females become 'fatayatikum min ma malakat aymanakum.' 416 talks about male homosexuals. Men, the workers and providers/protectors of women DO NOT get house arrest for fornication and only get punished on earth if it results in cuckolding (zina) - i.e. they fornicate with a married woman. Women are not the providers and protectors of men, nor are they in charge of household finances. They should ideally be with their family or marry a good man. Why 4 witnesses for punishment of females? To prevent slander and punishing innocent women.
Please note that 415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.'
Quite interesting that today's corrupted world goes against these teachings completely. Yet so many here want God's message to conform to current insane and unhealthy standards.
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And according to 416, the punishment for males is way less, than for females. Why?
peace
17 path alladhna/the ones (masculine plural; refers to "any individuals" males/females) favors thou upon them other than the ones earned wrath upon them and not the astray
21-4 alif lam meem such the book not doubt in it guidance for the righteous alladhina/the ones (masculine pl. "any individuals" males/females) believing in the unseen and keeping the connection and from what provision we them spending wa-alladhna/and the ones (masculine pl. "any individuals" males/females) believing in what descends to you and what descends from before you and in the afterlife themselves assured being
416 wa-alladhani/and the two (masculine dual; i.e. refers to "any two individuals"
4617 wa-alladh/and the one (masculine singular; refers to "any individual" male/female) said to parents his (i.e. aforementioned person) uff!
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When you stop denying that this passage, like most in the Quran, is addressed to men, things will become easier to understand. There are many distorted translations out there. 415 talks about female fornicators. According to a current hypothesis I have, these females become 'fatayatikum min ma malakat aymanakum.' 416 talks about male homosexuals. Men, the workers and providers/protectors of women DO NOT get house arrest for fornication and only get punished on earth if it results in cuckolding (zina) - i.e. they fornicate with a married woman. Women are not the providers and protectors of men, nor are they in charge of household finances. They should ideally be with their family or marry a good man. Why 4 witnesses for punishment of females? To prevent slander and punishing innocent women.
Please note that 415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.'
Quite interesting that today's corrupted world goes against these teachings completely. Yet so many here want God's message to conform to current insane and unhealthy standards.
It seems I have to emphasize again
415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.
The "alatee" and "aladhani" arguments are secondary and those things are complementary. It is clear that many translators have ignored the phrasing and corrupted the translation.
Focus on "among your women" and "among you." It does not say "among your women" and "among your men" or something like that.
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It seems I have to emphasize again
415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.
The "alatee" and "aladhani" arguments are secondary and those things are complementary. It is clear that many translators have ignored the phrasing and corrupted the translation.
Focus on "among your women" and "among you." It does not say "among your women" and "among your men" or something like that.
What I understood from my Arabic learning, Alladhani may be used to refer to a group of two people - either "a man and a woman" or "two men".
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Peace everyone,
I find this and one other article of God alone Islam hard to accept.
Anyway, I am interested in others opinions on the adultery and four witnesses.
Thanks
Adultery? Do not fall into the trap of conflating different terms. Most translators do this. 415-416 does not talk about adultery. Fahisha, in my opinion, is a general term for sexual immorality or fornication that does not involve cuckolding.
Zina means cuckolding, which is when a wife cheats on her husband.
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Peace everyone.
I still haven?t worked it out, but God willing I will. I have seen in one of the mainstream copies of the Quran where in the brackets next to where it says ? Or if God finds a way out for them?, it says ?by new legislation?. I am interested in your thoughts on what I am proposing.
Thanks
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Peace everyone.
I still haven?t worked it out, but God willing I will. I have seen in one of the mainstream copies of the Quran where in the brackets next to where it says ? Or if God finds a way out for them?, it says ?by new legislation?. I am interested in your thoughts on what I am proposing.
Thanks
Peace brother,
if the bold part is in brackets then you really dnt need to worry about it. because you can put anything of your choice in it.
Why a God will find a way for them ? God already knows everything ..Blessing of God upon you
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4.15 is in the plural and there is no punishment. Amsikuhum fil buyut does not say imprison them, but shelter them in the houses, keep them safe in the houses. It looks very much like it is speaking about prostitutes who do the street. And do not throw them out till God opens for them a way to get a living, and if the do not find another way of getting a living keep them in the houses till they die. Keep them not imprison them.
Salaam
Amsikuhunna does not mean confine or incarcerate, never. Check every occurrence int he Qur'an. It never has that meaning, but it always has a helpful meaning.
On the other hand, what kind of punishment for the same "crime" is that that goes from 0 to perpetual imprisonment? It is preposterous.
The way out is that they find a way of earning their life like an employment or a marriage or somebody to help them to not need to prostitute.
Why is it that when something concerns women know-alls always find a way to twist it so that it crushes women instead of helping them.
Salaam