Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. Why do you need four witnesses, and why is the punishment less for males in.....

Why do you need four witnesses, and why is the punishment less for males in.....

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
24 Posts 11 Posters 361 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • E Offline
    E Offline
    No longer a Sunna-rejecter
    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    When you stop denying that this passage, like most in the Quran, is addressed to men, things will become easier to understand. There are many distorted translations out there. 415 talks about female fornicators. According to a current hypothesis I have, these females become 'fatayatikum min ma malakat aymanakum.' 416 talks about male homosexuals. Men, the workers and providers/protectors of women DO NOT get house arrest for fornication and only get punished on earth if it results in cuckolding (zina) - i.e. they fornicate with a married woman. Women are not the providers and protectors of men, nor are they in charge of household finances. They should ideally be with their family or marry a good man. Why 4 witnesses for punishment of females? To prevent slander and punishing innocent women.

    Please note that 415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.'

    Quite interesting that today's corrupted world goes against these teachings completely. Yet so many here want God's message to conform to current insane and unhealthy standards.

    I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • N Offline
      N Offline
      Noon_waalqalami
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      And according to 416, the punishment for males is way less, than for females. Why?

      peace

      17 path alladhna/the ones (masculine plural; refers to "any individuals" males/females) favors thou upon them other than the ones earned wrath upon them and not the astray

      21-4 alif lam meem such the book not doubt in it guidance for the righteous alladhina/the ones (masculine pl. "any individuals" males/females) believing in the unseen and keeping the connection and from what provision we them spending wa-alladhna/and the ones (masculine pl. "any individuals" males/females) believing in what descends to you and what descends from before you and in the afterlife themselves assured being

      416 wa-alladhani/and the two (masculine dual; i.e. refers to "any two individuals&quot

      4617 wa-alladh/and the one (masculine singular; refers to "any individual" male/female) said to parents his (i.e. aforementioned person) uff!

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • H Offline
        H Offline
        huruf
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609132.0

        Salaam

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • E Offline
          E Offline
          No longer a Sunna-rejecter
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          When you stop denying that this passage, like most in the Quran, is addressed to men, things will become easier to understand. There are many distorted translations out there. 415 talks about female fornicators. According to a current hypothesis I have, these females become 'fatayatikum min ma malakat aymanakum.' 416 talks about male homosexuals. Men, the workers and providers/protectors of women DO NOT get house arrest for fornication and only get punished on earth if it results in cuckolding (zina) - i.e. they fornicate with a married woman. Women are not the providers and protectors of men, nor are they in charge of household finances. They should ideally be with their family or marry a good man. Why 4 witnesses for punishment of females? To prevent slander and punishing innocent women.

          Please note that 415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.'

          Quite interesting that today's corrupted world goes against these teachings completely. Yet so many here want God's message to conform to current insane and unhealthy standards.

          It seems I have to emphasize again

          415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.

          The "alatee" and "aladhani" arguments are secondary and those things are complementary. It is clear that many translators have ignored the phrasing and corrupted the translation.

          Focus on "among your women" and "among you." It does not say "among your women" and "among your men" or something like that.

          I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • N Offline
            N Offline
            Novice
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            It seems I have to emphasize again

            415 says 'those (feminine plural) among YOUR women' and 416 says 'those (masculine dual) among YOU.

            The "alatee" and "aladhani" arguments are secondary and those things are complementary. It is clear that many translators have ignored the phrasing and corrupted the translation.

            Focus on "among your women" and "among you." It does not say "among your women" and "among your men" or something like that.

            What I understood from my Arabic learning, Alladhani may be used to refer to a group of two people - either "a man and a woman" or "two men".

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • E Offline
              E Offline
              No longer a Sunna-rejecter
              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              Peace everyone,

              I find this and one other article of God alone Islam hard to accept.

              Anyway, I am interested in others opinions on the adultery and four witnesses.

              Thanks

              Adultery? Do not fall into the trap of conflating different terms. Most translators do this. 415-416 does not talk about adultery. Fahisha, in my opinion, is a general term for sexual immorality or fornication that does not involve cuckolding.

              Zina means cuckolding, which is when a wife cheats on her husband.

              I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • E Offline
                E Offline
                Ervin
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                Peace everyone.

                I still haven?t worked it out, but God willing I will. I have seen in one of the mainstream copies of the Quran where in the brackets next to where it says ? Or if God finds a way out for them?, it says ?by new legislation?. I am interested in your thoughts on what I am proposing.

                Thanks

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • H Offline
                  H Offline
                  huruf
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  What are you taling about?

                  Salaam

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • I Offline
                    I Offline
                    imrankhawaja
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    Peace everyone.

                    I still haven?t worked it out, but God willing I will. I have seen in one of the mainstream copies of the Quran where in the brackets next to where it says ? Or if God finds a way out for them?, it says ?by new legislation?. I am interested in your thoughts on what I am proposing.

                    Thanks

                    Peace brother,

                    if the bold part is in brackets then you really dnt need to worry about it. because you can put anything of your choice in it.
                    Why a God will find a way for them ? God already knows everything ..

                    Blessing of God upon you

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • H Offline
                      H Offline
                      huruf
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      4.15 is in the plural and there is no punishment. Amsikuhum fil buyut does not say imprison them, but shelter them in the houses, keep them safe in the houses. It looks very much like it is speaking about prostitutes who do the street. And do not throw them out till God opens for them a way to get a living, and if the do not find another way of getting a living keep them in the houses till they die. Keep them not imprison them.

                      Salaam

                      Amsikuhunna does not mean confine or incarcerate, never. Check every occurrence int he Qur'an. It never has that meaning, but it always has a helpful meaning.

                      On the other hand, what kind of punishment for the same "crime" is that that goes from 0 to perpetual imprisonment? It is preposterous.

                      The way out is that they find a way of earning their life like an employment or a marriage or somebody to help them to not need to prostitute.

                      Why is it that when something concerns women know-alls always find a way to twist it so that it crushes women instead of helping them.

                      Salaam

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      Reply
                      • Reply as topic
                      Log in to reply
                      • Oldest to Newest
                      • Newest to Oldest
                      • Most Votes


                      • Login

                      • Don't have an account? Register

                      • Login or register to search.
                      • First post
                        Last post
                      0
                      • Categories
                      • Recent
                      • Users