Palavers about Qur'aan.
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I hope you know that certain words need disambiguation. In Arabic the visual sign is that disambiguation noun is always in accusative case. is disambiguation accusative for .
You the Messenger tell them "May l disclose to you who is worse liquefying and irritating sufferer in this group; worse requital by the decree of Allah the Exalted?
He is whom Allah the Exalted has discarded as condemned and cursed; and has decreed criminal cognizance upon him.
And He the Exalted had declared some amongst such people as apes and swine;
And worse sufferer is he who served the defiant/aberrant.
They are the people who are mischievous, by their disposition - behavioral settlement. And they are distantly lost away from the even course to destination.And you the Messenger mention in the Book Idries
Beyond doubt he was always absolutely truthful; he was the Elevated and Chosen Distinct Allegiant-Subject of Allah the Exalted.
And We had elevated him to exalted place.You the Messenger pronounce, "Anyone who is absorbed in deliberate neglectful indifference, thereby Ar'Reh'maan will certainly permit for him- let him stretch in neglectful indifference, as an extension ;
Till such time when they would have seen what is being promised to them, either the infliction before the Last Day or the Last Moment;
Thereat, they will thenceforth know with certainty who is in liquefying-irritating state by way of placement, and is weakest, with regard to supportive people."Thank you brother for your translations. I appreciate your ability to use heavy terminology. My teacher told me that Arabic is a root base language and is very scientific. The derived words always reflect original meanings of the root they are derived from.
In my humble understanding Ibrahim was shown the status of Allah's System (Bait) and the crux of that system is that do not associate with him anything and keep it pure for those who and are humble and submissive to the commands of their Rabb.
For me associating anything with Allah means accepting and following any command from anyone, in violation of Allah's commands.
And of course it is my understanding by reflecting upon the roots and their derivatives used in the subject verses. I respect your understanding and in the end we are all individually responsible for our selves and also for misguiding others. So I request every reader of my posts to please verify, form the Quran by using your God gifted wisdom, whatever I said before agreeing to it.
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http//Allah's System (Bait)
Ask your teacher whether he can stretch the Root to infer meanings you have assigned to the Root?
Brother you are very good with Arabic grammar that's why I asked you in an earlier post "what is your understanding of the root " You never gave your understanding.
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.......They are the people who are mischievous, by their disposition - behavioral settlement. And they are distantly lost away from the even course to destination.
How did you stretch the root to mean "by disposition"? What I got from your earlier posts is that means "a Place". Please correct me if I got it wrong from your post.
And you the Messenger mention in the Book Idries
Beyond doubt he was always absolutely truthful; he was the Elevated and Chosen Distinct Allegiant-Subject of Allah the Exalted.
And We had elevated him to exalted place.So was he elevated to a physical place?
You the Messenger pronounce, "Anyone who is absorbed in deliberate neglectful indifference, thereby Ar'Reh'maan will certainly permit for him- let him stretch in neglectful indifference, as an extension ;
Till such time when they would have seen what is being promised to them, either the infliction before the Last Day or the Last Moment;
Thereat, they will thenceforth know with certainty who is in liquefying-irritating state by way of placement, and is weakest, with regard to supportive people."Is this placement physical?
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Brother you are very good with Arabic grammar that's why I asked you in an earlier post "what is your understanding of the root " You never gave your understanding.
I do not go out of the Lexicons and cross check their meanings with its usage in Qur'aan.
Root
Words from this Root in the Grand Qur'aan
a) Total occurrences 1391
b) No of constructions 97Lane's Lexicon He or it was. A verb of the class called incomplete, (ٌ because, with the agent which it comprises, or to which it relates, it cannot constitute a complete proposition; i. e., non-attributive. A particular place of being or existence. State, or condition.
This Deficient Verb, when prefixed to an Imperfect verb, converts the meanings of Imperfect verb into past continuous verb; meaning ?Used to perform the following act?, reflecting an habitual act.
When one of the conjugations of is in the jussive state, its may be omitted..
In these meanings used as noun of location 32 times.
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At a later time, We replaced the adverse conditions with affluent situation retaining it for longer till when they effaced the memory of bad days;
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He the Exalted told him "You can never see Me; however, you look towards the Mountain; thereby, if the Mountain retained its stationing place then you would soon be seeing Me.".
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And the Waves reached them from all sides?
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He said to them "You are irritant, with regard to taking a bad stance-position;
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The fact is that very aged father remains worried for him, therefore, retain one of us in his place;
Do I still need to explain this
Quote from Mazhar on Today at 103518 AM
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.......They are the people who are mischievous, by their disposition - behavioral settlement. And they are distantly lost away from the even course to destination.
How did you stretch the root to mean "by disposition"? What I got from your earlier posts is that means "a Place". Please correct me if I got it wrong from your post.
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I do not go out of the Lexicons and cross check their meanings with its usage in Qur'aan.
Root
Words from this Root in the Grand Qur'aan
a) Total occurrences 1391
b) No of constructions 97Lane's Lexicon He or it was. A verb of the class called incomplete, (ٌ because, with the agent which it comprises, or to which it relates, it cannot constitute a complete proposition; i. e., non-attributive. A particular place of being or existence. State, or condition.
Thanks brother for bringing in Lane's Lexicon. Lets see what I wrote earlier
In my humble understanding Ibrahim was shown the status of Allah's System (Bait) and the crux of that system is that do not associate with him anything and keep it pure for those who are humble and submissive to the commands of their Rabb.
I wrote "status" instead of Lane's "state or condition". Let me redo it as per Lane's meaning
In my humble understanding Ibrahim was shown the status state or condition of Allah's System (Bait) and the crux of that system is that do not associate with him anything and keep it pure for those who are humble and submissive to the commands of their Rabb.
He said to them "You are irritant, with regard to taking a bad stance-position;
Here you have used "bad stance" instead of physical place. But if I use this root for "state or condition" instead of a physical place it is not acceptable.
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Quote from Novice on Yesterday at 111212 AM
In my humble understanding Ibrahim was shown the status of Allah's System (Bait) and the crux of that system is that do not associate with him anything and keep it pure for those who are humble and submissive to the commands of their Rabb.I wrote "status" instead of Lane's "state or condition". Let me redo it as per Lane's meaning
In my humble understanding Ibrahim was shown the status state or condition of Allah's System (Bait) and the crux of that system is that do not associate with him anything and keep it pure for those who are humble and submissive to the commands of their Rabb.
Words are used either for literal meanings or as idiom particularly when they are in phrase.
is a Possessive Phrase. It is the Object of verb http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.061/249.%20Baaoo%20Ba%20Waw%20Hamza/8.gif a Form-II Verb. And this action was done http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.124/363.N%20Ibrahim%20alahissalam/7.gif
is something that is marked. For laying the foundation of a house the first thing done is the marking of . This is done not by the mason but by the owner of House.
Allah's System is described by the word Deen - the Constitution - the Code of Conduct ordain by Allah; and not .
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Words are used either for literal meanings or as idiom particularly when they are in phrase.
is a Possessive Phrase. It is the Object of verb http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.061/249.%20Baaoo%20Ba%20Waw%20Hamza/8.gif a Form-II Verb. And this action was done http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.124/363.N%20Ibrahim%20alahissalam/7.gif
is something that is marked. For laying the foundation of a house the first thing done is the marking of . This is done not by the mason but by the owner of House.
Allah's System is described by the word Deen - the Constitution - the Code of Conduct ordain by Allah; and not .
Thanks brother I have nothing more to stay. Traditional translation does not appeal to my reason and raises so many questions. So I agree to disagree because there is no point in going in circles.
Regards
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Thanks brother I have nothing more to stay. Traditional translation does not appeal to my reason and raises so many questions. So I agree to disagree because there is no point in going in circles.
Regards
I nowhere suggest traditional or modern translations. I just say academic rules of translating a source language text. Source language text is what it says, not that what I want to listen.
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I nowhere suggest traditional or modern translations. I just say academic rules of translating a source language text. Source language text is what it says, not that what I want to listen.
Are these your translation in an earlier post of yours in reply to my post?
I hope you know that certain words need disambiguation. In Arabic the visual sign is that disambiguation noun is always in accusative case. is disambiguation accusative for .
You the Messenger tell them "May l disclose to you who is worse liquefying and irritating sufferer in this group; worse requital by the decree of Allah the Exalted?
He is whom Allah the Exalted has discarded as condemned and cursed; and has decreed criminal cognizance upon him.
And He the Exalted had declared some amongst such people as apes and swine;
And worse sufferer is he who served the defiant/aberrant.
They are the people who are mischievous, by their disposition - behavioral settlement. And they are distantly lost away from the even course to destination.And you the Messenger mention in the Book Idries
Beyond doubt he was always absolutely truthful; he was the Elevated and Chosen Distinct Allegiant-Subject of Allah the Exalted.
And We had elevated him to exalted place.You the Messenger pronounce, "Anyone who is absorbed in deliberate neglectful indifference, thereby Ar'Reh'maan will certainly permit for him- let him stretch in neglectful indifference, as an extension ;
Till such time when they would have seen what is being promised to them, either the infliction before the Last Day or the Last Moment;
Thereat, they will thenceforth know with certainty who is in liquefying-irritating state by way of placement, and is weakest, with regard to supportive people." -
I tried to bring to academic rules and to accepted norms of how to read a book. It was an effort. Many people believe first in some book without having read but then accept not the words of books seeing somehow it does not appeal to their understanding of things.
Like great books Qur'aan is chunked. Major part of the text is Narrative.
Narrative writing uses time as its deep structure. Language features of narrative text areAdverb of time.
Past tense.
Time conjunction (when, then, thereat, suddenly, etc)
Specific character. The character of the episode is specific, not general.
Action verbs. A verb that shows an action.
Direct speech. It is to make the episode lively.
And people also naively forget that in injunctions straight forward substantives are used which cannot be assigned metaphorical meanings.
It is a command. It would be a strange imagination to say it means "You are directed to render clean my System".
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So lets say that there is a physical house of Allah on this earth. How does it become dirty and how do you clean it?
Have you never visited any monument - famous place - famous building in the world? But people do visit and they notice the arrangements of cleanliness for them.
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Thank you Mazhar. I got it.
Salaam
Another point to get convinced that it only means "the House". Visit by people gives rise to tourism industry. Brings riches to the local population. The town where the House was built is a barren valley. But became an enlivened place; the destination point of Silk Route.
The riches brought by it is also mentioned and reminded to people of Mecca in Qur'aan.
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Another point to get convinced that it only means "the House". Visit by people gives rise to tourism industry. Brings riches to the local population. The town where the House was built is a barren valley. But became an enlivened place; the destination point of Silk Route.
The riches brought by it is also mentioned and reminded to people of Mecca in Qur'aan.
I got it but you did not. I got it that you have your tunnel vision highly influenced by traditions and will not consider any other possibility.
Your post is a proof how "the House" has been used to gather riches like any other religious mafia in this world.
The religious elite would take away life long savings of people in the name of the most compassionate and guarantee forgiveness of all sins. It sweeps under the carpet all concept of justice of Allah swt making the Hakeem and the Aleem Creator a worldly king who uses his powers to punish or reward without any rules. The Quran tells us that He created rules for himself as well and He does not violate them. The most obvious one is in 612
.........He has prescribed for Himself mercy.......
So please you continue your way and let me carry on my way. There is no compulsion in Deen. We can share our understanding but should not compel each other for accepting it.
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I got it but you did not. I got it that you have your tunnel vision highly influenced by traditions and will not consider any other possibility.
Your post is a proof how "the House" has been used to gather riches like any other religious mafia in this world.
The religious elite would take away life long savings of people in the name of the most compassionate and guarantee forgiveness of all sins. It sweeps under the carpet all concept of justice of Allah swt making the Hakeem and the Aleem Creator a worldly king who uses his powers to punish or reward without any rules. The Quran tells us that He created rules for himself as well and He does not violate them. The most obvious one is in 612
.........He has prescribed for Himself mercy.......
So please you continue your way and let me carry on my way. There is no compulsion in Deen. We can share our understanding but should not compel each other for accepting it.
My total emphasis is following the academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition.
Al-Bait is a concept discussed in Qur'aan. However, Qur'aan also says people accept some and deny to accept some part of book.
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My total emphasis is following the academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition.
This is your translation from you web site of 171
The desire of approval of the Infinitely Glorious, Allah the Exalted, is the focus of all effort. He the Exalted had arranged the travel carrying His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad for journey; during some part of night?
Is this translation as per academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition?
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This is your translation from you web site of 171
The desire of approval of the Infinitely Glorious, Allah the Exalted, is the focus of all effort. He the Exalted had arranged the travel carrying His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad for journey; during some part of night?
Is this translation as per academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition?
This is transference of the meanings of the sentence of source text. Challenge the meanings by applying academic rules relating to grammar, syntax and semantics.
You can study about Real Life Event mentioned in it in my article
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http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm
The corporeal Journey far beyond the ascensions of Earthly Universe
Contents
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Unique Night Journey
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The Purpose of Unique Night Journey
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The Destination of Journey
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The Night Journey beyond the Terminus of Earthly Universe was corporeal.
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Ascension had no negative effect on visual faculty of the Elevated Messenger
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This is transference of the meanings of the sentence of source text. Challenge the meanings by applying academic rules relating to grammar, syntax and semantics.
This is your translation from you web site of 171
The desire of approval of the Infinitely Glorious, Allah the Exalted, is the focus of all effort. He the Exalted had arranged the travel carrying His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad for journey; during some part of night?
Is this translation as per academic rules in reading and translating a source language text which obviously does not take into consideration and cares for any tradition?
How did you get this name (highlighted in red) in your above translation?
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How did you get this name (highlighted in red) in your above translation?
Perhaps you seem not aware of Anaphora resolution.
Anaphora resolution is a must
Arabic is an agglutinative language, the pronouns can occur as suffixes of nouns, verbs or prepositions. Therefore, Anaphora Resolution is vital to understanding the meaning of Grand Qur?n. It means the problem of resolving what a pronoun refers to. In written or oral text anaphora can be thought of as ?pointing back or referring to something or someone mentioned earlier?. The entity to which it refers is called its antecedent. The process of determining the antecedent of an anaphor?lexical entity is called anaphora resolution. It is contrasted with cataphora that refers forwards, not backwards.
Pleonastic pronouns are considered non-anaphoric since they are not interpreted as linked to any expression (antecedent). For example, in English the pronoun "it" could be pleonastic, e.g., "It is important".
Pronouns form a special class of anaphors because of their empty semantic structure; they do not have an independent meaning from their antecedent. Thus they will refer a singular entity.
Grand Qur?n is characterized by very frequent use of anaphors. The majority of anaphoric devices in it appear around pronominal anaphors. Hence, the ability to resolve pronoun antecedent is vital to understanding the Qur?n. Grand Qur?n relies on the reader's world knowledge and intuition when using pronouns without explicitly including any antecedent information. For example a good number of second person pronouns in the Qur?n refer to exalted Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam with no prior mention of his name as we firstly notice in 24.
Similarly, the second person pronoun "you" is understood in command verbs in English. The pronoun "you" can refer a single person, either male or female, two persons or a group of persons. But in Arabic the second person pronouns make distinction between singular male and female, dual, and plural masculine and feminine. Therefore, this peculiar aspect must be reflected in translation.
Third person pronouns can refer both to persons, inanimate objects and fact. The inanimate/non-living objects have also gender distinction. Therefore, we will refer the feminine inanimate object by "she" and masculine by "it, that".
The referent of other pronouns will be mentioned in parenthesis for the convenience of the reader.
It is a Prepositional Phrase coupled with Possessive Phrase. The last third person pronoun (pronouns are always definite) is referent to the Relative Pronoun for Allah the Exalted. The First noun of Possessive Phrase is also definite by construct. It refers to the Specific Person. Specific person needs to be mentioned.