New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
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Peace Wakas.
Re Is there a precedent for this in Quran, i.e. doing X is allowed then a future revelation clearly changes doing X to desires/wrongdoing?I do not see it as changes doing X being is the desires/wrongdoing, rather not following an instruction is the desire/wrongdoing.
This is like saying if Qoran supersedes /replaces older scriptures, then following Qoran renders older scriptures wrong/false!
My opinion.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Wakas.
When Jesus came after Moses ,some "not doing X" became "doing X" example
"Li Uhilla Lakum Baada Alladi Hurrima Alaikum
When Mohammed came ,,similarly, some things changed as well like
1-Qiblah
2- Sawm.
The reason given is "Linaalama man yattabii Al Rassool ...(To dinstinguish true/false believers) and "Yuridu allah bikum Al yuas..( To help you stay the journey/ease it.I do not see it as a problem with X itself ,rather as a new trial for obedience. To each GOD has made a new trial/rules...
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace Wakas.
When Jesus came after Moses ,some "not doing X" became "doing X" example
"Li Uhilla Lakum Baada Alladi Hurrima Alaikum
When Mohammed came ,,similarly, some things changed as well like
1-Qiblah
2- Sawm.
The reason given is "Linaalama man yattabii Al Rassool ...(To dinstinguish true/false believers) and "Yuridu allah bikum Al yuas..( To help you stay the journey/ease it.I do not see it as a problem with X itself ,rather as a new trial for obedience. To each GOD has made a new trial/rules...
GOD bless you.
PeaceSalaam GL
Please see the red word in the verse above. It is "hurrima" a passive verb which means made haram for you. In a passive verb doer of action is not identified. So who made some things haram for them- God or their clergy or they themselves.
Brother I do not think this verse says that God made something forbidden and later sent Issa to make it permissible. His law does not change with the passage of time.
Regards
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peace all,
Almost 6 years after writing the article I am not aware of anyone who attempted to answer the 20 problems raised for the so-called "change of qiblah" verses, and in addition, I'm not aware of anyone who addressed the summarised list of problems I cite for the various understandings at the end of the article. Whatever your understanding is, run it through the checklist and see what happens.
It's a long and detailed article so perhaps I will cite just one problem that I have never heard anyone respond to (specifically from those who believe in the physical change in prayer direction view)
2145 clearly implies that if the messenger were to follow their qiblah after these revelations then he would be a wrongdoer and following their desires, yet he was apparently following it previously. Is there a precedent for this in Quran, i.e. doing X is allowed then a future revelation clearly changes doing X to desires/wrongdoing?
The question is simple.
There is no concept of "change" of Qibla in Qur'aan. There are only three nations in the world who have the concept of "Qibla", the Muslims since the days of Ibrahim alahissalam; the Jews and the Nisara (Christians). In the later period of Ibrahim alahissalam the Jews and Christians switched over to their independent Qibla concept.
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There is no concept of "change" of Qibla in Qur'aan.
The traditional story is the prophet and his followers prayed towards Jerusalem, then changed towards Kabbah, and thats what these verses discuss. Please be clear and concise as to what your view is, so we can actually test it with Quran.
2142 The foolish from the people will say "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on* it?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
2143 And as such We have made you a balanced community so that you will be witnesses over the people, and the messenger will be a witness over you. And not We made the qiblah/focal-point which thou were on it except that We make evident he who follows the messenger from he who will turn back on his heels. And indeed it was certainly a great (thing/test) except for those whom God guided; And not was God to let go waste your belief. Indeed, God is over the people Fully-Kind and Merciful.
2144 Indeed, We see thy face/consideration/purpose shifting/moving fee/in the sky/heaven; so We will surely turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee so turn thy face/purpose/consideration in the direction (of) al maSJD al haram and wherever that you are so turn your faces/purposes/considerations in its direction and indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what they do.
2145 And even if thou come to those who have been given the writ/decree with all signs/evidences they would not follow thy qiblah/focal-point, and nor will thou be a follower of their qiblah/focal-point, and nor some of them are followers of each others qiblah/focal-point. And surely if thou were to follow their desires from after what came to thou of the knowledge, indeed thou would then surely be among the wrongdoers. -
Yes brother Novice. I can see that "Hurrima" was not necessarily done by GOD, i.e could have been done by others.
The correction was done by GOD.
Thank you for the clarification.Brother Wakas, why do you need to know another example ? What is the problem with 2145?
In the context of all the verses about qiblah, I do not see a problem.
GOD bless you both.
Peace. -
The traditional story is the prophet and his followers prayed towards Jerusalem, then changed towards Kabbah, and thats what these verses discuss. Please be clear and concise as to what your view is, so we can actually test it with Quran.
I don't talk about gossips. I was referring Qur'aan.
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Brother Wakas, why do you need to know another example ? What is the problem with 2145?
Brother GL, dont betray your name. Using the example under debate would be the logical fallacy known as circular reasoning.
By the way, it's ok to admit you dont have any other example.
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The traditional story is the prophet and his followers prayed towards Jerusalem, then changed towards Kabbah, and thats what these verses discuss. Please be clear and concise as to what your view is, so we can actually test it with Quran.
2142 The foolish from the people will say "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on* it?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
2143 And as such We have made you a balanced community so that you will be witnesses over the people, and the messenger will be a witness over you. And not We made the qiblah/focal-point which thou were on it except that We make evident he who follows the messenger from he who will turn back on his heels. And indeed it was certainly a great (thing/test) except for those whom God guided; And not was God to let go waste your belief. Indeed, God is over the people Fully-Kind and Merciful.
2144 Indeed, We see thy face/consideration/purpose shifting/moving fee/in the sky/heaven; so We will surely turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee so turn thy face/purpose/consideration in the direction (of) al maSJD al haram and wherever that you are so turn your faces/purposes/considerations in its direction and indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what they do.
2145 And even if thou come to those who have been given the writ/decree with all signs/evidences they would not follow thy qiblah/focal-point, and nor will thou be a follower of their qiblah/focal-point, and nor some of them are followers of each others qiblah/focal-point. And surely if thou were to follow their desires from after what came to thou of the knowledge, indeed thou would then surely be among the wrongdoers."The foolish". http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00055.%20As%20sufha%20Seen%20Fa%20haa%20stupid/1.gif Who are the referent by this definite Adjective resembling participle?
Let us proceed step by step since the translation (bold) is ambiguous.
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2142 The foolish from the people will say "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on* it?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
I hope you know the importance of anaphora resolution. Who are referred by pronoun "them"?
Without doing it, the message in the text can never be correctly understood.
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Peace Wakas.
I do not follow your reasoning behind wanting an example.
Why would you need another example?
That is what I am wanting you to explain ,if you want to.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace,
GL, the reason I want another example is to see if this is the exception in Quran (i.e. the only one of its kind). If so, this would indicate an unusual or suspect occurrence, especially if there is an alternative explanation which does not require this to be "the odd one out". My analysis/article is looking at the options, weighing up the evidence for/against each option, then selecting which is the strongest. This can only be done once the evidence is on the table, so to speak.
Mazhar, chapter 73 does no such thing, although I can see why you'd cite that. Please try again.
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peace,
GL, the reason I want another example is to see if this is the exception in Quran (i.e. the only one of its kind). If so, this would indicate an unusual or suspect occurrence, especially if there is an alternative explanation which does not require this to be "the odd one out". My analysis/article is looking at the options, weighing up the evidence for/against each option, then selecting which is the strongest. This can only be done once the evidence is on the table, so to speak.
Mazhar, chapter 73 does no such thing, although I can see why you'd cite that. Please try again.
Earlier an order was given. Then latter on it was withdrawn and amended by giving reasons and pointing out a delicate incapability of human mind.
Pl just reflect on it, later I will give you another example.
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Peace Wakas.
You say, quote
"This can only be done once the evidence is on the table, so to speak".In this case, you should carry on looking for the evidence (unless there is a group of you studying/taking on this task) , when you draw your conclusion(Whatever you have found/not found...etc) ,others can then look at your whole argument/findings and comment.
When going through your work on "Al masjid Al haram" , I did not understand why you required the list.
Thank you for clarifying.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace,
GL, the quest to improve one's understanding is never ending so yes this will continue. One of the point of putting the article out there, is so that others who differ in view can bring their evidence/explanation to counter any issues raised in the article, e.g. they may have thought of something that I haven't. After such a process, we can ALL be better informed, and thus make better decisions.
Mazhar, nothing was withdrawn in chapter 73. Please be specific and cite the verse where it says do X, then the part/verse where it allegedly withdraws X. In chapter 73 all that was said was various time lengths were given during the night in which to study, and then later in 7320 says its natural you wont be able to keep track and that's ok, do what you can. This would obviously vary, sometimes it could be most of the night, sometimes half, sometimes a little etc. Looking forward to your next example.
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peace,
GL, the quest to improve one's understanding is never ending so yes this will continue. One of the point of putting the article out there, is so that others who differ in view can bring their evidence/explanation to counter any issues raised in the article, e.g. they may have thought of something that I haven't. After such a process, we can ALL be better informed, and thus make better decisions.
Mazhar, nothing was withdrawn in chapter 73. Please be specific and cite the verse where it says do X, then the part/verse where it allegedly withdraws X. In chapter 73 all that was said was various time lengths were given during the night in which to study, and then later in 7320 says its natural you wont be able to keep track and that's ok, do what you can. This would obviously vary, sometimes it could be most of the night, sometimes half, sometimes a little etc. Looking forward to your next example.
Ayah 1 commands to do a certain act.
They did it but could not follow the instruction about timings exactly as commanded.
Ayah 20 amended the injunction in Ayah 1.
