New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
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peace all,
Almost 6 years after writing the article I am not aware of anyone who attempted to answer the 20 problems raised for the so-called "change of qiblah" verses, and in addition, I'm not aware of anyone who addressed the summarised list of problems I cite for the various understandings at the end of the article. Whatever your understanding is, run it through the checklist and see what happens.
It's a long and detailed article so perhaps I will cite just one problem that I have never heard anyone respond to (specifically from those who believe in the physical change in prayer direction view)
2145 clearly implies that if the messenger were to follow their qiblah after these revelations then he would be a wrongdoer and following their desires, yet he was apparently following it previously. Is there a precedent for this in Quran, i.e. doing X is allowed then a future revelation clearly changes doing X to desires/wrongdoing?
The question is simple.
There is no concept of "change" of Qibla in Qur'aan. There are only three nations in the world who have the concept of "Qibla", the Muslims since the days of Ibrahim alahissalam; the Jews and the Nisara (Christians). In the later period of Ibrahim alahissalam the Jews and Christians switched over to their independent Qibla concept.
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There is no concept of "change" of Qibla in Qur'aan.
The traditional story is the prophet and his followers prayed towards Jerusalem, then changed towards Kabbah, and thats what these verses discuss. Please be clear and concise as to what your view is, so we can actually test it with Quran.
2142 The foolish from the people will say "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on* it?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
2143 And as such We have made you a balanced community so that you will be witnesses over the people, and the messenger will be a witness over you. And not We made the qiblah/focal-point which thou were on it except that We make evident he who follows the messenger from he who will turn back on his heels. And indeed it was certainly a great (thing/test) except for those whom God guided; And not was God to let go waste your belief. Indeed, God is over the people Fully-Kind and Merciful.
2144 Indeed, We see thy face/consideration/purpose shifting/moving fee/in the sky/heaven; so We will surely turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee so turn thy face/purpose/consideration in the direction (of) al maSJD al haram and wherever that you are so turn your faces/purposes/considerations in its direction and indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what they do.
2145 And even if thou come to those who have been given the writ/decree with all signs/evidences they would not follow thy qiblah/focal-point, and nor will thou be a follower of their qiblah/focal-point, and nor some of them are followers of each others qiblah/focal-point. And surely if thou were to follow their desires from after what came to thou of the knowledge, indeed thou would then surely be among the wrongdoers. -
Yes brother Novice. I can see that "Hurrima" was not necessarily done by GOD, i.e could have been done by others.
The correction was done by GOD.
Thank you for the clarification.Brother Wakas, why do you need to know another example ? What is the problem with 2145?
In the context of all the verses about qiblah, I do not see a problem.
GOD bless you both.
Peace. -
The traditional story is the prophet and his followers prayed towards Jerusalem, then changed towards Kabbah, and thats what these verses discuss. Please be clear and concise as to what your view is, so we can actually test it with Quran.
I don't talk about gossips. I was referring Qur'aan.
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Brother Wakas, why do you need to know another example ? What is the problem with 2145?
Brother GL, dont betray your name. Using the example under debate would be the logical fallacy known as circular reasoning.
By the way, it's ok to admit you dont have any other example.
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The traditional story is the prophet and his followers prayed towards Jerusalem, then changed towards Kabbah, and thats what these verses discuss. Please be clear and concise as to what your view is, so we can actually test it with Quran.
2142 The foolish from the people will say "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on* it?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
2143 And as such We have made you a balanced community so that you will be witnesses over the people, and the messenger will be a witness over you. And not We made the qiblah/focal-point which thou were on it except that We make evident he who follows the messenger from he who will turn back on his heels. And indeed it was certainly a great (thing/test) except for those whom God guided; And not was God to let go waste your belief. Indeed, God is over the people Fully-Kind and Merciful.
2144 Indeed, We see thy face/consideration/purpose shifting/moving fee/in the sky/heaven; so We will surely turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee so turn thy face/purpose/consideration in the direction (of) al maSJD al haram and wherever that you are so turn your faces/purposes/considerations in its direction and indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what they do.
2145 And even if thou come to those who have been given the writ/decree with all signs/evidences they would not follow thy qiblah/focal-point, and nor will thou be a follower of their qiblah/focal-point, and nor some of them are followers of each others qiblah/focal-point. And surely if thou were to follow their desires from after what came to thou of the knowledge, indeed thou would then surely be among the wrongdoers."The foolish". http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00055.%20As%20sufha%20Seen%20Fa%20haa%20stupid/1.gif Who are the referent by this definite Adjective resembling participle?
Let us proceed step by step since the translation (bold) is ambiguous.
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2142 The foolish from the people will say "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on* it?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
I hope you know the importance of anaphora resolution. Who are referred by pronoun "them"?
Without doing it, the message in the text can never be correctly understood.
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Peace Wakas.
I do not follow your reasoning behind wanting an example.
Why would you need another example?
That is what I am wanting you to explain ,if you want to.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace,
GL, the reason I want another example is to see if this is the exception in Quran (i.e. the only one of its kind). If so, this would indicate an unusual or suspect occurrence, especially if there is an alternative explanation which does not require this to be "the odd one out". My analysis/article is looking at the options, weighing up the evidence for/against each option, then selecting which is the strongest. This can only be done once the evidence is on the table, so to speak.
Mazhar, chapter 73 does no such thing, although I can see why you'd cite that. Please try again.
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peace,
GL, the reason I want another example is to see if this is the exception in Quran (i.e. the only one of its kind). If so, this would indicate an unusual or suspect occurrence, especially if there is an alternative explanation which does not require this to be "the odd one out". My analysis/article is looking at the options, weighing up the evidence for/against each option, then selecting which is the strongest. This can only be done once the evidence is on the table, so to speak.
Mazhar, chapter 73 does no such thing, although I can see why you'd cite that. Please try again.
Earlier an order was given. Then latter on it was withdrawn and amended by giving reasons and pointing out a delicate incapability of human mind.
Pl just reflect on it, later I will give you another example.
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Peace Wakas.
You say, quote
"This can only be done once the evidence is on the table, so to speak".In this case, you should carry on looking for the evidence (unless there is a group of you studying/taking on this task) , when you draw your conclusion(Whatever you have found/not found...etc) ,others can then look at your whole argument/findings and comment.
When going through your work on "Al masjid Al haram" , I did not understand why you required the list.
Thank you for clarifying.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace,
GL, the quest to improve one's understanding is never ending so yes this will continue. One of the point of putting the article out there, is so that others who differ in view can bring their evidence/explanation to counter any issues raised in the article, e.g. they may have thought of something that I haven't. After such a process, we can ALL be better informed, and thus make better decisions.
Mazhar, nothing was withdrawn in chapter 73. Please be specific and cite the verse where it says do X, then the part/verse where it allegedly withdraws X. In chapter 73 all that was said was various time lengths were given during the night in which to study, and then later in 7320 says its natural you wont be able to keep track and that's ok, do what you can. This would obviously vary, sometimes it could be most of the night, sometimes half, sometimes a little etc. Looking forward to your next example.
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peace,
GL, the quest to improve one's understanding is never ending so yes this will continue. One of the point of putting the article out there, is so that others who differ in view can bring their evidence/explanation to counter any issues raised in the article, e.g. they may have thought of something that I haven't. After such a process, we can ALL be better informed, and thus make better decisions.
Mazhar, nothing was withdrawn in chapter 73. Please be specific and cite the verse where it says do X, then the part/verse where it allegedly withdraws X. In chapter 73 all that was said was various time lengths were given during the night in which to study, and then later in 7320 says its natural you wont be able to keep track and that's ok, do what you can. This would obviously vary, sometimes it could be most of the night, sometimes half, sometimes a little etc. Looking forward to your next example.
Ayah 1 commands to do a certain act.
They did it but could not follow the instruction about timings exactly as commanded.
Ayah 20 amended the injunction in Ayah 1.
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Ayah 1 commands to do a certain act.
They did it but could not follow the instruction about timings exactly as commanded.
Ayah 20 amended the injunction in Ayah 1.
I assume you mean 732. In any case, 7320 didn't amend anything, it clarified. Also, you cant just stop at 732, you have to read the next few verses that discuss the same instruction.
A) 732-4 stand the night except a little....... half of it or a little less or more... <-------- that's the complete instruction
B) 7320 God knows you stand a little less than 2/3 of the night, half of it, a third of it.....
The time frames of (A) and (B) are similar and can/do coincide, in other words no amendment.
If you disagree, fine. If you have other examples let us know.
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peace all,
Let's now move onto another point. To those who believe in the Traditional version of events (i.e. believers were praying towards Jerusalem, then switched to cuboid called Kabbah).
The Quran clearly states in 2150 that a reason given for the apparent change in qiblah is "so not will be for the people against you debate". In other words, doing this change will result in less/no debate/argument.
Can anyone explain why a united group (i.e. believers/jews/christians/etc all praying together in one direction, then believers disuniting and changing their prayer direction) will result in less debate/argument.
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I assume you mean 732. In any case, 7320 didn't amend anything, it clarified. Also, you cant just stop at 732, you have to read the next few verses that discuss the same instruction.
A) 732-4 stand the night except a little....... half of it or a little less or more... <-------- that's the complete instruction
B) 7320 God knows you stand a little less than 2/3 of the night, half of it, a third of it.....
The time frames of (A) and (B) are similar and can/do coincide, in other words no amendment.
If you disagree, fine. If you have other examples let us know.
Please read again, time frames are not the same they were directed to observe.
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Earlier an order was given. Then latter on it was withdrawn and amended by giving reasons and pointing out a delicate incapability of human mind.
Pl just reflect on it, later I will give you another example.
Brother Mazhar I do not see an order given in this verse by God and then later withdrawn. Our prophet and others were doing an act which was burdening them so merciful God told them to not overdo it.
How can an all knowing God order something which is not in accordance with human brain capability and has to withdraw it later. He does not err.Regards
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Brother Mazhar I do not see an order given in this verse by God and then later withdrawn. Our prophet and others were doing an act which was burdening them so merciful God told them to not overdo it.
How can an all knowing God order something which is not in accordance with human brain capability and has to withdraw it later. He does not err.Regards
Please read it and see what is it, do I need saying imperative verb is an order.
O You who leads best the caravan; the most vigilant, cautious, careful; listen
Stand during night, but little, not all night,
Half the night or you may abate a little thereof;
Or you may enhance a little more time than half night;
And recite the Qur'aan distinctly making every syllable, vowel, pause prominent, in the manner of proportion, symmetry, uniformity and evenness.Prescribed measure of time could not be followed strictly as ordered, and
7320Certainly your Sustainer Lord knows that you the Messenger stand sometimes two thirds of the night, and half the night and one third of the night;
And those of the party who accompanied you.And Allah the Exalted proportions the measure of the Night and the Day.
He knew that you might not be able to keep track of measure {while deeply concentrating on recitation of Qur?n}. Therefore, Allah the Exalted has turned to you.
Thereby, you people read that much part of Qur?n which is felt effectively convenient
He knows that there would certainly be among you people in ill-health;
And others quite frequently travel through the land, in pursuit of the bounty of Allah the Exalted;
Yet others will be engaged in confronting war/fighting in Allah's Cause.Therefore, you people read that much part of it which is felt convenient
Moreover, you people maintain Institution of As-sa'laat Time Bound Protocol of Servitude and allegiance; and willingly pay Az-zaka'at financial liability for economic uplift of society;
And you people heartily gift to Allah the Exalted a goodwill shearing from your wealth financially help people only for seeking approval and appreciation of Him the Exalted;
Be aware; whatever good should you send ahead for yourselves , you will find it secure with Allah the Exalted.
You would find it most substantive and magnified, by way of returns/reward.And incline yourselves to self accountability to seek bucketing-protection-forgiveness of Allah the Exalted for lapses/omissions.
It is a fact that Allah the Exalted is repeatedly Forgiving-Overlooking-the fountain of Mercy.
