What is the Qur'ans stance on homosexuality?
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Peace,
Fahisha meaning
fahisha (FA, HA, SH) meaning something ugly, abomination, immorality.
Other occurences 6151, 2169, 1224, 1224
None of them fit the explanation of homosexuality. It's a general word used for something immoral. To find out what is immoral we have to look at the whole Quran. Saying this Fahisha is proof for condemning homosexuality is for any logic mind a circular argumentation. In 1224 it is mentioned alongside transgression. Again it's a general label for immorality and does not specify what that immorality consists of. We do find evidence in Quran what this immorality can consist of such as killing children, the murder of oneself and the murder of others as in 6151. The list however does not contain homosexuality.
Shahwatan meaning
With desire, with wanting. In verse 781 we find latatna l-rijla shahwatan. Breaking it down let's look at the occurences of latatuna. Does it mean a sexual approachment or drawing to in the other occurences? 213 uses the same verb. It says "afatatna l-si'ra". "Are you drawn to magic?" "Would you be approaching magic?" Ask yourself, do people get drawn to magic in a sexual way? It's clear "latatuna" describes a fascination resulting in irresistible attraction as one would be by the appearance of angels, just like some would be drawn to magic.
- It's contextual proof. I repeated many times there is no Nisa mentioned outside Luts daughters. 781 is Gods final judgment on the people of the city and their being drawn to angels instead of Luts daughters. Why would God ignore in 781 the ultimate rejection of Luts kind offer? You cant explain 781 without including that ultimate sinful act of approaching on Angels and rejecting Luts offer. It makes no sense at all the accusation would ignore the context of what preceeds the judgment and come up with some rabbit out of the hat, a brand new accusation unmentioned before that should imply homosexuality.
Concerning the riyal, I demonstrated tatuna is not just a approachment by other occurence in Quran. It's an irresistible attraction to. What in the story of Lut could have caused such attraction on the crowd if not the angels? Are you saying all the men in that city were so remarkable they drew a crowd like magic can? If you understand the meaning of tatuna, its illogical to be drawn to all the average men in the city. That is not what tatuna means.
- Agreed.
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Peace runninglikezebras.
Thanks for your post. I think I understand up to a the point of "Yahfadu furujahum".
I have no problem with desires. I have no prejudice. I also strongly believe in "Freedom of choice".
However, Qoran has a limit when it comes to "Yahfadu Furujahum"! It applies to all believers
So in a way the translation of and becomes less important .
What is important is to try and understand our behaviour according to the limits of Qoran whoever we are if we believe
Also we have the warning if we disregard GOD s message
I hope that explains where I stand.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace,
I agree with the essence of your message. With one exception, I do not think "Yahfadu Furujahum" nullifies striving to get a correct translation of 2929. It contains a fabrication in translation that specifically targets a group of people with a certain sexual preference. No matter our sexual preference we should lower our gaze and try not to act only on lust. But if we keep the hadith influence in 2929 no matter if homosexuals lower their gaze and do everything right, people will still find (false) Quranic proof to judge them based on what they do with a loyal partner in mutual consent or while remaining chaste.
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If Homosexuality is the sin why all,women,chikdren,animals in the City should be punished?
When Our Messengers came to Abraham with the good news, they said "We are indeed going to destroy the people of this township for truly they are (addicted to) crime." (31) He said "But there is Lut there." They said "We know well who is there we will certainly save him and his following except his wife she is of those who lag behind!" (32) And when Our Messengers came to Lut, he was grieved on their account, and felt himself powerless (to protect) them but they said "Fear thou not nor grieve we are (here) to save thee and thy following, except thy wife she is of those who lag behind. (33) "For we are going to bring down on the people of this township a Punishment from heaven, because they have been wickedly rebellious." (34) And We have left thereof an evident Sign, for any people who (care to) understand. (35)
What is this evident sign?Some say it is the Dead Ocean.
Why this genocide?Is there something wrong with the Gens of this People to be vanished?Ponder over "...for truly they are crime....because they have been wickedly rebellious." -
Good point. It does not make sense if the essence of the accusation was homosexuality. It would make no sense destroying the whole city. It's just not possible the entire town was homosexual without exception including children, women.
Again if we look at the correct accusation, wanting the angels rejecting Luts proposal and commiting evil it starts making sense.
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Yes,this is the right accusation for the Gang of the City rushing to Lut.
1.wanting the angels
2.rejecting luts proposal
And the accusation for the City
All evil deeds
By the way Adam and his spouse after approaching to the Tree they became one of the "Thalimoun" like the People of Lut and their punisment was Exil.The other term is "Fasiq" transgessing the rule of god makes you to become one of them.Sodom is not the only place in the world were divine punishment took place for example Pompeji is a good example why the volcano covered the town,you find People mumifised in coitus. -
"Marriage in the Qur'an is nothing more than ? literally ? a contract between a man and a woman in which the man provides the woman with financial support in return for exclusive sexual access. It?s a contract that makes sex and reproduction legal in the eyes of God and legitimate in the eyes of society. Since marriage is a contract premised on vaginal intercourse and financial obligation between a man and a woman, same-sex couples could not engage in one. They could construct an arrangement for inheritance and shared property that mimicked marriage, but it would not be marriage." (Variety Jonathan AC Brown)
The moral law is defined by God - not us, and the PATTERN (each creature has it's own) as defined by God is explained in the verses below but do they include same sex relationships?
4913 "Mankind! We have created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes, so that you might come to know each other. The noblest of you in God's sight is the one who fears God most. God is all knowing and all-aware."
5345 "That He created pairs (couples, mates, spouses), male and female,"
7539 "producing from it both sexes, male and female.
923 "By Him who created the male and the female,"
2223 "Your women are a cultivation for you. So approach your cultivation as you wish towards goodness. And be aware of God and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers."
4249-50 "The kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs to God. He creates what he wills. He gives daughters to whomever He wills, and He gives sons to whom He wills, or grants both, sons and daughters, to whoever He wills, and leaves whoever He wills infertile. He is indeed All-Knowing, Most Capable."
God has a pattern/system, and in order to be bil-mutaqna (God conscious) it is important to follow his system especially when it comes to our relationships. If you cannot, then this sign gives you the answer
2433 "Let those who cannot find someone to marry, maintain chastity until God helps you with his grace... "
This is how I understand the verses given. It is not personal toward anyone, nor am I standing in judgement.
245 "And seek help through patience and prayer, and indeed, it is difficult except for the humbly submissive "
sj
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Isn't the whole marriage and monogamy business all about 1) social stability, and 2) personal stability (practical, financial, psychological, physical...)
Not sure same sex unions is rejected here. What would be the point to reject it?
Just pondring. Not taking any particular side. -
Isn't the whole marriage and monogamy business all about 1) social stability, and 2) personal stability (practical, financial, psychological, physical...)
Not sure same sex unions is rejected here. What would be the point to reject it?
Just pondring. Not taking any particular side.The question is man and oman procure the reposition of generations. reproduction. Homosexuality does not procure anything of such trascendence. So it is for the self care of society that a frame is put on to protect reproduction. For instance a marriage of a woman past menopause is not of the same trascendence as a woman who is still reproductive.
So in fact there is not reason for the Qur'an or anybody or anything else to adopt a stand regarding personal, individual relationships. That would be a personal question and not a social question. Just like friendship, o may be it would just be a friendship.
It is the bogus social accoutrments of marriage that has made that nowadays people of same sex want ta romantic marriage. it is a cultural thing, not a real need for the society.
Salaam
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Peace,
Can anyone provide ayats from Allah regarding homosexuality,
and not from prophet lot, but instructions, commandments from
the creator.peace,
Homosexuality 415-16, 26165-166, 2755, 2928-29,
source FM
prophet lot is the only personality who deals with this issue .. so he must be in the show for running the picture..
but as we discuss earlier many months ago i evolve my understanding .. on people who are catagorised as in between male and female...
so by defualt the laws of (male vs male) (female vs female) exempt from the catagory above...i experienced this because i see this with my own eyes ..there is a normality in the system of God but a perfection in everything only belong to God .so in creation and births there may b some abnormalities in some cases .. its very normal...
God bless you brother
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Peace,
Can anyone provide ayats from Allah regarding homosexuality,
and not from prophet lot, but instructions, commandments from
the creator.I am afraid that you are ot going to get what you ask for.
hy should God give specific instructions concerning "homosexuality"?
Has God any disposition regarding "heterosexuality"?
We might start with that and see.
And I think this has been asked before, I have asked it before. Would it have been better if what Lut's people suposedly did to males was done to females?
I really do not know what Lut's people did to males. What as it?
Where is it said?
Salaam
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Peace,
I am not exactly sure.
Well hawk99, one can maybe take the verses 2755, 781 as ayats regarding homosexuality from Allah.Peace Rilum, 2755 and 781 are prophets lot's reaction to his situation
and his point of view. Can his reaction be used or understood as
commandments or instructions that we all should adhere to?peace,
Homosexuality 415-16, 26165-166, 2755, 2928-29,
source FM
prophet lot is the only personality who deals with this issue .. so he must be in the show for running the picture..
but as we discuss earlier many months ago i evolve my understanding .. on people who are catagorised as in between male and female...
so by defualt the laws of (male vs male) (female vs female) exempt from the catagory above...i experienced this because i see this with my own eyes ..there is a normality in the system of God but a perfection in everything only belong to God .so in creation and births there may b some abnormalities in some cases .. its very normal...
God bless you brother
Yes I agree, if there is some sort of punishment for being gay I have not found it
yet in Quran, even though I personally find homosexuality abhorrent I must let
them live their lives as they wish as long as they obey public lewdness
laws as per Quran. -
Yes I agree, if there is some sort of punishment for being gay I have not found it
yet in Quran,peace brother hawk,
although i dunno about any specific punishment what quran states but also lot of other things we dunno what punishment quran states
example
lie.
dishonesty.
disgracing parents.
backbitting.
troublemaking.
INVASIONso if we look more deeply we can see the punishment was to wipe all of them out ..(NATION OF LOT)
but again if it was the decision of God to wipe all of them then why we still see lot of homosexuality.. ?
and AGAIN we can see lot of nations get destroyed due to lot of wrong doings as per scriptures, so we can see people are still doing those wrong doings now a days. so there is something what we need to add in our understanding about all this myth.maybe someone can see and find out either the punishment of lashes only apply to male/female relation or also this relation.
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Yes I agree, if there is some sort of punishment for being gay I have not found it
yet in Quran, even though I personally find homosexuality abhorrent I must let
them live their lives as they wish as long as they obey public lewdness
laws as per Quran.The link below might be helpful about the punishment for homosexuality in the quran
<a href="https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607365.msg365820#msg365820">It is faahishatan</a>
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Of course homosexuality is a gross sin. How can it be normal? Judging from the year this thread started, i can see that it was related to big campaign of LGBT movement.
415-16, 26165-166, 2755, 2928-29, 780-81,1178-79, 1570-73, 5136 and 7029-30 give me enough information about Quran?s stance on homosexuality. But for people who keep trying to justify homosexuality (regardless of their motives), just read 7031
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70.30 which is what 70.31 refers speaks of azwaj without mention that gives any hint as to sex, except what may be in people's minds. And the word zawj, plural, azwaj in the Qur'an is too large to really assert without any possibility of doubt that here it refers to a partner of the opposite sex.
And this is nothing to do with any personal opinion or feelings.
Salaam
