Nature of Satan
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Salam to All,
Please can anyone tell me who is Satan, what is his Nature i.e is he a Jinn by nature or creation or what is he (obviously he is not human) or is he an Angel.
Please don't ask me what I is he according to me because I wouldn't have ask. If you want help me understand you are welcome and I will appreciate it
God bless you are
peace centi50,
Shaitan is an adjective .. can b used for human,jinn,animal (in some cases for toys) like evil doll rotfl > jk..
you are mixing ibless with shaitan ..
probably ibless was the first one as per religious tales/stories who act shaitani.. so he owned that title shaitan.. but in reality its an adjective.
EXAMPLE in our daily conversations we sometimes say "shaitan" to a kid or an animal like monkey when we see him doing things.
coming back to your second one "what was his nature" you have to set the parameters according to what source you want to highlight his nature.. ? if you want to know by quran then as per quran ibless is jinn..
about the malaika/controllers theory .. we have to see either its possible for a jinn or human to become controller, if it is then there is nothing more to think about it.. we are actually far away to understand the real nature of angel so its difficult to decide either he was malika or not ..
another thing mayb the stories of adam vs eve vs shaitan is somehow metaphorical.
intrestingly evil must exist to let human percieve what is good. evil part is connected with human nature as well as good part to see and understand the mystery behind what creator created.. (HUMAN BEING) = abilty of doing good and evil..
God bless you all
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There's no difficulties in finding out who are angels, iblees, jin, SATAN...let me explain again bit in detail ..
Just coz people call a toy or child as Satan, doesn't mean it can be called with meaning.. people can call anything but truth we got to search from QURAN... Human cannot become Angel as kawaja indicated with a possibility saying human can become angels .. No.. Angels only from Jin as per QURAN..
Do you agree with me that God created Jins before human? You have to folks coz QURAN says so..
Do you agree with me that only Jin and Human will be put in hell and for that matter in Janna ? Yes coz that's what Quran says.. Irrelevant the creatures created for the service of human and Jin in Janna..
Jin and human ONLY will be in Hell whatever their status are..be it iblees or Satan or mujrim or mushrik or kafir or Munafiq.. Whatever God will..
God is alone forever even before a single creature is being created.. Who is the first of those who created is kind of mystry.. But not out of reach for a kind of study..
Okay let me explain JINS... These are the first creations of God, after the Janna was created where the Jins are accommodated with. Out of those Jins God has given them a kind of elite status which is called Angels for them to perform various tasks in the Gods kingdom for example those angels who are with Arsh or meekail or Jebreel or those who involved in the creation process of this earth and heavens or guardians of earth and heavens or the angels who decend with God on judgment day, etc etc. Those angels are utmost among the Jins.. It is like giving a status of prophets to a human being.. Just for the sake of example.. So those Jins were living in the Janna with their God gifted status as angels and also normal Jins with whatever mindset and positions of their own but definitely not the level of angels ..
Now the next step is God created this earth and heavens, for this God used these Angels not all of them but whoever God willed.. It's clear by saying God didn't let them know the creation process.. Otherwise they would have known.. For example Iblees.. He would have known how the creation took place.. But he was not fortunate.. Coz God knew his destiny.. Remember God Himself created the Janna where all these angels are living.... That's naturally understanble God won't give a life to another creature before creating a place for it to live with..
Yes..the creation of this world was taken place at certain time. God consulted with those elite groups (not with all Jins) about another creation which is not Jin but human... They were against it with their limited knowledge.. But God knew what those angels didn't know. Once the first human is created God wanted all those Angels (not all jins) to serve/submit sujud to Adam... They were not to refuse to God's instructions coz their heart were pure and not arrogant and serving God with submission .. But they were not forced but with their free will.. But as per clear verse 711-12 Iblees (it's a name of one of those angels) refused... God gave him high status of angels among jins not to boast of it.. But he boasted saying to the question of God what prevented you from sujud.. Iblees replied I was created by fire.. And I am better than (Him) Adam.. How iblees judged himself that he is better and fire is better than clay.. That's ego... Who is better than another is to judge by Creator and not by creature.. Iblees could not get out of that shackle.. He remained same.. And since iblees was intentionally misguided by God for his ego, iblees begged for time till the day of ressurection.. So iblees knew about the day of ressurection even before Adam was put in Janna to live and even before Adam was sent to the earth as well. Coz iblees was among the elite group.. It's very fair he knew it.. For me it's very clear according to Quran that this feud took place in the presence of God and not in Janna. It was like a big conference between God and the elite angels having the Adam in between.. No clue whether they all saw God, but no for me.. God says after the feud to iblees 713 get down from this, it is not for you to be arrogant Here.... So in the presence of God there is no arrogance. But later iblees was sent to the Janna and Adam and his wife were living. How long they were living till the day they approached to the tree is mystry.. But for me it has to be quite bit a long time.. Iblees is respited by God and iblees challenged to God to stay against the path of God.. God said hearing it 718 " ... get out from Here... " it was not from the Janna but from the place where the feud took place.. Now feud completely over and Adam was taught everything and was asked to live in Janna by having whatever they wish (whatever they wish is not a simble of Earth but Janna..we can't get whatever we wish on earth) 719.. Okay.. Now time elapsed.. One day.. This tragedy happens and Adam fails.. Strangly God used the word Satan 720... What is Satan here.. Satan is descendants and followers of iblees out of those jins who are not ranked as angels and who were living in the Janna freely... For that group the leader is iblees... So it is a status of group of jins who are deviated from the path of God and stays against the path as barrier to others (human and Jin)..1698(has reason to seek refuge from God from Satan) They have physics for sure.. 717...
And let's look how Satan deceived..as some say it was only from mind of Adam.. No.. Satan came in front of him in whatever physic he was and told 720 " ... Your (dual) Lord didn't forbid you this tree save that you should become ANGELS or IMMORTALS.. " 7"21 .... he (Satan) swore by God to them (dual)... Verily I am (singular) one of the sincere well wishers for you (dual)..
Flow of the verse clearly indicates Satan (only one of those descendants / followers of Iblees) approached Adam and his wife and told what he told as per above.. These are not mind games or dispute .. These are real as per verse..
How can it be a dispute inside Adam's mind.. When Satan says I am your well wisher and swore. Look at the previous verse.. He deceives Adam a thing which Adam even not known for sure.. That is to become an Angel or Immortal... Human cannot become Angel.. The ego of losing the status of angel by iblees made him to make a such a story... Coz being an angel is God gifted position where no human can near.. And the other one is immortals.. That's another set of angels out of the same elite whose life God won't terminate. You can come to conclusion who these immortals by reading the verse in which God says in the Day trumpet is blown all will die except those God will.. Yes.. They are those immortals .how Adam knows these .. But iblees knew coz he was among those elite.. Unfortunate fellow..
Now Adam got duped and Adam disobeyed his Lord.. Now what God says.. 722 " .... And Their (dual) Lord called out them (dual).. Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you verily SATAN is an open enemy to you(dual)..
Interestingly God didn't say iblees is an enemy to you but Satan... So iblees had his mighty group formed for his challenge and they are Satan...
Now what happens.. Adam and his wife got it totally who their enemy is.. 723
But what will God do? For what purpose Adam was created and where to place him all well known to God.. All knower of the Ghaib - unseen, telling to Adam and rest (all wife Adam, iblees, descendants of iblees (Satan) and good and bad jins) to get down to Earth.. It's not shifting within jannah to another place of jannah but directly from super enjoyment to the testing field with hardships.. 725 So till the day of ressurection we all will remain on this very earth and die here and will be ressurected from this same Earth
Hope you understand what's immortals, Angels iblees, Jin, Satan and human..
Two main characters here in this are Iblees and Adam.. God knew who was iblees even though he was among elite angels and God knew who is Adam though he was in Janna.. Nothing is free from God without obedience to Him... As God stated no arrogance IN His presence.. The best way to deserve the place of everlasting enjoyment as of angels is to surrender to God without arrogance.. So God sent all those who violated that to this very pre-planned earth to be put under strict test and brought back as deserving ones.. Angels most probably would have never ever violated God with arrogance so they remain there without being put to test but obeying God's order and being the servers of us..
This shows clearly from the beginning of creation of jannah and the creation of this world and the promise of creation of janna accompanied by Hell, God wants to rule His Kingdom in His own way and whoever goes arrogant against it and violate it, will be punished.. But not in the way which is injustice but with extreme balance of justice.. That's the nature of God..
God guide us -
peace jkhan,
hope u doing good in life.people can call anything but truth we got to search from QURAN...
thats y quran advise people to use their mind,facilities,reason,logic,critical thinking etc (1736) then weigh and balance things on level peace
Human cannot become Angel as kawaja indicated with a possibility saying human can become angels .. No.. Angels only from Jin as per QURAN..
brother i m sure you did not understand what i was on about with that possibility.. i ll come back to you with this in the end of post , first see what Quran actually said about IBLESS..
in 11 places author used this Name " ibless " in all of these verses. we didnt see author of quran addressed ibless as angel/malaika/controller..
instead of keep guessing what he was ? author just mention once in 18 50 = (he was jin) ..
so we cant say he was angel , we need atleast one evidence for that claim.. (as per Quran).
coming back to your " POSSIBILTY " for God using this word is not appropriate..
before jumping to hereafter life and assumptions just wana let you know i m not aware or have any slight idea as i never experienced that life or i never see somebody who already experienced that life.. lets start from this life..we started from kid LOOP = we start crawling, walking , running , studying , earning, giving birth to offsprings, and died)
in this loop everybody usually upgraded a level always when he finish the first level.. our roles also changed from time to time like once we need hand of parents to walk and then we become parent and we give hand to our kids in the same time some cases we give hand to our parents in their old age... then we worked under somebody and slowly slowly people work under us... its all about roles and purpose of life.
if there is a purpose of this life then the purpose of life hereafter is also there.
current time space is just one thing what we can percieve at this moment , when i think these things lot of things (my own) automatically comes in my mind that link one thing to another..
so i think the qualified ( beings) from this time space will be serving more duties and roles whatever their creator wish from them.. its not a difficult thing for creator to provide any character to (jinn,angel,human) .. basically roles... let say there is a role for one individual to look after the laws of physics in new universe.. or in already going on universe ,
humanity, angels, jinns and this universe is not the only thing , God creations are in trillions , and there are trillions of purpose fullfillers (what we imagine as controllers) in the kingdom of God..
my things are sometimes on a next level lol what i cant actually explain in post i feel its a face to face discussion.. examples
when we see universe started 13.7 billions years ago (as per science) then another thing take place i.e what was the time before time ?
when we see universe started from singularity then we think what was the space without space ?(time without time vs universe without space) at this extreme point human mind abilites give up thinking or making any ideas..
but who knows how many times this (13.7 figure) repeated in overall history of human perception
who know how many characters burried under the pages of history..a human can only understaand this 13.7 and still discovering a lot with lot of missing links..
what if there were angels from different galaxies and their laws of theri galaxies are totally different ... (may b the are care takers of balck holes ) ...
actually therez a lot to talk but i think its better if we start a new thread for sharing the ideas whatever anybody have in their mind..
God bless you all
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Yes kawaja, your statement ?so we cant say he was angel , we need atleast one evidence for that claim.. (as per Quran).?
Iblees should be strongly considered as per quran 1850 Jin, and he was an angel as per 20116, 234?
20116 ?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused.?
234 ?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused, and waxed proud, and so he became one of the unbelievers.?
With the above exemplary two verses, if one cannot deduce that IBLEES is not an Angel, then there will creep issues based on the verses..
For example, if a teacher says to kids ?Please stand up those who are under age 8, so one kid didn?t stand up coz he was above age 8..? Can the teacher ask him why you didn?t get up when I asked you to do so.. Kid can say ?You didn?t refer me but you asked those who are under 8.. Get out of the class? ha ha.. that?s funny? or the Kid could have said ? I am older and better and stronger than the rest.. that?s why I didn?t stand?
Okay sorry for the simple example? So How can God say to Iblees ?what prevented you from making sujud to adam when God Himself asked the Angels to the Sujud to Adam ..? Iblees could have said You(My Lord) asked only from Angels, why should I Sujud..? logically right.. isn?t it.. But iblees didn?t say so, but iblees said I am better than Adam and You created me by fire.. Fire is the source God created the Jins.. that?s quran.. So, isn?t Iblees a Jin but by his status was an Angel? So, can?t we conclude that all angels are created by Fire and they are physically Jins but with their status Anjels?Don?t you get the rough idea by Satan duping statement and saying to Adam
?Then Satan whispered to them, to reveal to them that which was hidden from them of their shameful parts. He said, 'Your Lord has only prohibited you from this tree lest you BECOME (thakuna-dual) ANGELS, or lest you become (thakuna-dual) IMMORTALS?
Does this statement look like to become another creature as angel OR to a position / status from same existing body to which is considered elite.. let me know..
Can you pls furnish me your understanding Mr. Kawaja.. I have heard many claiming that Angels are not Jins but separate creature..?
God bless us -
SLM jkhan,
first of all ,i love your explanations ( read alot of yours ) ... but i am not agree about this one with you ...
first of all
why are we created and for what purpose5156 And not I have created the jinn and the mankind except that they worship Me.
so Jinn and mankind is created to worship Allah, no Angels here .... their purpose is different.
in the surah of Al-Kahf ayaat 9 it says
1809 Or have you thought that the companions of the cave and the inscription were, among Our signs, a wonder?
companions , what are they ... only humans ?? no cause they had a dog with them
1818 And you would think them awake, while they were asleep. And We turned them to the right and to the left, while their dog stretched his forelegs at the entrance. If you had looked at them, you would have turned from them in flight and been filled by them with terror.
yet they called companions ....
(first) creatings forms
Human - clay 1526 And We did certainly create man out of clay from an altered black mud.
Jinn - fire ( smokless/scorching ) 1527 And the jinn We created before from scorching fire.
Angels - Light ( nur ) ..... i swear i thought they were created from light but there is no evidence from the Quran, only from hadiths ........ so ..hmmmm...
scrap this ) ...pls if someone can find it in the Quran pls show it to me ( about the creation of the angels)
freedom of choice
mankind and Jinns got privileged to chose their destiny , they could make their own choices, bad or good its up to them...
but angels do they ever go astray ??? could they or not , doesnt matter, cause they never did it .... ( sorry i could not find in the Quran with straight lines wherein it would said that the angels have no free will... )i am no native speaker arabic , so my source is from you guys , and internet ....
Insha Allah we will guide to the right path ...
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Yes Kaltun
You stated One of the mightiest things against Angels.. Let's hope that it is in unawareness and not intentional..what made you to think that Angels don't Ibada (serve /worship) or appload/admire and sanctify Their Creator.. Yes God created Jin and human to serve, sanctify and admire The Lord.. Angels are Highly ranked Jins they do much better than any human can do I presume... And they do tirelessly and with whole intention and purely... Their position is of being angel was an achievement by doing so.. But they are on their own will and not forced... No one is forced by Allah even the earth or heavens or sun or moon whatever of His creatures.. Nothing is forced to worship Him.. Dear everything is Serving Him even the animals and birds and trees all.. You name it.. Iblees became arrogant after being an angel just coz of a creation of human being..that shows all angels were doing everything on their own willing.. But iblees fallen.. Unfortunate fellow..
Just look below verses how Angels to worship..
2119 Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. And those who dwell in His presence are not too proud to worship (Ibada) Him, nor do they weary;
2120They glorify (Him) night and day; they flag not.
230 And when thy Lord said unto the angels Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? (wa'annahnu nusabbihu bihamdika, wanukaddisu laka) He said Surely I know that which ye know not
That's your misunderstanding.. Up to you..
What you wanted to say by giving verses regrading the companions (Ashab) of cave.. Whatever your intention is... But you said that Ashab includes dog and well.. No.. Not at all..
Dog was just there with them.. May be it is their dog.. But not part of As'hab.. There were two companions(group-As'habain) in the cave.. Which doesn't include dog... God doesn't want the dog to test time they stayed.. But two of those companions...Read below
1812 And afterward We raised them up that We might know which of the two parties (ahsabain - dual) would best calculate the time that they had tarried. -
SLM jkhan ,
thx for the reply ...
little bit confused now... i searched but i cant (could not ) find how the Angels created ??
indeed Allah created Jinns and Humans to worship Allah .. i thought angels are controllers or ( Allah fogive me ) somekind of robot, without own will do everything what Allah orders ( nothing wrong with it )but you showed me ( read so manytimes these things yet i see it now ) with ayats, they do indeed do worshipping Allah...
thx for the lesson, little bit confused now , but hey thats good, this way i can settle thing better away....
So angels are jinns so can humans also being angels ???
thx again
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Salam kaltun...
It's not only you but happens to many a believers.. We keep reading but we don't get the meaning though the meaning is in simple language.. That happens to me and hope happens to all.. But at some point we get it.. That's why God guides... Not by we reading it or we discussing it.. Guidance from God how much one convince another won't work out...
Okay.. You didn't explain why you gave the example of parties of cave?And to your last question human can become also Angels? No in my up to date understanding of Quran and I never found any supporting evidence to conclude it...
God created Jin and gave to whomever He will the status of Angels .. This could be long long time before the creation of Human... So out of the Jins.. only Creature of Jins were given that status... Further God says in the Janna men and Jin will be rewarded who are believers and who were put to test on this earth.. Strangely the highest position God refers to a human or Jin who are to be rewarded delights of Janna can achieve the status of Prophets or Siddiqun etc... But never said that God will reward the status of Angels... So if that's the highest positions then we can't yearn for anything other than that... We shouldn't be arrogant like iblees..
But master deceiver duped Adam saying that 720 "Your (dual) Lord didn't forbid you this tree save that you should become ANGELS or IMMORTALS"
We should follow the path of God and not the path who blocks it (Satan).. Satan deceives with fancy words and attractions with full of lies.. Satan knew human can never become The status of Angels, but Satan enticed Adam and his wife saying the above statement for which they were tricked...
But one thing kaltun.. We can't decide who is better (Angels or the status of prophets) that God knows.. And there is no need of such comparisons either.. That comparison only made the iblees to fall... Iblees is a good example for all good believers coz we can also fall in the same way being a good believer to the lower level coz of any ego issue in us .. Arrogance and ego is not worth for angels or believers.. That will destroy.. That's the quality of Satan... For example there can be a very good quality believer who never does a wrong intentionally and goes in line with Quran his whole life.. But one day another believer points at him one of the faults of him which he never perceived of before, but for that he became arrogant saying I know well what I am doing.. But the one who pointed is right according to Quran.. But he couldn't agree coz he was in one opinion.. He didn't want to accept and look the truth in its own but looked at the person and he went against the person and blinded with truth he presented.. Just example.. It can happen to any believers.. If it can happens to iblees it can happen to us... .. God didn't give iblees the status of Angel not coz he was mischievous always.. No iblees should have been a Good Jin to deserve it.. But failed on arrogance..
We can't become to certain positions even how much we do good, coz positions are given by God.. Coz we live and gonna live in extreme God's Kingdom...so the choice of positions for the kingdom is only from God... No one can argue how Jibreal became as Jibreal.. What he did to deserve it.. God is the decider.. Surrender to it..
God bless us... -
and he was an angel as per 20116, 234?
20116 ?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused.?
234 ?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused, and waxed proud, and so he became one of the unbelievers.?peace jkhan,
verses are talking about controllers(malaika) .. when God said to malaika lets have a breakup..
controller = gabriel/mikaeel (catagory = spirit)
controller= karmin kateebeen ( catagory = personal gaurds)
controller = rain controller / physical laws controllers etc .
controller = ibless ( catagory = jin ) PAST EVENT
controller = the one who travel with moses ( catagory = human )
controller = the one who bring the throne of queen in solomon times ( catagory = human) more powerful in knowledge and power than jinns yay yay yaybasically controller/malaika can be anyone appointed by God for roles.. (may be humans have lot of roles hereafter)
basically dnt get confuse with angels with wings for a second angel is interpretation of malaika.. and malaika is not any being malaika is status that provided to beings by God .. its up to God who he wana make controllers either he from jin or from humans or from spirits/character unknown to us like mikaeel...
so that evidence worth nothing .. (as per basic rules )
Can you pls furnish me your understanding Mr. Kawaja.. I have heard many claiming that Angels are not Jins but separate creature..?
God bless usangel is a weak translation of malaika..
and all creatures are just creatures ..malaika can be any creature that have ability to fullfill the mission/task appointed by creator..
just one thing in the end .. when i gave you verse .. it never say the nature of that malika was unknown .. but it clears to us he WAS of jinn.. because its illogical to use word malaika here as we already know he was one of the malaika whose nature was jin one of the free will creation ...
thats why other controllers were already aware about free will creation and they said to God why are you making another trouble maker when one is already there rotfl rotfl i mean jinss were created before humans..
some controllers are fixed like robots.. even if they have freewill their nature is not jinn or human .. (they are exempt from mistakes)
may b these controllers were once in a examination stage like us and now they are chilling same like we will be chilling if qualifed with good marks...
brother i m just sharing things with you and try to tell you in detail so that you can also input more insight in it..
God bless you..
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SLM jkhan,
first of all, i have not much knowledge about the whole Quran, i try to understand it ( come also from sunni world ) ... i ve been more than a year here reading the post ( and i love it ), here is so much information to gather , i know not everything here is the truth, but my eyes has been opened and can use my logic and mind ( I was really disappointed when this site went down for a week orso ) , first i didn't want to react to this post ( due lack of knowledge) but i am glad now that i did , i have whole different idea about jinns and angels now ...
Okay.. You didn't explain why you gave the example of parties of cave?
ooh you answered ) ... i meant the companions are/were not only humans but they had a dog with them and yet they are addressed as group of people , but this image about them is already changing , this means i have to research it again ...
Surah Ibrahim (1422)
And Satan will say when the matter has been concluded, "Indeed, Allah had promised you the promise of truth. And I promised you, but I betrayed you. But I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; but blame yourselves. I cannot be called to your aid, nor can you be called to my aid. Indeed, I deny your association of me before. Indeed, for the wrongdoers is a painful punishment."if the satan has no power over me then there is no (jinn) possession neither ??
and talking about jinns, are they really creatures from other dimension ??? i mean they adressed jinns as , creatures who are hidden , hidden like we cant see them...
Insha Allah we will guide to the right path ...
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Kawaja
Malak.. Translate to anything but they are malak.. Call it Angels / Guards / messengers. / warriors / destroyers /Controllers or whatever.. All these translations are based on the performances those malaika doing.. It doesn't matter.. If not in Arabic it should be given a kind of translation for people to understand.. For you evidences are baseless.. It's okay.. It's your understanding of Quran.. Based on QURAN Jins are Malak that's my understanding but not all.. For example if a man becomes a doctor and grow as a specialist and a famed/elite one, he won't lose his basic of being a human.. But if the same doctor make a massive violation to the entire doctors and if he is legally banned to perform as doctor then he is no more a doctor but just a human being.. But he won't lose his knowledge of medicine.. That's what happened to iblees in 1850.. Iblees didn't become Angel by cheating God but he deserved and satisfied God.. But God knows future and God knew iblees will fall apart.. positions are as long as you obey the rules with God...
Don't just opinine that there are some Malika who are like Robots... Bring proof for Robots..
4111 "Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."
God is just and the most just of all... As per above verse even to the One He creates, He said come willingly or unwillingly, but they both heaven and earth said we come willingly... That's so strange... In front of God everything has life and everything can feel it's creator be it stone or fire or moving Creatures... .. Or even Hell which speaks of our hands will speak...1315 " To God bow all who are in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, as do their shadows also in the mornings and the evenings."
383 "What, do they desire another religion/ system(deen) than God's, and to Him has surrendered whoso is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him they shall be returned?"
Look at the above two verses... Everything does willingly and unwillingly... Unwillingly is not by anymeans force or compulsion... Unwilling is kind of spontaneous approach but not with serious intent or with a kind of reluctance ... Did angels say to God they were forced to admire and sanctify and serve Him... No they were doing it with their willingness day and night tirelessly ... Did they Complain.. No.. But they told about themselves coz they are not those who qurell like Men..
If angels are put to work and serve God with compulsion or for thst matter even unwillingly or as Robots then it is a serious situation for those who hope to go Janna with all hard work here on the earth... Coz we may feel insecure... And the kingdom wouldn't be that safe, it may not have any difference to this life of the Earth... .. Coz there is much possibilities of characters like iblees to form.. So will that be a delight kingdom... Angels are highly reliable characters and they have been given task with trust... They are those who willingly pray for the humans and for believers and begging to God to save us from the hell fire..
Angels are forced or unwillingly or as robots means same as a government whose ministers are unpredictable coz the president has forced them...so citizens are in dilemma.. No... Angels are on their own and I most probably feel their hearts are cleaned as of our hearts will be pure once we enter the Janna coz we should have that clean heart to enjoy and live in Janna with the rest of the inhabitants of Janna peacefully... No more arrogance no more fighting nor more comparisons..
2169 We said, 'O fire, be coolness and safety for Abraham!
I brought this particular verse to indicate that fire is acting in its own will and perform it's task of burning...But as per the order of its Lord it changed its nature... God doesn't need to address O' Fire, this is a huge respect and justice God gives to His creatures as long as they obey.. Disobeying and still expecting the respect of The Lord is no way of possibilities..Derive proofs for saying that rest of the angels knew that iblees was a trouble maker... Angels knew only what they taught with.. Angels knew that human will shed blood coz God has taught about human and then only God asked them that He is gonna create them... Till the great feud took place we cannot deduce by any quran verses directly or indirectly that the Lower level Jins were trouble makers or shedding blood ... No idea they have even blood.. Do we?
And you cannot segregate the nature of Jins by saying this one is powerful that one is powerful... But in general Jim are mighty if they can reach to heaven and steal to listen trespassing all guards of angels... -
Kaltun....
We cannot say Satan has no power over us.. It depends on what you consider as the weapon of power.. If you think the strength of body and the things a body can perform is power then it's one thing.. But Satan has really power to dupe us.. Coz Satan sees us from a place where we cannot see... They have been waiting for our downfall and waiting to deceive us.. And waiting to take us to hell.. Isn't it power? But without God's will ,no.. True believers approaching to God and not the attractive trap of Satan...
God bless you with guidance -
Based on QURAN Jins are Malak that's my understanding but not all
based on Quran there was only one jinn who was malik
Malak.. Translate to anything but they are malak.. Call it Angels / Guards / messengers. / warriors / destroyers /Controllers or whatever.. All these translations are based on the performances those malaika doing.. It doesn't matter.. If not in Arabic it should be given a kind of translation for people to understand..
yeh very true thats what i m trying to tell you all that time..
malak could b any being .. nature of that being is not a issue
Don't just opinine that there are some Malika who are like Robots... Bring proof for Robots..
if you would've read whats in bracket = (they are exempt from mistakes) then i think most of the part is clear..
basically human and jinn are type of creation which is able to choose RIGHT and LEFT
some creatures i mean advance creature of God have not this abilty to choose RIGHT and LEFT ... (their pupose is to serve the command of God) in accurate way...evidence 1 . sun never absent always appear every single day...
evidence 2 water always react to gravity lock and travel downward.... cant go agaisnt the law of nature to go upward..
evidence 3 upon seeding the apple we always get apple tree as output not other way round... (or a tree never refuse to give apple).
evidence 4 our conscious/character always get secured upon our death we never see any character come back to earth by a mistake of controller...
evidece 5 evidence 6 evidence 7 so on.......human and jin... (abilty of of do and undo)
God say do this.. how many human do this and how many dont do this... let say 51/49 ratio look we have a natural fault of selecting options and not all that time we will select right options...
about these creatures they never fail to fullfill the commands given to them by their creator... get it boy
God bless you
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Kawaja...
Your numbered evidences made me laugh.. Pondering you are kidding or total blindness...
Dude the evidences Sun, water, Apple etc etc are entity of the Earth and Heavens. Read verse 4111 " "Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."
The Earth and Heavens were given the options of willingly or unwillingly but they themselves came willingly.. After coming willingly cannot betray God.. That's why God says sun moon etc are subjected for us...when God said subjected, doesn't mean compelled but it was with their willingness and it's their obedience to their Lord to serve as their Lord wanted showing complete humility .. They willingly doing everything till the day of judgement... Get it big boy??
God bless us with guidance .. -
So angels are jinns so can humans also being angels ???
Is this a deduction or are there ayats to support this?
Your Lord said to the angels, I will create a human being out of clay from an altered black mud.
Once I have fashioned him, and blew into him from My spirit, you shall prostrate to him.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees. He refused to be with the prostrators.Apparently when the command was given Iblees was an angel.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees
Ex. "all the students passed the course except Sultan".The Quran is easy to understand in and of itself, therefore I must be
careful not to conflate the knowledge from Quran with my previous
biases, culture and ego.Ex. the Quran does not say angels are made of light!
Obviously if Iblees "chose" not to prostrate, and was an angel therefore
the angels have or had free will! yes & -
Kawaja...
Your numbered evidences made me laugh.. Pondering you are kidding or total blindness...
Dude the evidences Sun, water, Apple etc etc are entity of the Earth and Heavens. Read verse 4111 " "Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."yeh its very obvious that you can laugh on things when you dnt even have clue whats going on ..
this thing is more funny that creator of heavens and earth is requesting from smoke to come willingly or unnwillingly ? joke of the century ....
logical real creator is always in full control..
he lifted himself to heavens ? (thats brilliant) becoz before that i was thinking real logical creator must exist in everywhere ...
he lifted himslef up... ( with the help of rocket) hahahahahaha
common boy... rotfl
ok coming back to my thing... who is providing energy fuel to sun ?
who is bringing apple out of seed ?
who is taking your lives when we died?is there is any controlling bodies in all of it what we say.. helium, soil, water, keeper of death etc...
who are these controlling powers ,
my evidences are easy to observe but deep to think when you start thinking about the process of creation ...
when u read all plantery system you will notice all that time its was a task of controllers , not that God himself was putting foundation of earth by hard labour having a hammer like THOR and then he lifted himself up hahahaha...my cute/cool boy my only advice is dnt treat God as human then you will learn a lot about true real creator and its laws and signs..
God bless you
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Apparently when the command was given Iblees was an angel.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees
Ex. "all the students passed the course except Sultan".peace brother,
just wana let you know this is also a part of QURAN what actually required here..
1850 When We said to the controllers "Submit to Adam." They all submitted except for ibless, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord.
in this verse big points..
ibless was controller
he refused the command
becoz he was jin..the creation who can refuse the command = jin+human till date... thats y... he refused.. all other controllers are the creation who even having free will cant go against the God but can put their case in debate manner when they ask why you are making a creation? , then God proved them something ... thats how we see things...
Ex. the Quran does not say angels are made of light!
very true i agree ,
thats why when people believe the nature of ALL (types) malaika as light things contradict with eachother.... let say the malaika who is responsible for giving us sun light got a nature of light.. same like other malaika .. hint is already there when gabriel considered as spirit as per quran..
Obviously if Iblees "chose" not to prostrate, and was an angel therefore
the angels have or had free will! yes &yes exactly controlling bodies have freewill but only human and jinn can go against command of God by using that freewill.. other creation dnt have this ability to using their freewill for going against the command of lord...
sometimes i think what actually a freewill is ?
FOR traditional people
angel = creation of light
hence things get confuse when people consider that his nature was light then his nature become fire..(very unscientific)becoz God did not said ibless was made up from light then we turn him into fire..on the other hand verse is saying he WAS of jinn he was always fireeee
al that time they did not notice its about the STATUS not about nature..
there are creations from dust,oil,light,water,fire,air God gona select who will be the controlling body in all of his creation..
who he can promote to controllers..obviously becoz all that time they think about "material" from which they conclude the nature..
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many times they asked me the question about when a child dies or baby, what happens to them? go they to Heaven ?? or what ...
my answers were always , first place Allah decides this , but if i use my logic they would be angels .... but then its contradict my beleave cause i thought angels were made of light , and human not...
but when i see this ( still not found how the angels made in the Quran) , this is logical, being an angel is an status , higher status then normal ... you have to earn it ... so i think jinns and humans can be an angel .....
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No... No Kaltun.. There is no verse or proof by which we can deduce that human can become the status of angels..
Prophets is a status chosen and given by God... I don't think any human can achieve a status above being a prophet.. But in Janna though we were not that fortunate in earth to become as Prophet but with the grace of God we can be in the company of those elite prophets... That's great mercy of God.. If you understood verse 469 precisely you won't go wrong.. We human are are not destined for the status of angels..
Just coz babies die or unconcious man born or disabled such blind people etc are born and live and dies they will become angels.. How to deduce dear.. God will question every single individual regardless of babies or whatever.. If babies or others are exempted why God destroys men and women and children from a disasters like tsunamis etc.. If you read Quran in depth knowledge you will find that God never destroyed any single believing man through His devastation but saved. Don't you get by the statement Ibrahim said to angels in it is Lut.. Angels said we know well who lives there.. Stories of many prophets are mentioned in Quran in which we always notice God saves believers and destroys regardless of men or women or children and called them that they are doomed..
Okay look at the One Moses went in search of knowledge... He killed a boy.. And Moses started talking according to his knowledge and precisely with what would have been revealed to him as guidance saying " ... how you kill an innocent person who is not even killed another... "
Now whoever this person is be it an angel Messenger or a human being.. He killed a boy and Moses didn't like it initially but Moses changed his mind and still went with him... Thing is, will this dead boy become an angel? How he said in his interpretation he will become a oppressor against belief and will be a barricade to his believing parents.. Child or the boy in the end didn't grow to his manhood but he died as a boy.. So how to claim that this innocent boy to become oppressor against his parents. He will Never.. And we humans are sent to this world to get tested by God.. But this boy was not tested till he reaches to the status he will become an oppressor .... even before actually it happens he was killed... So, you consider this child deserves something in the jannah... God doesn't necessarily need to make everyone life longer to get tested... God knows what the soul is.. Our souls are not new... We are old.. We have given a kind pledge to God saying You are our Lord 7172...
Same God is not unfair.. If He is not unfair for things which we feel unfair may not be actually not.. God destroyed the nation of Noah and only saved the very limited... Do you think Noah brought all the kids and infants to the ship...or people Lut.. Do you think Lut carried all the babies of those disgusting Men from the disaster .. But they were doomed.. What even Noah said... If you let them anymore my Lord they will only beget disbelievers... What people beget.. Babies...
So Kaltun.. Don't decide human can become angels... Proof is the weapon...bring proof and talk.. Emotions won't become proofs... Only God chosen Jins are given the status of Malaika angels... Not human.. No proof for that...
God bless us.. -
Peace jkhan.
You say quote
Only God chosen Jins are given the status of Malaika angels...And where is your evidence for this?
GOD nless you.
Peace