Nature of Satan
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Salam kaltun...
It's not only you but happens to many a believers.. We keep reading but we don't get the meaning though the meaning is in simple language.. That happens to me and hope happens to all.. But at some point we get it.. That's why God guides... Not by we reading it or we discussing it.. Guidance from God how much one convince another won't work out...
Okay.. You didn't explain why you gave the example of parties of cave?And to your last question human can become also Angels? No in my up to date understanding of Quran and I never found any supporting evidence to conclude it...
God created Jin and gave to whomever He will the status of Angels .. This could be long long time before the creation of Human... So out of the Jins.. only Creature of Jins were given that status... Further God says in the Janna men and Jin will be rewarded who are believers and who were put to test on this earth.. Strangely the highest position God refers to a human or Jin who are to be rewarded delights of Janna can achieve the status of Prophets or Siddiqun etc... But never said that God will reward the status of Angels... So if that's the highest positions then we can't yearn for anything other than that... We shouldn't be arrogant like iblees..
But master deceiver duped Adam saying that 720 "Your (dual) Lord didn't forbid you this tree save that you should become ANGELS or IMMORTALS"
We should follow the path of God and not the path who blocks it (Satan).. Satan deceives with fancy words and attractions with full of lies.. Satan knew human can never become The status of Angels, but Satan enticed Adam and his wife saying the above statement for which they were tricked...
But one thing kaltun.. We can't decide who is better (Angels or the status of prophets) that God knows.. And there is no need of such comparisons either.. That comparison only made the iblees to fall... Iblees is a good example for all good believers coz we can also fall in the same way being a good believer to the lower level coz of any ego issue in us .. Arrogance and ego is not worth for angels or believers.. That will destroy.. That's the quality of Satan... For example there can be a very good quality believer who never does a wrong intentionally and goes in line with Quran his whole life.. But one day another believer points at him one of the faults of him which he never perceived of before, but for that he became arrogant saying I know well what I am doing.. But the one who pointed is right according to Quran.. But he couldn't agree coz he was in one opinion.. He didn't want to accept and look the truth in its own but looked at the person and he went against the person and blinded with truth he presented.. Just example.. It can happen to any believers.. If it can happens to iblees it can happen to us... .. God didn't give iblees the status of Angel not coz he was mischievous always.. No iblees should have been a Good Jin to deserve it.. But failed on arrogance..
We can't become to certain positions even how much we do good, coz positions are given by God.. Coz we live and gonna live in extreme God's Kingdom...so the choice of positions for the kingdom is only from God... No one can argue how Jibreal became as Jibreal.. What he did to deserve it.. God is the decider.. Surrender to it..
God bless us... -
and he was an angel as per 20116, 234?
20116 ?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused.?
234 ?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused, and waxed proud, and so he became one of the unbelievers.?peace jkhan,
verses are talking about controllers(malaika) .. when God said to malaika lets have a breakup..
controller = gabriel/mikaeel (catagory = spirit)
controller= karmin kateebeen ( catagory = personal gaurds)
controller = rain controller / physical laws controllers etc .
controller = ibless ( catagory = jin ) PAST EVENT
controller = the one who travel with moses ( catagory = human )
controller = the one who bring the throne of queen in solomon times ( catagory = human) more powerful in knowledge and power than jinns yay yay yaybasically controller/malaika can be anyone appointed by God for roles.. (may be humans have lot of roles hereafter)
basically dnt get confuse with angels with wings for a second angel is interpretation of malaika.. and malaika is not any being malaika is status that provided to beings by God .. its up to God who he wana make controllers either he from jin or from humans or from spirits/character unknown to us like mikaeel...
so that evidence worth nothing .. (as per basic rules )
Can you pls furnish me your understanding Mr. Kawaja.. I have heard many claiming that Angels are not Jins but separate creature..?
God bless usangel is a weak translation of malaika..
and all creatures are just creatures ..malaika can be any creature that have ability to fullfill the mission/task appointed by creator..
just one thing in the end .. when i gave you verse .. it never say the nature of that malika was unknown .. but it clears to us he WAS of jinn.. because its illogical to use word malaika here as we already know he was one of the malaika whose nature was jin one of the free will creation ...
thats why other controllers were already aware about free will creation and they said to God why are you making another trouble maker when one is already there rotfl rotfl i mean jinss were created before humans..
some controllers are fixed like robots.. even if they have freewill their nature is not jinn or human .. (they are exempt from mistakes)
may b these controllers were once in a examination stage like us and now they are chilling same like we will be chilling if qualifed with good marks...
brother i m just sharing things with you and try to tell you in detail so that you can also input more insight in it..
God bless you..
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SLM jkhan,
first of all, i have not much knowledge about the whole Quran, i try to understand it ( come also from sunni world ) ... i ve been more than a year here reading the post ( and i love it ), here is so much information to gather , i know not everything here is the truth, but my eyes has been opened and can use my logic and mind ( I was really disappointed when this site went down for a week orso ) , first i didn't want to react to this post ( due lack of knowledge) but i am glad now that i did , i have whole different idea about jinns and angels now ...
Okay.. You didn't explain why you gave the example of parties of cave?
ooh you answered ) ... i meant the companions are/were not only humans but they had a dog with them and yet they are addressed as group of people , but this image about them is already changing , this means i have to research it again ...
Surah Ibrahim (1422)
And Satan will say when the matter has been concluded, "Indeed, Allah had promised you the promise of truth. And I promised you, but I betrayed you. But I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; but blame yourselves. I cannot be called to your aid, nor can you be called to my aid. Indeed, I deny your association of me before. Indeed, for the wrongdoers is a painful punishment."if the satan has no power over me then there is no (jinn) possession neither ??
and talking about jinns, are they really creatures from other dimension ??? i mean they adressed jinns as , creatures who are hidden , hidden like we cant see them...
Insha Allah we will guide to the right path ...
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Kawaja
Malak.. Translate to anything but they are malak.. Call it Angels / Guards / messengers. / warriors / destroyers /Controllers or whatever.. All these translations are based on the performances those malaika doing.. It doesn't matter.. If not in Arabic it should be given a kind of translation for people to understand.. For you evidences are baseless.. It's okay.. It's your understanding of Quran.. Based on QURAN Jins are Malak that's my understanding but not all.. For example if a man becomes a doctor and grow as a specialist and a famed/elite one, he won't lose his basic of being a human.. But if the same doctor make a massive violation to the entire doctors and if he is legally banned to perform as doctor then he is no more a doctor but just a human being.. But he won't lose his knowledge of medicine.. That's what happened to iblees in 1850.. Iblees didn't become Angel by cheating God but he deserved and satisfied God.. But God knows future and God knew iblees will fall apart.. positions are as long as you obey the rules with God...
Don't just opinine that there are some Malika who are like Robots... Bring proof for Robots..
4111 "Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."
God is just and the most just of all... As per above verse even to the One He creates, He said come willingly or unwillingly, but they both heaven and earth said we come willingly... That's so strange... In front of God everything has life and everything can feel it's creator be it stone or fire or moving Creatures... .. Or even Hell which speaks of our hands will speak...1315 " To God bow all who are in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, as do their shadows also in the mornings and the evenings."
383 "What, do they desire another religion/ system(deen) than God's, and to Him has surrendered whoso is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him they shall be returned?"
Look at the above two verses... Everything does willingly and unwillingly... Unwillingly is not by anymeans force or compulsion... Unwilling is kind of spontaneous approach but not with serious intent or with a kind of reluctance ... Did angels say to God they were forced to admire and sanctify and serve Him... No they were doing it with their willingness day and night tirelessly ... Did they Complain.. No.. But they told about themselves coz they are not those who qurell like Men..
If angels are put to work and serve God with compulsion or for thst matter even unwillingly or as Robots then it is a serious situation for those who hope to go Janna with all hard work here on the earth... Coz we may feel insecure... And the kingdom wouldn't be that safe, it may not have any difference to this life of the Earth... .. Coz there is much possibilities of characters like iblees to form.. So will that be a delight kingdom... Angels are highly reliable characters and they have been given task with trust... They are those who willingly pray for the humans and for believers and begging to God to save us from the hell fire..
Angels are forced or unwillingly or as robots means same as a government whose ministers are unpredictable coz the president has forced them...so citizens are in dilemma.. No... Angels are on their own and I most probably feel their hearts are cleaned as of our hearts will be pure once we enter the Janna coz we should have that clean heart to enjoy and live in Janna with the rest of the inhabitants of Janna peacefully... No more arrogance no more fighting nor more comparisons..
2169 We said, 'O fire, be coolness and safety for Abraham!
I brought this particular verse to indicate that fire is acting in its own will and perform it's task of burning...But as per the order of its Lord it changed its nature... God doesn't need to address O' Fire, this is a huge respect and justice God gives to His creatures as long as they obey.. Disobeying and still expecting the respect of The Lord is no way of possibilities..Derive proofs for saying that rest of the angels knew that iblees was a trouble maker... Angels knew only what they taught with.. Angels knew that human will shed blood coz God has taught about human and then only God asked them that He is gonna create them... Till the great feud took place we cannot deduce by any quran verses directly or indirectly that the Lower level Jins were trouble makers or shedding blood ... No idea they have even blood.. Do we?
And you cannot segregate the nature of Jins by saying this one is powerful that one is powerful... But in general Jim are mighty if they can reach to heaven and steal to listen trespassing all guards of angels... -
Kaltun....
We cannot say Satan has no power over us.. It depends on what you consider as the weapon of power.. If you think the strength of body and the things a body can perform is power then it's one thing.. But Satan has really power to dupe us.. Coz Satan sees us from a place where we cannot see... They have been waiting for our downfall and waiting to deceive us.. And waiting to take us to hell.. Isn't it power? But without God's will ,no.. True believers approaching to God and not the attractive trap of Satan...
God bless you with guidance -
Based on QURAN Jins are Malak that's my understanding but not all
based on Quran there was only one jinn who was malik
Malak.. Translate to anything but they are malak.. Call it Angels / Guards / messengers. / warriors / destroyers /Controllers or whatever.. All these translations are based on the performances those malaika doing.. It doesn't matter.. If not in Arabic it should be given a kind of translation for people to understand..
yeh very true thats what i m trying to tell you all that time..
malak could b any being .. nature of that being is not a issue
Don't just opinine that there are some Malika who are like Robots... Bring proof for Robots..
if you would've read whats in bracket = (they are exempt from mistakes) then i think most of the part is clear..
basically human and jinn are type of creation which is able to choose RIGHT and LEFT
some creatures i mean advance creature of God have not this abilty to choose RIGHT and LEFT ... (their pupose is to serve the command of God) in accurate way...evidence 1 . sun never absent always appear every single day...
evidence 2 water always react to gravity lock and travel downward.... cant go agaisnt the law of nature to go upward..
evidence 3 upon seeding the apple we always get apple tree as output not other way round... (or a tree never refuse to give apple).
evidence 4 our conscious/character always get secured upon our death we never see any character come back to earth by a mistake of controller...
evidece 5 evidence 6 evidence 7 so on.......human and jin... (abilty of of do and undo)
God say do this.. how many human do this and how many dont do this... let say 51/49 ratio look we have a natural fault of selecting options and not all that time we will select right options...
about these creatures they never fail to fullfill the commands given to them by their creator... get it boy
God bless you
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Kawaja...
Your numbered evidences made me laugh.. Pondering you are kidding or total blindness...
Dude the evidences Sun, water, Apple etc etc are entity of the Earth and Heavens. Read verse 4111 " "Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."
The Earth and Heavens were given the options of willingly or unwillingly but they themselves came willingly.. After coming willingly cannot betray God.. That's why God says sun moon etc are subjected for us...when God said subjected, doesn't mean compelled but it was with their willingness and it's their obedience to their Lord to serve as their Lord wanted showing complete humility .. They willingly doing everything till the day of judgement... Get it big boy??
God bless us with guidance .. -
So angels are jinns so can humans also being angels ???
Is this a deduction or are there ayats to support this?
Your Lord said to the angels, I will create a human being out of clay from an altered black mud.
Once I have fashioned him, and blew into him from My spirit, you shall prostrate to him.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees. He refused to be with the prostrators.Apparently when the command was given Iblees was an angel.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees
Ex. "all the students passed the course except Sultan".The Quran is easy to understand in and of itself, therefore I must be
careful not to conflate the knowledge from Quran with my previous
biases, culture and ego.Ex. the Quran does not say angels are made of light!
Obviously if Iblees "chose" not to prostrate, and was an angel therefore
the angels have or had free will! yes & -
Kawaja...
Your numbered evidences made me laugh.. Pondering you are kidding or total blindness...
Dude the evidences Sun, water, Apple etc etc are entity of the Earth and Heavens. Read verse 4111 " "Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."yeh its very obvious that you can laugh on things when you dnt even have clue whats going on ..
this thing is more funny that creator of heavens and earth is requesting from smoke to come willingly or unnwillingly ? joke of the century ....
logical real creator is always in full control..
he lifted himself to heavens ? (thats brilliant) becoz before that i was thinking real logical creator must exist in everywhere ...
he lifted himslef up... ( with the help of rocket) hahahahahaha
common boy... rotfl
ok coming back to my thing... who is providing energy fuel to sun ?
who is bringing apple out of seed ?
who is taking your lives when we died?is there is any controlling bodies in all of it what we say.. helium, soil, water, keeper of death etc...
who are these controlling powers ,
my evidences are easy to observe but deep to think when you start thinking about the process of creation ...
when u read all plantery system you will notice all that time its was a task of controllers , not that God himself was putting foundation of earth by hard labour having a hammer like THOR and then he lifted himself up hahahaha...my cute/cool boy my only advice is dnt treat God as human then you will learn a lot about true real creator and its laws and signs..
God bless you
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Apparently when the command was given Iblees was an angel.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees
Ex. "all the students passed the course except Sultan".peace brother,
just wana let you know this is also a part of QURAN what actually required here..
1850 When We said to the controllers "Submit to Adam." They all submitted except for ibless, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord.
in this verse big points..
ibless was controller
he refused the command
becoz he was jin..the creation who can refuse the command = jin+human till date... thats y... he refused.. all other controllers are the creation who even having free will cant go against the God but can put their case in debate manner when they ask why you are making a creation? , then God proved them something ... thats how we see things...
Ex. the Quran does not say angels are made of light!
very true i agree ,
thats why when people believe the nature of ALL (types) malaika as light things contradict with eachother.... let say the malaika who is responsible for giving us sun light got a nature of light.. same like other malaika .. hint is already there when gabriel considered as spirit as per quran..
Obviously if Iblees "chose" not to prostrate, and was an angel therefore
the angels have or had free will! yes &yes exactly controlling bodies have freewill but only human and jinn can go against command of God by using that freewill.. other creation dnt have this ability to using their freewill for going against the command of lord...
sometimes i think what actually a freewill is ?
FOR traditional people
angel = creation of light
hence things get confuse when people consider that his nature was light then his nature become fire..(very unscientific)becoz God did not said ibless was made up from light then we turn him into fire..on the other hand verse is saying he WAS of jinn he was always fireeee
al that time they did not notice its about the STATUS not about nature..
there are creations from dust,oil,light,water,fire,air God gona select who will be the controlling body in all of his creation..
who he can promote to controllers..obviously becoz all that time they think about "material" from which they conclude the nature..
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many times they asked me the question about when a child dies or baby, what happens to them? go they to Heaven ?? or what ...
my answers were always , first place Allah decides this , but if i use my logic they would be angels .... but then its contradict my beleave cause i thought angels were made of light , and human not...
but when i see this ( still not found how the angels made in the Quran) , this is logical, being an angel is an status , higher status then normal ... you have to earn it ... so i think jinns and humans can be an angel .....
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No... No Kaltun.. There is no verse or proof by which we can deduce that human can become the status of angels..
Prophets is a status chosen and given by God... I don't think any human can achieve a status above being a prophet.. But in Janna though we were not that fortunate in earth to become as Prophet but with the grace of God we can be in the company of those elite prophets... That's great mercy of God.. If you understood verse 469 precisely you won't go wrong.. We human are are not destined for the status of angels..
Just coz babies die or unconcious man born or disabled such blind people etc are born and live and dies they will become angels.. How to deduce dear.. God will question every single individual regardless of babies or whatever.. If babies or others are exempted why God destroys men and women and children from a disasters like tsunamis etc.. If you read Quran in depth knowledge you will find that God never destroyed any single believing man through His devastation but saved. Don't you get by the statement Ibrahim said to angels in it is Lut.. Angels said we know well who lives there.. Stories of many prophets are mentioned in Quran in which we always notice God saves believers and destroys regardless of men or women or children and called them that they are doomed..
Okay look at the One Moses went in search of knowledge... He killed a boy.. And Moses started talking according to his knowledge and precisely with what would have been revealed to him as guidance saying " ... how you kill an innocent person who is not even killed another... "
Now whoever this person is be it an angel Messenger or a human being.. He killed a boy and Moses didn't like it initially but Moses changed his mind and still went with him... Thing is, will this dead boy become an angel? How he said in his interpretation he will become a oppressor against belief and will be a barricade to his believing parents.. Child or the boy in the end didn't grow to his manhood but he died as a boy.. So how to claim that this innocent boy to become oppressor against his parents. He will Never.. And we humans are sent to this world to get tested by God.. But this boy was not tested till he reaches to the status he will become an oppressor .... even before actually it happens he was killed... So, you consider this child deserves something in the jannah... God doesn't necessarily need to make everyone life longer to get tested... God knows what the soul is.. Our souls are not new... We are old.. We have given a kind pledge to God saying You are our Lord 7172...
Same God is not unfair.. If He is not unfair for things which we feel unfair may not be actually not.. God destroyed the nation of Noah and only saved the very limited... Do you think Noah brought all the kids and infants to the ship...or people Lut.. Do you think Lut carried all the babies of those disgusting Men from the disaster .. But they were doomed.. What even Noah said... If you let them anymore my Lord they will only beget disbelievers... What people beget.. Babies...
So Kaltun.. Don't decide human can become angels... Proof is the weapon...bring proof and talk.. Emotions won't become proofs... Only God chosen Jins are given the status of Malaika angels... Not human.. No proof for that...
God bless us.. -
Peace jkhan.
You say quote
Only God chosen Jins are given the status of Malaika angels...And where is your evidence for this?
GOD nless you.
Peace -
@ jk khan,
what is the nature of ANGELS according to you from QURAN..?
what your intake about gabriel/mikaeel? who are they?
what do you think about the "abd" who was with moses in his travel? who was he?
what is the nature of human and jinn accoridng to quran?be precise please.. or just share verses..
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many times they asked me the question about when a child dies or baby, what happens to them? go they to Heaven ?? or what ...
my answers were always , first place Allah decides this , but if i use my logic they would be angels .... but then its contradict my beleave cause i thought angels were made of light , and human not...
but when i see this ( still not found how the angels made in the Quran) , this is logical, being an angel is an status , higher status then normal ... you have to earn it ... so i think jinns and humans can be an angel .....
peace bravo
truth of creation is far more what a human mind can imagine... but i like the way you think you are exactly thinking the correct logical way how everyone should do , i agree with you
God bless you
about your kids part, i just remember something about the claims of so called muslims about the kids of non muslims who died in their infacy will b serving the so called muslims in heavens , like slaves hahahahaha
racism and slavery is still in theri mind they want the paradise of god tunred in to empire that rely on slaves hahaha
just that they born in non muslims ,, make their status already low in their sick minds..
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Peace jkhan.
Be specific about Jinns becoming Malaika, cite Qoran evidence please. I have not seen you quote any verse for this?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Jinn, like shayaatin do not denote a particular kind of beings but a characteristic of some beings who may be of different kinds.
Jinn, from same root as janna, are beings that are "covered" unseen under the ouward appearance we are able to grasp.
Sam as shayaatin. They are not a particular kind of beings. They are beings that "burn", independently of their individual nature.
Salaam
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Peace jkhan.
Be specific about Jinns becoming Malaika, cite Qoran evidence please. I have not seen you quote any verse for this?
GOD bless you.
Peace.SLM ,
how about this verse
351
praise is to Allah, Creator of the heavens and the earth, made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.is there difference between made and being created ?
or 720 ( i think) this is why they could deceived by the Shaytaan...
Then whispered to both of them the Shaitaan to make apparent to both of them what was concealed from both of them of their shame. And he said, "(Did) not forbid you both your Lord from this tree except that you two become Angels or you two become of the immortals."
if being an Angel is an status , you can become one, but if Angels were created then you cant became one ....
1850
And when We said to the Angels, "Prostrate to Adam," so they prostrated except Iblis. (He) was of the jinn, and he rebelled against the Command (of) his Lord. Will you then take him and his offspring (as) protectors other than Me, while they (are) to you enemies? Wretched for the wrongdoers (is) the exchange.like Iblis he was from the Jinn
May Allah guide us to straight path
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351
praise is to Allah, Creator of the heavens and the earth, made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.] is active participle so it does not mean "made" but "maker".
1588
Pickthall 1588 Strain not thine eyes toward that which We cause some wedded pairs among them to enjoy, and be not grieved on their account, and lower thy wing (in tenderness) for the believers.
So if "janaha" means wing then as per Pickthall our prophet had wings too. Can we trust traditional translations?