Nature of Satan
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So angels are jinns so can humans also being angels ???
Is this a deduction or are there ayats to support this?
Your Lord said to the angels, I will create a human being out of clay from an altered black mud.
Once I have fashioned him, and blew into him from My spirit, you shall prostrate to him.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees. He refused to be with the prostrators.Apparently when the command was given Iblees was an angel.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees
Ex. "all the students passed the course except Sultan".The Quran is easy to understand in and of itself, therefore I must be
careful not to conflate the knowledge from Quran with my previous
biases, culture and ego.Ex. the Quran does not say angels are made of light!
Obviously if Iblees "chose" not to prostrate, and was an angel therefore
the angels have or had free will! yes & -
Kawaja...
Your numbered evidences made me laugh.. Pondering you are kidding or total blindness...
Dude the evidences Sun, water, Apple etc etc are entity of the Earth and Heavens. Read verse 4111 " "Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."yeh its very obvious that you can laugh on things when you dnt even have clue whats going on ..
this thing is more funny that creator of heavens and earth is requesting from smoke to come willingly or unnwillingly ? joke of the century ....
logical real creator is always in full control..
he lifted himself to heavens ? (thats brilliant) becoz before that i was thinking real logical creator must exist in everywhere ...
he lifted himslef up... ( with the help of rocket) hahahahahaha
common boy... rotfl
ok coming back to my thing... who is providing energy fuel to sun ?
who is bringing apple out of seed ?
who is taking your lives when we died?is there is any controlling bodies in all of it what we say.. helium, soil, water, keeper of death etc...
who are these controlling powers ,
my evidences are easy to observe but deep to think when you start thinking about the process of creation ...
when u read all plantery system you will notice all that time its was a task of controllers , not that God himself was putting foundation of earth by hard labour having a hammer like THOR and then he lifted himself up hahahaha...my cute/cool boy my only advice is dnt treat God as human then you will learn a lot about true real creator and its laws and signs..
God bless you
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Apparently when the command was given Iblees was an angel.
So all the angels prostrated, every one of them.
except Iblees
Ex. "all the students passed the course except Sultan".peace brother,
just wana let you know this is also a part of QURAN what actually required here..
1850 When We said to the controllers "Submit to Adam." They all submitted except for ibless, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord.
in this verse big points..
ibless was controller
he refused the command
becoz he was jin..the creation who can refuse the command = jin+human till date... thats y... he refused.. all other controllers are the creation who even having free will cant go against the God but can put their case in debate manner when they ask why you are making a creation? , then God proved them something ... thats how we see things...
Ex. the Quran does not say angels are made of light!
very true i agree ,
thats why when people believe the nature of ALL (types) malaika as light things contradict with eachother.... let say the malaika who is responsible for giving us sun light got a nature of light.. same like other malaika .. hint is already there when gabriel considered as spirit as per quran..
Obviously if Iblees "chose" not to prostrate, and was an angel therefore
the angels have or had free will! yes &yes exactly controlling bodies have freewill but only human and jinn can go against command of God by using that freewill.. other creation dnt have this ability to using their freewill for going against the command of lord...
sometimes i think what actually a freewill is ?
FOR traditional people
angel = creation of light
hence things get confuse when people consider that his nature was light then his nature become fire..(very unscientific)becoz God did not said ibless was made up from light then we turn him into fire..on the other hand verse is saying he WAS of jinn he was always fireeee
al that time they did not notice its about the STATUS not about nature..
there are creations from dust,oil,light,water,fire,air God gona select who will be the controlling body in all of his creation..
who he can promote to controllers..obviously becoz all that time they think about "material" from which they conclude the nature..
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many times they asked me the question about when a child dies or baby, what happens to them? go they to Heaven ?? or what ...
my answers were always , first place Allah decides this , but if i use my logic they would be angels .... but then its contradict my beleave cause i thought angels were made of light , and human not...
but when i see this ( still not found how the angels made in the Quran) , this is logical, being an angel is an status , higher status then normal ... you have to earn it ... so i think jinns and humans can be an angel .....
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No... No Kaltun.. There is no verse or proof by which we can deduce that human can become the status of angels..
Prophets is a status chosen and given by God... I don't think any human can achieve a status above being a prophet.. But in Janna though we were not that fortunate in earth to become as Prophet but with the grace of God we can be in the company of those elite prophets... That's great mercy of God.. If you understood verse 469 precisely you won't go wrong.. We human are are not destined for the status of angels..
Just coz babies die or unconcious man born or disabled such blind people etc are born and live and dies they will become angels.. How to deduce dear.. God will question every single individual regardless of babies or whatever.. If babies or others are exempted why God destroys men and women and children from a disasters like tsunamis etc.. If you read Quran in depth knowledge you will find that God never destroyed any single believing man through His devastation but saved. Don't you get by the statement Ibrahim said to angels in it is Lut.. Angels said we know well who lives there.. Stories of many prophets are mentioned in Quran in which we always notice God saves believers and destroys regardless of men or women or children and called them that they are doomed..
Okay look at the One Moses went in search of knowledge... He killed a boy.. And Moses started talking according to his knowledge and precisely with what would have been revealed to him as guidance saying " ... how you kill an innocent person who is not even killed another... "
Now whoever this person is be it an angel Messenger or a human being.. He killed a boy and Moses didn't like it initially but Moses changed his mind and still went with him... Thing is, will this dead boy become an angel? How he said in his interpretation he will become a oppressor against belief and will be a barricade to his believing parents.. Child or the boy in the end didn't grow to his manhood but he died as a boy.. So how to claim that this innocent boy to become oppressor against his parents. He will Never.. And we humans are sent to this world to get tested by God.. But this boy was not tested till he reaches to the status he will become an oppressor .... even before actually it happens he was killed... So, you consider this child deserves something in the jannah... God doesn't necessarily need to make everyone life longer to get tested... God knows what the soul is.. Our souls are not new... We are old.. We have given a kind pledge to God saying You are our Lord 7172...
Same God is not unfair.. If He is not unfair for things which we feel unfair may not be actually not.. God destroyed the nation of Noah and only saved the very limited... Do you think Noah brought all the kids and infants to the ship...or people Lut.. Do you think Lut carried all the babies of those disgusting Men from the disaster .. But they were doomed.. What even Noah said... If you let them anymore my Lord they will only beget disbelievers... What people beget.. Babies...
So Kaltun.. Don't decide human can become angels... Proof is the weapon...bring proof and talk.. Emotions won't become proofs... Only God chosen Jins are given the status of Malaika angels... Not human.. No proof for that...
God bless us.. -
Peace jkhan.
You say quote
Only God chosen Jins are given the status of Malaika angels...And where is your evidence for this?
GOD nless you.
Peace -
@ jk khan,
what is the nature of ANGELS according to you from QURAN..?
what your intake about gabriel/mikaeel? who are they?
what do you think about the "abd" who was with moses in his travel? who was he?
what is the nature of human and jinn accoridng to quran?be precise please.. or just share verses..
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many times they asked me the question about when a child dies or baby, what happens to them? go they to Heaven ?? or what ...
my answers were always , first place Allah decides this , but if i use my logic they would be angels .... but then its contradict my beleave cause i thought angels were made of light , and human not...
but when i see this ( still not found how the angels made in the Quran) , this is logical, being an angel is an status , higher status then normal ... you have to earn it ... so i think jinns and humans can be an angel .....
peace bravo
truth of creation is far more what a human mind can imagine... but i like the way you think you are exactly thinking the correct logical way how everyone should do , i agree with you
God bless you
about your kids part, i just remember something about the claims of so called muslims about the kids of non muslims who died in their infacy will b serving the so called muslims in heavens , like slaves hahahahaha
racism and slavery is still in theri mind they want the paradise of god tunred in to empire that rely on slaves hahaha
just that they born in non muslims ,, make their status already low in their sick minds..
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Peace jkhan.
Be specific about Jinns becoming Malaika, cite Qoran evidence please. I have not seen you quote any verse for this?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Jinn, like shayaatin do not denote a particular kind of beings but a characteristic of some beings who may be of different kinds.
Jinn, from same root as janna, are beings that are "covered" unseen under the ouward appearance we are able to grasp.
Sam as shayaatin. They are not a particular kind of beings. They are beings that "burn", independently of their individual nature.
Salaam
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Peace jkhan.
Be specific about Jinns becoming Malaika, cite Qoran evidence please. I have not seen you quote any verse for this?
GOD bless you.
Peace.SLM ,
how about this verse
351
praise is to Allah, Creator of the heavens and the earth, made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.is there difference between made and being created ?
or 720 ( i think) this is why they could deceived by the Shaytaan...
Then whispered to both of them the Shaitaan to make apparent to both of them what was concealed from both of them of their shame. And he said, "(Did) not forbid you both your Lord from this tree except that you two become Angels or you two become of the immortals."
if being an Angel is an status , you can become one, but if Angels were created then you cant became one ....
1850
And when We said to the Angels, "Prostrate to Adam," so they prostrated except Iblis. (He) was of the jinn, and he rebelled against the Command (of) his Lord. Will you then take him and his offspring (as) protectors other than Me, while they (are) to you enemies? Wretched for the wrongdoers (is) the exchange.like Iblis he was from the Jinn
May Allah guide us to straight path
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351
praise is to Allah, Creator of the heavens and the earth, made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.] is active participle so it does not mean "made" but "maker".
1588
Pickthall 1588 Strain not thine eyes toward that which We cause some wedded pairs among them to enjoy, and be not grieved on their account, and lower thy wing (in tenderness) for the believers.
So if "janaha" means wing then as per Pickthall our prophet had wings too. Can we trust traditional translations?
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] جَاعِلِ is active participle so it does not mean "made" but "maker".
1588 لَا تَمُدَّنَّ عَيۡنَيۡكَ إِلَىٰ مَا مَتَّعۡنَا بِهِۦۤ أَزۡوَٲجً۬ا مِّنۡهُمۡ وَلَا تَحۡزَنۡ عَلَيۡہِمۡ وَٱخۡفِضۡ جَنَاحَكَ لِلۡمُؤۡمِنِينَ
Pickthall 1588 Strain not thine eyes toward that which We cause some wedded pairs among them to enjoy, and be not grieved on their account, and lower thy wing (in tenderness) for the believers.
So if "janaha" means wing then as per Pickthall our prophet had wings too. Can we trust traditional translations?
Honestly no since it has many influences from Septuagint Bible & Torah. Salam/Peace and Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you.
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traditional translations all of them are perfect example of laziness and corruption of making things the way political movements wanted from time to time.
although interpreting this way sound more logical two examples are as follows.
351 Praise be to God, Initiator of the heavens and the earth; maker of the controllers as messengers with powers/dimensions in twos, and threes, and fours. He increases in the creation as He wishes. God is able to do all things.
All praise is due to God, the Originator of all Highs and Lows. He appoints His universal forces, having multiple functions e.g. message-bearers. He increases in creation as He wills. Certainly, God has appointed due measure for all things and events.
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Dear All,
Reason I always don?t blame traditional Translators coz I don?t know their intentions but somehow with the will of God they have translated the Quran which benefits a lot having opened the window for non arabs, but everyone has their God gifted knowledge to perceive things and accept in the end?
Yes, I too agree/disagree with Novice and Kawaja partially? It cannot be merely wings in which help a creature to fly and float/glide etc.. But no one can deny that the wing doesn?t mean it as well(ex. 63.. Even in my mother toung or for that matter in English wing gives the meaning of various aspects?needless to explain? Problem here is not in the translation but the way people grasped it.. How do we know that the translators actually meant the wing which is for flying or gliding (had they mentioned then it?s wrong coz they only one meaning)..They could have meant other meanings of the wing.. coz they just said wing.. same as God said in the verse?Isn?t it?..Did God say with explicit dimension for us not to take any other meaning rather than one?? NO.. Or can we conclude by the adjoining word ?Uli? (having or possessing, and lots of meaning).. God Said only one phrase ? what about 2832 (its translated as arm).. 26215 (as wing) 638 Can we translate them as multiple function / dimension.. most probably Not .. at least for me?
So to summarize, the Wing mentioned 351 cannot be 100% considered as a physical wing or as some latest translators say? Both could be possible as per context of the verse.. we can?t seriously deny that Jins who were raised as Angels are given various function for which what type of body is required God knows? They can even come as a human.. we all know human doesn?t have wings? It depends on functions.. But 351 is for the reader to decide with their utmost understanding what meaning of wing suits best?it?s not for any single person to label it with their understanding of the meaning?
Correct me if my comments are away from the reality..
May God guide us with what is right.. -
peace my lovely cute boy jkhan ,
its your right you can fully agree and disagree. but the last post is good coz you are thinking by critical thinking,
dnt wana go in detail WING physical one itself clear lot of things if u wana go that way.
look whats the purpose/importance of WINGS in both aeroplane and bird. to provide a power to them which cause the gravity lock accessible for them, thaty why we say them WINGS. obviously if controllers got PoWERS/WINGS they are beyond human perception.very famous daily sentence works same way when we say
?everything is in my hand? Its mean i got a control on situation by controlling power.GOD Bless you
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@ jk khan,
what is the nature of ANGELS according to you from QURAN..?
what your intake about gabriel/mikaeel? who are they?
what do you think about the "abd" who was with moses in his travel? who was he?
what is the nature of human and jinn accoridng to quran?JKhan i tried to share something with you here if u take ur time like two three Good days for research/study/examine inshAllah u ll find handiful information and then u may also share ur findings or new findings with us. purpose of debates is to share knowledge not that i wanawin claims, so positive approach towards everything is always good.
God bless you
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Examine , , .
And to Allah prostrates whatever is in the heavens and whatever
is on the earth of creatures, and the angels , and they are not arrogant.
(yastakbirna)And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam";
so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was haughty (wa-is'takbara)
and became of the disbelievers.And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and
they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the
command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies
other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers
as an exchange.There appears to be a point of demarcation where Iblees was an angel
when obedient and became Jinn after disobedience.Any thoughts?
peace
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Regarding 351 I have received few private messages to email, asking what is more weight physical wing or other possible meanings.. .. What do you personally think what actually God meant by this verse.. ?
So to answer this.. Honestly God won't give for one word in one sentence double meaning.. One word can have many meanings in Quran.. But one word in one sentence in one occasion can only be one meaning which God intended while he revealed this verse...
Though I said in my previous thread we can't give exact meaning since I don't want to lebell it with my personal understanding... But my weight and belief is only for one meaning which is Physical WING...
When I say so.. It's my duty to be logical and elaborate it to make sense... Needless anyone to accept me.. but give thoughts..Coz this is my belief over any other possible meaning for the word "AJNIHAHI" 351....
Few words in this verse is crucial to conclude it... "Al-Malaika, Rusul, Jaa'il... (Angels, Messengers, make/place) respectively..Word Jaa'il (230, 2124, 355, 188, 287) are never meant as a new creation or making.. But it's meaning is to make or place on something which is already been created as an additional support... Or to keep prevelance something... Don't get distracted by 230 thinking a new creation but it's meant for khalifa not for human.
God says we make /place Al-malaika (The Angels) Messengers...
We clearly know that All Angels are not Messengers as per QURAN.. (take the criteria for belief..- 2285 GOD, ANGELS, HIS BOOKS, HIS MESSENGERS, One of those is Angels and not Angel messengers..but simply Angels..) Especially the Angel messengers are those who are placed with message or a task to this world.. Ex. The one who brought the Torah, or the one/s who brought the food to Mary, or those who come to take our lives, or who record our deeds... Etc.. They are messengers either with message or task entrusted..
But not all Angels are messengers..
For such angel Messengers Allah makes/place Wings... Allah didn't say in the verse God makes / place the Angles Wings... But God added another word which is Messengers.. So actually to whome Allah make / place Wing/s are to His angels who are assigned as Messengers.. Depending on their task the number of wings may wary..as it is mentioned Two or three or four. But it was not how Angels(actual Jins) are CREATED with.. . What we we have to drag by this verse is that these wings are not permanent.. But only as long as they are designated for their task as Messenger... On other times, they will remain in their status of Malaika being created as Jins on whatever form they are created... Wings are only task oriented and not standard for angels..One may ponder Now.. Explanations okay but why I need to stick ajnihahi only as Wing IN this verse.. With all explanation of the above ajnihahi would suit as power...but rest of the seven occasions(638, 1588, 1724, 2022, 26215 & 2832) of this particular word doesn't match with Power but only with either wing or hand or side hand is most appropriate.. These three meanings are not away from the basic meaning of wing.. But power or other meaning won't suit the word structure..
Some say in verse 1850 iblees was not angel but he was a Jin.. And angels are entirely different creatures.. No.. Actually in verse 1850 iblees was an Angel among all. Those angels who were ordered by God to sujud Adam.. The word "Kaana" is giving multiple meanings... But usually in 1850 it is used as Iblees was of the Jin...but it may give bit odd meaning as per English.. But kaana here suits much with 'became ' Iblees(He) became of the Jin, disobeyed the command of his Lord... In fact iblees and all angels were Jins while this incident took place.. But coz of the protest raised by iblees He became just of those Jins and also went astray...
It's like simple Example.. Once the policeman breached the rules of being a police He became a civilian or normal human being.. Yes as long as the police stick to the rules he was a police but lost it with the violation... But all police are human regardless of they being police... Using here He WAS a civilian is quite odd rather than using BECAME... He became a civilian from police...So these Jins are of various types.. ((normal Jins, believers disbelievers, Satan(decendants of iblees), Angels, Angels Messengers, Immortals. )) but they all one CREATURE created by flame...
So Humans and Jins are all God created to deserve His Kingdom and rest are created for the support of both human and Jins...
